Let me preface this by saying I'm really enjoying TERA right now. I'm still playing the demo, but after a shaky start, and hour's worth of "Ehhh... I dunno about this...", and a little persistence, I think I'm going to be making the full purchase right about the time the demo expires.

Now that said, yeah... animation lock. It's there and can be annoying, but I'm usually able to work around it. What I don't like is how once you commit to an action (in my case, a spell for my sorc), you can't interrupt it to, for example, dodge. There have been many cases where I've decided that dodging an attack would be worth dumping the MP used in an aborted spell, as long as I could get out of the way of a charge. Sadly, once you've started casting, you're committed and can't do anything else-- including jump-- to interrupt it.

Originally posted by jonrd463

Let me preface this by saying I'm really enjoying TERA right now. I'm still playing the demo, but after a shaky start, and hour's worth of "Ehhh... I dunno about this...", and a little persistence, I think I'm going to be making the full purchase right about the time the demo expires.

Now that said, yeah... animation lock. It's there and can be annoying, but I'm usually able to work around it. What I don't like is how once you commit to an action (in my case, a spell for my sorc), you can't interrupt it to, for example, dodge. There have been many cases where I've decided that dodging an attack would be worth dumping the MP used in an aborted spell, as long as I could get out of the way of a charge. Sadly, once you've started casting, you're committed and can't do anything else-- including jump-- to interrupt it.

You can cancel using backstep or teleport jaunt usually.

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Destai

A game should be fun from the moment you start it. There should not be a portion of the game where you cannot experience the mechanics that make the game enjoyable. I'm sorry, but I feel TERA dropped the ball on this. From what I played of the Guild Wars 2 beta weekends they seem to understand this - you have to make the game fun from the first few moments a player logs in. That's the point you are going to make a sale or not. I can appreciate that TERA is also considering positioning - that's great - but don't inhibit movement or withhold your selling point mechanic, especially on a trial. 

 

A It's arguable.  I personally think GW2 gives you too much too quickly and leaves you twiddling your fingers as you progress in levels.  I'd rather sludge through a few hours of low level combat than be bored for dozens of hours while leveling and having very little to look forward to in character progression.

B)Regardless, it's not important to the success of the game either way.  The most successful games in the industry have god awful boring combat experiences for the first several levels (WoW, LotrO, EQ2, etc) and nobody really cares, because it only lasts a short while.

**TL/DR**

A) What is arguable? that a game should be fun from the moment it starts? or that developers know they have a limited time to catch a players attention and hook them into the game before they lose the consumer?  Neither are a point of argument because both are true.  Developers who are successfull know that they have a small window of time to hook players into their game.  Especially if the game does not offer anything new to the market besides a combat system.

And no TERA doesn't have you sludge through a few hours of low level combat, it provides an entire game of the same combat system and questing system.  The game offers NOTHING new to the market excluding the combat system which for a lot of people is to slow at lower levels to hook them.  ESPECIALLY when combined with the horrible HORRIBLE quest system.

So yes I do agree that character progression is important for most gamers, I do how ever understand the OP's disappointment in this game's combat system at lower levels for ranged classes.  I personally put in 40+ hours of play within TERA and I enjoyed it, I ENJOYED IT!! However I too feel that the animation lock and movement anchoring is way to obvious at lower levels for certain classes and completely agree with the OP as do many many people.

It seems like most people who tried playing Guild Wars 2 like a traditional MMORPG shared your experience with boredum and lack of progression.  I personally have put in nearly 90+ hours so far just in beta and haven't even touched 15% of the game with so much more I want to explore, experience, and do.  Personal character progression is gigantic in Guild Wars 2 and by saying only after a few hours it stops is straight up ignorant it its core term...

B) If you worked within the industry you'd be able to approrpiately answer this which you didn't and I assume you don't.  It is incredibly important to the success of a game because the gamers have changed and evolved as to what they expect from a game.  Those older games you quoted were success of their time but gamers have changed as to what they expect and what they want from their games.  This might not include you but does include the majority of players. 

"Nobody really cares"  You are dead wrong because the majority do care unless it does last for a short time.  Here is why:

A typical gamer has a life outside a game and can play maybe 2-3 hours a day  sooooo if it takes you 3-4 hours just to get off noob island you just spend 1-2 days of your game time trying to figure out if you like the combat system and world.   So in a typical gamers schedule I personal spent 40 hours / 2 thats 20 days of a normal gamers play time.  I reached level 30 as an archer and still couldn't shake the fact that the anchoring and animation locks just couldn't cut it for me. 

