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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » End Game Grind Now Showing?

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98 posts found
  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

10/08/12 9:58:43 AM#41

It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 9:58:46 AM#42
Lol Tekno for me the legendary requirement screams out to me as a BIG long term goal which I love. It is good that gw2 supports us both and that's what Anet tried to achieve.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4622

10/08/12 9:59:28 AM#43
Originally posted by vigg2004

I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

 

Thanks for the info!

There is some grinding, but it's not a requirement. It's very easy to get optimal gear in this game. Nearly all of the grind comes from being trying to obtain rare skins for weapons or armor. The amount of grind this can entail really depends on what you think looks cool, and how bad you want a certain skin.

Basically, GW2 has a cosmetic grind. The people who play longer will generally have cooler looking stuff. However, if you have the money for it, you can also buy components for the mystic forge. Some of the best looking stuff in the game is obtained through hidden recipies in the mystic forge.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 10:03:21 AM#44
That's the thing halife you don't need to grind gear or anything for dungeons or Pvp. If you don't like pvp or pve then everything a person sees will be a 'grind'. In 99% of other mmorgs you are forced to do certain activities to Gain rewards that are Compulsary for progress - and that is usually dungeon repetitions.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4622

10/08/12 10:06:31 AM#45
Originally posted by halflife25

It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

One misconception I see a lot from people, is they think that they need to get a legendary item (as if they are the best items in the game). Not so. They are simply the hardest to obtain. Tbh, most of the legendary items (imho) look like crap, but there are a few that look pretty awesome. There's a list online of hidden mystic forge items (that I think someone data mined) and there are some really cool looking stuff that you can get that way, which are just as powerful.

As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

10/08/12 10:07:07 AM#46
Originally posted by Bladestrom
That's the thing halife you don't need to grind gear or anything for dungeons or Pvp. If you don't like pvp or pve then everything a person sees will be a 'grind'. In 99% of other mmorgs you are forced to do certain activities to Gain rewards that are Compulsary for progress - and that is usually dungeon repetitions.

You don't need to grind anything in any MMO. I have been playing MMOS for a long time and never felt that i 'have to' grind neither i was forced into it. But regardless of what i personally feel....grind is just another word for repetition.

However, you people under estimate the attraction of skins and many would want it regardless of whether 'it is needed' or not. Also there are three tiers of armor sets and tier 3 does have better stats and looks than tier 1. Which is 'must' have for many.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

10/08/12 10:12:39 AM#47
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by halflife25

It is very difficult to get what you want in GW2 just by keep playing without worrying about 'grind' or 'repetition' part.  The crafting of legendary alone will take 200+ hours so there is lot of grind at the end. Question is if you enjoy it or not. 

For some reason people only associate word grind with 'gear based dungeons' as if  grind can not exist without it.

One misconception I see a lot from people, is they think that they need to get a legendary item (as if they are the best items in the game). Not so. They are simply the hardest to obtain. Tbh, most of the legendary items (imho) look like crap, but there are a few that look pretty awesome. There's a list online of hidden mystic forge items (that I think someone data mined) and there are some really cool looking stuff that you can get that way, which are just as powerful.

As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.

If legendary items exist in game and are advertised as end game weapons which make you look unique and different ofcourse a lot of players would think they 'need' it. it is just how they are advertised.

Also it is in interest of Anet that players keep playing and trying to get those weapons because lets be fair for PVE players there is not much to look for ward to once you hit 80. So legendary weapons gives them a reason to log in and play.

However, i completely disagree that mystic forged items look better. Not even clsoe in terms of design and effects. my personal opinion ofcourse.

As far as word 'grind' is concerned. It has always been about repeition but at some point it got associated only with 'gear progression dungeons'.  It is the asian titles which amde this word famous and i doubt at that time anyone though that the word grind was specificaly made for tier based dungeon MMOS.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 10:13:18 AM#48
Again you can choose to either do it or not. If you are forced to do something that is repetitive then that's a grind. If you choose to do something that is repetitive and feels Grindy and not fun then you are mad to do it - it is a game! Beyond this all games without an end point has repetition, it's a moot point.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 10:15:54 AM#49
So for me I love these types of goals that requires repetition, it's not a grind to me. As an example though repeat farming one instance over and over in gw1 is a grind (to me) do I don't do it!

