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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » Should GW2 have kept more traditional mmo mechanics?

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125 posts found
  MightyChasm

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 311

 
OP  2/15/13 7:48:23 AM#1

There is plenty that is good about GW2 but I just found it overwhelmingly tedious.  There are many reasons for this that I won't go into, but principally I never felt any sense of immersion.  I put this down to the following: -

1) Lack of Quest Hubs: In many areas the mechanics just felt over simplistic.  The hearts and the events were just a step too far in removing the player from any meaningful interaction with the game.  You just role up and fill the bar, then move on.  You don't need to talk to anyone or interact in anyway, you don't even meet the same people because you can just float around the tetris map aimlessly without any rhyme or reason.  Even learning skills and combat were just too quick and simple; and simple= dull.  

2) Lack of Defined Roles: Other parts of the game mechanics were too complex, such as the group setup, which required you to set the roles and the tactics and to communicate these with your team.  Great if you have a regular group, but given that the rest of the game is so desperately casual this seems to be an odd anomaly, and results in the complete mess that are dungeons amongst more casual or uninitiated players or PUG groups.  

In addition, given that all characters fundamentally do the same thing there is never that sense of being needed in a group, you are just a replaceable part.  Also, the fact your skills are largely chosen for you  juxtaposes awkwardly against the apparent freedom from defined roles.           

Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5975

2/15/13 8:03:30 AM#2

No. I didn't like Quest hubs and I don't like Heart quest. Those should have never been made int the game. And with a game like this, Aet should have never had level mechanics. It takes away from the fun.

also the game should have included raid dungeons, which it did not. Events can't replace Instanced PvE. Rift proves that.

the trinity should have never been removed, but simply allow all classes to play each role. No healers basically kills large scale PvE and PvP for Melee fighters.

also the game should have had more in world effects that the player changes and controls.

  natpick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/08
Posts: 96

2/15/13 8:10:17 AM#3

i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/15/13 8:16:45 AM#4
I'll have to offer an emphatic "Hell no!" with regards to the thread title. The "traditional MMO" mechanics are what make the other MMOs like, well, the other MMOs. By taking what they've taken and discarding what they've discarded they've created a unique MMO in a sea of clones and I'm glad for it. If the day ever comes that I miss "traditional" things, like the trinity, quest hubs, static worlds, dull rotation based combat, non-consentual PvP etc. there will always be plenty of MMOs to choose from to get that fix. But what they've done they've done, in my opinion, remarkably well and I'm enjoying the hell out of, so why would I want it to change?

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

2/15/13 8:20:40 AM#5

Lack of meaningful player interaction bored me to tears.  GW2 focused more on the solo player, whether groups were available or not.  Then the removal of the trinity made the classes somewhat bland and uninteresting.  Every skill is more or less like it's counterparts, just different names and particle effects.

 

I have to give credit to ArenaNet though for not charging a monthly subscription just to play a single player MMO... like some other games are doing or are planning to do.

 

What will be interesting in the years to come are all those games that jumped onto the GW2-clone era during development, removing roles and / or classes.  In PnP days, if every class was a warrior / thief / priest / mage hybrid, it would not have been overly exciting - maybe at first, but part of the fun was being useful to others in long term campaigns.  .. the feeling of being important, irreplaceable .. having decisions fall on you the individual (because you were the only one with an applicable character skill or knowledge).

 

Some like GW2 though (just not me).  It will be another niche market I suppose.

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  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5397

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/15/13 8:26:50 AM#6
Originally posted by Volkon
I'll have to offer an emphatic "Hell no!" with regards to the thread title. The "traditional MMO" mechanics are what make the other MMOs like, well, the other MMOs. By taking what they've taken and discarding what they've discarded they've created a unique MMO in a sea of clones and I'm glad for it. If the day ever comes that I miss "traditional" things, like the trinity, quest hubs, static worlds, dull rotation based combat, non-consentual PvP etc. there will always be plenty of MMOs to choose from to get that fix. But what they've done they've done, in my opinion, remarkably well and I'm enjoying the hell out of, so why would I want it to change?

i agree. ANET just need to keep improving what they have and add new stuff. Too many similar mmos out there with traditional mechanics to get just another one. GW1 felt unique in its own way. Now GW2 feels unique in its own way. 