Why did I mention this because you said "because it doesn't last long" bull crap... if I have to spend 4-5 days 2-3 hours a day to get where it finally gets enjoyable, its way to long and businesses know this and understand this.  Even though some have found it enjoyable A LOT OF PEOPLE found it somewhat punishing such as the OP, EVEN THOUGH... even though she was anticipating to enjoy the game.

What I find interesting is I enjoyed the game but I found that after my years of playing games free 2 play and pay 2 play I find that in 2012 a game has to offer a lot more for me to justify paying a monthly sub and honestly TERA does not offer enough to justify it.  THough its a good game I can't bring myself to pay a box price + monthly sub.  Its the same old same old with a combat system that is different and needs polish to make it feel more organic.

Sadly Guild wars 2 probably did give the OP a scewed opinion because Guild Wars 2 does provide a more mobile combat system which dodge does matter, because if you don't use your skills appropriately along with timing your dodge appropriately you die.  I see someone posted their "experience" with Guild Wars 2 which actually depicted what a lot of people experienced with, NOT GUILD WARS 2, but Tera.  Exactly what he described was exactly what I experienced myself in TERA. 

So I do agree with the OP and even though she never attacked the game, she merely stated her disappointment and opinion its a little pathetic how so many acted and replied like she personally attacked them and called their moms some nasty name.

Do I prefer Guild Wars 2.. of course!  will I play Tera?  probably when its free to play because it will go free 2 play.

Originally posted by TheTrueKing

 

**TL/DR**

A) What is arguable? that a game should be fun from the moment it starts? or that developers know they have a limited time to catch a players attention and hook them into the game before they lose the consumer?  Neither are a point of argument because both are true.  Developers who are successfull know that they have a small window of time to hook players into their game.  Especially if the game does not offer anything new to the market besides a combat system.

 

I would argue that some people enjoy the unfolding of a game as opposed to the "bam" (no pun intended) I'm having fun NOW" idea.

The discrepancy seems to be how one approaches a new game. Some people most likely want to be having a blast from step one and some people liek being intrigued and buildnig from there.

I would say for some the combat system is a huge deal. Especially if one likes combat. Heck, yesterday I helped my guild leader level and I never got one ounce of xp from it. but I enjoy fighting the BAMS and the simple enjoyment of fighitng was worth it "without rewards" I might add.

I think it's sometimse hard to realize for all of us that people really experience things differently and that oftentimes we can't come to a consensus because we just don't value the same experiences.

The same could be said for other media. Some people like summer movies because they are pretty much fun from the get go. Some enjoy more art house flicks which take time to unfold or even make sense at times.

Havnig said that I am NOT saying Tera is a fine art house flick and other games are summer movies. I am saying that for some, as you say, they want fun immediately and other enjoy easing into it.

The issue with Tera is that it's not a fully thought out game and therefore, if one is on a pve server, one kind of has to find their own fun at cap.

Originally posted by TheTrueKing

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Destai

A game should be fun from the moment you start it. There should not be a portion of the game where you cannot experience the mechanics that make the game enjoyable. I'm sorry, but I feel TERA dropped the ball on this. From what I played of the Guild Wars 2 beta weekends they seem to understand this - you have to make the game fun from the first few moments a player logs in. That's the point you are going to make a sale or not. I can appreciate that TERA is also considering positioning - that's great - but don't inhibit movement or withhold your selling point mechanic, especially on a trial. 

 

A It's arguable.  I personally think GW2 gives you too much too quickly and leaves you twiddling your fingers as you progress in levels.  I'd rather sludge through a few hours of low level combat than be bored for dozens of hours while leveling and having very little to look forward to in character progression.

B)Regardless, it's not important to the success of the game either way.  The most successful games in the industry have god awful boring combat experiences for the first several levels (WoW, LotrO, EQ2, etc) and nobody really cares, because it only lasts a short while.

 

A) What is arguable? that a game should be fun from the moment it starts? or that developers know they have a limited time to catch a players attention and hook them into the game before they lose the consumer?  Neither are a point of argument because both are true.  Developers who are successfull know that they have a small window of time to hook players into their game.  Especially if the game does not offer anything new to the market besides a combat system.

