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Guild Wars 2 Forum » PvP » PVP. whats the point?

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92 posts found
  reef22

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 83

9/05/12 12:09:27 AM#21

For me, character progression and developement happens in PVE.  Because that's where I spend a huge chunk of my time in the game world.   That's where I learn how to fight and how to use my skills effectly.  Then if I go PVP, that's where i'll will "show off" what I've learned.

I don't play PVP to have "character progression".  I acutally don't even play PVP in other games.  Because it's not a fair fight most of the time.  I don't want to fight someone that wears uber gears.  If I want PVP, I want to fight someone that relies on his or her skills not just his/her armors.  I want an even ground.

I would practice my skills sets in PVE and then go into PVP and test on other players.  If my sword+pistal skill set is not working against a warrior then I'll go back to the drawing board and re-think my strategies, change out my weapons then go back in and try again.  To me, that is character progression and development.  

I'm playing the game not because my goal is to grind for gears so I could  kill the next player i see.  I play the game because of the fun and exploration and learning how to counter different mobs or players with different skill sets.

I would feel proud of myself if I won the battle because of my skills not because of what I wear.

 

Then again, it's just me.  it takes all kinds of people to make a MMO world so there's nothing wrong with you.  I'm just sorry that you thought GW 2 PVP will be gear grind based.  it didn't happen in GW 1 and it won't happen in GW 2 either.

  Talketzanto

Elite Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 184

9/05/12 12:12:44 AM#22
Could also have something to do with "I played this game for 4 months, and this guy just started playing yesterday and kicked my ass bad)
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1864

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

9/05/12 12:17:10 AM#23
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Ok, so, i know they wanted to avoid a gear grind with PVP and such in this game.  So i know the highest level set of stuff was supposed to be cosmetic only, but from what i gathered there would be some gear upgrades to work towards with PVP.

As far as i can tell there isnt.  You port to pre pvp area and you immediately get bumped to 80 and slapped into a full set of nice gear.  I run around looking at the vendors and all i can see are cat boxes or something like that, which i google and find out they basically drop some useless crap like glory boosters, etc.

Now. Correct me if im wrong about the gear, but if there is NO gear grind vs a "light" gear grind.  I honestly can't see the point of PVPing.  I certainly am not going to spend hundreds of hours doing it to get some fluff gear that just looks cool.

Why? Lets be honest. If i wanted pure, 0 gear grind PVP, i'm gonna go play counterstrike, or something like that.

I play MMO's for character development, if im going to invest 100 hours of play into some piece of gear i want it to do something for me.  It doesnt have to be a HUGE advantage, but it should grant some sort of advantage.  I know people are going to disagree with me, and frankly i don't care.  Its my opinion and what i look for in an mmo.

I'm not saying the game is crap because of it, im just saying i dont quite understand the point of doing that in an RPG when things like RTS's and FPS's etc exist.

yea, that's the propblem of the youth nowadays. they dont do anything just for fun.

you know, back in the days, we actually played shooter games just for the frags and the win!

there was nothing to gain while playing quake or unreal, only thing you got was a win or a lose and fun :)

 

today? see above "no itam!!!! how do i know i won when there is no better epix!?"

 

 

 

seriously, did you ever play chess or anything like it? RL games? what are you winning there?

guess people changed.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Svarcanum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/06
Posts: 346

9/05/12 12:22:18 AM#24
I wasted about 3 hours straight in sPvP the other night. It was super fun! But I'm with you, OP. I can't play for pure fun, cause my time really felt wasted. If there's no goal to work towards (and there would be with say rating or me having a serious team) I feel like a bad person for wasting time on a game. My prime motivator is achieving goals in games. I don't like single player games at all any more because they feel like kids' things. Same with part of the GW2 design; it doesn't really cater to my need to have a meaningful hobby. People are indeed different. But I'm really, really starting to dislike the buzzword FUN. No, I don't want fun. Everything I do in life is to fulfill longtime goals, I don't want my games to be any different.
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

9/05/12 12:30:42 AM#25

Simple answer to your question OP is that MMORPG PvP simply evolved  to be that way.

