Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Asuran24

Is that a bad thigns to reward players with loot, lore, and more info for playing thru content in the game? Gear will always play into the desire to play raids, dungeons, or other content, but the fun or challenge is what makes you want to play it. You also have many raiders that will go back thru pror content that is completely outdated for lore, as well as loot that they want (most that go for loot are collectors not looking for better gear.). Looking at pvping players revel in being the best pvper, getting titles, even fighting against other players of equal skill to them, but the gear you can get gives an added incentive to keep it feeling worthwhile to do longer than otherwise might be. It is the same with dungeons in games you might be quests, and content in the game the first time thru for the fun as well as challenge, but it is the rewards you gain or can gain that makes it worthwhile to play thru it more. Now if they made the raiding like a version of DE's in that the encounters can actually change, scale, and such things the players would need less of a incentive to replay content. Yet you also do not need the loot to give the players in any cotent any kind of advantage, but merely show they have played thru this or that, and give them a feeling of acomplishment when they finsih content. Getting unique vanity gear in raids, pvp, and open world activities is not a bad idea to give distinition to players for achiving things in their chosen playstyle, i know many players that could careless hwo good or bad a item is if it looks amazing or in a style they like.

It's a very bad thing when it's exclusive to one play style.  If a game is going to include multiple play styles, then it need to offer not only multiple types of content, but equitable rewards for their efforts.  Too many developers may offer the variety in content, but then they compare the difficulty rather than making it relative to the play style in determining rewards, let alone the usualy disparity in the quality of said content compared to what raiders get.  How many games out there wrap up gear / AA or high level crafting progression into the raiding game while offering nothing in comparison to other play styles?  Virtually all of them do at this point.  I find it very disturbing that a niche audience that is addicted to niche game play has and is currently dominating the genre.

First that is only if the game makes raiding the best way to progress in content (via leveling or gearing without stat gear, or gear differnce in strength then no need.),  but with how gw works that would be moot as gear will be either vanity based or largely interchangable. In a system of gearing where gear would be largely interchangable with each other, and only the looks of said gear would be tied to the content, then it would be merely the desire to get a look of gear not a better item that would propel people into content. One of the reasns the main mmos that do raiding have raiding as a main feature of end game is that the best stat gear is gained from it, but gw is not a stat gear game as such raiding could be a set of content for those that like that. Yet would having better look or unique looks make pvpers or small group pvers want to raid for that looks? Yes it would, btu the difficulty would be merely from how well you play, not from having inferior gear that bars you from the raid. One of the major factors fo disallowing players from raiding is the gear needed to raid, but gw at it's core has done away with that factor, and so even having parts of the crafting or other parts of the game attatched to raiding would not deter anyone but those that hate to raid or pve, and yet having anythign tethered to a frm of content does the same like for pvping it makes those that hate pvping being detered then. The quality is more based off of the fact of how many players you have in the content as paying customers, not the fact of how good the gear is, and in gw not having a sub this is less of an issue as what we pay is only paid once till an expantion come out.

It would not remain that way.  There isn't a game running that started with or added raiding content later in the development cycle that didn't cave to raider whining about having the best gear progression in game and screwing every other play style.  It happened in EQ and EQ2 and WoW and even DAoC.  Once they get their greedy little hands into a game's direction, forever do they dominate it's destiny.

I voted "yes" because I do like instanced raiding, but it is yet unclear to me if I personally will get my "fix" for the same level of satisfaction I get from raiding with things like the open-world elite dynamic events and large scale meta events.

 

I answered yes since I have benn doing basically just that in dcuo for the past few months. Running raids for style alone (which in a round about way does help my toon get stronger) either or way I realize that style can be a very important aspect of the meta game and there is still a rewarding feeling in getting a style that is rare/unique.

Anet has said that the story of the game will come out in Dungeons.  Again, I hope they have a far more advanced version ofdungeons, but I"d like for them to stick with keeping the story stuff in one place.  

Again, this is the diselusion we need to wipe ourselves from.  Initially there were no "raids" only ways to bring more than one party into a dungeon.  