Tera has the best graphics in MMOs at this point in time.  The combat system is unique if nothing else at the beginning, and that easily got me through my first several levels just by itself.  The monster design is top notch, the world design is breathtaking,  the character designs are outstanding, and the customization is outstanding.  That's enough of a hook for most people, and more of a hook than 90% of the games on the market.

And no TERA doesn't have you sludge through a few hours of low level combat, it provides an entire game of the same combat system and questing system.  The game offers NOTHING new to the market excluding the combat system which for a lot of people is to slow at lower levels to hook them.  ESPECIALLY when combined with the horrible HORRIBLE quest system.

Welcome to MMOs.  I'm going to let you in on a secret, they all are the exact same.  GW2's questing system is going to be just as god awful boring w/in a couple months of launch, especially once you've gone through it once.  It's the exact same mechanics wrapped in a shiny thin sheet of vellum and the shine will wear off just as fast as Rift's rifts did.    It's all kill, collection, item usage, escort, defend, etc quests over and over.

So yes I do agree that character progression is important for most gamers, I do how ever understand the OP's disappointment in this game's combat system at lower levels for ranged classes.  I personally put in 40+ hours of play within TERA and I enjoyed it, I ENJOYED IT!! However I too feel that the animation lock and movement anchoring is way to obvious at lower levels for certain classes and completely agree with the OP as do many  many people

Lots of people think its a good idea to throw acid in the face of girls that go to school. I really don't care how many people blather on about it, they're still wrong.  This is an action combat game, and it's designed like an action combat game (ie animation locks, importance on dodging and posiitioning, aiming, movement, etc).  It's not designed like an MMO pretending to be an action combat game w/ strafe skill spam ,autotarget, and a tacked on dodge system.

It seems like most people who tried playing Guild Wars 2 like a traditional MMORPG shared your experience with boredum and lack of progression.  I personally have put in nearly 90+ hours so far just in beta and haven't even touched 15% of the game with so much more I want to explore, experience, and do.  Personal character progression is gigantic in Guild Wars 2 and by saying only after a few hours it stops is straight up ignorant it its core term...

I didn't say it stops.  I said it slows down to a crawl.   Within a few hours of the game you've unlocked the majority of your weapon skills and you focus mainly on traits.  As an veteran gamer, I'm not the kind of guy that needs everything now.  I'd rather watch my character grow into his power at an even rate that lets me actually learn and get comfortable with my class than have 3 dozen different skill combinations thrown at me in the first 2 hours of the game.  

B) If you worked within the industry you'd be able to approrpiately answer this which you didn't and I assume you don't.  It is incredibly important to the success of a game because the gamers have changed and evolved as to what they expect from a game.  Those older games you quoted were success of their time but gamers have changed as to what they expect and what they want from their games.  This might not include you but does include the majority of players.

Not really.  Nobody gave two shits about SWTOR or Rift combat starting out slow.  Nobody gives two shits about TSW combat starting out slow(although they do care about the actual combat mechanics being bad).  A slow start doesn't mean jack as long as the game ramps it up at an appreciable rate.

I'm also at a complete loss as to have I'd need to be in the industry to recognize the most successful MMOs

"Nobody really cares"  You are dead wrong because the majority do care unless it does last for a short time.  Here is why:

A typical gamer has a life outside a game and can play maybe 2-3 hours a day  sooooo if it takes you 3-4 hours just to get off noob island you just spend 1-2 days of your game time trying to figure out if you like the combat system and world.   So in a typical gamers schedule I personal spent 40 hours / 2 thats 20 days of a normal gamers play time.  I reached level 30 as an archer and still couldn't shake the fact that the anchoring and animation locks just couldn't cut it for me. 

A typical gamer doesn't play MMOs.  The average MMO gamer it quite aware how low level combat works in MMOs, and doesn't come to silly decisions like the entire combat system sucks in the first 2 hours.  Besides, Tera gives you a chance to screw around w/ a level 20 character in the Prologue so you can get a taste of mid level combat.  So you don't have to wait any time at all.

 

Why did I mention this because you said "because it doesn't last long" bull crap... if I have to spend 4-5 days 2-3 hours a day to get where it finally gets enjoyable

 It doesn't take that long.  

