Trending Games | Rift | ArcheAge | Firefall | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,775,217 Users Online:0
Games:722  Posts:6,189,895
ArenaNet | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 08/28/12)  | Pub:NCSoft
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:$49.99 | Pay Type:Free | Monthly Fee:n/a
System Req: PC Mac | Out of date info? Let us know!

Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » Exactly how are chests that can only be unlocked via buying keys in the Cash shop NOT Pay 2 win?

15 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Last Search
292 posts found
  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/07/12 8:13:33 PM#141
Originally posted by BilboDoggins

Still not a single valid response with a definitive answer on why this isnt Pay 2 win.  Just 12 pages of opinions and fanboy rants but nothing concrete and factual.

 

I'm still waiting....

Since you don't know what's in the final game, you don't have a definitive answer for why it IS P2W.  So, wait on that...

  dontadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1045

4/07/12 8:14:08 PM#142
Originally posted by dudeduder45
Originally posted by BilboDoggins

Still not a single valid response with a definitive answer on why this isnt Pay 2 win.  Just 12 pages of opinions and fanboy rants but nothing concrete and factual.

 

I'm still waiting....

There can't be a definitive answer because nobody knows what will be in the final cash shop.  Your thread topic is purely speculation because we don't know that the keys can only be bought in the store.

The answer

As usual, i'll start off by defining the word "winning".  Because to pay to win, we must all agree that there are "win" conditions. To have win conditions you must have "lose" conditions.  This means that people must loose in order for those to pay to have a method to win.

As I've stated before, Runes of Magic is a pay to win game.  You can not do specific content without constructing items from the cashshop for armor to do the high end dungeons.  If I do not have such items, I lose.  If i have such items, i achieve the highest status in the game and thus win. Winning being defined as doing the high end dungeons successfully.

IN Guild Wars 2, I do not know what hte win conditions are.  From the reviews, previews and my own playtesting (pax last year) it did not appear that ther ewas a specific item I needed that prevented me from doing any content.  I have yet to see anyone use a cash item on any of the successful dungeon, dynamic events or heart quests I have seen. 

Now, unless this content is hidden or unrevealed so to prove my theory in correct, I will lay into theory that there is no location or content in the game, particuarlly endgame, that requires a cashshop item to reach.  

Thus, by definition, if doing end game content is winning, there is no way to pay to win. 

Arena has been clear to say nothing boosts stats in the game.  This is specific, as it allows them to design an encounter that is difficult and not receive complaints that only a stat boosting cash shop item can pass the encounter. 

Karma allows users to buy an item 6 minutes faster per hour of gameplay than someone without the item.  Experience points allow a user to level 18 minutes faster than other players.  IF someone were to spend 167 dollars on xp postions, they would reach maximum level 24 hours before a person who did not spend that much.  Almost 200 dollars would only buy the person 1 full day over you.  

Let's look at the Redorb.  It takes a player from the defeated state to the downed state.  Even in pvp, it has been stated that a player should  finish off the other player and not just leave them downed. Because the orb automatically puts the player back in a downed state, that would mean that the downing player will have an advantage to quickly kill the player again.  Such an item would only be worth it in situations where the buyer does not want to run back to a location and has a high percentage chance of not dying again.  Yes, they could take the risk, but $3 on a low percentage chance that I can get up from downed is a high risk bet.  Particuarlly in a game where reviving is quick and you will probably die again a few minute4s later (thus is the nature of pvp).  

In closing, this is all subjective.  Someone leaked screenshots from a build of the game, it has since gone through 2 more builds and being ever changed.  We are all speculating.  my goal is not to speculate about what has been seen but try to agree on a concrete defintiion of winning, pay2win and what does not constitute a pay2win environment.  

 

 

  DanitaKusor

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/17/09
Posts: 528

4/07/12 8:15:01 PM#143
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

The Enlightened take things Lightly

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/07/12 8:16:45 PM#144
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

Same information all the detractors have..... their crystal balls.  If they'd stop rubbing them, maybe we wouldn't get so many premature conclusions.

  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

4/07/12 8:17:48 PM#145
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

This was already answered in this thread...

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Nilenya

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 335

4/07/12 8:17:55 PM#146
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

There should be some kind of law against using such flamboyant expressions when it comes to nerd raging like this. I mean, dont you feel yourself cringe just a little when you read that?  Afterall these so called apologists are just responding to the inaccurate statements of the Opening post. -

Being wrong, and insisting on your argument none the less, is not really a great basis for revolution and dissent, unless youre into blind fanaticism... oh wait - *lol*

  Deolus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 391

4/07/12 8:18:45 PM#147
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

 

  garretth

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 315

4/07/12 8:19:58 PM#148

This discussion is premature.   We do not yet know what kind of items will be in the cash shop nor do we know what items will drop within the game.

If you are interested in the game, and it is worth the box price to you, then play it.   You'll have a lot of company.

