Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

 

Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

What if they are only filled with rare cosmetic items?

Does anyone know what wil be in them? I believe the contents will be desireable, but will they offer an advantage in PVP? No one knows.

As far as what's in them now, I really don't care about what's going on surrounding cash shop items mechanics and costs in Beta, Expenses are kept down so as not to be a deterrent from testing, and drop/loot tables for the chests will also be controlled duing beta.

What we see today, is almost assuredly not what we will see live. So does that mean P2W? Maybe. Maybe not.

The fact is that no one knows and now these cash shop arguements are only about brow beating eachother until someone finally gives up and changes sides in their opinions.

This leads me to one question.

Hows that working out for you?

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

 

Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

The keys are available in-game through vendors and rare drops.

Next.

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

 

Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

Easy to defend mate.

1) For all we know, the keys may not end up in the final product given that there was the strickest DNA placed on not allowing ANYONE (who were in beta) to talk about the cash shop in game. But let us assume that it DOES end up in the game..then we come to no 2.

2) It is most likely, looking at GW, that keys will be available from mob drops. If not then we come to no. 3..

3) Gems can be exchanged for gold. It may result in a bit of grinding, but in the end of the day, you cannot state that buying keys with rl money is Pay 2 win as they keys will be available for EVERYONE regardless of whether they do have rl money to pay for them or not.

4) We still have yet to see what is inside those mystical chests. For all we know, there might only be like 5% chance of finding a perfect salvage kit lol..

Is this logical enough for you mate? If not, please define what the word "logical" is.

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

But we already have that, in the form of many of the Korean MMO grinders.  Introduce grind and allow to reduce grind by paying money.  When Anet said they were going to make a game without grind did we all honestly think they meant you had to pay EXTRA to remove the grind?  Thats not how I remember the discussion on these boards a few months ago...

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by BilboDoggins

I would like to see how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that chests which can only be unlocked by buying keys from the cash shop isnt Pay 2 win.

 

Cuz i dont think anyone can and if they do claim its not Pay 2 win I think they are being willfully ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest.

 

So lets hear it. Defend this obvious pay 2 win scam.

The keys are available in-game through vendors and rare drops.

Next.

And butler.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

But we already have that, in the form of many of the Korean MMO grinders.  Introduce grind and allow to reduce grind by paying money.  When Anet said they were going to make a game without grind did we all honestly think they meant you had to pay EXTRA to remove the grind?  Thats not how I remember the discussion on these boards a few months ago...

Leveling curve is still flat and it still takes about 90 minutes for every level past say 20. Gear still stops getting any better as soon as you reach level 80 and can be crafted or bought with gold or karma.

The XP boost will at most save you about 10 to 20 hours of the 100 hour to max level, and thats assuming you use them every single time you play.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

But we already have that, in the form of many of the Korean MMO grinders.  Introduce grind and allow to reduce grind by paying money.  When Anet said they were going to make a game without grind did we all honestly think they meant you had to pay EXTRA to remove the grind?  Thats not how I remember the discussion on these boards a few months ago...

Where do you see a way to pay to remove a grind that doesn't exist? There's no level curve, from 1-20 is the incline and the rest of the way its an almost entirely flat leveling curve. You can watch people level in their 20s very easily in youtube videos, which means it will be equally easy to level when you're near level cap. You are guaranteed a piece of gear, of your choosing, from dungeons, so no gear grind. Not that it matters since for the most part gear is only separated by how it looks and how you choose to customize it. 

So, it's easy to level. It's easy to get gear. The only thing that isn't easy is playing the game itself, and there's nothing in the cash shop that's going to change that. So...grind?

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

But we already have that, in the form of many of the Korean MMO grinders.  Introduce grind and allow to reduce grind by paying money.  When Anet said they were going to make a game without grind did we all honestly think they meant you had to pay EXTRA to remove the grind?  Thats not how I remember the discussion on these boards a few months ago...

Where do you see a way to pay to remove a grind that doesn't exist? There's no level curve, from 1-20 is the incline and the rest of the way its an almost entirely flat leveling curve. You can watch people level in their 20s very easily in youtube videos, which means it will be equally easy to level when you're near level cap. You are guaranteed a piece of gear, of your choosing, from dungeons, so now gear grind. Not that it matters since for the most part gear is only separated by how it looks and how you choose to customize it. 

So, it's easy to level. It's easy to get gear. The only thing that isn't easy is playing the game itself, and there's nothing in the cash shop that's going to change that. So...grind?

I actually don't mind some grind.  I was just responding to the post saying that this view that you can either grind forward or pay forward in a game is a refreshing take on MMO's.    I was just pointing out that this is one of the F2P mechanics that exist out there.

