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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » Winds of Change

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107 posts found
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

12/21/12 10:18:02 PM#81
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Something tells me the industry will be looking very closely at the profitability and longevity of GW2's revenue model before they make any plans to copy.  Don't forget that GW1 was heralded as a landmark game in its time, yet no one has copied it.

TSW already has adopted it :)  

 

  RedJorge

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/11
Posts: 105

Sheldon Cooper: Leonard, be serious. We're playing a game here. (Big Bang Theory)

12/21/12 10:18:23 PM#82

GW2 does not innovate anything in the MMORPG/MMO world.

GW2 just amalgamated the best features of several games (with some improvements) in one game. Actually, the areas where they tried to be different from their raw models are exactly the worst areas of the game.

It is not a bad game but does not deserve all the hype it got. Unfortunately for me, GW2 has a very short life span. I played it for a bit more than 2 months and 700 hours and I am bored to death.

I played all my favourite MMORPG´s during several years (each one of them, since 1997). GW2 is a game for casuals, not a game for a dedicated, permanent and active community. In GW2 I participated in hundreds of parties and only once the party chat went beyond "Hi...". But we could do all dungeons, fractals, events, etc without communicating. Basically its a zerg fest. Most challenging mobs have a basic AI and zillions of HP points that waste our time taking them down. So, if you have enough firepower you do it easily.

In other games, usually, many bosses are "tank and spank". In GW2 we dont have tanks or healers so its "spank and spank".

Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
[laughs]
Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
[walks away]
Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
Sheldon: What?
Penny: This plasma grenade.
[explosion]
Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

12/22/12 1:05:03 PM#83
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Something tells me the industry will be looking very closely at the profitability and longevity of GW2's revenue model before they make any plans to copy.  Don't forget that GW1 was heralded as a landmark game in its time, yet no one has copied it.

TSW already has adopted it :)  

 

Then they are jumping the gun.  In the MMO arena, GW1 was not that profitable compared to other revenue models from different MMOs.  GW2 has yet to prove anything, but it will be interesting to see how much money they make a year from now.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/12 1:13:05 PM#84
We're already seeing other MMOs implement features from GW2. On its own merits, I do not see GW2 as a very good game, but it has zome nice features. My favorite is the mob tagging system.
  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2603

12/22/12 1:51:28 PM#85
Originally posted by Pivotelite

GW2 has not revolutionized anything, let's see the sales on their first expansion before we claim anything.

 

SW;TOR won more awards than GW2 has and you don't see anyone bragging about SW:TORS undeniable success..

 

The fact I had all my guildies manage to last 3-6 months in TERA and none of them make even the 2 month mark when we switched to GW2 says more than enough about the game. Considering TERA is a shell of a game itself.

The thing is no one is playing SWTOR whereas GW2 is one of the most played PC games.

Nuff said.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Ice-Queen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

12/22/12 2:51:51 PM#86
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Tayah
Originally posted by killion81

What new features did GW2 bring that we will see in these MMORPGs of the future?  

Do you mean the "action oriented combat", variants of which were found in several MMORPGs and RPGs prior?  

Perhaps the emphasis on personal story, kind of like SWTOR?

The WvW copied from DAoC but done better in DAoC?

Instanced sPvP "battlegrounds" as found in just about every MMORPG since WoW?

Yah, they said their WvsW was influenced by DAOC's. That had me interested, but it's nothing like Pre-ToA DAOC, sadly. So they lost me, since that's all I was interested in. It's just way too much instanced, controlled, to be anything like Pre-TOA DAOC was.

DAOC - blah blah blah - sorry GW2 was influenced by GW1 NOT DAOC - sorry.

As others have stated, you're wrong. Arenanet has stated WvsW was influenced from DAOC RvR.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
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  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

12/23/12 9:41:58 AM#87
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Pivotelite

GW2 has not revolutionized anything, let's see the sales on their first expansion before we claim anything.

 

SW;TOR won more awards than GW2 has and you don't see anyone bragging about SW:TORS undeniable success..