This was so lower level parties could still do higher level stuff with mroe people.  The raid content was what companies did to mutate this concept and make it about consistent gear grind.  

Anet has hte potential to improve on the process.  Multi-teared dungeons that revolve around 2 or 3 teams of dungioneers in communication would rock.  Like story centric dynbamic content events. 

From my experience, when I obtain all gear I needed from a particular raid in WoW, I stop running the raid (usually).

Maybe if I had a guild with some real life friends with whom I would have fun running the raids, then yes, I would proly do that. In such case, I would run the raids even if there were no rewards at all...completely drop free raids. It would not be cosmetic rewards that would keep me interested in raiding. I think it either has to be great fun or rewarding for players who put the effort into mastering the tacs and organizing large group of people.

I mean GW 2 is all about playing without material rewards, so why not to include raids in the portfolio of available activities.

Only a little minority of people care about cosmetics in mmos...it`s mostly the roleplayers I d say (subjective opinion).

 

 

 

I voted no since, I do not believe the reason for the existence of raids is needed in this game.  Raids exist for one reason, to keep subscriptions of the top 1-5% of players rolling in. 

If you were provided with a gaming experience valued at or above the asking price, particularly in BtP, then you should be happy and will probably purchase your next bit of content.  If not you won't.  If you aren't hanging around and utilizing assets while you  are waiting, even better.  So again, 'working' in instanced dungeons, killing sprites, as uber leet players scream that others suck isn't in any part of my dictionaries definition of 'fun'.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Asuran24

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Asuran24

Is that a bad thigns to reward players with loot, lore, and more info for playing thru content in the game? Gear will always play into the desire to play raids, dungeons, or other content, but the fun or challenge is what makes you want to play it. You also have many raiders that will go back thru pror content that is completely outdated for lore, as well as loot that they want (most that go for loot are collectors not looking for better gear.). Looking at pvping players revel in being the best pvper, getting titles, even fighting against other players of equal skill to them, but the gear you can get gives an added incentive to keep it feeling worthwhile to do longer than otherwise might be. It is the same with dungeons in games you might be quests, and content in the game the first time thru for the fun as well as challenge, but it is the rewards you gain or can gain that makes it worthwhile to play thru it more. Now if they made the raiding like a version of DE's in that the encounters can actually change, scale, and such things the players would need less of a incentive to replay content. Yet you also do not need the loot to give the players in any cotent any kind of advantage, but merely show they have played thru this or that, and give them a feeling of acomplishment when they finsih content. Getting unique vanity gear in raids, pvp, and open world activities is not a bad idea to give distinition to players for achiving things in their chosen playstyle, i know many players that could careless hwo good or bad a item is if it looks amazing or in a style they like.

It's a very bad thing when it's exclusive to one play style.  If a game is going to include multiple play styles, then it need to offer not only multiple types of content, but equitable rewards for their efforts.  Too many developers may offer the variety in content, but then they compare the difficulty rather than making it relative to the play style in determining rewards, let alone the usualy disparity in the quality of said content compared to what raiders get.  How many games out there wrap up gear / AA or high level crafting progression into the raiding game while offering nothing in comparison to other play styles?  Virtually all of them do at this point.  I find it very disturbing that a niche audience that is addicted to niche game play has and is currently dominating the genre.

First that is only if the game makes raiding the best way to progress in content (via leveling or gearing without stat gear, or gear differnce in strength then no need.),  but with how gw works that would be moot as gear will be either vanity based or largely interchangable. In a system of gearing where gear would be largely interchangable with each other, and only the looks of said gear would be tied to the content, then it would be merely the desire to get a look of gear not a better item that would propel people into content. One of the reasns the main mmos that do raiding have raiding as a main feature of end game is that the best stat gear is gained from it, but gw is not a stat gear game as such raiding could be a set of content for those that like that. Yet would having better look or unique looks make pvpers or small group pvers want to raid for that looks? Yes it would, btu the difficulty would be merely from how well you play, not from having inferior gear that bars you from the raid. One of the major factors fo disallowing players from raiding is the gear needed to raid, but gw at it's core has done away with that factor, and so even having parts of the crafting or other parts of the game attatched to raiding would not deter anyone but those that hate to raid or pve, and yet having anythign tethered to a frm of content does the same like for pvping it makes those that hate pvping being detered then. The quality is more based off of the fact of how many players you have in the content as paying customers, not the fact of how good the gear is, and in gw not having a sub this is less of an issue as what we pay is only paid once till an expantion come out.

