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MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 08/28/12)  | Pub:NCSoft
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Guild Wars 2 Videos: Game Face: First Impressions of GW2 (10:10)

Pokket's first impressions of the GW2 beta. Things she likes, thinks needs improvements, and things she didn't like about the game. BG Footage http://www.twitch.tv/pokket/b/316963252 MMORPG http://www.mmorpg.com/ Pokket's Twitter https://twitter.com/Pokketsays Pokket's Stream http://twitch.tv/pokket Music http://machinimasound.com/2010/02/depravity/

Pokket's first impressions of the GW2 beta. Things she likes, thinks needs improvements, and things she didn't like about the game. BG Footage http://www.twitch.tv/pokket/b/316963252 MMORPG http://www.mmorpg.com/ Pokket's Twitter https://twitter.com/Pokketsays Pokket's Stream http://twitch.tv/pokket Music http://machinimasound.com/2010/02/depravity/
Duration: 10:10
Views: 8,196  74 comments
Game: Guild Wars 2
Direct Link: http://youtu.be/xx5OTz2JYzg
View More Guild Wars 2 Videos...
Nethermancer writes:

Only thing i personally disagree with you is pvp rewards

why cant you just pvp for fun?

I never understood the crowd that NEEDS rewards to pvp or they wont bother.

Thu May 03 2012 11:03AM Report
Jimmydean writes:

Hmm this game's PVP has a long ways to go. No names in WvW? No rewards? What's the point?  PVP is fun. PVP with rewards is more fun. 

If you are going to have a game without rewards, though, you should at least have names so that you can separate yourself from the other 100 people auto attacking the keep wall. I wouldn't pre-purchase this game in it's current state, I hold hope though that Anet cleans it up.

Thu May 03 2012 11:24AM Report
Bolongo writes:

About assaulting the doors in WvW:

You're supposed to use siege engines, not your auto-attack...

Of course, in the beta ppl aren't high level yet and don't have the cash to shell out for the siege weaponry. Maybe Arenanet should think about giving easier access to the catapults and what not for the next beta event, just so people get a chance to try it.

Thu May 03 2012 11:36AM Report
whisperwynd writes: More rewards...another detrimental effect of the WoW generation. Easier gate downing? So steamrolling through all the castles and forts would make it more enjoyable? Riiight. Need to have some difficulty. Thu May 03 2012 11:38AM Report
Bolongo writes:

Melee not having a place in WvW:

There are no melee classes in GW2... Everyone has a ranged weapon. Unless they went straight to WvW at lvl 1 before getting one, of course...

Thu May 03 2012 11:39AM Report
ButeoRegalis writes:

Low rewards in WvW might be related to your REAL level, as WvW loot scales to you.

Melee useless in sieges -- Well, yea, it's been that way since the middle ages. :D Difference is that in GW2 your warrior can switch to his rifle and join the ranged fun!

Once you actually break in melee should shine. According to ANet melee outdamages ranged. Maybe that's too subtle to be noticable.

Thu May 03 2012 11:45AM Report
GongStar writes: This game reminds so much of Warhammer, it's crazy. Thu May 03 2012 11:55AM Report
Jetrpg writes:

Should do the DAOC pvp name fix.

Names are not shown above head or on selected target, but on damage numbers they are... so you get to know whos good/bad, but don't get to know it just at eye sight.

 

Beleive me people knew good players/guilds in that game w/o the ability to see names above heads.

Thu May 03 2012 11:58AM Report
Drafell writes:

Maybe ArenaNet could consider adding the ability for players over a certain 'reputation' or skill level to voluntarily show thier names?

 

Thu May 03 2012 12:07PM Report
SteeJanz writes: Is it just me or should people that make a living off game commentary be better informed about the game before giving me their impressions.  Would that have changed her mind on what she didn't like.  I mean if she knew that melee can be just as powerful at range with weapon swapping or that she could receive loot from enemy players killed in WvW, would that change some of the bad.  Or would her thoughts on her personal stories choices during character creation change her postive view of the personal story if she actual experienced how those choices developed in her personal story.   I don't know I guess I expect more from people that try to make a living talking about games then I do posters on a forum.   Thu May 03 2012 12:40PM Report
SteeJanz writes: Is it just me or should people that make a living off game commentary be better informed about the game before giving me their impressions.  Would that have changed her mind on what she didn't like.  I mean if she knew that melee can be just as powerful at range with weapon swapping or that she could receive loot from enemy players killed in WvW, would that change some of the bad.  Or would her thoughts on her personal stories choices during character creation change her postive view of the personal story if she actual experienced how those choices developed in her personal story.   I don't know I guess I expect more from people that try to make a living talking about games then I do posters on a forum.   Thu May 03 2012 12:41PM Report
Jimmydean writes:

Yea because Melee should have to switch to ranged to be usefull. That makes a lot of sense.  "Sure you can play melee, but really you are going to be a ranged DPS anyways unless you want to suck".

Thu May 03 2012 1:29PM Report
Shealladh writes:

I'm amazed, I finally found a website worse than MMORPG, and they call it twitch.tv.

 

Talk about giving me twitches!

 

When are they ever going to learn, our monitors' are "Wide" not turned on their sides and like thin straws and all squeezed into their frameset. FFS....

Thu May 03 2012 1:32PM Report
SnootMaster writes:

This game is easily on its way to loserville and following the failed content and playstyle of many others before it is deathnote.  The reviewer does a good job at covering certain aspects of the game and I enjoy following her reviews, but there is little her review can do to really make this game sound and look entertaining.   Classic point-and-click combat is going the way of the dragon (no pun intended) and GW2 really doesn't bring much to the table that we haven't seen and haven't missed before.  I'm calling raid wipe on GW2 and looking forward to other games i.e TSL, Tera and ESO.

Fantastic review as usual Pokket!

Thu May 03 2012 1:51PM Report
jfz133 writes:

It's not about wanting rewards vs pvp'ing for fun.