You see, back in the EQ and UO days, MMORPG PvP was...problematic.  That's right, contrary to what many folks on this board would have you believe, we did not all wander around riding unicorns and shooting rainbows back then.  People complained about things back then, just like they do now.  And one of the main complaints, was PvP.

MMORPG PvP seemed to either be barely existent (EQ), or devolve into a gank central (UO).  Only DAoC really implemented it well.  A lot of folks really did not the state of PvP...but they desperately wanted to enjoy PvP with their MMORPG character.  So WoW came along and said "hey guys, we're going to make PvP places called battlegrounds that will be kind of like the MMORPG version of a game of Battlefield 1942!"

So eventually when BG's actually came out, people gravitate towards them, and they became a staple part of themepark MMORPGs.

...But they were also problematic.  The problem was that the game type sought to emulate FPS matches which offer fair competition between teams, but the fact that some players had much better gear or level than others made the matches intrinsicially unfair.  So BGs by and large degenerated into a mechanism to "grind" for exp and loot instead of actually enjoy fair competition.  Because, let's be honest, they were not fair.

Now you have the next stop in this process...GW2 is trying to change the BG concept so that they actually offer fair competition.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  quon2k9

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 14

9/05/12 12:40:30 AM#26
Originally posted by nightfallrob
The point is that PvP is supposed to be fun in and of itself. A lot of us remember playing games without gear grinds for PvP, where if you didn't have the best of the best of the best stuff you could still win through skill. And a lot of us liked it. Gear grinds are for raiding, and that's fine, if that's what you want to do. PvP is for fighting other players only because it's more fun. If you need a gear grind for PvP, then a game like GW2 isn't going to be for you. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not your thing, much like gear grinds for PvP aren't mine. 

^This, a gazillion times, this. I enjoy GW2's PvP very very much, SO much so that I forgot that there even was a PvE portion of the game & was L11 for over a week. My friends & I, as was so eloquently stated by others before me, enjoy PvP for its own sake; for the challenge, for the excitement, for the sheer joy of besting other players in combat. Coming from behind & pulling the match out 500-490 with a fail team with Top Kills, ahh, there's nothing like it.

 

All we, my gaming group, does is PvP, mostly, in the games that we play, if that isn't your cup of green tea, sorry. I personally find gear grinds nauseatingly boring.

 

To each his own, maybe you just don't "get" it, if you don't feel the PvP love, & that's fine, but the rest of us are having a blast. No gear advantages because Player B has more free time than I do these days, just me, my crappy reflexes, my cobbled-together build, my underappreciated class (Engineer) & my clueless PuG against the World & I love it.

 

As for goals, I'm aiming for Slayer (2000 kills) right now, I'm halfway there.

 

See you in the Clock Tower. Bring friends.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

9/05/12 12:44:38 AM#27
Originally posted by Hrimnir

I get what you guys are saying, trust me i do.  My point was why in this format? I understood the original GW, i didnt play it because it wasnt my cup of tea.  But now it seems like they took the PVP of original guild wars and then kind of stuck into a more traditional MMO, which is why i get this weird vibe from it ya know.

And again, the whole "a lot of us remember playing PVP without gear grinds" hasnt gone anywhere.  Those game still exist.  i've been a pc gamer for the better part of 20 years, I used to play modem to modem games of warcraft 1 with people and do co-op over modem on doom 2, etc.  So i get the idea of PVP based purely on skill, and i enjoy that,  but i dont see the purpose of it in a traditional MMO.

GW1 seemed like they did it the right way.  You basically didnt have a set world, you sat around in an area and waited for your instanced PVP match to start, much like you do on say battlenet, instead its not a chat room, its just a social area you can run around in.

I guess my beef is once you add in levels that take more than a few hours to pass through (seems like the number is around 100 hours or so for the average person to hit 80)  It just seems dumb to then go, "welp, now you've leveled to 80 and your character progression is done.  Go spend countless hours PVPing for basically nothing more than the enjoyment of it".