I actually don't care that much about the grind in GW2, but I do note they seem to be adding more gold grinds in the game once they decided to allow cash->gems->gold.  At one time Anet said they thought repair costs were a false mechanic, but now it is in the game.  They also have some other abilities, like squad commander, cost "large amount of gold."

Getting gold in-game is usually referred to as grind.

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

But we already have that, in the form of many of the Korean MMO grinders.  Introduce grind and allow to reduce grind by paying money.  When Anet said they were going to make a game without grind did we all honestly think they meant you had to pay EXTRA to remove the grind?  Thats not how I remember the discussion on these boards a few months ago...

Where do you see a way to pay to remove a grind that doesn't exist? There's no level curve, from 1-20 is the incline and the rest of the way its an almost entirely flat leveling curve. You can watch people level in their 20s very easily in youtube videos, which means it will be equally easy to level when you're near level cap. You are guaranteed a piece of gear, of your choosing, from dungeons, so no gear grind. Not that it matters since for the most part gear is only separated by how it looks and how you choose to customize it. 

So, it's easy to level. It's easy to get gear. The only thing that isn't easy is playing the game itself, and there's nothing in the cash shop that's going to change that. So...grind?

I'm seriousely trying to figure this out as well, where is the mofo grind that isn't there to begin with, it's why they are making the game to be independant, and cash shp is for some cash on the side.

All for extra convience you can pay for it or play for it

It just so happens the convience doesn't grant an un acchievable advtange and pass from lossing or getting an ass whooping.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Four0Six

*snip*

Where do you see a way to pay to remove a grind that doesn't exist? There's no level curve, from 1-20 is the incline and the rest of the way its an almost entirely flat leveling curve. You can watch people level in their 20s very easily in youtube videos, which means it will be equally easy to level when you're near level cap. You are guaranteed a piece of gear, of your choosing, from dungeons, so now gear grind. Not that it matters since for the most part gear is only separated by how it looks and how you choose to customize it. 

So, it's easy to level. It's easy to get gear. The only thing that isn't easy is playing the game itself, and there's nothing in the cash shop that's going to change that. So...grind?

I actually don't mind some grind.  I was just responding to the post saying that this view that you can either grind forward or pay forward in a game is a refreshing take on MMO's.    I was just pointing out that this is one of the F2P mechanics that exist out there.

I actually don't care that much about the grind in GW2, but I do note they seem to be adding more gold grinds in the game once they decided to allow cash->gems->gold.  At one time Anet said they thought repair costs were a false mechanic, but now it is in the game.  They also have some other abilities, like squad commander, cost "large amount of gold."

Getting gold in-game is usually referred to as grind.

Gold is mostly irrelevant to grind, however. It is unavoidable, regardless of whether or not a cash shop is part of the game. The only games where getting gold isn't a grind are games where the gold serves little purpose and thus is undervalued. Otherwise, gold is a global necessity that no one can ever have enough of, and so it will always take effort to accrue it. That's how economies work, and why we have a separation of rich and poor.

The more gold in the economy the easier it is to make it (meaning the more people spend) the less there is the harder it is to keep. In the end it's one of those things that naturally balances itself out over time. The idea that "gold grind" is introduced through "cash -> gems -> gold" is short-sighted, there are more ways to get gold than by killing things; most of your gold will come from player trade and naturally, the more money people have, the more they're willing to trade with you. It's all extremely arbitrary and artificial, which is why how much extra gold may or may not enter the economy through the buying/selling of gems means absolutely nothing in the end.

As for the prices on things like squad commander and their logic on repair costs, I can't comment on that. I still don't have enough information on squads and commanders to know if it matters or not, let alone how much is a "large amount" and how likely that will change within a month once there's more than enough gold floating around for everyone to swim in. Not like there's anything else to spend money on in GW2, all your gear comes from drops and no one has to fight over craft nodes, so there will be plenty of mats floating around as well.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this and all other related questions are simple:

 

Take 2 players, player A and Player B.  Player A has $100 dollars to spend in the game while Player B has $0.

 

They both must now "race" to level 20 (just picking a random level), once both players are level 20 they fight eachother or a NPC boss. 

 

Will player A be strong/win over player B?  The answer to that is the answer to P2W question. 

 

Player A might have had 100 to spend on leveling speed buffs, and such, but BOTH players end up at the same place (level 20 in this example).  As long as player A does not have an advantage over player B then it's not pay 2 win. 

 

If player A wants to spend his hard earned money to save himself wasted grinding hours within the game then good for him.  If player B wants to enjoy the grind and waste his time then good for him.  Both players should be given equal options to play the game how they want to enjoy it.

I must say I find this utterly refreshing.

+1

Isn't this what we all have been clamoring for? A game for EACH of us to play as we choose. Maybe it is "Pay to Win", but it seems as though we ALL win... WE each just choose a different form of payment.

