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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » i have a feeling gw2 dynamic events will be no better than rifts or PQs

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222 posts found
  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

 
OP  10/22/11 6:55:20 PM#1

fact: gw2 will not be truly dynamic since it is not a sandbox

however

the illusion of a dynamic world can be created by having a large variety of events so that the same event does not occur for a couple of months after it first occured. 

 

i really doubt gw2 will have enough unique events to even create an illusion of a dynamic world. from what i have seen the

-shatterer will respawn repeatedly in the same location every time

-the same centaurs will raid the same human city every single time

- the same pirates will attack the same city every single time

 

seems it will be like invasions in rift (mundane and repetitive); if i kill this boss he will be back in an hour and if i dont kill him he will occupy some trivial quest hub.

 

 

  StoneRoses

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 911

10/22/11 7:15:25 PM#2
Originally posted by bishbosh

fact: gw2 will not be truly dynamic since it is not a sandbox

however

the illusion of a dynamic world can be created by having a large variety of events so that the same event does not occur for a couple of months after it first occured. 

 

i really doubt gw2 will have enough unique events to even create an illusion of a dynamic world. from what i have seen the

-shatterer will respawn repeatedly in the same location every time

-the same centaurs will raid the same human city every single time

- the same pirates will attack the same city every single time

 

seems it will be like invasions in rift (mundane and repetitive); if i kill this boss he will be back in an hour and if i dont kill him he will occupy some trivial quest hub.

 

 

What game isn't repetitive?

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

10/22/11 7:20:43 PM#3

Worst thing about rifts, IMHO, was just that the entire mechanic was tossed out at endgame, to be replaced with instance grinding.  I'm not saying the rift idea is perfect, and of course its going to get repetitive, but it was still a big step forward, compared to most other MMOs - but then they failed to take the idea the whole way, especially important in a game with such fast leveling.

 

So if GW2 is even a small step forward from that AND makes it a rewarding part of endgame somehow, I'd be happy.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  fony

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 799

10/22/11 7:24:05 PM#4

none of those events happen that way in the first place. the centaurs do not just spawn and start attacking towns. if you come across a centaur camp and kill them then there is no centaur event, and there might not ever be one unless the mobs are actually allowed to gather and increase their number. they'll start out with scouting groups, and if they're unimpeded it graduates to raids, then occupations which lead to fortifications and more scouting, etc. increasing their numbers  as time goes by.

 

this is not set in stone though, you won't just zone in at 12 every tuesdays and  OH SHIT CENTAURS!!!

 

ditto for pirate event.

 

the boss battles for the shatterer and tequati are at the end of loooong event chains and again, may not happen at all, at least for a good while. there is no timer involved. they puposely put the mjaor events in a 20 minute timer in the demo so showgoers could play them.

 

but this post is lost on you, and everyone who hates Guild Wars 2. it's just time for your weekly dick stroking reassurance topic.

  gladosrev2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/09
Posts: 204

10/22/11 7:25:36 PM#5

I think the idea is this:

 

1st time you play and see the centaurs attacking the village, you kill them etc and keep leveling and eventually your friend joins, and sees no cntaurs attacking, because they were pushed back and instead they hide in the forest and gather on the outskirts prepearing for an invasion. So he never nexperiences the same attack you did unless he stays long enough. Another of your friends might find the town burned down and no traders at all, they fled the city because players failed to help push back the invasion.. so he too wont see the place in the same state as you and your friend saw it. And so on.

The trick is chaining events, if ArenaNet can add enough stages it might sustain the illusion. But it can't just 'reset' magically, like in Champions Online for example...

My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570

  Kaerigan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/06
Posts: 713

10/22/11 7:25:46 PM#6

Well, I seem to recall the developers saying that they're trying their best to add so many events in the same areas that there will be large periods of time before an event repeats, and that they will continue adding events after launch in order to decrease the repetitiveness. I think they've also said that creating a dynamic event does not take a whole lot of time thanks to their toolset, so hopefully they'll be able to put out a lot of events.

<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  Biggus99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 964

10/22/11 7:31:22 PM#7
Originally posted by Vhaln

Worst thing about rifts, IMHO, was just that the entire mechanic was tossed out at endgame, to be replaced with instance grinding.  I'm not saying the rift idea is perfect, and of course its going to get repetitive, but it was still a big step forward, compared to most other MMOs - but then they failed to take the idea the whole way, especially important in a game with such fast leveling.

 

So if GW2 is even a small step forward from that AND makes it a rewarding part of endgame somehow, I'd be happy.

 

 

To be honest, the worst thing about Rifts wasn't that they became minimalized at end game.  The worst thing about them is that they happened ALL THE TIME.  And there wasn't any real variation to them.  They occured in stages with most of the stages being, "Kill this many of that mob."  Honestly, they were simply another Kill X of Y quest that occurred in stages, and in random spots.  Most people got bored of doing them by level 30.  It was a nice idea, but simply not varied enough in frequency or type to hold people's interest for too long.  

