Let me grab 2 old blog-posts I made back in 2010 about a cash shop in TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=636

Noo, I was wrong, ppl bashed me for posting this, and even EnMasse made an official statement about NOT ADDING a cash shop to TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=638

It's always funny to see that I'm right 2 years later, when we're not even half a year after TERA's release... Any (MMO) publisher using Digital Rivers is gonna use cash shop / micro payments....

Originally posted by Reizla

Let me grab 2 old blog-posts I made back in 2010 about a cash shop in TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=636

Noo, I was wrong, ppl bashed me for posting this, and even EnMasse made an official statement about NOT ADDING a cash shop to TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=638

It's always funny to see that I'm right 2 years later, when we're not even half a year after TERA's release... Any (MMO) publisher using Digital Rivers is gonna use cash shop / micro payments....

ER...that 2nd link you posted, has the following statements clearly in it (despite the title/contradictory statements)

"TERA will have paid services, which could include character transfer, name change and gender change. We do not have a complete list of these services yet, but we will let you know as we confirm them - those services will likely be available inside the game.

There may be a point in time of TERA's lifecycle that we offer "vanity item" sales, pets, and other items that players have enjoyed in other AAA+ titles."

So these both point to what was actually delivered.

I think they have a different defintion between what they consider to be a "cash shop" and what they term as a microtransaction payment model.

Hence their comment about requiring major changes to support microtransactions, meaning changing the game mechanics to strongly encourage players to purchase from the cash shop via items of power or faster leveling.

So in their mind, having an in game store does not equate to a microtransaction payment model, even though both use a shop to sell additional items to their customers.

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Praetalus

I can't explain to you how "people" are ok with cash shops, but I can't explain to you why I'm ok with it. I keep hearing people bitch about sub games with cash shops speaking as if you NEED something from the shop. The fact is... you don't. You don't NEED additional clothing. You don't NEED to spend a dime in a cash shop. 

 

It's starting to sound to me that the issue is some people want items from the shop but can't afford to pay for the sub and the items they want from the shop. If this is the case, that's not anyone's problem but your own. Word Harder, get another job, make more money.. [mod edit[]

 

If the above doesn't apply to you, then I don't see why a completely option cash shop in a game would bother you. It's optional. It's as bad as complaining about different subscription options and prices. 

It doesent have anything to do with anything you just said. All you managed to do was insult people. whats pissing people off is not only to people have to pay for for game its self, they have to pay a sub fee to gain access to the game they just paid for.

 

With that subscription fee, people SHOULD be able to have access to everything the game has to offer. But with the addition of cash shops, there removing the option for those that pay a sub fee to get ALL the game has to offer. And that, no mater your reasoing for it is not right. If i pay a sub fee then i should be able to have access to EVERYTHING in game.

 

Adding mico transactions for items one may want in a subscription based game is unethical and underhanded. If there is a costume hat or pet that i want, dont make it a cash shop only item. Let those that dont want to buy from the shop have the option of finding it ingame. let those that want to work for it do so.

Come on, really?

 

Here's the thing. The cash shop is to appease the LARGER crowd of casual gamers. There are more casual gamers that hardcore content locust. That's it. End of story. 

 

I'll explain. Casual players don't play a whole lot. I play about 6 hours a week if I'm luckly. Casual gamers also tend to have more money [mod edit]. Anyway, since we have money, but not a lot of time, we don't mind buying items that look cool. As, otherwise it would take us forever to get into the raids and gear grinds that give simular "LOOKING" gear. 

 

So don't give me that, I deserve all the game has to offer bullshit. Just because you WANT something doesn't mean you need it. If it's a cash shop only item, oh well. It doesn't really affect the game in anyway. Now, I would get your argument if they started to offer pay dungeons and real content. 

 

Everything in the cash shop is additional shit you didn't pay for yet. Think of them as tiny lil non function expansion packs. 