But we already have that, in the form of many of the Korean MMO grinders.  Introduce grind and allow to reduce grind by paying money.  When Anet said they were going to make a game without grind did we all honestly think they meant you had to pay EXTRA to remove the grind?  Thats not how I remember the discussion on these boards a few months ago...

Where do you see a way to pay to remove a grind that doesn't exist? There's no level curve, from 1-20 is the incline and the rest of the way its an almost entirely flat leveling curve. You can watch people level in their 20s very easily in youtube videos, which means it will be equally easy to level when you're near level cap. You are guaranteed a piece of gear, of your choosing, from dungeons, so no gear grind. Not that it matters since for the most part gear is only separated by how it looks and how you choose to customize it. 

So, it's easy to level. It's easy to get gear. The only thing that isn't easy is playing the game itself, and there's nothing in the cash shop that's going to change that. So...grind?

I'm seriousely trying to figure this out as well, where is the mofo grind that isn't there to begin with, it's why they are making the game to be independant, and cash shp is for some cash on the side.

All for extra convience you can pay for it or play for it

It just so happens the convience doesn't grant an un acchievable advtange and pass from lossing or getting an ass whooping.

How does being integrated into the game from the ground up and not just 'tacked on' like in gw1. Be anything but independant..there saying right there the cash shop is a factor in gameplay design choices.

And to some of the people who think all these cash shop items are going to be 'useless stuff only stupid people buy' are just not looking at the big picture. There not gonna sell a whole lot of gems if everything in the cash shop is considered a ripoff. Is something is considered useless then Anet will probaly make adjustments. Then anounce the change was made to "enhance the experience of their gem purchasing customers".

Some of thing in the cash shop that bothers me is the potential, like say a month after launch. In order to provide a larger value to customers who have bought mystic keys, they've removed the unlock of the chests from the butler. Something like that could be done easily enough...along with a fancy little dev blog about how there not doing it to hinder those who don't buy they keys, But to enhance the experience of those who do by making it a little harder to unlock the chests.

Originally posted by evicton

And to some of the people who think all these cash shop items are going to be 'useless stuff only stupid people buy' are just not looking at the big picture. There not gonna sell a whole lot of gems if everything in the cash shop is considered a ripoff. Is something is considered useless then Anet will probaly make adjustments. Then anounce the change was made to "enhance the experience of their gem purchasing customers".

That will depend on the prices and what people think are a good price for items.

What would you consider a good price for an item that gives a +10% boost to XP/Karma/whatever gain for an hour? 

Or a new outfit/armour skin?

What about unlocking a new chacter slot or bag slot?  How much are those worth to you?

In EQ2 they give away experience boosts and tradeskill boosts to their vets each year...know how many I've used?  Zero.

They just don't make that much difference.   I will never buy one and don't understand why someone else would...but that is their choice.   It won't make any difference to the game that I play, and it won't negatively affect my game play.

In any case, no one has enough information on this issue to debate the CS in this game.

I'm planning to spend my 15$ a month in the CS and view it as a 'subscription'.   I'm hoping to use it for costumes and pets.   Treasure chests will be put in the bank until (if) I find a key...although with this amount of interest I might just sell them in the trading post.

I'm sure there will be folks that can't stand not knowing what is in the treasure chest and will buy keys...that's cool because that is fun for those peeps.

How people play is no one's business but theirs.   Anet is giving us options to play how we like and that is goodness.

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by evicton

And to some of the people who think all these cash shop items are going to be 'useless stuff only stupid people buy' are just not looking at the big picture. There not gonna sell a whole lot of gems if everything in the cash shop is considered a ripoff. Is something is considered useless then Anet will probaly make adjustments. Then anounce the change was made to "enhance the experience of their gem purchasing customers".

That will depend on the prices and what people think are a good price for items.

What would you consider a good price for an item that gives a +10% boost to XP/Karma/whatever gain for an hour? 

Or a new outfit/armour skin?

What about unlocking a new chacter slot or bag slot?  How much are those worth to you?

Thats kinda my point if an item doesn't sell well compared to other things. Anet isn't likely to leave it as is. There will be tweaks to make the items more appealing. And these can come in price drops, buffs to the boosts, or ingame changes.

If they want to sell keys and they can control the demand by lowering the ingame supply it a safe bet to assume if keys aren't selling to expactations they will become more difficult to obtain in game. 

Originally posted by evicton

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by evicton

And to some of the people who think all these cash shop items are going to be 'useless stuff only stupid people buy' are just not looking at the big picture. There not gonna sell a whole lot of gems if everything in the cash shop is considered a ripoff. Is something is considered useless then Anet will probaly make adjustments. Then anounce the change was made to "enhance the experience of their gem purchasing customers".

That will depend on the prices and what people think are a good price for items.

What would you consider a good price for an item that gives a +10% boost to XP/Karma/whatever gain for an hour? 

