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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » The depth of combat in GW2.

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185 posts found
  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/04/12 6:36:36 PM#61

TSW is more about how you want to deal damage. but i do agree that you can't really compare the 2 games. GW2 felt alot more like a downtime game to me to be honest. Something you really don't want to dig into deeply something, for afew hours of fun. When i did the trial that was what i took away from it. The games combat doesn't really hold the same depth people have said it did, However it didn't really need it.

 

Ah a good way to describe it is a Action game that uses a Hot Bar. I'm not talking down the game because of it though, The game is solid just Shallow Combat wise. Some like it others don't.

 

Edit (forgot to make my point)

 

GW2 is more of a static progression that you can get out of the way early. Less customizeable but there isnt a need for it to be customizeable because of how the game is built. This adds a large pickup and play quality and im my opinion GW2 is a pick up and play game.

TSW is built around the idea of customizeation, everything is customizeable and has a huge pitfall if you botch said customizeation. With customizeation comes hours of planning, crunching numbers to maximize your ability, Research, Practice, ETC. 

 

i said this before either games were released that they would not be compareable however people have this feeling that if MMO is in the title then they have to be the same game.

 

My opinion is that the Customizeation adds alot of depth. GW2 avoided said customizeation and the game felt more shallow. However it doesnt need the customizeation nearly as much as TSW does.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

12/04/12 6:47:25 PM#62
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by muffins89
it's percieved depth.  gw2 combat is pretty shallow.  aside from combo's with other players it's standard themepark combat.  with movement.  oh,  and dodge. 

I love statements like those... why? because if guild wars is shallow.. then depth in other games must be nonexistant.

I think you need to go back and try some older games, dodging does not count as depth.  The combat in GW2 is indeed a very shallow and underwhelming experience.  Fun at first but grows old quicker than most games.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 6:58:41 PM#63
Originally posted by grimgryphon
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by Rayshe

Seems i came into this conversation far to late.

 

The way i will compare depth will be based off builds themselves. of course TSW will win because of customizeablility but its not my main focus.

 

The reason i prefer TSW is because set up correctly its almost like a chain of abilities going off.

My original Build was simply timing my blows correctly so that my biggest attacks were always going to autocrit. Worked quite well for me in fact until i got to the later nightmares. there is a passive that every 6th hit autocrits, I would mix that with something that boosts my crit chance upon crit, once i got my first crit off it would continue boosting it until its maxed. because of that i didnt put any points to Crit Chance only crit damage. Even if i wasnt critting regularly my auto crits still made my big hits spike my DPS meter. Then with Penetration since it happened more often i threw a little bit extra points into Pen chance and allowed it to build naturally with another passive.

Everything else just straight out boosted damage.

 

Can combat look like this in GW2?

Im not sure what you are talking about? but from what you and others say.. its really difficult to compare the two... gw2 is less about  obtaining skills than it is about player skills.. whereas tsw is mostly about the skills you can acquire..

[mod edit]

well, then every mmo in existence is shallow.. cause the same has been said about most if not all.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/04/12 7:01:44 PM#64
I make a opening post thats very vague and it gets qouted and follows a conversation. i make a well written and explained post and it vanishes into nothingness. Then again im on MMORPG forums so i really shouldnt expect much else.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:04:17 PM#65
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by muffins89
it's percieved depth.  gw2 combat is pretty shallow.  aside from combo's with other players it's standard themepark combat.  with movement.  oh,  and dodge. 

I love statements like those... why? because if guild wars is shallow.. then depth in other games must be nonexistant.

I think you need to go back and try some older games, dodging does not count as depth.  The combat in GW2 is indeed a very shallow and underwhelming experience.  Fun at first but grows old quicker than most games.

it just depends on your perspective... gw2 combat is active..regardless of what the trolls say.. now is deep? after reading one post about what depth is... i chose to agree.. but at the same time... i also feel that most other games lack depth as well... someone gave a description of tsw... and it sounds relatively deep in comparison.. but compared to FF and AA... all preceding games lack depth in my opinion...

 

What gw2 does have is depth in the preperation phase... and in that respect it exceeds most other games... you have to prepare for your encounters before you begin them... while soloing it doesn't matter much... but in groups /DE/dungeons... preperation can at times make all the difference.. (I have experienced this personally.)

This preperation adds depth.. you may not consider it adding to combat itself.. but it does add to combat mechanics.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16710

12/04/12 7:06:48 PM#66

I am not sure how you could define "depth" in MMO combat.

It sure aint the numbers of skills you have, I played MMOs where have 40+ skills but still use the same skill rotation.