Would it bother you if they added cash shop items to the game for those of us that dont want to pay more then we feel we should? if we bought the game and pay a monthly sub shouldent we get the right to access to everything in the game?

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Reizla

Let me grab 2 old blog-posts I made back in 2010 about a cash shop in TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=636

Noo, I was wrong, ppl bashed me for posting this, and even EnMasse made an official statement about NOT ADDING a cash shop to TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=638

It's always funny to see that I'm right 2 years later, when we're not even half a year after TERA's release... Any (MMO) publisher using Digital Rivers is gonna use cash shop / micro payments....

ER...that 2nd link you posted, has the following statements clearly in it (despite the title/contradictory statements)

"TERA will have paid services, which could include character transfer, name change and gender change. We do not have a complete list of these services yet, but we will let you know as we confirm them - those services will likely be available inside the game.

There may be a point in time of TERA's lifecycle that we offer "vanity item" sales, pets, and other items that players have enjoyed in other AAA+ titles."

So these both point to what was actually delivered.

I think they have a different defintion between what they consider to be a "cash shop" and what they term as a microtransaction payment model.

Hence their comment about requiring major changes to support microtransactions, meaning changing the game mechanics to strongly encourage players to purchase from the cash shop via items of power or faster leveling.

So in their mind, having an in game store does not equate to a microtransaction payment model, even though both use a shop to sell additional items to their customers.

i dont understand what the differance is? If im missing something please let me know but imo there is no differeance.

If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue.  If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.

The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue.  It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on.  I don't have to buy anything.  It's a simple matter of choice.

Hmm, so long as the cash shop only offers fluff goods and nothing more, I'm ok with it. At that point it'll either have limited or no effect on playing the game.

Originally posted by Arletta

If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue.  If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.

The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue.  It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on.  I don't have to buy anything.  It's a simple matter of choice.

Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.

Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

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Originally posted by kantseeme

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Originally posted by Reas43  

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I dont understand why they cant seem to make hands the right size... everything else seems to be the right proportions. Why not the damn hands.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say because it's not a human...

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Arletta

If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue.  If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.

The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue.  It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on.  I don't have to buy anything.  It's a simple matter of choice.

Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.

 

Let those that want to be lazy shits get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

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Originally posted by kantseeme

 

 

Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

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Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.

Originally posted by GrumpyCharr

Equating selling something with greed is like saying that everybody that eats is a glutton.  

Seriously? By that analogy, then nothing can be considered greed. You do realize this, right? I'm sure the folks on wallstreet would've loved to get away with that line of reasoning, though.

• You want a quality game? You need to hire quality people.  
• You want quality people? You must pay them well.  
• You want to pay them well? You must generate revenue.  
• You want to generate revenue? You must give players the opportunity to spend money.

Here's some fun facts for you. From someone working in the industry:

 

1- MMOs have proven to be profitable with every business model. Subscription, free-to-play, and buy-to-play. There has been absolutely NO proof of a game that has needed to employ both to be profitable. Not a single game. The closest thing we have to this is Turbine, which gives you the option of either subscribing (for full access to content), or going f2p.

 

2- When a game double dips with their payment model (and this is double-dipping), the artists don't see a dime for it. Artist's rates don't fluctuate based on business models. They are a constant. All that extra profit goes straight to the top. Whether or not I can afford a sandwich each day depends on whether or not there is a project (a game) needing to be made. Not on how many titles, mini-pets, etc. are sold in the cash shop. All of those things are done by staff, when they have nothing else to do (busywork).

 

3- The average rate of game devs is actually going down. Not up. This is a fun little issue I've been having to deal w/ personally, and is one of the reasons I find myself taking less and less gigs in the gaming industry. Studios are getting cheaper, and projects are trying to get done for less and less money (for the most part). Many studios are also exploiting students more and more, or outsourcing to try and cut costs.

 

(ask yourself this: If devs are getting paid less, then why are your games steadily getting more and more expensive?) just something to think about.