/shrug.  I just think me and lots of people play RPG's for the character advancement aspect of it, and part of that is gear grinds.  I'm not saying there should be some ultra hardcore gear grind, but the way the devs implied it was that there would be a minor gear grind, i.e. you could get 1 piece every 2 or 3 hours of PVPing, and then after that you could start saving up for the super uber "Looks" equipment that didnt give a stat bonus.

But, as far as i can tell, you start out with the best stat gear you can get, so the only thing you are getting rewards for is the appearance related stuff.

 

 

There are two options.  Either 

a) Stop the gear-grind eventually, and take the risk of losing those who need the grind to give them purpose

b) Keep the gear-grind going, and turn "endgame" into an ever-moving oxymoronic joke, as the top-tier keeps escalating to eventually ridiculous proportions (more granular progression can slow this, but not stop it) and basically eliminate skill outside of small sub-brackets of approximately  equally geared characters.  (Not entirely eliminating skill, of course; if you are massively better than the other guy, you can beat gear with skill.  But if you're only somewhat better, you won't.)

 

I prefer (a) myself, as it requires the devs to make the actual gameplay interesting to keep people involved, rather than relying on Pavlovian psychological trickery to keep them chasing an illusory carrot regardless of the game's flaws.

  Odinthedark1

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 338

"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

9/05/12 12:55:14 AM#28
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Ok, so, i know they wanted to avoid a gear grind with PVP and such in this game.  So i know the highest level set of stuff was supposed to be cosmetic only, but from what i gathered there would be some gear upgrades to work towards with PVP.

As far as i can tell there isnt.  You port to pre pvp area and you immediately get bumped to 80 and slapped into a full set of nice gear.  I run around looking at the vendors and all i can see are cat boxes or something like that, which i google and find out they basically drop some useless crap like glory boosters, etc.

Now. Correct me if im wrong about the gear, but if there is NO gear grind vs a "light" gear grind.  I honestly can't see the point of PVPing.  I certainly am not going to spend hundreds of hours doing it to get some fluff gear that just looks cool.

Why? Lets be honest. If i wanted pure, 0 gear grind PVP, i'm gonna go play counterstrike, or something like that.

I play MMO's for character development, if im going to invest 100 hours of play into some piece of gear i want it to do something for me.  It doesnt have to be a HUGE advantage, but it should grant some sort of advantage.  I know people are going to disagree with me, and frankly i don't care.  Its my opinion and what i look for in an mmo.

I'm not saying the game is crap because of it, im just saying i dont quite understand the point of doing that in an RPG when things like RTS's and FPS's etc exist.

yea, that's the propblem of the youth nowadays. they dont do anything just for fun.

you know, back in the days, we actually played shooter games just for the frags and the win!

there was nothing to gain while playing quake or unreal, only thing you got was a win or a lose and fun :)

 

today? see above "no itam!!!! how do i know i won when there is no better epix!?"

 

 

 

seriously, did you ever play chess or anything like it? RL games? what are you winning there?

guess people changed.

You know i used to be pretty beast with a shock rifle, but somewhere along the line i stumbled across final fantasy which got me into RPG's...which later on led me to MMO's, i enjoyed the grind as well as killing and for me the 2 seem to go hand in hand now. its that way for alot of people, and hardly will you ever be pit against unfair fights unless ur in a pay 2 win game. in WoW it took me a week to get full honor gear then about a month and a half to get my arena set. and most of the time in arena's im going against people with equivalent gear but strategy / team work will always determine the winning side. People only use the gear excuse when they cant win, or "Your class is OP and doesnt take skill" people say that to me alot on any char i play and i admit to saying that to others that are on a whole nother level as well...im prob gonna get trolled for even bringing up WoW but what ive said all comes from experience, and theres nothing better than beating someone who has superior gear with skill, yesterday i beat a fully geared rogue with an almost fresh 85 hunter lol.

  quon2k9

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 14

9/05/12 1:12:58 AM#29

No, gear doesn't automatically=I WINZ!!! but it can give a moderate-to-significant advantage. In Rift, a non-geared PuG against a geared one was usually a massacre. I'm generalizing, I know, but those with more time to devote want a grind, while those like myself, who work 50+ hours/week, have a commute, gf, stuff to do, etc, don't. I'm really goal-oriented too but the 'carrot on a stick' thing only goes so far. Chasing shinies gets boring, but the thrill of battle never does, not for me.