It's about needing money to repair gear and purchase siege weapons and keep upgrades, which are pretty much required if you want to win anything, especially when you are the underdog realm. You can complete even less events because you don't have the numbers, so you get less coin, can't upgrade your keeps, so you can't successfully defend or attack anything.

Thu May 03 2012 1:58PM Report
Tuchaka writes:

agree with her points about the pvp , the top pvp guilds really do have respect for each other and they want each other in games because otherwise what are they gonna do .....just beat up on players of a lesser challenge ? 

 So knowing each other names gives a chance for that

Thu May 03 2012 2:04PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@Jimmydean

I think your thinking is flawed.  Your assuming your melee or ranged and that you can't be both.  That's the difference in GW2, your not stuck in one or the other.  Why shouldn't a warrior be as good with a bow as they are with an axe.  A warrior is a warrior.  Just because you are used to game where a warrior with a bow is gimped, doesn't mean that you have to be blind to the possibility that as a warrior you can donkey stomp someone with your sword or your bow.   It's your choice.  With the fact that you can swap while in combat helps you switch instantly to what will do the best job.  Read up on it you might find something that, not only makes more sense then what your used to but actually more fun as well.

 

Thu May 03 2012 2:30PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@SnootMaster

Ignorance truly is bliss.

Thu May 03 2012 2:36PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@ jfz133

That may be a legitmate point.  I will have to check that out in the next BWE.  It would suck if didn't get enough currency to just play.  The only point I would make is that if you notice in the video where they captured the keep she got bronze participation which is less than silver and gold participation.  She would have got more xp, karma, and gold if she got gold or silver.  It may be that she didn't understand that just skill spamming the door doesn't grant you much more than the lowest participation.  Plus, you can get currency looting all the dead bodies.  Again, worth attacking more than just the door.   

Thu May 03 2012 2:41PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@Exterminos

The only problem with that is that WvW is on a rotation every two weeks so that you compete compariable servers.  Since two of the worlds lose they will not be competing against the winning server the next time.  The winning servers will be competing against other winning servers so it will be switching.

Plus Anet is pushing server pride over guild pride or player pride.  They want you to have enough pride in your world that you will defend it.   The top guilds in your world will have presitige and the they will be able to fly their banners at the keeps so the other worlds will recognize the guild emblem of the top guilds they are up against anyway.  Not quite the personal level.  I can understand what you are saying though.  It is nice to recognize players.  However, I tend to remember the dirt bags more.  And to tell the truth, I would stop what I was doing to go after them. 

Thu May 03 2012 2:46PM Report
aslan132 writes:

Its Pokkets comments about names in WvW that are exactly the reason Anet chose not to display them. And if anyone was wondering, your guilds names are still displayed. Thats more than enough to know who is killing you, and the top guilds will still hold respect and have rivalries. Seeking out and harassing the same player over and over either because they are good and you want to drop them down a peg or two, or because they are bad and you want to exploit it for your own gains. Both are reason there will never be names shown in WvW. You want to prove something and gain rank, thats what sPVP is for. Building a community and taking on objectives that are bigger than just you or your team, thats what WvW is for. I applaude Anet for taking a stand against gank fests and harassment on this, and i hope all new MMOs learn from it.

Thu May 03 2012 3:40PM Report
aslan132 writes:

On the melee comments, I know its been said over and over, but clearly people arent listening. All classes are melee and all classes are ranged. When you say melee has no place in WvW you are ignorant. There is no such thing as melee or ranged only. I played an elementalist just like Pokket did and im here to tell you, if you only stayed ranged and AoE all the time, you were not being as effective as you could be. The dagger abiloities in particular were amazing once you broke down the door and attacked guards and keep lords. Things that debuffed and made them take more damage (vulnerability) and skills that both damaged foes and healed allies at the same time (cone of cold). All while being up close and personal and melee does out damage ranged. To be the most effective you have to be both. AoE when sieging or defending in the early phases on the walls or doors, then melee when you break in and start attacking the guards and lords. Trust me, your potential will increase.

Thu May 03 2012 3:47PM Report
Unlight writes:

I didn't bother watching the vid once I saw that it was the lovely and talentless Pokket involved.  I can get my fill of ill-informed pablum from the forums.

Thu May 03 2012 4:10PM Report
dndhatcher writes:

Other guilds were taking out doors in under 30 seconds using multiple siege weapons (like 3 rams).  

 

There is no melee class in GW2.  All classes have ranged weapons.  Every class should slot at least one ranged weapon in WvW.

 

 

Thu May 03 2012 4:45PM Report
Naral writes:

I am excited for this game, but everyone demonizes rewards for pvp. The thing is, they don't have to be that significant to make people happy. Cosmetic items, titles, unlocks for your server.

Everyone says this game's pvp is like DAOC. But DAOC had both realm points and access to Darkness Falls. That was hardly the corruption of the "wow generation" but just a little something extra. It did give you another goal to work towards, and what is wrong with another goal? It does not necessarily have to be a grind. I played WoW for 4 years and never grinded pvp, I just did it when I wanted to, for the hell of it. Any rewards I got were coincidental.

Thu May 03 2012 4:47PM Report
srps writes:

Oh lord, not Pokket again, what an awful player that doesn't research about games she plays, and worse, she plays them badly.

Especially in this site (and forums) where most are elitist or representative of a small minority or actual MMO players, I wonder how does someone as mediocre as her manages to get some success. Maybe it's the green dyed hair, dunno.

 

Anyway, GW2 certainly has its faults, but I feel most are within balancing \ tweaking region. I'm sure ArenaNet got a lot of feedback, especially with that ingenious feedback window system that popped-up after certain events completion.

Thu May 03 2012 5:59PM Report
Azarith writes:

Repairs on a gate are easily delt with. Each attackable location has a supply stockpile. Once their supply is gone they can't repair anymore.

Go out with a small group of people and kill any supply caravans heading to the keep and the supply camps. Once they're out of supply then you can break down the doors without them repairing.