I think GW2's dynamic events will be a further step in that evolution, improving on what Rift did, just as Rift improved upon what WAR did with their public quests.  But I still question whether those dynamic events will be varied enough to truly make the levelling process much different than other MMOs.  There will still be scout npcs directing the players to specific locales to do these dynamic events, which in my mind, doesn't make them a whole lot different than a quest chain at a quest hub.  I do like the direction they are going with it, and think it does improve upon what is currently out there, I just question whether this will be able to function as the main levelling system and give you a truly different experience than regular themeparks when all is said and done.  And I definitely question how this will be able to hold up as a staple of their endgame content, which I believe will be seriously lacking.  I could be wrong about all that, though, and I do plan to give this game a shot and go into it with an open mind.

  User Deleted
10/22/11 11:43:45 PM#8

I attempt to address this point all the time.  I actually am really starting to hate that dynamic events are called "dynamic" because the fact that they "change the world" is the least compelling aspect.  To me, it's a nice bonus.  Yes, it helps immersion to see that the world is different.  And I am happy that they chain together, but more because keeping people working together longer (why leave when you have another event queued up for you?) leads to people being more likely to talk.

Usually after I write an entire page about them, I link that people should just watch this video.  I really think everybody should watch it.  It explains the evolution of MMO content and how DEs are the next step past quests and PQs.  http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

I really do believe that dynamic events are awesome and revolutionary, but it's not because you can "change the world".  Changing the world is a dumb reason to do something in an MMO if you can't change things permanently.

 

Dynamic events are almost strictly better than traditional MMO quests.  I won't get into that because this thread is about PQs and rifts, where there are a few major differences.

DEs are the major form of PVE content.  They aren't something you do because they're in the way of your questing.  People will be wanting to do DEs.

DEs chain together.  This gives people more of an opportunity to be social because they're sticking together longer.  It's not like a rift or a PQ where you do it and then scatter.

DEs are purely cooperative.  Everybody gets xp and loot for helping kill a mob.  You always want to see other people.  DEs scale up or down with number of participants, so they're always challenging.

The game automentors you down to an appropriate level if you're in a lower level zone.  If you're max level, the entire game is open to you so you can do anything.  You can group with friends no matter what their levels are.  You never have to worry about an event being impossible or trivial.

People get rewarded for their level of participation.  You could just run around rezzing people and be rewarded.

DEs have context that rifts lack.  A rift could be a complicated minigame, but it's just a hole in the sky.  An invasion is mobs trying to take something over.  With DEs, again, you're not really about trying to "change the world", but you're walking down the road and you see an NPC yelling about something that's actually happening, and you jumping in to help.  Bandits are poisoning a well, centaurs have prisoners, ogres need help clearing an oasis so they can get water for their pets.

TL:DR Seriously, watch the video.  But also seriously, it's like a whole world of quests, but the quests are more immediate (no wall of text, no picking up and turning in, no prequests), more immersive (it's actually happening), repeatable (you can redo the ones you like because they run in cycles and the game scales you down), failable (unlike quests where you're going to kill those rats eventually, you can fail if the enemy achieves certain conditions), scalable (up to 10 or up to 100 people in the area can take part), and cooperative (everybody gets xp and loot, everyone rezzes everybody, cross profession combos).  Oh, and they also kind of change the world for a while.

  Xthos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

10/22/11 11:49:15 PM#9

It may be quest loops, with added steps?  I have no clue...

 

They had me at WvWvW with objectives and sieges...

 

I agree with Rift being a instance grind for pve or pvp at the end, felt limited and the world was small for you when you were max level.  Rift is good for what it is, but I admit I like more sandbox, and I am trying to be satisifed and compromise...Loved Vanguard (till they stopped putting resources into it), and it isn't a sandbox...So I don't need a sandbox to be happy.  I am hoping for some DAoC nastalgia with the WvWvW in GW2.

  Golelorn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1101

10/22/11 11:52:13 PM#10

I also share your fear. Trion nor Mythic/EA could pull it off. Hopefully, Anet can. From what I've been led to believe, though, the same event should not happen twice. Even then, though, the events could come to feel the same. What is the difference between an ogre boss or a gnoll boss? Just different costumes.

 

Though, something tells me this is more a diatribe about GW2 not being a sandbox than actual discussion. I bet this game is going to be more of a sandbox than Rift, WAR or WoW. Oh yea, and that other game coming out.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4113

10/22/11 11:57:38 PM#11

Whether it is truly dynamic or just an illusion, either way it's better than the static PQs of WAR and better than those same PQs made portable in Rift.  This time, they cause a chain reaction, one dynamic event affects the next and so on down the line/zone thereby making the impact on the world much larger and more poignant.  Illusion?  probably, because sure, at some point it will all reset.  But by that time my character will have moved on to other areas.  It will only be brought to my attention when I make an alt, but that's a given in any game, isn't it?

On that note, let me end by saying, I actually enjoy PQs in WAR, Rifts in Rift and soon the Dynamic events in GW2.  Sure beats doing the same old grind mobs/quests we've been seeing before WAR hit.  ...Am I really in another thread complaining about something that was actually innovative in the genre and now evolving?  When will this negativity end, sheesh.