Or a new outfit/armour skin?

What about unlocking a new chacter slot or bag slot?  How much are those worth to you?

Thats kinda my point if an item doesn't sell well compared to other things. Anet isn't likely to leave it as is. There will be tweaks to make the items more appealing. And these can come in price drops, buffs to the boosts, or ingame changes.

If they want to sell keys and they can control the demand by lowering the ingame supply it a safe bet to assume if keys aren't selling to expactations they will become more difficult to obtain in game. 

Exactly.  Take EXP boosters as an example.  People have been saying "Who cares, your level is meaningless because of the sidekicking system."  But lo and behold, Anet no longer supports sidekicking UP.  All of a sudden those EXP boosters get just a little more valuable.

When you "build a game from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" that is how you will fine tune the world and features:  with microtransactions in mind.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by evicton

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by evicton

And to some of the people who think all these cash shop items are going to be 'useless stuff only stupid people buy' are just not looking at the big picture. There not gonna sell a whole lot of gems if everything in the cash shop is considered a ripoff. Is something is considered useless then Anet will probaly make adjustments. Then anounce the change was made to "enhance the experience of their gem purchasing customers".

That will depend on the prices and what people think are a good price for items.

What would you consider a good price for an item that gives a +10% boost to XP/Karma/whatever gain for an hour? 

Or a new outfit/armour skin?

What about unlocking a new chacter slot or bag slot?  How much are those worth to you?

Thats kinda my point if an item doesn't sell well compared to other things. Anet isn't likely to leave it as is. There will be tweaks to make the items more appealing. And these can come in price drops, buffs to the boosts, or ingame changes.

If they want to sell keys and they can control the demand by lowering the ingame supply it a safe bet to assume if keys aren't selling to expactations they will become more difficult to obtain in game. 

Exactly.  Take EXP boosters as an example.  People have been saying "Who cares, your level is meaningless because of the sidekicking system."  But lo and behold, Anet no longer supports sidekicking UP.  All of a sudden those EXP boosters get just a little more valuable.

When you "build a game from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" that is how you will fine tune the world and features:  with microtransactions in mind.

thing is Anet hasnt given us reason to believe they will do this yet, and those of us who know their record and have played gw1 trust that they wont be doing this. (if they do something like making the advantages important and game wrecking they will loose the majority of players and sell almost no expansions too).

so its a difference of opinion here realy nothing to argue. the argument essentialy is the evidence doesnt support your paranoia atm. have other companys done such things? yes, do i think anet will do it? no.

your looking for reasons by connecting things that for all you know arent and because of anets past i believe the things you cited arent connected. (also remember that they have from all appearances designed this game to remove the usual grind added in most mmo's because of needing to keep people around for the sub.

in the end its opinion atm and we will have to wait and see so please stop trying to fight about this its really pointless untill the game launches and a few months have passed.

Originally posted by evicton

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by evicton

And to some of the people who think all these cash shop items are going to be 'useless stuff only stupid people buy' are just not looking at the big picture. There not gonna sell a whole lot of gems if everything in the cash shop is considered a ripoff. Is something is considered useless then Anet will probaly make adjustments. Then anounce the change was made to "enhance the experience of their gem purchasing customers".

That will depend on the prices and what people think are a good price for items.

What would you consider a good price for an item that gives a +10% boost to XP/Karma/whatever gain for an hour? 

Or a new outfit/armour skin?

What about unlocking a new chacter slot or bag slot?  How much are those worth to you?

Thats kinda my point if an item doesn't sell well compared to other things. Anet isn't likely to leave it as is. There will be tweaks to make the items more appealing. And these can come in price drops, buffs to the boosts, or ingame changes.

If they want to sell keys and they can control the demand by lowering the ingame supply it a safe bet to assume if keys aren't selling to expactations they will become more difficult to obtain in game. 

Eviction you have a valid concern, but the difference is you express it as an concern but not a fact

Damn!

This is the difference, this is why you will see me and others say what we say you got these baiting and switching mofos, stating fasle shit as facts, but not once give a concern, that's a difference between improving and just starting bullshit.

Your concern could be voiced as one, that's good and all lol(though tbh with gems for gold and gold for gems, if the made things in casho shop only obtainable in cash shop it still wouldn't change)

If the take the ability to get anything in the cash shop by just playing then that'll be an issue.

Originally posted by PittyH

i've seen systems like this in many P2W games.

 

Look at Allods online and Battle of Immortals.

 

Make the locked chests rain down like candy, and make the keys to open them drop at  a rate of 0.003%

 

Sell keys in said store.

 

= Profit

 

GW2 is starting to reek of nickel and dime shennanigans.

I think I heard you can buy "butler golems" with karma that can unlock every chest in your inventory, but we might not know if that is true until beta testing. The information on the chests and how to unlock them is kind of hard to get right now.