 

No, it's not their problem that I can't devote 'x' amount of hours/week to getting geared just so I can be competitive in PvP, but I feel like no gear grind evens the odds/levels the playing field. If that guy beats me, he just flat-out beat me, I have NO excuse/s, & vice versa, & I like it that way.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/05/12 1:15:33 AM#30
Hold territory aand have fun doing it.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16610

9/05/12 1:18:00 AM#31

When did fun stopped being the reason people play games?

Nowadays it seems like the game must constantly bribe you to continue. 

For me stated PvP gear takes away most of the fun. If I win I will just think I had better gear and if I loose I will think the other fellow had better. When I defeat a player I want to feel like I did it because I played better, it is a great kick. PvP gear totally destroys that.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1816

"I shall take your position into consideration"

9/05/12 1:23:20 AM#32
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Ok, so, i know they wanted to avoid a gear grind with PVP and such in this game.  So i know the highest level set of stuff was supposed to be cosmetic only, but from what i gathered there would be some gear upgrades to work towards with PVP.

As far as i can tell there isnt.  You port to pre pvp area and you immediately get bumped to 80 and slapped into a full set of nice gear.  I run around looking at the vendors and all i can see are cat boxes or something like that, which i google and find out they basically drop some useless crap like glory boosters, etc.

Now. Correct me if im wrong about the gear, but if there is NO gear grind vs a "light" gear grind.  I honestly can't see the point of PVPing.  I certainly am not going to spend hundreds of hours doing it to get some fluff gear that just looks cool.

Why? Lets be honest. If i wanted pure, 0 gear grind PVP, i'm gonna go play counterstrike, or something like that.

I play MMO's for character development, if im going to invest 100 hours of play into some piece of gear i want it to do something for me.  It doesnt have to be a HUGE advantage, but it should grant some sort of advantage.  I know people are going to disagree with me, and frankly i don't care.  Its my opinion and what i look for in an mmo.

I'm not saying the game is crap because of it, im just saying i dont quite understand the point of doing that in an RPG when things like RTS's and FPS's etc exist.

yea, that's the propblem of the youth nowadays. they dont do anything just for fun.

you know, back in the days, we actually played shooter games just for the frags and the win!

there was nothing to gain while playing quake or unreal, only thing you got was a win or a lose and fun :)

 

today? see above "no itam!!!! how do i know i won when there is no better epix!?"

 

 

 

seriously, did you ever play chess or anything like it? RL games? what are you winning there?

guess people changed.

A very significant element of RPG and MMORPG games for many people have always been character progression / development.

I do not claim that it holds for everyone. Obviously, there are people who do not need it in RPGs and are happy to play them as FPS for the frags and the fun as you say. For me, it takes depth out of an MMORPG.

I do not think you understand this or maybe you just do not want to understand it. It is much easier to say it is problem of the youth, so that you basically imply that those who prefer something else than you are kids. Then finish it with "no itam", "epix", etc.

Well...

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Kraylor

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/12
Posts: 95

9/05/12 1:31:27 AM#33
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Ok, so, i know they wanted to avoid a gear grind with PVP and such in this game.  So i know the highest level set of stuff was supposed to be cosmetic only, but from what i gathered there would be some gear upgrades to work towards with PVP.

As far as i can tell there isnt.  You port to pre pvp area and you immediately get bumped to 80 and slapped into a full set of nice gear.  I run around looking at the vendors and all i can see are cat boxes or something like that, which i google and find out they basically drop some useless crap like glory boosters, etc.

Now. Correct me if im wrong about the gear, but if there is NO gear grind vs a "light" gear grind.  I honestly can't see the point of PVPing.  I certainly am not going to spend hundreds of hours doing it to get some fluff gear that just looks cool.

