Originally posted by Xarnthal

I love how I'm a troll because I expected more out of the game.

 

It's really rather simple, I don't think it's as amazing as some here seem to think. I've been playing MMO's since EQ1 and when the dev's from ANet told me the game is going to seperate itself from other MMO's I was assuming they were telling the truth.

But after spending a good 20+ hours this weekend hiding in my basement, I've come to the conclusion that so far it's not anything that different. The RvR is not as good as DAoC, the eSport style of PvP is not for me really as I get bored playing the arena, and I thought the PvE was sub-par at best.

Maybe it is because I've come to enjoy the sandbox style games and the games that this MMO community does not like(unforgiving UO/Darkfall style games). But I thought the combat wasn't that great. To be honest I'm really surprised that people love the fact that you can double tap a button to dodge... like this hasn't been done since NES games.

But whatever, I'm just a troll with an invalid opinion because I don't agree with the same people who swore SWTOR is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

edit: Fixed in a poll for all those who hate reading on forums(...)

Let's be honest. You don't expect more out of gw2. As a matter of fact you don't give a damn about GW2. If you did, you would have posted these "issues" in the suggestions thread at the gw2 forums during the weekend. You would have been helping  Arena Net to make a better game. (What was the BETA for again?) But instead you run straight back to mmorpg/forums to post this thread.

It's everything Anet said they would deliver. Could there be more improvements? Yes. That does not mean this game is any worse without those suggestions. The core experience they said they would deliver is there. Whatever hype players have created might be a little higher than what Anet stated. 

It's everything I expected and nothing less. I'm glad Anet is working to make it even better than what it is.

Originally posted by Magnetia

It's everything Anet said they would deliver.

Indeed.

Personally the game exceeded my expectations, once it became a world rather then just a cool set of features.

Originally posted by StoneRoses

Originally posted by Xarnthal

I was expecting too much this weekend. I came in expecting a game with ground-breaking new PvE concepts with the dynamic events. I was expecting PvP that offered strategy and thinking, instead I got PvP that involved rolling your face on the keyboard and still killing people.

I guess new MMO players enjoy this style of combat. The thoughtless button-mashing where no matter what skill you mash in PvE it works. I heard people say the game was difficult but how can a game be difficult when the skill you use at the start of the game is just as viable 20 hours into the game?

 

I'll be playing because the PvP has potential, but the combat system in this game is awful. Anyone who likes it really needs to break it down and look at it. But to be completely honest, if this game were pay to play, I'd be skipping it the same as I am skipping TERA. At least TERA had an innovative combat system...

I'd love to see a poll on what people thought of the first beta weekend.

 

 

 

Sigh!

 

What do you mean by innovative? FPS style combat that has been used by Vindictus, Dragon Nest, or Chronicles of Spellborn.

 

Not really disagreeing with anyone in general, but Vindictus and Dragon Nest may seem similar to other games, but they're different in their own ways depending on classes you play.  

As a comparison, Vindictus has so far four classes on the US servers, right?  Fiona, Lann, Karok, and Evie.  The control set is very limited, but it's got its unique way of dealing out timing and combos.  Depending on how you play each character, you get use your combos to become more mobile by starting off with an empty attack out of range to close in with your high damage R attack at the end of your skill chain.  So depending on positioning, the melee versions of characters had a lot of ways to use their chains to their advantage, but the limitation was that they were stuck within their combo chains, similar to a fighting game in a lot of ways, you had to go through the sequence to get what you wanted.  There was no button to press to simply fire off any combo you chose.  You had to time it and decide which skill you had the most time to perform.  This was the case even for the magic classes and other classes.  Timing and positioning were pretty crucial to how you played the game.  Using an attack pull off a dodge, is an example of how you played within the set parameters of the game.  Very fun.  The game is less of an FPS and felt more like a co-op adventure game.  A bit more complex than a simple straight out FPS where you aim and shoot.  Without any reticles, you go by judgment of where you are and how far you think you can hit.  