 

The issue is ETHICAL cash shops.  Some games in the past failed miserably at this. The reality is that cash shops are here to stay, and this is fine with the majority of gamers as long as they are done ethically.  

Of course It is an ethics issue. What do you think greed is? It's a problem of ethics.

Here's what's happening: Nobody will be launching MMO's without cash shops except a smaller indie compnay, which probably won't last anyway since their playerbase will turn on a dime the moment they don't recieve AAA quality.  

Originally posted by strangepower

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Originally posted by kantseeme

Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

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Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.

Truth^

People get rich by being good at making money, investing, and hanging on to the money they already have.

There will always be the paris hilton's of the world, but those aren't the people who getting wealthy, those are the ones who are draining someone else's hard work.

Originally posted by Reas43

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Arletta

If it's items that have no clear advantage other than cosmetic then I don't really see an issue.  If it becomes that the items in the cash shop give an advantage over the sub alone then I'll join whatever picket line is going on, since I'm a newcomer to Tera.

The way I figure it and know it to be the team that makes items for the cash shop won't be taken from the team that maintains the game, so therefore have no issue.  It's up to other ppl what they want to spend their money on.  I don't have to buy anything.  It's a simple matter of choice.

Well i like to have cosmetic items just as much as the next guy so i do see a problem with it. Has nothing to do with taking people off a team to make this or that and the other. It has to do with giving me the same opportunity to gain items being sold in the cahs shop in game.

 

Let those that want to be lazy shits get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

 

I'm going to quote a forum user. You might recognize him: "The level of entitlement on these forums is staggering."

Im flattered that you chose to use a quote on mine to try and belittle the situation. The fact remaines that I spent money to own the game. Then i spent money to play the game.

I shouldent have to yet again spend more money to get items from the game i spent money to get and now spent money to play. Who cares if there fluff items or not. thats not the point.

The point is we should be givin access to ALL of these items IF were paying a monthly sub. So yes if i bought a game i should be entitled to the opportunity to gain these items without the use of a cash shop.

Can we all atleast agree that items sold in a cash shop should also be made available to those in game that do not wish to use said cash shop?

Originally posted by kantseeme

Can we all atleast agree that items sold in a cash shop should also be made available to those in game that do not wish to use said cash shop?

I was thinking the same thing.  If they want to keep the CS and not make it look like a money grab just add in game versions.  They could be account bound and a good in game currency sink.

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Originally posted by kantseeme

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Originally posted by strangepower  

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Originally posted by kantseeme     Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

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    Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.

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[mod edit]

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I know what you were inferring... so if one works nine hours a day, plus commute, five days a week... get's home in the evening...takes care of RL obligations:

THEN chooses to fire up the game and buy with their earned income cosmetic items instead of grinding them out until the wee hours of the morning before having to go to work again is a "lazy shit"?

Help me understand this, how do you not equate time for money?

It's not being "lazy shits" in game, its a case of not having the extended amount of free time to blow.

So as you would have it hard working individuals would actually be penalized and you would undermine the additional revenue for the development house.

I am okay with cash shops in any game. I am responsible for my money. I can spend it how I want to. If I want to buy items then I can do so.

I do not like to see lottery items, enchanting success items, or gear sets that give stat increases in those cash shops.

Cosmetic items, mounts, even extra experience items do not bother me much provided the game is not a year long grind without the cash shop item, but a 30 day grind with the cash shop item.

Many free to play games revolve around the sale of these items to make up for not having sub fees.

I do not like seeing inventory and bank or warehouse items sold in cash shops if the game has a sub. That seems like an unfair cash grab in my opinion.

Originally posted by strangepower

 

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Originally posted by kantseeme

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Originally posted by strangepower  

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Originally posted by kantseeme     Let those that want to [mod edit] get there cosmetic gear or mounts or w/e they want from the cash shops. But atleast give people the choice to find those items in game without the cash shop option.