Why? Lets be honest. If i wanted pure, 0 gear grind PVP, i'm gonna go play counterstrike, or something like that.

I play MMO's for character development, if im going to invest 100 hours of play into some piece of gear i want it to do something for me.  It doesnt have to be a HUGE advantage, but it should grant some sort of advantage.  I know people are going to disagree with me, and frankly i don't care.  Its my opinion and what i look for in an mmo.

I'm not saying the game is crap because of it, im just saying i dont quite understand the point of doing that in an RPG when things like RTS's and FPS's etc exist.

yea, that's the propblem of the youth nowadays. they dont do anything just for fun.

you know, back in the days, we actually played shooter games just for the frags and the win!

there was nothing to gain while playing quake or unreal, only thing you got was a win or a lose and fun :)

 

today? see above "no itam!!!! how do i know i won when there is no better epix!?"

 

 

 

seriously, did you ever play chess or anything like it? RL games? what are you winning there?

guess people changed.

A very significant element of RPG and MMORPG games for many people have always been character progression / development.

I do not claim that it holds for everyone. Obviously, there are people who do not need it in RPGs and are happy to play them as FPS for the frags and the fun as you say. For me, it takes depth out of an MMORPG.

I do not think you understand this or maybe you just do not want to understand it. It is much easier to say it is problem of the youth, so that you basically imply that those who prefer something else than you are kids. Then finish it with "no itam", "epix", etc.

Well...

 

Well, he mentions youth and starts talking about FPS games.  Yes, FPS games like Doom, Quake, Hexen, and Descent were awesome, but they were not MMOs.  MMOs need to keep players hooked.  A developer can either hook a player by always having a carrot, be it crafted by the developers in the way of gear, or by having another way of doing meaningful pvp;  have ranks and unique skill unlocks or having open world city wars where you alter the in game world either by destroying player cities/objectives or guild wars.

 

I can't stand when people put forth a false dichotomy of pvp only consisting of just fun or a gear grind.  I for the life of me can't understand why a game called guild wars does not contain actual guild wars either.

Waiting on: The Repopulation

  vort3x

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/06
Posts: 124

9/05/12 1:32:43 AM#34
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by vort3x
Originally posted by Magnetia

*clipped* 

I don't understand how so many of MMO community seems to be doing stuff just to achieve something, rather than to simply have FUN. Sometimes I get the feeling you're all like "No, this is acutaly not fun, but I'm doing it, because i want that armor!"

Ok, im going to explain this simply for you.  ITS FUN!  *gasp* wait a minute, grinding for gear is fun? how is this possible?  this is madness, this is blasphemy?!!?!

Do you think the guy that spend 200 hours carefully putting together a ship in a bottle is enjoying the hand cramps, and the constant starting over because you make a tiny mistake and screw the whole thing up?  No. Of course its not FUN, but it gives a sense of satisfaction, and that is fun.  Same thing for the guy who spends 50 hours putting a 4000 piece puzzle together.

Just like making love to a woman you are in love with and care for is going to be far more enjoyable than just banging some drunk chick you took home from the bar.

The difference comes from being invested into something, it creates a different type of enjoyment.

I swear the modern generation doesn't get this.  They're so used to having everything at their fingertips that they've never learned the sense of enjoyment and satisfaction that comes from pursuing and completing a long term project.

Your argument would actually be pretty good... if you hadn't missed the point of my post and the point of this thread entirely...

 

See what i was talking about is FUN IN PVP. Not the fun of equipment grinding and puting your character together. But ok, we can have it your way... The way you put it, people are having fun in PvP because they are gear grinding and thus improving their character.. which kindof seems wrong to me in the first place. In your words that's like saying you enjoy making love to a woman, because you know you're gonna have a child in the end that you're goning to raise into a nice magnificent human being... 

Well I like making love with a woman just for the sake of making love. It feels good. Same thing goes for PvP.

Also... Just because you're given lvl 80 and equal gear to everyone doesn't mean "everything is at your fingertips". No, not at all. The long term project that you're talking about here is honing your own skills, instead of gear. Defeat players because you play the game better, not because you played more and have better gear.