GW2s combat is about positioning, dodging, timing and for you to keep an eye on yourself and the rest of the players around you (maybe not in a huge zerg but then zergs in any game really just are the same).

Would I call that deep? Not really but I fear that you have to have a turnbased combat system for deep combat and not the shallow system like the FF games or Atlantica but a more advanced version we saw in SSG/AoLs "Neverwinter nights" (not to be confused with Biowares later game with the same name).

Combat systems like that is something that works fine with a few players and even in an instanced CORPG but it just wouldnt work in a MMO.

GW2 aint more shallow than other MMOs combat wise but hardly much deeper either. And sandbox games really isnt better in that aspect either. But who cares? It is more important if it is fun and that is up to you (I think it is, Elikal prefer trinity combat).

The whole thing kinda feels like discussing if Twilight is deeper than Harry Potter or if valentines day or mothers day is most important holiday...

If someone actually can figure out a MMO combat mechanics that is actually fun and deep, please go ahead and make a game with it, but until that is done I am happy with "fun".

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:06:52 PM#67
Originally posted by Rayshe
I make a opening post thats very vague and it gets qouted and follows a conversation. i make a well written and explained post and it vanishes into nothingness. Then again im on MMORPG forums so i really shouldnt expect much else.

I think it has to do with ppl not reading the entire history... If I see a discussion that has over 30 posts i typically won't post there because i'm not interested in reading 50+ posts... otherwise i read them all to get caught up and then post.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:10:10 PM#68
Originally posted by Loke666

I am not sure how you could define "depth" in MMO combat.

It sure aint the numbers of skills you have, I played MMOs where have 40+ skills but still use the same skill rotation.

GW2s combat is about positioning, dodging, timing and for you to keep an eye on yourself and the rest of the players around you (maybe not in a huge zerg but then zergs in any game really just are the same).

Would I call that deep? Not really but I fear that you have to have a turnbased combat system for deep combat and not the shallow system like the FF games or Atlantica but a more advanced version we saw in SSG/AoLs "Neverwinter nights" (not to be confused with Biowares later game with the same name).

Combat systems like that is something that works fine with a few players and even in an instanced CORPG but it just wouldnt work in a MMO.

GW2 aint more shallow than other MMOs combat wise but hardly much deeper either. And sandbox games really isnt better in that aspect either. But who cares? It is more important if it is fun and that is up to you (I think it is, Elikal prefer trinity combat).

The whole thing kinda feels like discussing if Twilight is deeper than Harry Potter or if valentines day or mothers day is most important holiday...

If someone actually can figure out a MMO combat mechanics that is actually fun and deep, please go ahead and make a game with it, but until that is done I am happy with "fun".

I agree... I think that ppl who say its not deep either want to play a thinking man's game or their used to playing consoles... I personally wouldn't have used the term.. I just picked it up from the OP. when corrected and given a definition of depth.. I couldn't help but agree that gw2 isn't deep...

so just as you say.. no mmo has depth to the combat system.

It may force you to think..

It may force you to be actively engaged...

but depth... i doubt it.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

12/04/12 7:21:04 PM#69

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:23:35 PM#70
Originally posted by TalulaRose

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

Honestly, that doesn't seem much different then gw2... just on a bigger scale.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/04/12 7:24:01 PM#71
I do personally feel that TSW does have depth in combat. That may actually be the reason people keep saying they don't like the combat. Depth and Simplicity rarely go hand and hand.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:26:38 PM#72
Idk... no one can agree on what depth means. but is it more involved than other games? is it less simplistic? yes, it is a lot different.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

12/04/12 7:29:50 PM#73
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

Honestly, that doesn't seem much different then gw2... just on a bigger scale.

lol....you just don't want to admit that TSW offers alot more when it comes to how you approach combat than GW2.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:31:32 PM#74
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

Honestly, that doesn't seem much different then gw2... just on a bigger scale.

lol....you just don't want to admit that TSW offers alot more when it comes to how you approach combat than GW2.

If you are talking about skills.. yes.. it has much more variety.  gw2 focus is on how changing your traits and slotting your gear can affect your playstyle.. but if your prefer skill selection.. tsw is the way to go

 

edit: granted im not a number fanatic... and i would never have known about the 30% thing if i played tsw and as such i probably don't know all the ins n outs of gw2

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

12/04/12 7:38:14 PM#75
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

Honestly, that doesn't seem much different then gw2... just on a bigger scale.

lol....you just don't want to admit that TSW offers alot more when it comes to how you approach combat than GW2.