 

The fact I had all my guildies manage to last 3-6 months in TERA and none of them make even the 2 month mark when we switched to GW2 says more than enough about the game. Considering TERA is a shell of a game itself.

The thing is no one is playing SWTOR whereas GW2 is one of the most played PC games.

Nuff said.

I still play SWTOR.  I also still play EQ2 and every once in a while, EQ1.  Despite what you may think, there are a lot more gamers out there who do not play GW2 than there are those who do.  Hell, GW2 doesn't even come close to WoW numbers even after its decline, let alone when it was at the peak of its popularity.  If your game was the Messiah that you guys drool about, I would expect that to be reversed.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4075

12/23/12 9:50:09 AM#88
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Ugh, I clicked thinking they were making some major changes to the game.  Hopes dashed.

Me too, thought it was about systems being added and a new direction for GW2, instead it's another apparent fan overhyping the game yet again.

The only thing GW2 will change, and it already has, is the open tapping, pvp being less gear oriented and how dynamic content works.  I'm seeing open tapping in Lotro now and changes to PVP in games like Lotro, SWTOR, Rift and so on in regards to gear.  Anything else, though no.  The game seems to hit a niche crowd and IMHO shows the Trinity design is still a concrete design and one to not eschew.  At least not in such an extreme way the likes of which GW2 shows us.

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  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 323

12/23/12 9:56:27 AM#89
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Darth-Batman
Its already happening but if theres something a person doesnt want to see then they wont. Its easy to not see something that you dont want to.

That is one hell of a pedantic statement. I have my eye on every new release for next year and beyond and i don't see where is this 'wind of change' alereing MMO genre for good.

You have seen the changes if you've been following MMO's. 

WoW is making changes based on GW2, Rift made changes based on GW2, TSW went b2p based on GW2, TES is looking at doing away with the trinity based on GW2. 

 

If you don't want to see the changes thats whats going to happen. Your likely to just brush this off and claim otherwise, but it's expected. Others are seeing it though. 

Once again B2P is not a feature of MMOS and that is not what OP is about.

You are being very vague. I am still open to admiting it if you can actually show me the 'wind of change' as it has been claimed several time in thsi topic.

And may i say that you being one of the hardcore GW2 fans, trying too hard to push this one on those who don't agree with you? and yes that is also expected.

See two can play that game.

  Wrender

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/04
Posts: 1418

The truth shall set you free!
The truth shall piss you off!

12/23/12 10:45:32 AM#90
Originally posted by snapfusion

lol the winds of change you say?  So I have heavily instanced, quick travel only, mountess, 7 skill insert tumble time, every man for himself MMO's to look forward to from now on?

Ill jut kill myself now if this is the future of MMO's.

THIS ^

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1835

12/23/12 10:45:56 AM#91
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Pivotelite

GW2 has not revolutionized anything, let's see the sales on their first expansion before we claim anything.

 

SW;TOR won more awards than GW2 has and you don't see anyone bragging about SW:TORS undeniable success..

 

The fact I had all my guildies manage to last 3-6 months in TERA and none of them make even the 2 month mark when we switched to GW2 says more than enough about the game. Considering TERA is a shell of a game itself.

The thing is no one is playing SWTOR whereas GW2 is one of the most played PC games.

Nuff said.

Really?  I can log into The Prophecy of the Five TOR server at any time of day and always find people in the zone I decide to go to. 

In GW2, unless you are in the 1-10 or 80+ level bracket, you'll be hard presses to find more than 5 other people.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

12/23/12 7:19:33 PM#92
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Darth-Batman
Its already happening but if theres something a person doesnt want to see then they wont. Its easy to not see something that you dont want to.

That is one hell of a pedantic statement. I have my eye on every new release for next year and beyond and i don't see where is this 'wind of change' alereing MMO genre for good.

You have seen the changes if you've been following MMO's. 

WoW is making changes based on GW2, Rift made changes based on GW2, TSW went b2p based on GW2, TES is looking at doing away with the trinity based on GW2. 