I swear the modern generation doesn't get this. When they can improve something thatt they can see or hold it's fine. But honing your own skills (be it mental or physical) is just not tangible enough for them to be interesting...

  SnarkRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/10
Posts: 337

9/05/12 1:44:05 AM#35
OP, I'd advise you to go back to whatever treadmills you were enjoying, because you're pissing on one of the things that is most attractive about GW2:  Equal PvPing.
  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1090

 
OP  9/05/12 2:08:34 AM#36
 
 
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Ok, so, i know they wanted to avoid a gear grind with PVP and such in this game.  So i know the highest level set of stuff was supposed to be cosmetic only, but from what i gathered there would be some gear upgrades to work towards with PVP.

As far as i can tell there isnt.  You port to pre pvp area and you immediately get bumped to 80 and slapped into a full set of nice gear.  I run around looking at the vendors and all i can see are cat boxes or something like that, which i google and find out they basically drop some useless crap like glory boosters, etc.

Now. Correct me if im wrong about the gear, but if there is NO gear grind vs a "light" gear grind.  I honestly can't see the point of PVPing.  I certainly am not going to spend hundreds of hours doing it to get some fluff gear that just looks cool.

Why? Lets be honest. If i wanted pure, 0 gear grind PVP, i'm gonna go play counterstrike, or something like that.

I play MMO's for character development, if im going to invest 100 hours of play into some piece of gear i want it to do something for me.  It doesnt have to be a HUGE advantage, but it should grant some sort of advantage.  I know people are going to disagree with me, and frankly i don't care.  Its my opinion and what i look for in an mmo.

I'm not saying the game is crap because of it, im just saying i dont quite understand the point of doing that in an RPG when things like RTS's and FPS's etc exist.

yea, that's the propblem of the youth nowadays. they dont do anything just for fun.

you know, back in the days, we actually played shooter games just for the frags and the win!

there was nothing to gain while playing quake or unreal, only thing you got was a win or a lose and fun :)

 

today? see above "no itam!!!! how do i know i won when there is no better epix!?"

 

 

 

seriously, did you ever play chess or anything like it? RL games? what are you winning there?

guess people changed.

I dont even know why i bother responding to these posts.  Reading comprehension has apparently gone completely out of the window.  Yes, i play chess, yes, i play RTS, i used to compete on the ladders in original starcraft.  I've been lanning FPS's since most of the people posting on this forum were able to not shit themselves.

Once again my point is WHY in THIS FORMAT OF GAME.  Its like having a race track designed for go carts and then trying to use regular cars on it.  Can you do it, yes, but its going to be clunky and weird and feel wrong.

 

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Xten

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/12
Posts: 127

9/05/12 2:18:20 AM#37
Originally posted by Hrimnir

Now. Correct me if im wrong about the gear, but if there is NO gear grind vs a "light" gear grind.  I honestly can't see the point of PVPing.  I certainly am not going to spend hundreds of hours doing it to get some fluff gear that just looks cool.

 

Play in the tournaments to become player of the week

Then player of the month

and then shoot for player of the year

 

And for each of them get you name engraved in the big tombstone on te island of the mist.

If that is not enough for you next to playing for fun then there a zillion mmo's that let you bot 'n grind through threadmills.

 

 

 

 

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1090

 
OP  9/05/12 2:18:55 AM#38
 
 
Originally posted by vort3x
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by vort3x
Originally posted by Magnetia

*clipped* 

I don't understand how so many of MMO community seems to be doing stuff just to achieve something, rather than to simply have FUN. Sometimes I get the feeling you're all like "No, this is acutaly not fun, but I'm doing it, because i want that armor!"

Ok, im going to explain this simply for you.  ITS FUN!  *gasp* wait a minute, grinding for gear is fun? how is this possible?  this is madness, this is blasphemy?!!?!