I do agree with another poster that it would have been interesting to see GW2 without levels. But yeah, im happy with the product, and will be happier as they keep improving it and adding new stuff.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2724

There... are... four... lights!

2/15/13 8:30:57 AM#7

You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

Sorry, but no thanks.

And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

2/15/13 8:35:22 AM#8
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Volkon
I'll have to offer an emphatic "Hell no!" with regards to the thread title. The "traditional MMO" mechanics are what make the other MMOs like, well, the other MMOs. By taking what they've taken and discarding what they've discarded they've created a unique MMO in a sea of clones and I'm glad for it. If the day ever comes that I miss "traditional" things, like the trinity, quest hubs, static worlds, dull rotation based combat, non-consentual PvP etc. there will always be plenty of MMOs to choose from to get that fix. But what they've done they've done, in my opinion, remarkably well and I'm enjoying the hell out of, so why would I want it to change?

i agree. ANET just need to keep improving what they have and add new stuff. Too many similar mmos out there with traditional mechanics to get just another one. GW1 felt unique in its own way. Now GW2 feels unique in its own way. 

I do agree with another poster that it would have been interesting to see GW2 without levels. But yeah, im happy with the product, and will be happier as they keep improving it and adding new stuff.

I will 3rd this :P 

The game would be just another niche MMO had it stuck with traditional MMO mechanics. I'm not overly fond of the hearts myself but I personally avoid them and find a much better game due to that. They were only added to help ease players coming from more traditional themeparks into the experience anyways. 

 

I do wish they would add more weapon variety. Some of the summons would make awesome permanent weapons and add a bit of spice and variety to the game and the classes. 

 

But yeah, at the end of the day if they had gone with more traditional MMO mechanics I seriously doubt they would have been the second most played Western MMO. It would have been nothing but a niche game like so many others. 

  Cylint

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 12

2/15/13 8:37:09 AM#9

Couldn't disagree with you more on point #1.  Quest Hubs and pointless talking with no real story progression and lore is just horrible.  And the free exploration of an open world is greater then any corridor driven on rails mmo. So, on that point I hope that more MMOs learn from GW2 and do away with quest hubs.

On point #2, well, I hate what GW2 did with the classes. A recent poll on another popular website overwhelmingly supported the holy trinity system over that of GW2. I loved how Rift did the class system. You can be a tank and still switch to a roll for solo or PvP. That was perfect.

Now, you spoke of a lack of immersion, and I too felt this. SWTOR was not a very good MMO, but it had the best story lines in any game, ever. Guild Wars 2 story just plain sucks. Getting my personal story hijacked by a walking cabbage kind of sucked too.

Overall, they did a great job with the game, and I think you'll find that they have changed the MMO landscape forever - for the better.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

2/15/13 8:37:24 AM#10

My answer is NO! People already call it a WoW clone etc. What would have been called if they used the same old tired mechanics?

I hate the Trinity - is is a boring and utterly trite. What I mean is -as I ALWAYS EXPLAIN - you don't even need to communicate in games with the Trinity - Tanks do just that - healers - well they just stand there and heal - DPS they PEW, PEW, PEW the mob. That is not very exciting or interesting. Give me something else to try. People don't like to get out of their comfort zone and the Trinity is a comfort zone for MMO'ers. I myself, appreciate the outside the box thinking on the professions in GW2 - they totally play different for me and are fun.

 

If you don't like the game - don't play it. No one is asking you to. (it is not you are paying a sub to play it).

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  MightyChasm

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 311

 
OP  2/15/13 8:39:45 AM#11
Originally posted by botrytis

My answer is NO! People already call it a WoW clone etc. What would have been called if they used the same old tired mechanics?

If you don't like the game - don't play it. No one is asking you to.

As always a well reasoned and constructive response.  Thank you.  

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12112

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

2/15/13 8:41:26 AM#12
Originally posted by MightyChasm

There is plenty that is good about GW2 but I just found it overwhelmingly tedious.  There are many reasons for this that I won't go into, but principally I never felt any sense of immersion.  I put this down to the following: -

1) Lack of Quest Hubs:

2) Lack of Defined Roles: 

In addition, given that all characters fundamentally do the same thing there is never that sense of being needed in a group, you are just a replaceable part.  Also, the fact your skills are largely chosen for you  juxtaposes awkwardly against the apparent freedom from defined roles.           

Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs? 

I like new choices and different approaches to gameplay. specifically, I enjoy GW2's departure from the mainstream EQ/WOW approach. If you want something more traditional, definitely check out the dozens of MMOs that travel that path.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

2/15/13 8:42:03 AM#13

There are roles in the game. It's just most content doesn;t require that much teamwork to win. But when you actually find a good boss the coba really shines so i don;t want gW2 to be more traditional. i want them to keep improving what they have.

Quest hubs I don;t miss at all. They were tediou, boring and irritating most of the time. DEs even with it's limitations are a massive step forward.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2724

There... are... four... lights!

2/15/13 8:46:27 AM#14
Originally posted by Loktofeit 

I like new choices and different approaches to gameplay. specifically, I enjoy GW2's departure from the mainstream EQ/WOW approach. If you want something more traditional, definitely check out the dozens of MMOs that travel that path.

Yeah, that also amazes me. People complain for 8 years that every game is based on WoW/EQ's model, and when a mainstream company produces a quality game which is not using that model, they complain that it's not using the model.

If that's not /facepalm material, they I don't know what it is...

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1713

2/15/13 8:46:40 AM#15
Originally posted by MightyChasm  

Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

2/15/13 8:49:10 AM#16

The level of noob MMO players is too damn high in this website -.-" 

I'm no elitist, I play casually, I have the best gear and few lvl 80 toons. Let me tell you this, dodge saves your ass, proper build saves your ass, proper and timed skill usage saves your ass. If you can't play the game, don't say the game suck. The only thing that suck is the player ESPECIALLY when you complain that you die a lot. Dafuq I have every survivor achievement there is in game, because I don't die that often. In fact I don't even die in the hardest dungeon IG, because I know my enemy AND my toon. 

 

I hate the trinity. Being able to play whatever I want, and swap the trait build while inside dungeon or WvW is just awesome. I adjust myself to the situation. I don't cry that I'm not suited for the given encounter. 

If you don't "get" the game due to brain inability, don't spit on it. GW2 has a lot more to offer than any other MMO currently on the market including the subscription based ones. ANet is a great developer too. Google "Sanctum of Rall" and see where the name comes from. 

 

Go back to WoW, chances are, we don't really need you

  MightyChasm

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 311

 
OP  2/15/13 8:49:40 AM#17
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by MightyChasm  

Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

Thats true of most posts on here.  May as well shut the site.  But seriously you can extract your head from your arse now.  

  MsGamerlady

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/05
Posts: 168

"We can make ourselves miserable or we can make ourselves happy.The amount of work is the same."

2/15/13 8:49:41 AM#18

Well op since you asked I'll bite. Nope the game is fine the way it is imo.

  MightyChasm

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 311

 
OP  2/15/13 8:51:35 AM#19
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

The level of noob MMO players is too damn high in this website -.-" 

I'm no elitist, I play casually, I have the best gear and few lvl 80 toons. Let me tell you this, dodge saves your ass, proper build saves your ass, proper and timed skill usage saves your ass. If you can't play the game, don't say the game suck. The only thing that suck is the player ESPECIALLY when you complain that you die a lot. Dafuq I have every survivor achievement there is in game, because I don't die that often. In fact I don't even die in the hardest dungeon IG, because I know my enemy AND my toon. 

 

I hate the trinity. Being able to play whatever I want, and swap the trait build while inside dungeon or WvW is just awesome. I adjust myself to the situation. I don't cry that I'm not suited for the given encounter. 

If you don't "get" the game due to brain inability, don't spit on it. GW2 has a lot more to offer than any other MMO currently on the market including the subscription based ones. ANet is a great developer too. Google "Sanctum of Rall" and see where the name comes from. 

 

Go back to WoW, chances are, we don't really need you

Have you even read the OP?  

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1713

2/15/13 8:52:17 AM#20
Originally posted by MightyChasm
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by MightyChasm  

Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

Thats true of most posts on here.  May as well shut the site.  But seriously you can extract your head from your arse now.  

Did I hurt your feelings that much? 

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

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