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125 posts found
  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2560

10/18/13 5:44:54 AM#121
Originally posted by fivoroth
 

So if we say there were monsters (mobs) in real life, would you say they would selectively pick who to attack? Cause I am pretty sure they will go for the nearest/closest target. That's what animals seem to do. We are not talking about humans here. But then again in real life we don't use spells and swords to kill someone. We use shotguns, guns.....lazorz!!!!!...nooo wait ;D

Not all mobs in MMORPGs are animals and stupid monsters.

Additionally animals tend to go after the weaker prey they can identify.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2628

10/21/13 12:29:14 PM#122
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by fivoroth
I am amused how people simplify the whole trinity concept to extremely Basic tank and spank encounters. 

But that is exactly what seperates a trinity based design from a non-trinity based design. Tank and spank is the default mode of the former, while not really possible in the latter.

All the complexity that can be layered on top of that, the many varied encounter mechanics you speak of, are not an intrinsic part of a trinity-based design. The are a reaction to the basic design being so overly simple. One reason why you don't see so many secondary mechanics in GW2 encounters is simply because they don't need additional elements to break up the flow of the encounter, as that already happens naturally without a tank with established aggro.

And since you're criticizing how people simplify too much, you may want to revisit the dungeons in GW2. You'll find pretty much all of them do have quite varied encounter mechanics.

I don't think that all the complexity layered on top of the trinity is possible with GW2's system. Can you please give examples of encounters which don't boil down to simple dps and dodge spam. I found that in GW2 in most dungeons you are better off if you are specced for maximum damage and opting out for more support oriented skills/traits actually made the encounters unnecessarily more difficult. 

I just fail to see the variety in GW2's system. True you don't need a tank or a healer but that's not the point. The argument against the holy trinity is that it lacks variety. But I found much more interesting and varied encounters in WoW compared to GW2. The other thing which probably makes the game even less varied when running dungeons is that you are ultimately doing one and the same role on different heroes - dpsing, dodging and brainlessly throwing support spells. However, when playing a tank/healer/dps in WoW the different encounters seem different when playing a different role. Just give you a different perspective I guess. There is no aggro management (which at times can be fairly complicated) and resource management. Although WoW I think did throw out the aggro and resource management out of their dungeons in the later expansions, can't say as I haven't played them.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  User Deleted
10/22/13 4:58:20 AM#123
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by fivoroth
I am amused how people simplify the whole trinity concept to extremely Basic tank and spank encounters. 

But that is exactly what seperates a trinity based design from a non-trinity based design. Tank and spank is the default mode of the former, while not really possible in the latter.

All the complexity that can be layered on top of that, the many varied encounter mechanics you speak of, are not an intrinsic part of a trinity-based design. The are a reaction to the basic design being so overly simple. One reason why you don't see so many secondary mechanics in GW2 encounters is simply because they don't need additional elements to break up the flow of the encounter, as that already happens naturally without a tank with established aggro.

And since you're criticizing how people simplify too much, you may want to revisit the dungeons in GW2. You'll find pretty much all of them do have quite varied encounter mechanics.

all the complexity layered on top of the trinity

Trinitiy is: tank, dps, heal

Amything on top of that can be done in ANY other system.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

10/22/13 6:01:07 AM#124
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Naqaj
Originally posted by fivoroth
I am amused how people simplify the whole trinity concept to extremely Basic tank and spank encounters. 

But that is exactly what seperates a trinity based design from a non-trinity based design. Tank and spank is the default mode of the former, while not really possible in the latter.

All the complexity that can be layered on top of that, the many varied encounter mechanics you speak of, are not an intrinsic part of a trinity-based design. The are a reaction to the basic design being so overly simple. One reason why you don't see so many secondary mechanics in GW2 encounters is simply because they don't need additional elements to break up the flow of the encounter, as that already happens naturally without a tank with established aggro.

And since you're criticizing how people simplify too much, you may want to revisit the dungeons in GW2. You'll find pretty much all of them do have quite varied encounter mechanics.

I don't think that all the complexity layered on top of the trinity is possible with GW2's system. Can you please give examples of encounters which don't boil down to simple dps and dodge spam....

 

Sure, the entire new path in TA. There isn't a single fight in there that's "dps/dodge spam". As a matter of fact, the encounters work as well as they do because they weren't constrained by the limitations of a trinity based system.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Naqaj

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1676

10/25/13 8:21:00 AM#125
Originally posted by fivoroth

 True you don't need a tank or a healer but that's not the point. The argument against the holy trinity is that it lacks variety. But I found much more interesting and varied encounters in WoW compared to GW2. 

Fair point. I disagree with your conclusion that this is a result of having or not having the trinity though. For every really cool, complex boss fight in WoW , there's at least 10 bog-standard tank'n'spank fights as well. 

On the other side, each of the Living Story dungeons had boss encounters with intricate mechanics, that couldn't be spiked down with damage alone.

I can't entirely disagree with the observation that many boss encounters in GW2 aren't particularly interesting (fuck Defiance!). But the more recent examples have shown that that's a result of their rather uninspired design, not a limitation imposed on them by the combat system.

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