It works really well how it is in my opinion. Some of the most fun I had in the BWE was running behind enemy lines with my guild to take out enemy supply while the rest of our world was assaulting the gate.

Thu May 03 2012 6:24PM Report
Azarith writes:

The more I watch the more I want to correct her. Please do some research on the game and mechanics you're talking about before your next video.

Melee have no place in WvW? Name 1 melee class that can't switch to a ranged weapon. Boiling pots killing melee? Target those things as soon as you see them and blow them up with ranged so that people can get in melee range. Ranged should cover the walls and kill defenders not just auto attack the doors.

Not being able to afford siege weapons? What level were you? I'm pretty sure the costs wont be as noticible at level 80.

I played a thief and I never once felt like I had nothing to do. If there is too much aoe going on at the gate. Who better to man the siege weapons?

Thu May 03 2012 6:36PM Report
gaeanprayer writes:

Wow, people are harsh. Yes, Pokket is extremely uninformed about melee and WvWvW but so are a lot of people. It's going to take time for people to get that the game functions differently than other MMOs and, once they finally get that through their heads, they'll realize how melee is still functional. Also, yes Anet admitted Melee still needs tweaking, but that's largely PvE-based where enemies favor meleers a little too heavily. In PvP, they're quite fine as they are. They hit harder than people are range by a large margin and ALL meleers have both a way to close the gap and escape. A well-played warrior or thief is a pain in the ass and I could point you to tons of videos of Guardians being all but invulnerable when played correctly (the damage takes a dive, but the playstyle is situational to prevent entry and create choke points).

TL;DR, people still have to L2P. GW2 isn't run of the mill, can't expect people to be pro at this right out the bat. Though, yes, that should be kept in mind before someone creates a review.

Thu May 03 2012 7:05PM Report
Goreson writes:

@SteeJanz: how is melee supposed to be as powerful at range?

Close combat range? Well definitely, but I assume you are talking long range? So, care to explain how hitting empty space with your sword, mace, knife, fist is supposed to be 'powerful' against an enemy that that is 10 m away? For actual melee the melee fighter will have to close.

But of course in GW2 a melee fighter might be able to switch to ranged attacks to fight off the nasty bugger there 10 m away. Which in turn makes this 'melee' toon a ranged fighter.

In short: melee could only ever be considered powerful at range if there is some sort of mechanic included that allows closing the gap before the 'ranger' can move away.

Now, of course one could say that every class  has a ranged option available, so why bother trying to find gap closer mechanics if all you need to do is just switch and go range instead of melee.

Well, that idea is a bit flawed as different classes are 'differently' powerful at range (or melee for that matter).

Which means that certain classes will be more suited for certain tasks i.e. ranging over other classes.

At which point one shouldn't forget that there is no 'commit your warrior' in GW2's EB: so, depending on how well you prepare yourself for battle (and which keep/outpost is fought over) rather than switching attack styles and as a more melee suited toon going to inferior ranged, it may just be easier to just switch characters and then attack in you new, better fitting role...

So yeah, how well the 'you can be both ranged and melee' concept will fly remains to be seen IMO.

Just as the 'everybody can self heal' still will see players on the battlefield that rather focus on trying to heal/revive their comrades than just let every one take care of him/herself.     

Thu May 03 2012 7:08PM Report
Alders writes:

Instead of spamming 1 on the fort doors and not using siege weapons, how about going and cutting off supply so they can't rebuild?

 

The only time i don't melee in WvW is if i'm on the keep doors, which makes sense.  There are so many objectives that you really don't need to follow the zerg.

Thu May 03 2012 7:17PM Report
Goreson writes:

Azarith (and others),

seriously? You are complaining that Pokket didn't do enough research on the game?

Jeez, frankly that is one of the dumbest things I've heard regarding newer MMOs!

First, the information that is available outside the game itself is, well, questionable at best: the information that gamers provide is based on earlier stages of beta (or even alpha) and potentially hearsay they think they may have picked up from some 'source'.

Or would you care to point us here to an official AN website with complete, offical information on how things are actually working in GW2?

Second, little documentation/information is provided ingame in GW2.

I played the BWE, I levelled my engineer up via PvE, I loaded up on skills and also invested my trait points.

Frankly, due to the very limited information AN has attached to skills and traits (in game) I pretty much fucked up most of my initial choices.

IF AN had bothered to give good info, well, guess what, I would have done my research and made smarter choices...

In short: don't cry about people not doing enough research when there is no real material available to base your research on.

As of the last BWE I'd say for most people that weren't in prior GW2 events, AN left them with a friendly 'trial and error' system.

Thu May 03 2012 7:21PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@Goreson

I went off an some tangent there so I am not sure I follow what your saying but here is what I think your saying.

There are not ranged stats and melee stats in GW2 just power, precision, toughness and vitality.  It doesn't matter if you are holding a ranged weapon or a melee weapon, your stats are the same.  Now melee skills due more damage then ranged because the require you to be  up close and personal.  But that goes for elementalist and warriors, the melee skills for both hit harder.  You can't think of GW2 like other MMO's.  So absolutely, if you are standing at the keep door trying to defend or break in, and you are warrior, unless you want just stand there and look pretty, you will need to equip a ranged weapon to help your team.  As soon as the doors go down you can switch to melee and get close and personal.

Also, rangers do have an advantage with being able to more damage from further away because they are a ranger but its minimal. 

It sounds to me that you don't understand how it works and your think like a warrior in WOW.  Gimped by the game because of the character you chose.   

Thu May 03 2012 8:01PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

^ I totally screwed my previous post up.  I meant to say "you" went off on a tangent and I I will try to answer it by stating..."  

Sorry

Thu May 03 2012 8:08PM Report
Pokket writes:

@Alders

I'm not sure what seige weapon you used, but the button that actually slams the door is 1... that's why you spam one when you're taking a door (which you see me doing while on the seige weapon). It's quite fun.

