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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » Why is WvWvW and SPVP such a fail?

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117 posts found
  Halandir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 741

10/13/13 5:47:57 PM#101
Originally posted by Tamanous

Personally I think it is because of identity crisis. It was touted to be the next big pvp mmo but in reality it is just a zoned massive battleground. It is hard to sell the game on the hardcore mmo pvp crowd when the game is pretty much entirely pve with some pvp "options". This means pvp isn't real and the developers cater to both pve and pvp players separately just like Wow and other themeparks do. It is both different yet very much the same.

 

If GW2 took a real direction choice instead of trying to do the same "differently" it would likely manage to attract the core audience it wants. Instead GW2 is just a different way to try make everybody happy just like Wow tries to do.

Erm you are right about a certain degree of identity crisis but for all the wrong reasons. You just chose to interpret everything GW2 pvp was supposed to be, filtered into your own personal (ultra niche) context.

GW2 was supposed to have a STRUCTURED pvp format that was as engaging and competetive as the major structured formats in Guild Wars. On top of that they would have a large scale, 3 worlds vs eachother, PvE'ish format for some casual, less structured pvp-fun for everyone.

While the sPvP was indeed somewhat of a dissapointment compared to the original Giuild Wars formats, the WvW is pretty much everything it was supposed to be.

As for the "hardcore MMO pvp crowd"... It is more like a flock or group. There IS a reason why big developers are rather indifferent to their wishes and demands.

 

We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2125

10/14/13 3:25:15 AM#102

I find WvW fun, but sadly no one defends what they cap anymore.

I try to defend and I try to organize defend squads but It's hard due to the reward for defending anything is slim to nothing.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  woeye

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 119

10/19/13 10:10:08 AM#103
One hour queue time, for some even more.And lag, lag, lag. Instants sometimes taking up to 30 seconds to fire off. Well done, ANet, well done.
  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/19/13 10:32:29 AM#104
I thought spvp was pretty good, not as good as gw1 though.

WvW I just can't get into it, there's no reason to fight its just red vs blue vs green. Also the 3 border maps get boring fast.

If it was actual factions, the maps were more varied and there was more ways to counter mass aoe, I might have enjoyed it more.
  User Deleted
10/19/13 1:17:04 PM#105
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

  User Deleted
10/19/13 6:51:55 PM#106
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

  User Deleted
10/20/13 7:06:40 AM#107
Originally posted by didjerama
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

I expect AN to deal with the obvious problems, like commander options, population problems, night capping. If they want me to play WvW instead of soccer, then they need to affect change.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4617

10/20/13 8:13:58 AM#108
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by didjerama
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

I expect AN to deal with the obvious problems, like commander options, population problems, night capping. If they want me to play WvW instead of soccer, then they need to affect change.

Commander options are understandable.

Population problems are actually a very complicated issue, that is never fully solved, and EVERY game has them.

Night capping, again, is a problem EVERY game has. Pick a game with world PvP & objectives. And I'll tell you about a game that has night capping.

  User Deleted
10/20/13 11:10:10 AM#109
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by didjerama
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

I expect AN to deal with the obvious problems, like commander options, population problems, night capping. If they want me to play WvW instead of soccer, then they need to affect change.

Commander options are understandable.

Population problems are actually a very complicated issue, that is never fully solved, and EVERY game has them.

Night capping, again, is a problem EVERY game has. Pick a game with world PvP & objectives. And I'll tell you about a game that has night capping.

I don't care about other games.

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

10/20/13 2:41:10 PM#110
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by didjerama
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

I expect AN to deal with the obvious problems, like commander options, population problems, night capping. If they want me to play WvW instead of soccer, then they need to affect change.

Commander options are understandable.

Population problems are actually a very complicated issue, that is never fully solved, and EVERY game has them.

Night capping, again, is a problem EVERY game has. Pick a game with world PvP & objectives. And I'll tell you about a game that has night capping.

I don't care about other games.

How would you fix night capping?

 

In case people are wondering I'm indeed curious how night capping could be fixed.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2502

10/20/13 2:50:12 PM#111


Originally posted by Maurgrim
I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?


First 6 or 8 months you could transfer easly with you guild from US to europe or other way around join the strongest server kick ass to numbers 2 and and 3 stay up there and leave to next and next this was one of fails.

And if other server had at least a change to conquer areas back then zerg is not bad but in WvWvW you had one group that took over all maps in no time and it was almost imposible to get it back, well in first six months dunno now?

Also cheating and the meaningless beating at gates with random groups not realy knowing what to do was fail one or two servers took over map fast and pvp was dead.

I dunno how it is these days but first six months where terible.

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  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/20/13 3:31:29 PM#112
Things I didn't like with WvW
1 there was no lore behind you fighting. If I was in a human faction fighting the char who were invading my homeland, I would have a reason to fight. Red vs blue vs green because "magic stuff" doesn't motivate me.
2 side maps were, all the same. I don't get why they stuck to a fixed 4 maps, why not on a quiet pairing just have 2 random maps and on a busy one have 6? Why do them side maps have to be symmetrical, its not like the maps are linked and you need the outer one to fight on the middle one?
3 needs to be disincentives to mass aoe. Something like the all cc breaks on damage and gives immunity feature from war would let coordinated groups beat aoe spammers.
4 its the perfect activity to do as a guild. Only you cant! Why can't you form raids ran by your guild, either private or open to the public like every other rvr game such as daoc, war, planetside, aion etc..
  User Deleted
10/20/13 3:35:47 PM#113
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by didjerama
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

I expect AN to deal with the obvious problems, like commander options, population problems, night capping. If they want me to play WvW instead of soccer, then they need to affect change.