Do you think the guy that spend 200 hours carefully putting together a ship in a bottle is enjoying the hand cramps, and the constant starting over because you make a tiny mistake and screw the whole thing up?  No. Of course its not FUN, but it gives a sense of satisfaction, and that is fun.  Same thing for the guy who spends 50 hours putting a 4000 piece puzzle together.

Just like making love to a woman you are in love with and care for is going to be far more enjoyable than just banging some drunk chick you took home from the bar.

The difference comes from being invested into something, it creates a different type of enjoyment.

I swear the modern generation doesn't get this.  They're so used to having everything at their fingertips that they've never learned the sense of enjoyment and satisfaction that comes from pursuing and completing a long term project.

Your argument would actually be pretty good... if you hadn't missed the point of my post and the point of this thread entirely...

 

See what i was talking about is FUN IN PVP. Not the fun of equipment grinding and puting your character together. But ok, we can have it your way... The way you put it, people are having fun in PvP because they are gear grinding and thus improving their character.. which kindof seems wrong to me in the first place. In your words that's like saying you enjoy making love to a woman, because you know you're gonna have a child in the end that you're goning to raise into a nice magnificent human being... 

Well I like making love with a woman just for the sake of making love. It feels good. Same thing goes for PvP.

Also... Just because you're given lvl 80 and equal gear to everyone doesn't mean "everything is at your fingertips". No, not at all. The long term project that you're talking about here is honing your own skills, instead of gear. Defeat players because you play the game better, not because you played more and have better gear.

I swear the modern generation doesn't get this. When they can improve something thatt they can see or hold it's fine. But honing your own skills (be it mental or physical) is just not tangible enough for them to be interesting...

Dude, im 28 years old, i got what you were saying;  What only maybe 4 people in this thread have understood is the point i am trying to make is not whether or not competitive PVP is fun, but should competitive PVP be placed in the confines of an MMORPG.

And as for your honing your skills argument.  It gernally takes about 2 million iteratons of doing something before you're a master at it.  So, while become a master of say performing an entire 20 minute pas de deux will take a lifetime to perfect, a game like this is going to take a few months AT MOST.  Now, if the whole stick was to try to learn every weapon combo for every class in the game and be top tier at all of it.  yes i could see someone doing that for years.  But, the reality is if you stick with the same character and same weapons, after a couple of weeks of playing you will have reached 99% of your skill capability.  Adding another 1000 hours isnt going to make you any significant amount better.

To respond to the people who are talking about grinds for gear in pvp.  My point is i would like to see a MINOR difference between sets.  Im talking like 5% at most.  So at least it feels like there is SOME point in it.  Otherwise i have no reason to play PVP in a game like GW2 for pure competitive "FUN" because playing something like CS:GO is far FAR more rewarding because its a far more pure skill based system than PVP in MMO's are.

 

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  kol56

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 130

9/05/12 2:25:29 AM#39

OP, i agree with you.

If i wanted mindless PVP for no reason, there are better genres, like RTS or FPS.

And im not even talking about gear, why bother with themepark PVP, it's awful.

At least in FPS or RTS games skill actually matters, in this game you are spaming 12345 while managing 2 cooldowns, and it's a zergfest.

Just wait for ArcheAge, where PVP has real meaning, real territorial warfare, open world towns/sieges, 100% open world.

 

If i wanted to play PVP for the gameplay, FPS and RTS are better choices than a game with 5 skill slots.

PVP in MMOs, at least for me, is all about longterm objectives, community, guild wars, territorial warfare, etc.

Not the gameplay, gameplay in MMOs suck, period.....

It's just a Red vs Blue (or in this case) Red team vs Blue team vs Green team PVP, there is no point, no objectives, no community, it's big zerg that will get boring, and fast.

"Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them's making a poop, the other one's carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge."

"The idea behind the tuxedo is the woman's point of view that men are all the same; so we might as well dress them that way. That's why a wedding is like the joining together of a beautiful, glowing bride and some guy"
-Seinfeld

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2285

"Free to play, pay to win""

9/05/12 2:27:47 AM#40

When it comes to games, there is only one reason:

 

FUN

 

If you want to get meaningfull and stuff like that, there's always real life.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

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