 

If you don't want to see the changes thats whats going to happen. Your likely to just brush this off and claim otherwise, but it's expected. Others are seeing it though. 

Once again B2P is not a feature of MMOS and that is not what OP is about.

You are being very vague. I am still open to admiting it if you can actually show me the 'wind of change' as it has been claimed several time in thsi topic.

And may i say that you being one of the hardcore GW2 fans, trying too hard to push this one on those who don't agree with you? and yes that is also expected.

See two can play that game.

I'm not sure what game we are playing but I'm not exactly sure how I was vauge. I've repeatedly stated changes in upcomming and current games influenced by GW2. 

TESO - Trinity/Threat changes, the adoption of the GW2 style questing system (Seemless quests or Dynamic Events they haven't clarrified this completely yet but have made refference to GW2's questing in comparisson), Combo fields. I wish I could be more detailed but all I have to go on are the interviews and information from the developers. No videos or detailed explanations as of yet. 

TSW - Adopting GW2's business model. And yes lol, business model has always been a part of MMO's. B2P isn't used typically by MMO's, seeing it used by games outside of Anet is note worthy. 

World of Warcraft - Changes in WoW can be said to be derived from other games but they did not happen until the success of GW2. Community quests were added (Yes I know War did these, but the game was not successful and the features of the game were not held in high regard due to this.), Monks gaining a bit of hybrid action style mechanics such as dodge roll. Scenarios that now don't rely on the trinity. 

 

Rift and LotRO - adopted "Open tapping" making it so you aren't competing with those not in your party for kills and such. Everyone gets credit grouped or not. 

 

 

Would you like me to continue?

When a games popular other developers and publishers try to find out why. They break the game down into pieces and try and figure out which pieces are the most popular. Every developer and publisher will do polls, research the forums, and make guesses as to what piece or pieces made said game popular. They then begin incorporating them. 

Developers like Blizzard try to do so while said game is in development. Others take a wait and see approach and incorperate after success has been proven. 

 

Seeing the influence and or impact GW2 has had on MMO's is easy, but it's also easy to close your eyes and try to ignore it or simply write it off or give credit elsewhere if you simply aren't a fan. 

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

12/23/12 7:31:00 PM#93
Originally posted by killion81

What new features did GW2 bring that we will see in these MMORPGs of the future?  

Do you mean the "action oriented combat", variants of which were found in several MMORPGs and RPGs prior?  

Perhaps the emphasis on personal story, kind of like SWTOR?

The WvW copied from DAoC but done better in DAoC?

Instanced sPvP "battlegrounds" as found in just about every MMORPG since WoW?

DAYYUUMMMMM you said all that shit but named different games for each, thought you where going to name one for all. 

 

Idk I guess underwater combat lol, DE's done better somehow replacing quests, possibly stuff like this in a sandbox OH SHIT!!!!!!!

 

PVP possibly being like GW1/2 in upcoming games.

 

Edited:  Though course there are changes or things different in GW2 I never said if they where better because that's subjective, but well give credit where credit is due.

Oh and I must say if there is a themepark like GW2 already made I sure as hell would be playing it, and TSW had a sub plus PVE isn't as fun to [me] as it is with GW 2(;ack of DEs) but still not as boring or similar  to previous themeparks, so that being said  something in these two games have to be [different], like I'm dead ass, I couldn't and still can't play a standard run in the mill themepark that's not my style, and that unfortunately is a [fact]. That's just being [real] and [honest] for y'all simple asses.

Eh well, you guys take care of yourselves and enjoy life, peace.

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

12/24/12 5:10:57 AM#94
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by eyelolled

With the plethora of awards that this title is receiving, there is no doubt that the developers of future games will be taking notice,  Do you think that there is a new generation of mmo's on the horizon that are going to break beyond the standard definition of mmorpgs?

 One question... what did GW2 change?

 

Dynamic events, WvW, no trinity, it has all been done in other MMOs. It is not innovative.