If you are talking about skills.. yes.. it has much more variety.  gw2 focus is on how changing your traits and slotting your gear can affect your playstyle.. but if your prefer skill selection.. tsw is the way to go

TSW has that too. Each piece of equipment + weapons have a slot that you can add what they call signets into. And then there is glyphs...lets not forget the glyphs. Gear and weapons can be customized by glyphs.

 

Glyphs affect you stats such as penetration, hit, crit, crit damage and more.

Signets add many passive perks like hps, or passives like for every hit you get 1% more damage maxing out at 10% and then resets, or when a mob puts a condition on you you get a small heal, or a shield and there are a ton of them. I have close to 100 signets that all do different things.

 

And guess what...glyphs and signets add even more ways to adjust your playstyle when it comes to combat, tanking and healing.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 435

12/04/12 7:40:20 PM#76
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

Honestly, that doesn't seem much different then gw2... just on a bigger scale.

lol....you just don't want to admit that TSW offers alot more when it comes to how you approach combat than GW2.

If you are talking about skills.. yes.. it has much more variety.  gw2 focus is on how changing your traits and slotting your gear can affect your playstyle.. but if your prefer skill selection.. tsw is the way to go

TSW has that too. Each piece of equipment + weapons have a slot that you can add what they call signets into. And then there is glyphs...lets not forget the glyphs. Gear and weapons can be customized by glyphs.

 

Glyphs affect you stats such as penetration, hit, crit, crit damage and more.

Signets add many passive perks like hps, or passives like for every hit you get 1% more damage maxing out at 10% and then resets, or when a mob puts a condition on you you get a small heal, or a shield and there are a ton of them. I have close to 100 signets that all do different things.

 

And guess what...glyphs and signets add even more ways to adjust your playstyle when it comes to combat, tanking and healing.

lol, are you advertising?

 

but really... never said i didn't like the game.. but at this point i'm not gonna play it.. have too much going on.. and playing too many games.. have too many ps3 games that i have yet to beat.

 

edit: sounds great though

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5799

12/04/12 7:43:38 PM#77
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by TalulaRose

TSW has dodge and by moving you reduce damage by 30%.

Or you can create a build to leech health through damage so you don't have to move around on those days you are feeling lazy.

Or you can sacrifice damge and stack movement hindering actives and passives along with abilities that crerate distance to slowly pick at the mobs health....until you run into those nightmare mobs who are immune...and then its back to the drawing board to put together a build to deal with them.

Honestly, that doesn't seem much different then gw2... just on a bigger scale.

lol....you just don't want to admit that TSW offers alot more when it comes to how you approach combat than GW2.

The number of skills doesn't means it offers more to combat.  Rift has a lot of skills and skill synergy between soul builds yet one would be hard pressed to call the combat deep or to tout it as having more to offer.

What matters to me is that the combat is fun.  TSW combat could be fun too.  This isn't combat highlander is it?

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5799

12/04/12 7:46:28 PM#78
Originally posted by Rayshe
I do personally feel that TSW does have depth in combat. That may actually be the reason people keep saying they don't like the combat. Depth and Simplicity rarely go hand and hand.

Complexity for its own sake shouldn't be the measure of depth.  And the thread isn't really about TSW combat, but about GW2 combat.  If GW2 doesn't have deep combat why?  If TSW has deep combat and could be contrasted to GW2 then specifically why?  I realize not many people want to talk about TSW anymore, but open a thread about how that combat is so deep if you want to just talk about it.

Curse you AquaScum!

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

12/04/12 7:56:58 PM#79
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Rayshe
I do personally feel that TSW does have depth in combat. That may actually be the reason people keep saying they don't like the combat. Depth and Simplicity rarely go hand and hand.

Complexity for its own sake shouldn't be the measure of depth.  And the thread isn't really about TSW combat, but about GW2 combat.  If GW2 doesn't have deep combat why?  If TSW has deep combat and could be contrasted to GW2 then specifically why?  I realize not many people want to talk about TSW anymore, but open a thread about how that combat is so deep if you want to just talk about it.

Start reading. No point to repost.

  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 969

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

12/04/12 8:23:12 PM#80

I think that the combat in GW2 is half unique in the sense that it mixes hotbar and action combat in a way I haven't quite seen. Some comparisons like LoL for the limited skills and Tera for the movement in combat would be a good place to start.

I don't think the combat is weak but i think the character building is weak at the moment. Underwater combat needs a few more weapons, some of the classes coud do with a few more weapon skills, I would even add more conditions or boons to make the metagame far more interesting and elite skills just don't feel super enough.

Combat is good, character/skill building is on the weak side. 

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

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