And please tell me WHY I'd want to switch to range if I WANT to play a melee class (besides the fact that I have to in order to be effective)? If I am playing a melee class, I DO NOT want to HAVE to play range half the time just so I can deal damage and be effective. If I want to be a range class, then I'll be range.

I can't count how many times I saw melee just sitting on the walls herpderping while defending because they didn't have their range weapon yet.

And you all basically DO prove my point... MELEE is ineffective in WvW because you have to switch to range.

Thu May 03 2012 9:33PM Report
Nailzzz writes:

(quoting pocket)

"And please tell me WHY I'd want to switch to range if I WANT to play a melee class (besides the fact that I have to in order to be effective)? If I am playing a melee class, I DO NOT want to HAVE to play range half the time just so I can deal damage and be effective. If I want to be a range class, then I'll be range." """"

     What is a melee class in GW2? Also, what is a ranged class? This seems to be the aspect you dont seem to get about GW2. Every class in this game is both ranged and melee. A warrior switching to a bow is not gimped compared to a ranger using a bow like in almost every other mmo.

     I played a necromancer and i was equally effective using daggers in melee as i was using a staff at range. As a necro, would you consider me a ranged or melee class? If you never bothered with dagger attacks on your ele... you missed out. Ride the lightning is awesome.

Thu May 03 2012 10:33PM Report
c-tray writes:

 

I'm trying to imagine some kind Monty Python skit where a bunch of warriors would run up to a giant siege door with their axes and bat away at it. lol.

I just makes more sense to whip out a rifle or bow during a siege, once the door is down you can whip out your ax and start playing some slash riffs on peoples souls.

and kodos to no names over peoples heads, its something I'm sure I would probably really avoid doing if I ever had to go to war.

Thu May 03 2012 10:42PM Report
Zeroxin writes:

You get glory from structured PvP, Pokket. You can also see the amount of glory you've accumulated in your hero panel. You can then use that glory to buy a different set of gear to look more like a PvPer.

About autobalancing, I noticed that if you don't answer the "would you like to switch to the other team" pop-up, it will automatically pick someone who didn't reply to it. I always replied to it (I usually switched to the other team) but there was a time when I didn't answer and just left the pop-up there but I was just teleported anyway and when I did answer by saying "I'll take my chances" I didn't get teleported at all.

Fri May 04 2012 1:38AM Report
bala666 writes:

after watching this i realize you just are a huge star wars fanboy.

Fri May 04 2012 4:32AM Report
Goreson writes:

@SteeJanz: of course I don't understand how it works, I only play-tested (in PvE and PvP/EB) a number of different classes in BWE.

But you of course are a fountain of wisdom regarding probably not just GW2 but all things MMO... yeah... well...

Okay, what you should understand is that while classes can switch between a melee and a ranged approach to fighting in GW2, not for all classes is either equally effective.

I'll take the engineer as an example: I don't think there will be much of a question regarding his ranged fighting abilities: pistol and rifle as weapons, spam a turret or two (or more), alternatively throw some grenades.

But what about melee?

Of course, you can 'melee' with your pistol/rifle, or maybe one should rather say 'fight at melee range with your pistol/rifle', but that would be just that: no true melee!

Let's go flametrower! Oh... wait... same story...

Drop some mines in around you and wait until the enemy is standing on them, then just blow 'em. Same for lobbing grenades right at your feet so that you bring the pain to the guy who is trying to club you to death...

Frankly, all of this is not really melee in my book.

So, in what way would you class the engineer not just as a melee fighter but also as his melee side being equal to his ranged side?

Really, all a (smart) engineer can do when things get melee is to opengap shot the enemy with his rifle, move back, maybe freeze/blind the enemy for a bit of safety, and then set up shop a bit further away, ranging again and hoping that whoever is melee on his side will close in on the enemy before he catches up to the engineer again.

And guess what: this is exactly the same way I play a saboteur in SWTOR when it comes to melee.

In short: not only is the GW2 class of Engineer not on equal terms as a melee compared to his ranged abilities, he doesn't even bring anything new to the gaming table!

Now, what about the Guardian?

Hm... let's switch to rifle for range... sorry, weapon not available for this class. Pistol? Longbow? Sling? Darts? Spitting? No go on any of them.

So he has to work his ranged magic thru, well, his magic...  wow, why does that sound so familiar? oh, wait, maybe because it's pretty much a copy of the Thane I played a decade ago in DAoC?

While these two maybe be extremes in regards to a class' ranged capabilities vs their melee side, they are not unique.

if you look closer at every class you'll see that pretty much always one side is stronger than the other.

At which point the question comes, would you rather play a class that can give about 50% of what other classes can offer at a given task or would you rather play a class that can easily bring 110%?

I know, people will say 'but how can you switch a class in the middle of a fight on the EB?'

Well, here is a quick game of thoughts:

you play a 'lacking' class (i.e. lacking for the task at hand), unless you take your stand as a 'support' class (in ranged fighting maybe by reviving your fallen or providing spell defense, in melee maybe by pulling back and  then starting off on ranged again), you will die. Simple as that.

When you are dead, you go to a Turkish Bath house where you meet Charlie Sheen, when you meet Charlie Sheen you start re-enacting scenes from Platoon... oh, wait, wrong ad there...

When you are dead you can either wait for someone to rez you or you respawn at some base.

Now, with a bit of planning - and I'd say planning has always been a good tool for larger scale PvP -  you can make sure that you have a number of toons available on as close a call as can be.

So instead of waiting for that revive that may eventually happen, just re-spawn, log out, log in with a new char and you are pretty much ready to go having just switched to a better suited class for the task at hand.

And please, don't go now and say 'but you only have one strong class' (strong as in levelled up).

Considering that HP are maxed for EB, but not skills/traits/gear, you are looking at the need to just get level (to unlock util. skill slots) and skill points (though traits are obviously also fine).