To get technical, they didn't even innovate by removing the trinity, they just changed how it works and called it Damage / Control / Support instead of Tank / DPS / Heal.....

So even the stuff the fan boys claim they innovated was nonsense....

No trinity? Marketing bullshit...

Dynamic Events? Copied from WARs public quest system.

WvW? Copied from DAoC / WAR with even less tangible meaning / replay value...

 

Pfft....not much to see here...

Driz

  saurus123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 501

12/24/12 5:22:19 AM#95
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by eyelolled

With the plethora of awards that this title is receiving, there is no doubt that the developers of future games will be taking notice,  Do you think that there is a new generation of mmo's on the horizon that are going to break beyond the standard definition of mmorpgs?

 One question... what did GW2 change?

 

Dynamic events, WvW, no trinity, it has all been done in other MMOs. It is not innovative.

To get technical, they didn't even innovate by removing the trinity, they just changed how it works and called it Damage / Control / Support instead of Tank / DPS / Heal.....

So even the stuff the fan boys claim they innovated was nonsense....

No trinity? Marketing bullshit...

Dynamic Events? Copied from WARs public quest system.

WvW? Copied from DAoC / WAR with even less tangible meaning / replay value...

 

Pfft....not much to see here...

Driz

from what i saw theres no trinity

 

you dont stand in town yelling lf1m healer or tank

you gather your friends and go do the stuff

everyone is damage, support and control

 

dynamic events are way better done than these in WAR or Rift

 

PvP based on skill of the player not the gear!!!

  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 323

12/24/12 5:31:10 AM#96
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Darth-Batman
Its already happening but if theres something a person doesnt want to see then they wont. Its easy to not see something that you dont want to.

That is one hell of a pedantic statement. I have my eye on every new release for next year and beyond and i don't see where is this 'wind of change' alereing MMO genre for good.

You have seen the changes if you've been following MMO's. 

WoW is making changes based on GW2, Rift made changes based on GW2, TSW went b2p based on GW2, TES is looking at doing away with the trinity based on GW2. 

 

If you don't want to see the changes thats whats going to happen. Your likely to just brush this off and claim otherwise, but it's expected. Others are seeing it though. 

Once again B2P is not a feature of MMOS and that is not what OP is about.

You are being very vague. I am still open to admiting it if you can actually show me the 'wind of change' as it has been claimed several time in thsi topic.

And may i say that you being one of the hardcore GW2 fans, trying too hard to push this one on those who don't agree with you? and yes that is also expected.

See two can play that game.

I'm not sure what game we are playing but I'm not exactly sure how I was vauge. I've repeatedly stated changes in upcomming and current games influenced by GW2. 

TESO - Trinity/Threat changes, the adoption of the GW2 style questing system (Seemless quests or Dynamic Events they haven't clarrified this completely yet but have made refference to GW2's questing in comparisson), Combo fields. I wish I could be more detailed but all I have to go on are the interviews and information from the developers. No videos or detailed explanations as of yet. 

TSW - Adopting GW2's business model. And yes lol, business model has always been a part of MMO's. B2P isn't used typically by MMO's, seeing it used by games outside of Anet is note worthy. 

World of Warcraft - Changes in WoW can be said to be derived from other games but they did not happen until the success of GW2. Community quests were added (Yes I know War did these, but the game was not successful and the features of the game were not held in high regard due to this.), Monks gaining a bit of hybrid action style mechanics such as dodge roll. Scenarios that now don't rely on the trinity. 

 

Rift and LotRO - adopted "Open tapping" making it so you aren't competing with those not in your party for kills and such. Everyone gets credit grouped or not. 

 

 

Would you like me to continue?

When a games popular other developers and publishers try to find out why. They break the game down into pieces and try and figure out which pieces are the most popular. Every developer and publisher will do polls, research the forums, and make guesses as to what piece or pieces made said game popular. They then begin incorporating them. 

Developers like Blizzard try to do so while said game is in development. Others take a wait and see approach and incorperate after success has been proven. 