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    Here in the real world individuals that have disposable income are not "lazy shits", quite the opposite.

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[mod edit]

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I know what you were inferring... so if one works nine hours a day, plus commute, five days a week... get's home in the evening...takes care of RL obligations:

THEN chooses to fire up the game and buy with their earned income cosmetic items instead of grinding them out until the wee hours of the morning before having to go to work again is a "lazy shit"?

Help me understand this, how do you not equate time for money?

It's not being "lazy shits" in game, its a case of not having the extended amount of free time to blow.

So as you would have it hard working individuals would actually be penalized and you would undermine the additional revenue for the development house.

That makes no sence what so ever in the context of whats being talked about here. Time is money yes when your at work. not while your gaming. Unless your getting paid for gaming then good on ya.

And if your working 9 hours a day, plus communte, five days a week plus RL obligations, perhaps MMOs arent what you should be playing. Perhaps a nice Console RPG that can be turned off and restarted w/ you need. Or an CO-OP FPS like Halo or Black Ops. Get in, get some quick game play in then off to bed.

MMOs are time sicks of the worst kind yet you think you should be able to get everything in the allotted time frame your life dictates you have to game. And its one of many reasons of whats is killing the genre. COs are slowly changing MMOs into lobby co-op single player games and slapping an MMO tag on them.

[mod edit] Hard working individuals arent penalized for anything. They just dont have as much time to do things that someone that might not be working as hard as that individual does. Doesent mean that person cant have things. It means it will just take them longer to get. Will it bother you that someone got something ingame before you did?

These cash shops are just another way for them to squeeze even more money out of the consumer and its so common place now a days that we as consumers are starting to think its buissness as usual.  Its a shame WE have allowed it to get this out of hand.

WE = Consumers

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Reizla

Let me grab 2 old blog-posts I made back in 2010 about a cash shop in TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=636

Noo, I was wrong, ppl bashed me for posting this, and even EnMasse made an official statement about NOT ADDING a cash shop to TERA:

http://www.pagesfromsages.com/?action=showentry&entry=638

It's always funny to see that I'm right 2 years later, when we're not even half a year after TERA's release... Any (MMO) publisher using Digital Rivers is gonna use cash shop / micro payments....

ER...that 2nd link you posted, has the following statements clearly in it (despite the title/contradictory statements)

"TERA will have paid services, which could include character transfer, name change and gender change. We do not have a complete list of these services yet, but we will let you know as we confirm them - those services will likely be available inside the game.

There may be a point in time of TERA's lifecycle that we offer "vanity item" sales, pets, and other items that players have enjoyed in other AAA+ titles."

So these both point to what was actually delivered.

I think they have a different defintion between what they consider to be a "cash shop" and what they term as a microtransaction payment model.

Hence their comment about requiring major changes to support microtransactions, meaning changing the game mechanics to strongly encourage players to purchase from the cash shop via items of power or faster leveling.

So in their mind, having an in game store does not equate to a microtransaction payment model, even though both use a shop to sell additional items to their customers.

i dont understand what the differance is? If im missing something please let me know but imo there is no differeance.

 

In a micro transaction title the gameplay is actually designed to be punishing to those who don't partake of the advantages the cash shop offers (could be exp boosters, actual items of power, fast mounts whatever).

While it's possible to skip buying these items, most sane players won't be be easily able to without greatly reducing their enjoyment of the game.  Think of it sort of as extortion.

Contrast that with a cash shop like Tera offers.  It has cosmetic items only, and the entire gameplay is designed without a thought of creating  mechanics that would encourage someone to buy something to improve the efficiency of their gameplay. 

If you never partake of the Tera cash shop you will not be disadvantaged in any way (in fact, you can even pay for your sub with in game gold) while in a title such as ROM or Alloids you won't have a chance (at least in PVP) if you aren't freely spending in the cash shop, because they are designed inherently to require it.

If you still don't see the difference, then I suggest you try both titles and it should clear things up for you.