Dragon Nest had four main classes that eventually branched into eight unique classes, so far on the US servers. Regardless of your class, this game has a very fun combo system, and if you've ever played the PvP and pulled someone into one of your attack chains, you'll be reminded of a fighting game in a lot of ways.  Yes, you have the skill recharge, similar to any other MMORPG with some form of mp management.  You are very dependent on aiming your attack to hit your target.  The classes I played were Acrobat and Elementalist.  The more attack-oriented classes had more mobility to start a chain into a series of attacks as opposed to the more spell-oriented classes, but there was a difference in power when you managed to capture someone as any spell caster compared to a quick melee or ranged character.  I cannot say how well the game pulls off allowing you to chain combos.  This game definitely offers something more than just to be labeled as FPS combat.  You do not have the ability to click exactly where your attacks will land when it comes to AoEs.  You have to learn the distance and the radius of your attack to aim them and have them hit properly.  

That said the games I described seem to have similarities on the surface, but their intricate controls and combat mechanics create a completely different experience.   I am certain that whatever style of combat TERA has, it may not deserve the title innovative, but it certainly should get some credit for moving in the direction of this genre and opening people up to accepting Guild Wars 2's combat controls.  

Guild Wars 2's combat pretty much can only be discussed within the scope of the beta weekends, so there isn't much judgment that can be made on a game that isn't even released.  I found that the combat can be more or less intricate than you make it to be.  There is simple button-mashing, which can work very well for you probably for the rest of your gaming days, but there are also ways to manage more advanced AI that don't let you hit them.  One thing I noticed when difficulty rose in an area were more dodging NPCs and unique skills fired off by champions.  There are places where simply firing off your cooldowns will not work out.  Timing certain skills/dodges for very specific situations is not button mashing; otherwise, you would degrade typing on your keyboard to the same category as button mashing.  Cross-profession combos have been discussed more than once by others.  The game's cross-profession combos are a beauty to see in action considering all the different events that may be occurring when you fire a bullet into a static electricity field.  The combat in this game is rewarding and interactive.  I've noticed that after the beta weekend, when I actually checked the wiki and looked up what my weapon skills did, what traits were available, and what skills I had not used yet or dismissed as useless, I completely missed the various ways I could have helped others from dropping like flies in certain events.  There's a lot of complex effects that I did not register when I was in the beta.  The combat was cooler than my original impression.  When I watched other player videos, I felt that there were things that I'd like to try out now that I had no thought of before.  I feel that it's easy to get into the combat in the game, but it is not easy to learn all the various nuances available in combat.  Every new layer of combat just uncovers more possibilities.  It's not just about killing that target.  It's about killing that target while using ally's effect, so you can prevent them from taking damage.  It's about learning to push an enemy out of the way, so you can rescue a friend from a downed state rather than a defeated state.  It's learning to use an attack to shrug off a fatal attack.  

The way GW2 changes as you move further through the game is amazing.  I was watching from the sidelines and was impressed by the amount of media available from the press, the interaction of the developers with the community, so I pre-purchased the game based on the faith that there was too much investment on the part of the developers for this all to be just smoke and mirrors.  It definitely felt like a game I would want to play after the last beta weekend.  I experienced less issues than others.  My original reservations on the game was that the pacing of the game seemed a little too slow compared to Vindictus and Dragon Nest, but the timing of the game and pacing of the combat makes the game was somehow just the right pace to still enjoy since you have mobility and consequences of wasting a skills built into the game.  I played a Guardian solely in PvE during the beta weekend, and I found it surprisingly mobile compared to my original perceptions of game.  I moved where I wanted without any difficulty.  I could move reposition enemies wherever I wanted.  The controls were more responsive than I had originally imagined, and the timing for attacks were acceptable.  

Best Combat Evar.

Seriously nothing compares to the depth of the combat and if you think it sucks then I dont know what to say.  Easily 10x better then Tera's and 100x better then normal hotbar MMO combat.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Magnetia

It's everything Anet said they would deliver.

 

Indeed.

Personally the game exceeded my expectations, once it became a world rather then just a cool set of features.

This. The game has been hyped by pvpers for years, so I was rather sceptical. I expected GW1 pvp, which I am admittedly not a big fan of. The BWE blew me away! I love the ability to switch weapons in combat, the maps, dodging, the class/trait system, wvw, etc.

I haven't been this excited about a game in years! So as far as I am concerned, the game deserves all the hype it gets.

Just as its not paranoia if, "they," really are out to get you, its not hype if, "they," deliver on their promises.

Of course they never promised that everyone would like the game.

That's because, despite a small outcry, the game is meeting the majority of the hype it generated.  Some people are obviously less than pleased by this, but it's good news for ALL gamers if they let go of their prejudices.  GW2 is not some exclusive club.