Commander options are understandable.

Population problems are actually a very complicated issue, that is never fully solved, and EVERY game has them.

Night capping, again, is a problem EVERY game has. Pick a game with world PvP & objectives. And I'll tell you about a game that has night capping.

I don't care about other games.

How would you fix night capping?

 

In case people are wondering I'm indeed curious how night capping could be fixed.

Theres tons of ideas on the forums for the Devs to steal. Merging European servers with NA. Reducing the points you get for holding things during off peak times. Free transfers once a month to give the players the freedom to even things out if they chose. Stronger doors and walls to give defenders the advantage.

  Rohn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3739

10/20/13 3:38:06 PM#114
Originally posted by Maurgrim
Originally posted by Badaboom

For me it fails because it is an instance, removed from the world.  It's just an e-sport with no consequence.  I like to play open world pvp games with consequence, like Darkfall or Eve.

For me, games like GW2 are short term fun. 

 

How is consequence working for you in EVE when you have 2+ billion ISKs to replace any losses you might take and how is consequence working for you in Darkfall when you have 50+ armour and weapons in your bank that you can use when you get ganked?

 

EVE and Darkfall might sound hardcore but in reality it is not

 

Both games absolutely destroy GW2 in terms of "meaningful" PvP.  WvWvW is so unbelievably meaningless by comparison, in terms of impact on the gameworld, it's hysterical that anyone would actually try to compare them.

GW2's PvP is instanced garbage, completely meaningless to the gameworld as a result, which is why is it such a failure.  It's trite, casual, e-sport garbage.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/20/13 4:24:51 PM#115
You don't have to be a ffa sandbox to have more meaningful pvp than WvW.

Daoc , war and planetside have more meaningful pvp, because the other sides are different and you hate them.
  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

10/20/13 6:29:12 PM#116
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by didjerama
Originally posted by mCalvert
Originally posted by Maurgrim

I have read in many threads how GW2 made misstakes that for some reason made the PVP in the game a big fail, but what i never read so far is what are those misstakes Anet made that some people brings up all the time in GW2 forum and on other sub game forums.

For me I enjoy SPVP very much and WvWvW is very fun, sure there are zerges running around but hey we are talking about servers here, not 5v5 epeen kids doing their thing.

And I've read several posts about zergs are something bad in GW2 WvWvW, how is that bad, really I mean It's a frikkin server battle, didnt Allied troops zerged Germany in ww2? , Didn't USA and it's allies zerged Sadam?,  I mean what's so bad about zergs,? In my meaning a zerg is a army on a misson, Is that so bad?

It isn't a fail. Its very popular on some servers. However, the reason many people don't like it is that's its static. For a year now the same people have been playing the same people, on the same maps, fighting the same ways. Winning doesn't matter, everything resets after a week. You die, you res. You take a tower, they take it back.

And until just now, they haven't fixed any of these issues, just added some token skill buffs.

And soccer is just same people playing same people for over 100 (exaggeration for point) years now on pretty much exactly same field and exact same ball, scoring goals, receveing goals, and every year everything resets.

What exactly do you expect, you either like it or not.

I expect AN to deal with the obvious problems, like commander options, population problems, night capping. If they want me to play WvW instead of soccer, then they need to affect change.

Commander options are understandable.

Population problems are actually a very complicated issue, that is never fully solved, and EVERY game has them.

Night capping, again, is a problem EVERY game has. Pick a game with world PvP & objectives. And I'll tell you about a game that has night capping.

I don't care about other games.

How would you fix night capping?

 

In case people are wondering I'm indeed curious how night capping could be fixed.

Theres tons of ideas on the forums for the Devs to steal. Merging European servers with NA. Reducing the points you get for holding things during off peak times. Free transfers once a month to give the players the freedom to even things out if they chose. Stronger doors and walls to give defenders the advantage.

Wait a minute a lot of those ideas create even more issues...Reducing points during off peak time...reduces players and maybe players who can only be active during off peak time, stronger doors and walls, people use to call this game Guild Doors 2 for a reason, free transfers once a month, well that'll give lower servers even more of a reason to complain, merging servers has issues in it's own as well, however maybe if done right could happen.

 

However me being a human I must be missing something and all these ideas must have no flaws that keep tapping at my head like "No..noo...NOOOOOOO!"

So yea maybe those ideas are flawless and honest to the Man above I could be wrong in which I don't mind, cause the more I learn the better.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  User Deleted
10/21/13 11:07:15 AM#117
Originally posted by RizelStar

Wait a minute a lot of those ideas create even more issues...Reducing points during off peak time...reduces players and maybe players who can only be active during off peak time, stronger doors and walls, people use to call this game Guild Doors 2 for a reason, free transfers once a month, well that'll give lower servers even more of a reason to complain, merging servers has issues in it's own as well, however maybe if done right could happen.

 

However me being a human I must be missing something and all these ideas must have no flaws that keep tapping at my head like "No..noo...NOOOOOOO!"

So yea maybe those ideas are flawless and honest to the Man above I could be wrong in which I don't mind, cause the more I learn the better.

They were just examples. Im not here to have a debate about how to fix it. That's the devs job.

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