 

If there are items in the cash shop that the players feel give an extreme advantage then don't worry, none of us will be shy about sharing our feelings with Anet.

It will all work out. 

  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

4/07/12 8:20:46 PM#149
Originally posted by Deolus
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

 

If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  User Deleted
4/07/12 8:23:31 PM#150
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Deolus
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

 

If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.

What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/07/12 8:23:35 PM#151
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

Play -> With Guild-> Earn influence->RvRvR Boosts.

Do both still can't stack em.

 

If your guild is big there is no need to pay regardless lol. It'll be a useless time sink to try to buy gems and sell gems for Gold.

You do get a tome of influence for pre ordering. Also influence percantage is included in what you buy with gold, I don't think you get literal influence.

Can you stack those influence drinks that you can get in game or not. Could yu abuse them?

I don't recall influnce granting the ability of not getting ass whooping, just gives boost to that keep only and those within it.

Someone tried the p2w with sieges.

Someone does both then I wonder is it enough to take out 2 servers alone, ha yea right.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  DanitaKusor

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/17/09
Posts: 528

4/07/12 8:23:55 PM#152
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

This was already answered in this thread...

Really I must be blind then...

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us.

What exactly are the RvRvR boosts that players can get by converting cash in influence?

The Enlightened take things Lightly

  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

4/07/12 8:25:43 PM#153
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->RvRvR boosts

Very clear pay2win in RvRvR

What RvRvR boosts?

What concrete information do you have that these even exist? 

This was already answered in this thread...

Really I must be blind then...

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us.

What exactly are the RvRvR boosts that players can get by converting cash in influence?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Influence 

 

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/07/12 8:27:50 PM#154
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

/snip

What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

  garretth

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 315

4/07/12 8:28:38 PM#155
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Deolus
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

 

If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.


I disagree with you. 

I believe that Anet will build a decent game.  GW had a cash shop and Anet handled it with aplomb. 

Once we have all the facts, then we can argue the merits of the CS with some integrity, honesty and sincerity.  

Your arguements are winey, immature and illogical.

Save up your angst until after the game is available.   THEN present your case.

  Deolus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 391

4/07/12 8:29:08 PM#156
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Deolus
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

 

If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.


I'm sure both Anet and NCSoft agree that success for this game depends on box/digital sales and not what is offered in th CS. I'm sure they would not want to jeopardize that.

 

  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

4/07/12 8:30:32 PM#157
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

/snip

What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

Finally you have moved off of your hard and fast postition of NO advantages to NEGLIGIBLE advantages.  A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a step...

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/07/12 8:31:20 PM#158
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Deolus
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gotha
Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't think it's P2W but games that do this annoy the piss out of me.

Right now making a fuss about stuff sold in the cash shop is a good thing.  Player responce kept eve from butchering their game with  cash shop items, we can do the same here.

EXACTLY, the Anet aplogists are doing nothing and think they are noble for it.  Standing around while an appalling cash shop ruins a potentially good MMO.  Change is brought about by rebellion and dissent, not looking the other way and blind fanaticism...

Ah, so I had you all wrong. You actually LOVE GW2 but are worried that the cash shop will spoil your enjoyment of it...

Well take it from me, you have nothing to worry about, send Anet your money on April 10th :)

 

If you followed my posts for the last several months you would know I was once on the bandwagon, at least partially.  This cash shop, as it currently stands, is a travesty to gaming in my opinion.

And yes, the time to argue for a decent game is BEFORE it is released, not blindly assume the accountants have not taken over.  Which unfortunately they clearly have.

What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

I'm telling he should know that by now, it's that bait a switch. Ish like that does make me press the ignore button.

It's been stress to [death] I think we might have kille death itself by now with the word Not p2w and p2 get an advantage over those who don't spend cash.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/07/12 8:32:36 PM#159
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

/snip

What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

Finally you have moved off of your hard and fast postition of NO advantages to NEGLIGIBLE advantages.  A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a step...

And if you think it's worth starting dozens of threads over, then you've only gone backwards.

  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

4/07/12 8:35:11 PM#160
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

/snip

What part of not giving a statistical advantage do you not understand? 

The part where "ANet is the devil" is not mentioned.  I've already explained that these so-called advantages are negligible.  People only assume that if they pass, ANet will dump huge advantages in the cash shop, even though there's nothing to support that line of thinking.

Finally you have moved off of your hard and fast postition of NO advantages to NEGLIGIBLE advantages.  A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a step...

And if you think it's worth starting dozens of threads over, then you've only gone backwards.

Well, if you are not going to draw the line at NO advantage, then where do you draw the line?  Negligible, miniscule, small, tiny, medium, moderate, etc.???

Give Anet an inch and they will take a yard, it is a cold hard economic fact...

And I have not started a SINGLE thread over it.  I just join in the debate.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

15 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Last Search