Obiously the game is beta and I'm not going to make any final judgement - the game disappointed me a bit however.

While I appreciate the dynamic events idea and it is at least a step forward - it has a somewhat cyclic feel to it (the 'region' switches into different states and depending on that certain 'quests/tasks' become available or no), but it didn't seem like those dynamic events interact much between each other and usually had a certain pattern ending in a larger boss mob. In short while I appreciated the fact that the world changes partially it still wouldn't give me the feeling I'd be able to influence that region really. I'd enjoy if a certain dynamic event only becomes available if the players managed to save some other local towns from an invasion or that events would have several sub-tasks that would need to be done simultaniously (some have to fight back invaders, others have to secure some caravan of supplies and afterwards build some fortifications..). Anything that requires more coordination of multiple groups.

No classic open world pvp is a bit disappointing and I'd hope they'll possibly add a server where we're not restricted.

I really liked the 'painted' artwork, but the 3d-graphics are ok, but nothing breathtaking. But this isn't the reason for me to play an MMO, even though I enjoy titles that try to push the genre a bit more.

Combat feels pretty good - I somewhat miss the roles (tank, heal,dd) for group play however. I don't enjoy it if a class / player is locked down eternally to a single role, but being able to take those roles for group play / specialising in that area is something I simply prefer. I know of all the problems this concept often caused, but I actually did enjoy the old days of wow when you needed a lot of preperation, the right setup to have a chance to finish a raid like the old naxxaramas, serpent shrine, aq40 & co - after you suceeded it was much more rewarding imho. But this is a personal preference and I'm aware that it excluded many players from experiencing that content. Similar the quests in EQ that required the efforts of a large guild were really rewarding for me.

The difficulty seemed pretty good - I didn't have that I'm invincible feeling many mmo's give unless you're doing group content.

I only had a fairly limited experience of the demo and fair chances that I missed some things. The beta weekend stilled my curiosity, but I'll likely wait until the release before I give the game a second try. The lack of PVE raids is something that bothers me most.

Originally posted by StriderXed

Originally posted by Xarnthal

I love how I'm a troll because I expected more out of the game.

 

It's really rather simple, I don't think it's as amazing as some here seem to think. I've been playing MMO's since EQ1 and when the dev's from ANet told me the game is going to seperate itself from other MMO's I was assuming they were telling the truth.

But after spending a good 20+ hours this weekend hiding in my basement, I've come to the conclusion that so far it's not anything that different. The RvR is not as good as DAoC, the eSport style of PvP is not for me really as I get bored playing the arena, and I thought the PvE was sub-par at best.

Maybe it is because I've come to enjoy the sandbox style games and the games that this MMO community does not like(unforgiving UO/Darkfall style games). But I thought the combat wasn't that great. To be honest I'm really surprised that people love the fact that you can double tap a button to dodge... like this hasn't been done since NES games.

But whatever, I'm just a troll with an invalid opinion because I don't agree with the same people who swore SWTOR is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

edit: Fixed in a poll for all those who hate reading on forums(...)

Let's be honest. You don't expect more out of gw2. As a matter of fact you don't give a damn about GW2. If you did, you would have posted these "issues" in the suggestions thread at the gw2 forums during the weekend. You would have been helping  Arena Net to make a better game. (What was the BETA for again?) But instead you run straight back to mmorpg/forums to post this thread.

Double Tap a button to Dodge....since NES, no one has ever thought of putting it in an MMO

To me thats is ground breaking, who the hell would have thought that Double Tapping works in an MMO, just like Jumping, who the hell thought after UO that jumping would work in an MMO, how about Swimming, such an simple concept, who would have thought that it would work in an MMO.

Ideas after its implemented is easy to look at and said it was easy and done before. But actually thinking that lets do double tapping in an MMO is totally thinking outside of the box. The BOX of an MMO Genre.

I would think that FPS cover mechanics would be the next challenge to be implemented into an MMO, is Cover Mechanic new?? nope, its in every FPS,  except SWTOR i don't know if i saw Cover mechanic in any other MMO.