It would not remain that way.  There isn't a game running that started with or added raiding content later in the development cycle that didn't cave to raider whining about having the best gear progression in game and screwing every other play style.  It happened in EQ and EQ2 and WoW and even DAoC.  Once they get their greedy little hands into a game's direction, forever do they dominate it's destiny.

Yet still the fact is that in gw there is really no gear progression, and so that is a large factor os the game being in a different standard compared to any other game that is based around gear progression. Every game prior to gw2 has had some form of gear progression, that had a raiding set up, and in that fact that they haad a gear progresion it made sense to give some or the best rewards to those playing the highest tier of content. Yet in a game without gear progression the fact is that either the gear will have a interchangeable usage with other gear from the rest of the game, or would be completely vanity as such only the fact that some of the most unique or different styles of gear looks would what might be dominated by needing to raid. All of tthe games you stated have that fetal flaw that they use a gear based progression, which makes the game lop sides at the end with certain playstyles giving the best rewards, but ggw2 does not have that flaw at all as gear would most likely be either interchangable or compeltely vanity based. Also most companies that cave to a group are caving to a majority of the playerbase that seek something, and so are cattering to their dominate playerbasse (or most vocal.) which is how it should be that the majority in a game that you pay for are being appealed to, or you fail as a developer/company plain as day. They would also need to make a huge overhaul to their gear system to use a gear progression based system in raiding thaat actually uses stat based gear that would actually make it the best method of getting the best gear in game.

I hate to burst your bubble, but it doesn't matter what you support, there is no loot gear progression in GW2, if you  are looking for that then TORtanic awaits you, all you raiders said TOR was your game, go play it  because the only thing you will get on GW2 is constant beat downs in WvWvW. We do have some story mode dungeons so you can feel like you matter, but you dont.

Great poll OP.

But you forgot to include more poll options.

Currently i would not run a dungeon or raid, unless i would need it to level up, or to have fun with my friends, in wich i would accept beer and pizza in exchange for having to go through that pain.

Thats a used up formula, a tired old man beaten too many times by his old lady, just to convince her to let him watch the sports channel instead of going out to feed the ducklings.

The mmo concept of dungeon and raid has to evolve. This tired old formula should had stopped in WoW pre-TBC, where it bloomed and grew to its full splendor. But it didnt. It spread like the plague of Zul´Gurub onto all the other forthcoming mmos.

Is gear scaling the only reason you will put yourself over and over and over inside the same scenario just to see a shinny drop and hope its your turn to get it?? When you get to end game and you kill the final baddie, thats the only reason that makes you do that all over again...gear???? No one finds that annoying? Silly?

I do.

This dynamic events boss looks fun. Starts at 33:22 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jmTJj-NX4g&feature=channel&list=UL

 

It also seems like there is some complex secondary objectives (the thing with closing the portals and taking care of the trash mobs) but its hard to tell since this is from the french beta.

No, there's a plethora of raider orientated games, let gw2 be for the rest of us.

Now some people will make an argument that if you have raids, they might shift more boxes but....
1 raiders are a very tiny % of mmo players
2 why would they raid in gw2 when they can raid in all these other games for "phatlewt"
3 which brings me to - raiding just isn't that much fun, its a second job (or job replacement), the fun for most of those that raid cones from the "phatlewt" at the end of it.

Originally posted by dontadow

Anet has said that the story of the game will come out in Dungeons.  Again, I hope they have a far more advanced version ofdungeons, but I"d like for them to stick with keeping the story stuff in one place.  

Again, this is the diselusion we need to wipe ourselves from.  Initially there were no "raids" only ways to bring more than one party into a dungeon.  

This was so lower level parties could still do higher level stuff with mroe people.  The raid content was what companies did to mutate this concept and make it about consistent gear grind.  