Dedicated PvEing will not only get you to lvl5 (for you first util slot, or even lvl10 for the 2nd), you will also be able to easily farm skill points by rushing all the starting areas. (Not to mention money and gear.)

Assuming you know/can figure out which util skills you want, well, in less than a day of playing GW2 you can have a strong army of yourself that you can easily flip thru for the toon best suited for the EB task at hand.

So, why would I want to waste time sticking to one guy who is pretty much of little use a fair share of the time? Just because AN made all classes both melee and ranged capable? LOL

(or is it a pride thing? *rolls eyes*) 

Fri May 04 2012 7:07AM Report
Atlan99 writes:

@Pokket. There is no pure melee class or range. You can go melee with an elementalist. You can go range with a warrior. If you destroy the oil on top first, melee can then attack the door. Since melee does more damage, this would be smart.

The reason you didn't see melee doing anything is for multiple reasons. It's beta, it take forever to break open skills in WvWvW. In short people still don't know how to play.

Melee is ineffective in certain situations in WvWvW. Is there is oil above you, it is ineffective to run under it. If you are trying to hit someone at range melee is ineffective. Which is why you can switch to range for a minute to get rid of the oil, so you can then switch to melee.

Some of this is just getting to konw your class and how to play the game. It's understandable that you might miss some things in a beta weekend. Especially if you only played one character with one weapon skill.

P.S. If you check the GW2 beta forums you can see some melee elmentalist setups, with video.

Fri May 04 2012 8:38AM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@Goren

I am not sure what your intentions are because your rambling on about a lot of different things.  You obviously don't get the ranged/ melee weapon swapping and using it effectively to make yourself a better player. 

You bring up a good example of the engineer lacking true melee skills but that doesn't mean they don't have up close and personal skills to use.  I found while leveling my engineer to 21, that an effective use of the jump shot was to stand next to the mob and use the jump shot to jump straight up so that the mob receives damage from the aoe  at the beginning and the end.  Also, the flame thrower is for up close and personal.  Try to stand at range and use, see how ineffective it is. 

Also in GW2 your not going to have to log off your character to go get another one because the enemey you are fighting is a certain class.  Again, your thinking like WOW.  This game is not WOW.  If you can't beat them it will be because they are better than you.  The only reason to get another toon, would be because you are better at playing that toon otherwise that enemy will just beat you down again. 

Again, I am not sure what you are trying to say because you are all over the place and I am not that good at hitting moving targets.

Fri May 04 2012 9:17AM Report
Raevanhawk writes:

This is actually paying the bills?

Fri May 04 2012 9:19AM Report
MrStabems writes:

@people that think a warrior is melee only!

I like to look at it the other way, if I played a MMO that didn't give melee some kind of ranged attack the devs are worthless and I would cancel my account right away... You can't just play melee with a melee class it makes your character only worth 2/3 of your toon is suppose to be vs everyone else.

Fri May 04 2012 10:59AM Report
Nailzzz writes:

@ goreson: You almost have a point with the engineer class being a pure ranged class, except for many of the class skills with traditionally ranged weapons also have many  melee only skills or at least very short range. I suppose its a semantic argument, but in this case the engineer is not handicapped in melee. its weapons are still useful at melee range.

     Your argument about the guardian is completely false. Guardians can use both scepters and staffs for ranged attacks.

Fri May 04 2012 1:38PM Report
Goreson writes:

@SteeJanz, first, did I say that the Engineer is completely lacking in, well, let's call it 'close range fighting' as he actually doesn't have any true mele skills? Nope... it's just a simple fact that he is better suited for longer ranged fighting than close ranging.

And that's the whole point I'm making: the ability to switch between melee and ranged may be there for classes in GW2 but as both modes don't offer the same effectiveness, the question is just 'why bother?'

Just to say 'hey, I did not withdraw from the fight in EB to change my class!'?

Frankly, that is a rather dumb mindset as group gaming is not about what is best for one player alone but for the group and what it is trying to do.

Which means that IF max ranged damage needs to be dished out fielding a toon that has very limited ranged options is, well, not really bringing much to the fight.

So - another point I'm trying to make - it makes very much sense to log out and enter the EB again as a more situation suited class.

Which - for EB and it's rather distinct fighting phases - makes much more sense than taking the stance of 'my toon can be both melee and ranged, so no matter that either end is not as good as the other, I'll stick to using him fulltime!' especially as you can easily have rather powerful chars readily available.

SteeJanz, I hope you get this? I don't know if I can move this train of thoughts any slower for you. :-P  

And please SteeJanz, stop blabber that I'm thinking like WoW.

I never bothered going past the character creation screen on that game a few years back as, seriously, the toons suck(ed).

But more important, you want to take a guess which was the first class I ever played in an MMO: it was the Scout in DAoC (EU Closed Beta), and just in case you don't know anything about that class: while he is primarily a ranged fighter, he very much was also rather suited for going melee (assisted by Shield specs).

So switching a (suitable) char from effective ranged fighting to also quite effective melee fighting is far from new for me. ;-)

(And frankly, I do prefer my toons to be able to do so, meaning I usually try to find the classes most suited to that concept in games)

 

Fri May 04 2012 6:16PM Report
Goreson writes:

@Mrstabems

I don't agree (sorry) it's a simple question of how what design you (well, the game designer) has in mind for a certain class.

For example, take a berserker.

While one may make the point that potentially a berserker may have used the spear that in the Norse literature is often matched with them for throwing it at the enemy.

Yet, for most people the typical picture of a berserker will be that of a raging melee fighter.

Now, a designer may be tempted to give a berserker some sort of means to 'attack' a enemy at range, yet, making this an attack that actually does (severe) damage without the berserker actually closing the gap would seem completely against the nature of the 'class' to me.

Similar, if you look at classic battles, you will find that knights for example did not use the bow but instead charged into battle.

The bow was left to dedicated archers that were by far less suited for melee fights than their melee counterparts.

So, on a military level, the 'mixed' fighter is a rather new concept.