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  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

10/23/11 12:07:00 AM#12

I'm of the opinion that the illusion of a dynamic environment can be achieve by use of unpredictability and variety.

 

Take a town, we'll call it Burbank for example.  If there is one event for Burbank and it happens repeatedly every four hours, the pattern is obvious.  Oh look, the Troggs are attacking... right on time.

 

On the other hand, if Burbank has five events that can happen to it, scheduling of events is very unpredictable, and application of event is also randomized (location and intensity) then Burbank will have more chance of being perceived as dynamic.

 

A flip side to this is that if Burbank is constantly having an event, that too is predictable.  Sometimes Burbanks should have nothing going on... just to keep them guessing.

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

10/23/11 12:10:03 AM#13
Originally posted by elocke

  This time, they cause a chain reaction, one dynamic event affects the next and so on down the line/zone thereby making the impact on the world much larger and more poignant.

 

Dynamic events influencing other dynamic events sounds trick.  Are there examples of this?

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3099

I am more than some of my parts

10/23/11 12:12:58 AM#14
Originally posted by bishbosh

fact: gw2 will not be truly dynamic since it is not a sandbox

however

the illusion of a dynamic world can be created by having a large variety of events so that the same event does not occur for a couple of months after it first occured. 

 

i really doubt gw2 will have enough unique events to even create an illusion of a dynamic world. from what i have seen the

-shatterer will respawn repeatedly in the same location every time

-the same centaurs will raid the same human city every single time

- the same pirates will attack the same city every single time

 

seems it will be like invasions in rift (mundane and repetitive); if i kill this boss he will be back in an hour and if i dont kill him he will occupy some trivial quest hub.

 

 

Alas the wonders of the syllogism. However you are using a perception as your lesser fact which really makes the logic flawed.  A proper syllogism would use a greater fact supplimented by a lesser fact to determine a truth.  My favorite syllogism is  "God is love, and love is blind therefore God is Ray Charles." 

 

I am sorry however if my post seems pointless, I am just trying to keep the spirit of the thread  :)

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

10/23/11 12:28:30 AM#15

Computer code is no substitute for a human when it comes to sponteneity, originality, story, agenda, war,.....  Unfortunately no game has been created to take advantage of this, gaming companies think that they can make computer code that will replace humans, hahahaha, it will fail, it will always fail.  This aint AI.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

10/23/11 12:30:19 AM#16
Originally posted by ActionMMORPG
Originally posted by elocke

  This time, they cause a chain reaction, one dynamic event affects the next and so on down the line/zone thereby making the impact on the world much larger and more poignant.

 

Dynamic events influencing other dynamic events sounds trick.  Are there examples of this?

I serously doubt  it can work as advertised, ever since WOW all the rough edges and peaks and valleys have been smoothed out of MMORPG's.

  luckturtz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 424

10/23/11 7:20:02 AM#17
Originally posted by bishbosh

fact: gw2 will not be truly dynamic since it is not a sandbox

however

the illusion of a dynamic world can be created by having a large variety of events so that the same event does not occur for a couple of months after it first occured. 

 

i really doubt gw2 will have enough unique events to even create an illusion of a dynamic world. from what i have seen the

-shatterer will respawn repeatedly in the same location every time

-the same centaurs will raid the same human city every single time

- the same pirates will attack the same city every single time

 

seems it will be like invasions in rift (mundane and repetitive); if i kill this boss he will be back in an hour and if i dont kill him he will occupy some trivial quest hub.

 

Notice you said "respawn" you have no idea of the respawn rate so you don't know,The Shatterer could respawn a month or 2 months later meaning it take could 2 months set all events to trigger the dragon,The Centuars and pirates are in the area so it make sense they attack the city you can logically plan different events to trigger it happening ,once again it could take couple months to set up events plus some small events makes sense that they happen over and over

It is not matter of having enough events it is matter making those events don't happen over and over.GW2 as buy to play game does not care about population and player entitlement  like other games.If their any game that won't care that you don't get to see cool dragon it is guild war 2

 

Also Fact: Because GW2 is not a sandbox,It will always have interesting content to do

 

  gobla

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1421

C'est la vie.

10/23/11 7:45:01 AM#18
Originally posted by cali59

<snip>

Great post. Thanks for that.

Totally agree. What makes DEs great and innovative isn't their 'dynamic' nature, which imho is just a trick to temporarily make us believe that we're in a changing dynamic world. It's their communal nature: easy, rewarding and meaningful grouping. That's what makes DEs great.

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  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

10/23/11 8:43:42 AM#19
Originally posted by luckturtz

Also Fact: Because GW2 is not a sandbox,It will always have interesting content to do

 

There are bigger problems in the world other than sandbox vs themepark gamer preferences.

  Amaranthar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

10/23/11 9:01:04 AM#20

Whether GW2 is a Sandbox or not, this is a worthy thing to build on. It would fit in better and work better in a Sandbox world, and as long as Developers start working in this direction then Sandbox games won't be far behind.

I really hope that what is being said here is what actually comes about. This would be the first good news in years.

Edit: Instanced dungeons...bleh!

 

 

Once upon a time....

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