Sadly Guild wars 2 probably did give the OP a scewed opinion because Guild Wars 2 does provide a more mobile combat system which dodge does matter, because if you don't use your skills appropriately along with timing your dodge appropriately you die.  

That was not my experience with GW.  Dodge was useful, but is was quite apparent is was a tacked on accessory instead of something the combat was built around.  Furthermore, mobility (and positioning) in GW2 is not nearly as important as mobility in Tera, even if it starts out with more of it.  

at its simplest I believe this is what the OP is talking about, which effects nearly all of the combat:

anchored and animation locked just a few seconds which displays the stop go stop go.

Originally posted by altas

Originally posted by Sovrath

Not every game has to be the same. This is somethign that has always baffled me about mmo players. They want their favorite systems to propogate throughout every game as opposed to saying "oh, this is how it's done here, ok now let's see what I can do with what I have at my disposal.

Aye! Just because we can't accept Tera crap combat, doesnt meant we wanted old school wow-tab-targeting system. I just dont like combat where I have to swing-stop moving- swords up in the air-bend over-show ass to mobs- let them lick my butt-press space for combo-stop moving-high five-salute-oh, hello there neighbour, how are you-bend over-show ass again- dodge(hell, yeah!)-move-swing... and again. Bored. 

Originally posted by nationalcity

Originally posted by altas

Originally posted by Sovrath

Not every game has to be the same. This is somethign that has always baffled me about mmo players. They want their favorite systems to propogate throughout every game as opposed to saying "oh, this is how it's done here, ok now let's see what I can do with what I have at my disposal.

Aye! Just because we can't accept Tera crap combat, doesnt meant we wanted old school wow-tab-targeting system. I just dont like combat where I have to swing-stop moving- swords up in the air-bend over-show ass to mobs- let them lick my butt-press space for combo-stop moving-high five-salute-oh, hello there neighbour, how are you-bend over-show ass again- dodge(hell, yeah!)-move-swing... and again. Bored. 

Even though the combat in both games is pretty similar considering your dodgeing basically the whole time or attempting too....But yet Tera's is crap and GW2 it's OMGWTFBBQ right lol......

Originally posted by nationalcity

Originally posted by nationalcity

Originally posted by altas

Originally posted by Sovrath

Not every game has to be the same. This is somethign that has always baffled me about mmo players. They want their favorite systems to propogate throughout every game as opposed to saying "oh, this is how it's done here, ok now let's see what I can do with what I have at my disposal.

Aye! Just because we can't accept Tera crap combat, doesnt meant we wanted old school wow-tab-targeting system. I just dont like combat where I have to swing-stop moving- swords up in the air-bend over-show ass to mobs- let them lick my butt-press space for combo-stop moving-high five-salute-oh, hello there neighbour, how are you-bend over-show ass again- dodge(hell, yeah!)-move-swing... and again. Bored. 

Even though the combat in both games is pretty similar considering your dodgeing basically the whole time or attempting too....But yet Tera's is crap and GW2 it's OMGWTFBBQ right lol......

 

 

 

It seems this persons comment has really upset you. you replied 2 times with two different posts and have rewrote this like 4-5 times within the last few minutes...  Might want to stop and breath a second maybe calm down a little.

At first, I hated it with a passion. I tried the beta, did not like the combat and gave up. For some reason I decided to give it another shot and stick it out.

Wow, once you get used to the combat and get a feel for how its supposed to play you really learn to love it. I mean the animation locks make sense, because they force you to have to prepare you attacks and time them right. If you feel a big attack coming you cant use your big long attack because you have to be prepared to move.

Also the newbie area gives the impression the game is way to easy. But once you are off the island it gets a lot more fun and challenging.

Seriously people get over it, most action combat games have animation locks or root of some kind. Its what give them their skill requirement and diffcultyness because every thing you do have real consquence of you been left completely over. If you can't deal with it don't play action combat games, simple as that. This is like saying remove root animation from monster hunter because we don't want to learn how to fight the monsteres, we just want to buttom mash it to death...... ya defeat the whole purpose of the damn game -.-

Originally posted by Draemos

Originally posted by Destai

A game should be fun from the moment you start it. There should not be a portion of the game where you cannot experience the mechanics that make the game enjoyable. I'm sorry, but I feel TERA dropped the ball on this. From what I played of the Guild Wars 2 beta weekends they seem to understand this - you have to make the game fun from the first few moments a player logs in. That's the point you are going to make a sale or not. I can appreciate that TERA is also considering positioning - that's great - but don't inhibit movement or withhold your selling point mechanic, especially on a trial. 