Of course, one can always argue that potentially a merc fighter may have tried to spread his skills as wide as possible, encompassing both fighting skills as well as survival skills i.e. setting traps, using the bow, etc.

In short, if you think that a melee(!) class only having melee abilities, makes him only 2/3 of the (wo)man s/he could be, well, I'd say you are wrong... *shrug*   

Fri May 04 2012 6:46PM Report
Goreson writes:

@Nailzz,

well, yes, of course can an Engineer 'short range' (which may as well be translated as 'melee') fight with his weapons but true melee skills are missing.

I'd see skills like the 'Stock Strike' or the 'Pistol Whip' from SWTOR as good examples of giving a ranged combat style a melee option. *shrug*

As for the Guardian and his ranged attacks: in what way am I wrong?

Are you going to tell me he is actually throwing either his scepter or his staff on a oneway trip towards the enemy? *raises eyebrow*

Fri May 04 2012 6:59PM Report
SteeJanz writes:

@ Goreson

Maybe you should slow it down more often because you make more sense that way.   :)

Your still missing the point though.  Your talking about bringing a player that best fits the situation in the game.  In GW2 you chose a profession based on what fits your play sytle better. 

You don't even recognize the fact that your first character, that you enjoyed playing DAOC, gets logged off because you have to get a toon that fits the situation better.  To make the team better.  That does not have to happen in GW2.  You may change your skills and weapon but you play the toon that you want play.  BTW, just because your thinking like WOW doesn't mean you play WOW.  Most MMO's play that way and judging by the fact that you have to log to get the "right" toon supports my statement of it being WOWish.  I am happy that I will never have to log off the toon I wanted to play just to do something with my friends.  Thank you GW2. 

Fri May 04 2012 9:00PM Report
MrStabems writes:

@Goreson

That is totally fine, if you want to talk real life old school battles then when a melee in a game is just standing around doing nothing when fighting at range then don't complain. But this is a RPG where you fight small battle with small fighting forces that need to be all they can be not a bunch of nerds screaming well in the old times I wouldn't have a bow (You know you read in a nerdy voice : P )

And for the berserker spear fine but for a game I would go with throwing axe.  It would just feel better for A GAME.

Fri May 04 2012 9:21PM Report
Conone writes: But there is a reward in pvp its call the satisfaction of kicking the other person butt. Fri May 04 2012 11:09PM Report
Nailzzz writes:

     Goreson quote:

"As for the Guardian and his ranged attacks: in what way am I wrong?

Are you going to tell me he is actually throwing either his scepter or his staff on a oneway trip towards the enemy? *raises eyebrow* """"": "       

 

     Well, ty for informing us that you didnt actually play in bwe. Anyone who has played the guardian or paid attention to them at all in GW2 would already know that both the scepter and staff are ranged weapons that are not actually thrown. They are caster weapons from which spells are cast from at range.

      That isnt just true of guardians either. It is true of all classes that use either of those weapons. The fact that you would asume that scepters or staffs are thrown weapons when i mention them being ranged weapons further illustrates that you have no idea what your talking about and havent played GW2 at all. Hell, even in this video from pocket, she is using a staff as a casting wepon at range and it still went entirely over your head.

Sat May 05 2012 1:51AM Report
Zeroxin writes:

Actually Gorescon doesn't have a point at all.

Engineer's melee kits; Tool kit , Bomb kit.

Sat May 05 2012 2:02AM Report
kneebane writes:

Hi Pokket,

 

thank for another video! :) What I was wondering did your side on WvW tried to first ensure there are no more resources flowing into keep before occupying it. For us it kinda ensured their ability to repair worn out pretty soonish and after all it shouldn't be so easy, especially if your guild has placed alot of sweat and tears to upgrade your own keep and then it would be boom occupied in a whim.

About melee on door bashing in wvw, I believe Anet has stated that melee is equally able to deal damage with ranged, so e.g. warriors with long bows, rogues with short bow and so on, it should't be a problem IMO.

About the rewards, well I believe since there are no gear progressions in common sense like in WoW or SWTOR there is no such need for huge rewards, you get karma and some coins to repair but other than that I think it works nicely, it should't be too easy or cheap to get siege weapons otherwise there would be 100 catapults in line at each keep grinding them to pulver :).

Cheers

Sat May 05 2012 6:08AM Report
Goreson writes:

Nailzz,

thanks for confirming to us that you can type BUT ACTUALLY HAVE PROBLEMS READING!

Didn't i point out that the Guardian is 'ranging' thru his magic?

so, thanks for re-confirming that.

Now, can I suggest that you learn how to read?

 

Sat May 05 2012 6:38AM Report
Goreson writes:

Zeroxin,

I do beg your pardon!

I couldn't be bothered to pick the Tool kit in the BWE for... well... something (to be honest, this is what I consider a huge fail of this game at this stage: the lack of ingame information! i mean why should I have to go to some outside source to get rather basic information? Or waste skill points just to figure out that, again, something is a completely useless skill (to me)? Anyways, so I went to the GW" Wiki and had a look:)

wow, you get Smack and Pry Bar, 2 actual melee attacks!

Yeah... well... but let's just quickly compare things:

Engineer being able to switch from ranged attacks to melee attacks (not considering the effectiveness of either attack forms) via use of 1 of his (unlocked) utility skill slots (A)

Other classes being able to switch from ranged attacks to melee attacks (again not considering the effectiveness of either attack forms) via use of the free weapon slots (B)

Would you say A < B? Or A = B? Or A > B? 

Sat May 05 2012 7:28AM Report
Goreson writes:

@MrStabems

Food for thought: small battles with small forces... wouldn't it make sense to maximize the power of that force?

Which means - for RL considerations - to shift a certain force from the staging area to the battlezone if said force can be of greater use? while at the same time shifting the (at that time useless troops) back to the rear?

And yeah, have fun with your 'throw my axe, now I'm down to my hands and teeth' berserker ;-)

Sat May 05 2012 7:38AM Report
Goreson writes:

@MrStabems

Food for thought: small battles with small forces... wouldn't it make sense to maximize the power of that force?