With the ability to attack while moving, casting without an Mana Bar, has it been done before?? In one form or another Yes

Tanks without Taunts, Heal without Healers do they exist ? Maybe,

Questing without an HUB? Maybe

Personal Stories that branches based on decisions and an Home instance that changes with your decision?? Dont know

In an MMO??? Not all of it

To be honest, most of what was shown in Press Beta is exactly what everyone experienced during the BWE, we saw the same settings, with the same number of skills available, same character , same races. I don't know how someone can over expect something that wasn't there. When everything they said they put in is actually in the game.

Unless you went in blindly, but still how can someone pre-purchase something blindly when there are so much videos and actually developer QandA available with a simple Google search.

Originally posted by Lucioon

Double Tap a button to Dodge....since NES, no one has ever thought of putting it in an MMO

To me thats is ground breaking, who the hell would have thought that Double Tapping works in an MMO, just like Jumping, who the hell thought after UO that jumping would work in an MMO, how about Swimming, such an simple concept, who would have thought that it would work in an MMO.

Ideas after its implemented is easy to look at and said it was easy and done before. But actually thinking that lets do double tapping in an MMO is totally thinking outside of the box. The BOX of an MMO Genre.

To be fair, it's been in Age of Conan for 4 years, so it's not quite as groundbreaking as you say....though the double-tap dodging is both more meaningful and fluid in GW2

Personally, I feel the BWE just reinforced the "hype" (or better termed, excitement). 

For me, it was somewhere between "what I expected" and "better than sliced bread".  It was better than I expected (but maybe not quite as good a sliced bread!).  It was the most fun I've had in a game, ever.  Especially the WvWvW.  To me, Anet delivered on all of their promises and then some and while the game needs some tweaks and a little more polish, it's a fantastic game, IMO.  If you don't agree with that assessment, then maybe I'll see you in another game sometime.

BTW, I answered that you're just a troll because I thought it was funny so the poll is a little skewed now.  :)  I don't think you were necessarily trolling, but I always do wonder why someone feels the urge to start a thread about how they don't like such and such game....

Originally posted by Eudaimon

Originally posted by Lucioon

Double Tap a button to Dodge....since NES, no one has ever thought of putting it in an MMO

To me thats is ground breaking, who the hell would have thought that Double Tapping works in an MMO, just like Jumping, who the hell thought after UO that jumping would work in an MMO, how about Swimming, such an simple concept, who would have thought that it would work in an MMO.

Ideas after its implemented is easy to look at and said it was easy and done before. But actually thinking that lets do double tapping in an MMO is totally thinking outside of the box. The BOX of an MMO Genre.

To be fair, it's been in Age of Conan for 4 years, so it's not quite as groundbreaking as you say....though the double-tap dodging is both more meaningful and fluid in GW2

I have played AOC as well, man if you didn't mention it I already forgotten that it existed. It was just not as memorable for some reason. I can still barely remember dodging in AOC.

But still, lots of ideas are reused , it doesn't make it bad, but if you direct copy it then its not as useful or evolutionary, I just saw an episode of new millionaires. Guess what made them Millionaires, stuffs that already existed, but they were able to think alittle bit outside the box and just by doing that one little thing differently, they made themselves young millionaires.

I forgot the details, but there was two inventors, one basically took over used baskets and added some paint, made some changes to the sides to act like an lego and boom, you got an instant IKEA like bookshelf. 

She didn't reinvent bookshelves, she didn't reinvent baskets, she didn't invent lego blocks. She just combined them three together and made herself a wealthy young person.

Same with croc shoes, and toilet seat cover, no one reinvented toile seats, or covers, they just combined the two.

If we look around, most of the stuff we already have is just another version of something we already own.

Smart Phones is just phones that is combined with Lap tops, Lap tops is just an more portable desk top, desk top is just another smaller version of those old giant computing machines.

I feel this meets the hype in most cases. For me, I have very high expectations ( I bought CE) and they were met and exceeded.  

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Xarnthal

... but the combat system in this game is awful. Anyone who likes it really needs to break it down and look at it. ...

Uhm, what? That makes no sense whatsoever.

You don't like it, that is fine but that does not make it a bad system.

I thought it was pretty fun myself.

I have broken it down and looked at it.  The conclusion I have come to after both breaking it down and 30 some odd hours of play testing is that anyone who thinks button mashing in GW2 is effective is awful at anayluzing game systems.

I haven't played the game, but I just saw RipperX's video and it looks pretty incredible to me.

the bwe and stresstest was the most fun ive had with games in the last 10 years

I don't follow hype, can't vote