 

It's arguable.  I personally think GW2 gives you too much too quickly and leaves you twiddling your fingers as you progress in levels.  I'd rather sludge through a few hours of low level combat than be bored for dozens of hours while leveling and having very little to look forward to in character progression.

Regardless, it's not important to the success of the game either way.  The most successful games in the industry have god awful boring combat experiences for the first several levels (WoW, LotrO, EQ2, etc) and nobody really cares, because it only lasts a short while.

Good point. After playing many games with that model, I'm just ready for something new. I'm ready for a game where the development is seeing and enjoying the game, rather than waiting til level X when my character finally matures. I look at it this way. Why wait for so many levels, why play for so long if the game isn't enjoyable until you've reached max level? I'm sure TERA has some great features, but after LoTRO I can't play a game with a sluggish combat. I don't want to wait to enjoy a game. I want to dive in, immerse myself in the fantasy and have some fun. I hope TERA does well, it has a good foundation and a great art style. Sadly, I am sitting this one out. Cheers!

Oh wow really?  Yeah that is pretty lame.  When I think of "ACTION COMBAT" the thing that comes to mind immediately is GunZ.  That is action... bouncing off walls while chaining animation cancels to do special moves and block bullets with swords...  or trying to take out people who do that with perfect aim and less mobility while using guns.

Before that I used to play Doom 3 (some quake), the old doom games etc and considered them action.  Bunnyhopping across the map in .5 seconds and blowing someones face off the second they come through a door, then rocket jumping 100 ft in the air to enter the stair case they ran in from the top instead of the bottom after them.

If you are trying to call stuff like that "button mashing" you have no clue what you are talking about.  Even in 2d fighting games which are notorious for button mashing, you can't do crap against someone who actually knows what they are doing that way.  Real Action Combat takes rocket fast reflexes and skill...  It's just not very popular because many people simply lack the ability to do it very well even with lots of practice.

I like dark souls, it's combat is ok thanks to all the paper rock scissors effects.  But it doesn't go around advertising itself as "Action Combat!!!".  Is this game even as complex as dark souls or no since most MMOs are made to run with like 100 ping..?

There is no animation lock on skills just you dont understand some skills are ani locked unless you choose to unlock their potential  with glyphs.

It is also likely you were using a base skill which would be fixed as its a charge skill which needs at least a level 2 form to have any movement.

All games have user preferences but stating falsehoods purley because you dont know the dynamics is a bit silly.

Originally posted by Kriminal99

Oh wow really?  Yeah that is pretty lame.  When I think of "ACTION COMBAT" the thing that comes to mind immediately is GunZ.  That is action... bouncing off walls while chaining animation cancels to do special moves and block bullets with swords...  or trying to take out people who do that with perfect aim and less mobility while using guns.

 

Before that I used to play Doom 3 (some quake), the old doom games etc and considered them action.  Bunnyhopping across the map in .5 seconds and blowing someones face off the second they come through a door, then rocket jumping 100 ft in the air to enter the stair case they ran in from the top instead of the bottom after them.

 

If you are trying to call stuff like that "button mashing" you have no clue what you are talking about.  Even in 2d fighting games which are notorious for button mashing, you can't do crap against someone who actually knows what they are doing that way.  Real Action Combat takes rocket fast reflexes and skill...  It's just not very popular because many people simply lack the ability to do it very well even with lots of practice.

 

I like dark souls, it's combat is ok thanks to all the paper rock scissors effects.  But it doesn't go around advertising itself as "Action Combat!!!".  Is this game even as complex as dark souls or no since most MMOs are made to run with like 100 ping..?

You understand how much freaken lag there would be if its like Gunz? Gunz worked because it was a small enviroment with limited amount of people. With the current internet (which is sorry not everyone can afford fucking high speed internet) its impossible to make a game of that action combat in an open mmorpgs world. Also those are those are FPS, fps is not action combat there is a difference.