Which means - for RL considerations - to shift a certain force from the staging area to the battlezone if said force can be of greater use? while at the same time shifting the (at that time useless troops) back to the rear?

And yeah, have fun with your 'throw my axe, now I'm down to my hands and teeth' berserker ;-)

Sat May 05 2012 7:38AM Report
Vesavius writes:

Not a single bad thing to say about SWtOR pre launch and yet gives what it likes about GW2 a 'brief' mention while droning on about what she dosen't like?

ok, I get it, no need to watch any more Pokket vids on this particular game then ;)

Sat May 05 2012 8:19AM Report
Nailzzz writes:

Goreson writes:

Nailzz,

thanks for confirming to us that you can type BUT ACTUALLY HAVE PROBLEMS READING!

Didn't i point out that the Guardian is 'ranging' thru his magic?

so, thanks for re-confirming that.

Now, can I suggest that you learn how to read?

     I wont deny that my reading comprehension is being taxed somewhat by trying to read what i can only asume is the best efforts of someone still in an ESL class. Im having even more trouble understanding how a guardian "ranging through his magic" makes him any less range capable than any other class using a staff or scepter. You didnt seem to bring this up with necro's, ele's or mesmers yet i dont seem to see them as being handicapped vs. bow or gun users.

     Please, without nonsense rambling on, explain what your issue is with the games range vs melee issue. Your coming off incredible schizophrenic with your moving explanation goalpost.

 

Sat May 05 2012 9:54AM Report
Nailzzz writes:

Goreson writes:

Zeroxin,

I do beg your pardon!

I couldn't be bothered to pick the Tool kit in the BWE for... well... something (to be honest, this is what I consider a huge fail of this game at this stage: the lack of ingame information! i mean why should I have to go to some outside source to get rather basic information? Or waste skill points just to figure out that, again, something is a completely useless skill (to me)? Anyways, so I went to the GW" Wiki and had a look:)"

     You are aware that the B in BWE stands for Beta, right? Are you really expecting a tutorial in a beta? I mean sure some games may include a tutorial in thier beta, but the thing about beta is it acknowledges that aspects of the game are incomplete. With so many new systems in place that are not all standard in mmo's it would make sense to throw new players into the game without a tutorial to see what confuses players so they know what areas the tutorial should focus on explaining.

     Aside from that your ignorance doesnt automatically lead to it being a huge fail on the part of the dev's. You might want to at least make an attempt to learn to play before whining about what instructions you feel you are entitled to in a beta. Most of the people playing in the BWE had never played before either, including myself.

      So you wasted a few skill points, so what? Its a beta. Most of the people are trying things out and are grateful for the opportunity to be able to screw up a little now before the game goes retail so they know what not to do when its time to make thier actual charachters.

Sat May 05 2012 10:10AM Report
MrStabems writes:

Goreson

  Its alright I figured this from the start you're just here to defend pokket it was clear post after post of yours. The point I was making was that MMORPG's are based off of D&D and tolkien, where melee used ranged to weaken a force before it reached them. And since they were always limited on men against a great force they had no choice but to pick up a bow to survive. Which makes for a great battle, if you want RL like battles go play a RTS.  And yes I play a lot of RTS and in that I would have separate forces for different parts of battle, but in a game that really isn't based of RL battles but just the devices ill take the epic battle over the RTS style battle.

  Once again for the Zerker the throwing axe would be a small axe that they would carry with their main weapon. It would add weight but most zerkers are strong enough. But hell I'm sure when he rages hands and teeth are used even if he still has a weapon : P 

  I don't post on MMORPG.com often since most of the time people just argue because they are either trolling or feeling attacked so they will go way out it left field just to try to stay in the debate. So I will state now that I'm not attacking pokket or you, just attacking people complaining about somthing that isn't a problem at all. Then the devs change the game to make up for the screaming kid in the corner till the people that were busy having fun in the game no longer want to play since it was beaten down into a crappy game.

For a Final thought since I'm not posting again in this thread (might come back to read a bit, but not going to post again here ;) )   

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain

Sat May 05 2012 10:41AM Report
Zeroxin writes:

@ Gorescon

The game comes with descriptions for what each skill does, maybe it doesn't describe the tool kit as appropriately as you might like but there's still a description there.

And A = B. The effectiveness of the weapon depends on the player.

Sat May 05 2012 6:22PM Report
Zeroxin writes:

@ Gorescon

Actually, you are right about the description thing. Tool kits need a clearer way describe what they do.

Sat May 05 2012 6:25PM Report
GhostGeisha writes:

Miss Fortune!

Sat May 05 2012 6:46PM Report
Goreson writes:

Nailzz,

again glad to see that apparently reading is not your thing...

in regards to the (missing) description I clearly(!) said that this is what I consider a huge fail of GW2 at this stage.

I can only hope that AN will work on that aspect to have actually good information available ingame.

'Why?' you may ask in your limited understanding...

well, yes, I wasted some skill points... in beta... big deal, those chars are gone... and if I were to play GW2 upon release, yes, I could look back on those mistakes and act accordingly... but what if information remains as bad in release? I'm sorry but wasting points then and there  - whether as a first time GW2 player or because AN figured that skills needed a bit of a re-working resulting in them being quite different from BWE (and just to recap for you: with lacking information on skills!) it  would definitely piss me off! Unless they were to include an option to respec your skills, not just your traits.

And just to make one thing clear: I'm not talking about a tutorial here that explains "new systems" (*cough* still wondering that that is really supposed to be... it's not like GW2 is for the most part just using stuff that has been around the block in other games before... noooo, never *cough*) I'm talking about basic information for skills e.g. while the ingame description for gun turret skill gives a range, the one for the rocket launcher turret doesn't.

Do you really think that leaving out such basic information in some description, yet not in others, will give the game designers deeper insight into the game and what information needs to be provided? Or should this just be considered them lacking in 'quality control'?