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

10/08/12 10:16:53 AM#50
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Again you can choose to either do it or not. If you are forced to do something that is repetitive then that's a grind. If you choose to do something that is repetitive and feels Grindy and not fun then you are mad to do it - it is a game! Beyond this all games without an end point has repetition, it's a moot point.

And that is exactly what i said.  Question is whether you enjoy the repetition or not.

I was talking more about word grind and how it is exclusively associated only with dungeon tear based grind. Which in my opinion is not true since grind exists anywhere in game where you start feeling that you are not enjoying the repetitive tasks.

Everytime someone says GW2 has grind, people often try to down play it by pointing towards abscense of 'gear based dungeon design'. Both are not mutually exclusive.

  Siphaed

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 749

10/08/12 10:19:10 AM#51
Originally posted by vigg2004

I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

 

Thanks for the info!

No.  There's not much "grinding" unless you're trying to rush to a high vlaued target item (i.e. cultural armor, corrupted weapons, legendaries).  As for the game: just play it.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 10:23:10 AM#52
That is true, im more ir less agreeing with you. the problem comes not from gw2 but from games like wow that focuses its gameplay with dungeon repetition. The majority of mmorg players are forced to grind dungeons. Gw2 has lots of repetition all over the place and as I say it is not a grind purely because it would only be a grind if you were daft enough to take part in repetitive activity that you don't find fun.

Repetitive activity = grind if you don't want to do it.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4622

10/08/12 10:27:45 AM#53
Originally posted by halflife25

If legendary items exist in game and are advertised as end game weapons which make you look unique and different ofcourse a lot of players would think they 'need' it. it is just how they are advertised.

Also it is in interest of Anet that players keep playing and trying to get those weapons because lets be fair for PVE players there is not much to look for ward to once you hit 80. So legendary weapons gives them a reason to log in and play.

However, i completely disagree that mystic forged items look better. Not even clsoe in terms of design and effects. my personal opinion ofcourse.

As far as word 'grind' is concerned. It has always been about repeition but at some point it got associated only with 'gear progression dungeons'.  It is the asian titles which amde this word famous and i doubt at that time anyone though that the word grind was specificaly made for tier based dungeon MMOS.

Well, as you say, Anet wants people playing the game for a while. And yes, of course there's incentive. However it's not forced. And that's the key difference. You don't need them.

It's like a high end car. You don't need it, but damn does it look cool. You want it, and unless you do something clever, it's going to take you a long time to get enough money to afford it. It's only a grind for people who get it into their heads that they 'need' to have it.

As for the mystic forged items, of course it's all a matter of opinion. However, I think you'd be surprised. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you haven't seen a full list of what's available. (Tbh I'm not sure there is a 100% complete list atm, as there's still a lot of items that are unknown). However, for example, all of the elementalists' conjured items are actual skins in the game, and you can craft items that look the same. I.E. you can have a warrior running around permanently wielding a fiery greatsword.

There's also items that are spectral that you can craft in the mystic forge, that each have their own effects.  There's weapons that have runes etched in them that glow and look pretty awesome. There's ones that glow different colors during different times. Etc. There's a couple foci that also look awesome. One looks like you're manipulating magics in your hand, the other basically looks like a crystal that permanently drips blood. There's some really cool items hidden in there that people haven't discovered yet. Not to mention, there's also legendary armor, which exists, but noone has even begun to figure out how to make them.

  TdogSkal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 1259

Do not fear death, Death will come a knocking anytime it wants.

10/08/12 10:28:28 AM#54
Originally posted by vigg2004

I'm approaching level 80 in GW2, and I'm looking to the future.  I've seen several posts here indicating that there is a huge grind at endgame, be it DE's, dungeons or WvW, if you want to get good/rare gear.  Is this true?  Was GW2 not supposed to do away with grinding the same content over and over?

 

Thanks for the info!

You can grind if you choose too.

I choice to grind Dungeons as the armor looks great.

Once you have a lvl 80 exotic gear you have max stats.   No reason to grind gear for stats, only looks and runes/sigils.

I am just about done with my stat gear and been grinding for look now. 