Anet has hte potential to improve on the process.  Multi-teared dungeons that revolve around 2 or 3 teams of dungioneers in communication would rock.  Like story centric dynbamic content events. 

Thats a great concept, Since Dungeons in GW2 already have 3 different explorable modes, why can't they just allow players to explore all three modes consecutively.

15 player raid, one dungeon, 3 passages, you decide how you want to split the groups. Since there is no healer, no tanks, if you have extremely skilled players that can tackle the bosses with just 3 players, you can have 6 , 6 and 3

Each requiring another to activate a switch that unlocks the final raid boss event, that requires all 15 to take down.

That would be one heck of a raid event.

 

 

Originally posted by wowfan1996

 

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Those who can, raid, those who can't, play GW2.

---

Your words are a fine example of why I don't want gear progression in my next MMO. I don't want to pay for a questionable pleasure of playing with people who think they are superior to the rest of humanity just because they regularly group up to beat scripted encounters in a video game.
 

 

Taken totally out of context. Of course you omitted the part of the post where I was defending raiding from being attacked by someone who was very opinionated and making statements about raiding that only focuessed on why peopel hate it, but not why people like it.

And we won't even get into the fact that elitism isn't a result of raiding. it's a personality problem. Those same elitists will be in GW2. What are you going to blme it on when you run into the same people who loard titles over you in GW2? 

And even look at your description of raids. "Scripted encounters" Yes, they are, but negative spin much?

I could call W v W v W a zergfest / rezfest

I think Banks had a great idea: end-game "raids" that are ramped-up open-world encounters. I would imagine ANET is already putting this in the game. The problem is that this kind of raid cannot satisfy anyone who wants there to be exclusive, superior content available only to a select few in the game. ANET's phiosophy is obviously about inclusivity, not exclusivity.

I would support PvE raids in the sense that they already exist as open-world, inclusive events, even if they were instanced like the WvWvW battleground is instanced. IOW, anyone can zone in and join the fight and be a part of the effort to take down a huge PvE boss, and get the same reward at the end.

I'm fine with doing content that takes time and effort just for cosmetic rewards. I'd prefer not to have traditional instance based raiding in GW2 though. Not because I hate raiding per se (although it's getting a bit old), but because I feel that there are plenty of MMOs that already focus on raiding and do a great job at that. Why reinvent the wheel when the developer resources that would go into raiding could be spend on other content that doesn't involve holding hands with 10-25 people for 2-3 hours?

I, a self-admitted GW2 fanboy and proud of it, would say yes, with the following caveats...

 

Doesn't break balance, and doesn't cave in to demands for balance changes due to raid content.

Doesn't begin any type of progression treadmill.

 

Yeah... that's it basically. If a group of ten or so have content they can run that fits into and sticks with the design pholosophy of GW2 I have no issues with that at all. Right now there are five man raids, (known as explorer mode dungeons)... if it were possible for ANet to create for example a ten man instance that still can take the new active semi-chaotic combat into account and produce exciting gameplay, why not?

However, the combat system would make this a challenge, so it's a low priority, if one at all. Remember, there's no trinity, which has made larger raids easy to design.

Sure.  I'm all for the adventure myself.

i voted no, simply because i have raided just about all content in EQ2 and quite honestly im bored of, if i wanted end game raiding there are plenty of games out there both old and new that offer this type of game play.

i would much rather they put all the time and effort it would need to make end game raid zones into developing the dynamic events system even more, some of these look like they could be a type of raid anyway as they scale up with more people but anyone can join in which im all for, also would like them to add content that everyone can enjoy not just a limited few so apart from DE's more dungeons/instances.

 

For me personally cosmetic gear is much more important than stat gear. Why? Because stat gear you replace all the time and it's all +1, +1, +1.... Gear that makes you look badass = pure win.

But no, I don't want raiding in any form. Dungeons of 4-6 people is perfectly fine. Raids are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

BORING!

Imagine a game with 100 6 man dungeons that were fully fleshed out with a few branches for added variety. Add a random dungeon finder and you got me hooked.

 

Given GW2 design, this might be a possibility down the road.