And just for a bit of brain fodder for you (hoping that it won't be too much to digest): a beta is meant as a tool for the developers to get feedback.

So, maybe rather than fanbhoying and calling people whiners, maybe you should actually consider what it is I do here (and have done in the BWE surveys): point out flaws in the game.

well, of course to you it's just whining... *shrug*

I think that maybe at this point we should end this here and now, as obviously you have your point of view, as I have mine.

So, may GW2 make all your fondest dreams come true and be the 'bestest' game ever in your collection.

Sat May 05 2012 7:54PM Report
Goreson writes:

MrStabems,

not really sure what to make of your posting...

for starters you are throwing D&D and Tolkien into the ring...

Oh, I admit that I have not touched D&D4E and very little D&D3 and 3.5, but based on my experience with coming from classic D&D via AD&D to AD&D2ndE, I've actually seen very little that would be of the same level as EB fighting: D&D is all about a small band of adventurers, not large scale, siege level warfare!

Whereas with Tolkien's LotR obviously you do have your massed warfare, no doubt there, just as you have your small fellowships making their way thru the world.

Ooops, is that what you were saying? That MMOs are all about small skirmishes?

Well, sorry to break it to ya fella, but this isn't quite what you'll see most of the time in the EB. There will be siege warfare, there will be large hordes of people fighting each other.

Which requires a slightly different mindset than 'we are an adventuring party and need to make the best out of what we got right here, right now': IF GW2 had a system where you actually are committed to a certain class (whether in general just by not being able to easy-level or just by not switching chars once you've gone EB), I'd agree that giving classes as many options for EBing as possible - which MAY mean making them both melee and ranged capable (though if you know the classic D&D wizard you'll know how ill-suited he is for melee: he was the guy in the back hurling fireballs, perfectly shielded by your tank(s)) - but this is not the case here: in EB GW2 allows you to  have easy access to an arsenal of characters that you can easily get up to a strong-ish level.

So, in short: why use a class that can do 'sort of okay' damage ranged if I can just swap to a class that will bring on Hell as ranged?

*shrug*

On Bezerkers: well, again, to each their own... yet, I'm sure you actually are disappointed by most MMOs as for clearly melee focused classes the game designers usually invent very little in ranged attacks. But of course, this is not the case here in GW2... for better or worse *shrug*

But what you NEED to accept is that you actually are also nothing but "the screaming kid in the corner": alas where other find fault in something in the game and therefore complain, you on the other hand outright refuse them that right, as, of course, that will ruin your game...

well, I'd love to offer you this bitter truth with a pacifier for just a wee bit of happiness, but sorry, I'll give it to you straight and harsh: MMOs are in flux! Class adjustment, class balancing being constantly done is the norm in this type of game. So don't be surprised if you find some patch down the road that suddenly GW2 "sucks" as your favorite things have been "nerfed".

On that note: enjoy GW2 while it lasts... *shrug*

Sat May 05 2012 9:03PM Report
kneebane writes:

@Pokket 

Hmm, I do understand the logic on stating that melee is uneffective if it has to change to ranged but I guess it is all about reacting to situation. If you think about defending a castle it is true, very risky to stay under oil pot naturally but in a keep it is a matter of how defences are built. E.g. If there are some cannons and arrow carts around the walls I think they are just plain stupid if they let ranged just to pound the gate from distance at peace. They get cannon balls and arrows hailing at their mids forcing them to react and move even go to melee depending on placement of defences *Shrugs*.  Still naturally ranged doesn't have to change anything, they are as effective from close as far. 

I think it is very challenging to place ranged and melee in equal position on occupying a castle but what is important is that there is somewhat equal risk for both...

Melee gets oil if they pound the gate and they have hard time seeing defenders at all. If defenders focus fully on them, they can be picked by ranged quite easily.

Ranged gets arrows/cannon balls and are first to get hit if there comes more people to help with castle defence. If defenders focus fully on them melee will at ease break down the gate.

I would say they are in pretty equal position so that they can be reached by defence methods and have a risk as well a need to react on situation.

 

Sun May 06 2012 1:43AM Report
Mothanos writes:

The bane of any mmo...

Melee VS Range

Balance is almost imposible to achieve.

Looking back at WoW and her Warrior class its a thin line from Underpowered to Overpowered.

Same with Range like a Frost Mage.

 

People just need to understand that true balance is imposible and 1vs1 doesnt need to be in perfect balance.

To many variables to play with and it always end up in tears of nerfing the shit out of 1 class and buffing antoher to OP versus some other class.

 

I know Anet has a reputation of having one if not the BEST balanced mmo created with GW1, so i have high hope that it wont be diffrent for GW2.

 

Also lol at the people who expect GW2 to invent the awesome might bulb...

At this point in time you can only had flavor and spice to a mmo, one just cant create something TOTALY new anymore.

We have seen it all and Anet just happen to combine all flavors for a very very special delicous cake.

Take it as it is or you are in for a long long wait till something on par with GW2 will come out.

Sun May 06 2012 8:01AM Report
zaylin writes:

@Nethermancer   Exactly!! PvP for the Fun and excitment!

Sun May 06 2012 1:55PM Report
Alders writes:

Melee are more than viable for WvW but you can't expect to sit in front of a keep door pounding away while being bombarded with projectiles. 

In what MMO can you run into melee range of 20+ players and expect to survive longer than 2 seconds?

There are other objectives other than keep doors if people want to be stubborn and not use all the tools given to them by devs.

Sun May 06 2012 2:09PM Report
gexz7 writes:

I have played counter strike for many years with few rewardss, is there something wrong with me?

Sun May 06 2012 3:54PM Report
palulalula writes:

Is that Warhammer 2?

Sun May 06 2012 5:13PM Report
Jimmydean writes:

@Palulalula

No, melee had purpose in Warhammer. This is Ranged Wars 2.

Mon May 07 2012 12:43PM Report