WvW - Grind badges for PvP gear (look not stats)

Dungeons - Each dungeon has its own set of armor and weapons with different looks.  Each dungeon has certain stats on the armor as well but no better than dropped exotic stats

DEs -  Grind for Karma gear.

Even the top of the line weapons and armor have the same max stats.  Once you have those max stats its all about grind for type of look you want and its not really that much grinding.    3 to 4 runs of a dungeon on explorer will get you a piece of armor

Sooner or Later

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 10:30:36 AM#55
I can give a really abstract example that demonstrates what I'm talking about. Imagine 2 basic arcade machines sat side by side- space invaders and asteroids. Both games are both repetitive in the extreme. Historically you can put your 10 pence in either and play the repetitive levels to try and reach a high score. This was never known as a grind - you can play either game whenever you like. Now imagine you were only allowed to play asteroids if you cleared 50 levels of space invaders first - even when you did not want to play space invaders. .. This is a grind.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2758

10/08/12 10:32:39 AM#56
I don't think the grind is the problem.  The problem is the lack of a proportional reward for the grind.  Even sPVP needs to reward those players with ladder rankings.
  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2758

10/08/12 10:36:27 AM#57
Originally posted by observer

The "grind" is optional.  If you want a super amazing looking set, then set that as your goal.  If you don't want it, then don't do it.  I really hate when players complain that there isn't anything to do.  There's a lot of things to do, they just don't want to do them.  They might not like the content, but it's there.

End-game gear isn't the only thing to strive for in GW2.  Same goes for almost all MMOs, such as, Lotro, WoW, AoC, Swtor, etc.

  • 400 Max. for all crafting disciplines.
  • Explorable Dungeon runs for gear.
  • WvW.
  • SPvP (ranks).
  • 100% map completion.
  • Achievements. (there's a lot of these)
  • Personal Story.
  • Alts.
  • Mystic Forge discoveries.
  • Jumping Puzzles.
  • Dynamic Events (hundreds?).
  • Roleplay (if you're into it).
  • Create your own guild/public events (be creative).
  • etc..

There's really no character progression if you have all exotics.  Sure legendaries are nice but not THAT nice.

 

There is stuff to do, but for me personally I just don't want to run dungeons for cosmetics.  the only reason I would go back to crafting is for the legendary but meh.

 

I don't feel misled or bitter.  I just lost interest.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

10/08/12 10:38:35 AM#58
I think pve has got it perfect, the rewards are loot drops, and beyond dungeon tokens most rewards can be turned into gold which you can assign to any goal you fancy. spvp does have issues as the motivation for pvp is very different.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  User Deleted
10/08/12 11:00:43 AM#59

It does all feel somewhat "meh" to me now tbh. It's got some great little features, does a lot of things well and is amazing value for money. But currently it offers jumping puzzles and sPvP and that is about it, for me anyway.

 

BUT it allows instant access to those things and the potential to keep going back for updates, or whenever the fancy takes me. It will run nicely alongside Unholy Wars in the future. So no real complaints.

 

Others are ofc, having a blast and enjoying their time and will continue to do so, fair play to them and I hope they do indeed continue to have great fun.

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

10/08/12 11:26:08 AM#60


Originally posted by aesperus

As for the word 'grind', I think if people actually took a step back and looked at what they are calling a grind now, vs. what they considered a grind 2-4 years ago, they'd be shocked. Grind is quickly becoming synonymous with 'anything repetative', which is basically any videogame ever made, ever. What grind used to be, is a mundaine repeated task that was required in order to progress. GW2 doesn't have that. The 'grind' in this game is one that is completely optional. Sure there's incentives to do it, but as some have said, it's definitely a more longterm goal. You are still just as powerful w/ out a legendary, you just won't be cleaving the night sky, or shooting rainbows out of your butt.


Ah no, grind means going for the next tier of gear, rank or whatever, SWTOR and WoW has the most OBVIOUS grind; tier based dungeon and pvp gear, and I grew to freaking hate that because once you've accomplished enough pieces the devs add another set for you to go after, it got really bad in pvp with SWTOR.


There is a cosmetic grind in this game, but I've found enough mid-level gear that looks cool on my toons with a decent combination of dye colors. I'll keep playing the game until I gain enough gold or karma or skillpoint to get something new past 80, I don't even think about grinding anything- just play the game.


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