 

Seeing the influence and or impact GW2 has had on MMO's is easy, but it's also easy to close your eyes and try to ignore it or simply write it off or give credit elsewhere if you simply aren't a fan. 

I think you should because you are once again confusing payment model for a game feature. OP is about changes in terms of features not who is adopting B2P model.

As far as TESO is concerned game isn't even in alpha yet and they have already changed their game design twice. WHo know what final version be at release. And from whatever i have read so far TESO is trying to be more like Skyrim and other TES games and not like GW2. You are just trying too hard to find the similarities.

Other than that you have example of WOW where changes can be said to be influneced by GW2 although there is no clear explanation on specifics of that. And an open tapping system in LOTRO and RIFT.

So much for 'wind of change' altering face of future MMOS.  I think you are trying too ahrd here to see what isn't there but that is expected if you are a fan which follows GW2 with eyes closed.

 

  meddyck

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1124

12/24/12 5:36:12 AM#97
The main thing I see GW 2 influencing is payment model. Already TSW has gone B2P and I expect and hope that more and more MMOs will try that model from release instead of the failing box price+monthly subscription for less than a year then convert to freemium a la SWTOR.

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  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

12/24/12 5:38:42 AM#98

Some but not a lot.

Just like GW2 took ideas developed from other games themselves and further developed and broadened their scope. Change takes time as you can see certain aspects doing over the years in mmos. I certainly don't think this game is the starting point of any such notion if that is the implication meant.

Simply another stepping stone in the process.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  ImperialSun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 231

12/24/12 5:45:15 AM#99
Originally posted by saurus123
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by eyelolled

With the plethora of awards that this title is receiving, there is no doubt that the developers of future games will be taking notice,  Do you think that there is a new generation of mmo's on the horizon that are going to break beyond the standard definition of mmorpgs?

 One question... what did GW2 change?

 

Dynamic events, WvW, no trinity, it has all been done in other MMOs. It is not innovative.

To get technical, they didn't even innovate by removing the trinity, they just changed how it works and called it Damage / Control / Support instead of Tank / DPS / Heal.....

So even the stuff the fan boys claim they innovated was nonsense....

No trinity? Marketing bullshit...

Dynamic Events? Copied from WARs public quest system.

WvW? Copied from DAoC / WAR with even less tangible meaning / replay value...

 

Pfft....not much to see here...

Driz

from what i saw theres no trinity

 

you dont stand in town yelling lf1m healer or tank

you gather your friends and go do the stuff

everyone is damage, support and control

 

dynamic events are way better done than these in WAR or Rift

 

PvP based on skill of the player not the gear!!!

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. That however is not how the devs spun it prior to release.

 

You can continue to spin it any way you choose to however the combat roles in this game ARE based on a trinity of Damage / Support / Control. Just because they changed how it works slightly does not mean there is no trinity.

Dynamc events better than WAR? Oh that must be why everyone slates them then...and are equally bored with the hearts that thinl veil all of the go fetch this, go kill 10 of that, go milk a cow and collect some flowers type quests. You know the sort of hum drum standard MMO quest type fayre that Anet would not be prevalent in their game.

 

PvP based on mindless zerging with about six buttons on your toolbar...priceless.

Combine that with the fact that most players are now deserting the game claiming there is not enough about the game to hold their interest for more than a month or so....

This truly is the messiah of MMORPGs like we were promised it was going to be :)

Even SWTOR has more players and more buzz about it these days lol...

Driz

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

12/24/12 6:02:46 AM#100
Originally posted by ImperialSun

Even SWTOR has more players and more buzz about it these days lol...

Driz

SWTOR is proof that having "more buzz" is not always a positive thing.

...and I have no idea if SWTOR has more players or not but one would hope it would considering it is f2p, the ip, and the popularity of Bioware in general and their other Star Wars games.

The only ones that claimed this game to be "the messiah" are the same ones that claim every mmo is going to be Jesus on a hotrod time and time again.

 

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

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