Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Zylaxx
I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO.  I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model.  IMO hub based quest games are dead to me.  TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get.  Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.

Here is the fork /fork

start diggin.  So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others.  GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)

 

Guy in our guild just dinged 80. He went from 2 to 80 purely in WvW.  There's a large variety of ways to gain exp and level... from renown hearts (quest-like structures), dynamic events, exploring, WvW, crafting, etc.

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Zylaxx
I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO.  I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model.  IMO hub based quest games are dead to me.  TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get.  Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.

Here is the fork /fork

start diggin.  So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others.  GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)

The fork in the eye was an old failcom trick ...see if TSW fanbois actually posted in their own forms they might generate some intrest in that game ...as it now stands it appears that it's more fun to lurk in the GW2 forms than to play TSW  

Wait...people getting sick of dynamic events?  Odd...anyone who played WAR or Rift could have forseen that one.

 

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Zylaxx
I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO.  I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model.  IMO hub based quest games are dead to me.  TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get.  Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.

Here is the fork /fork

start diggin.  So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others.  GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)

 

Guy in our guild just dinged 80. He went from 2 to 80 purely in WvW.  There's a large variety of ways to gain exp and level... from renown hearts (quest-like structures), dynamic events, exploring, WvW, crafting, etc.

 Truth be told though, you can do this with BGs in a lot of other games.  But yes, I do think that GW2 offers a lot of freedom in ways to level.

Ayn Rand, the problem with your arguments is that we DO realize that you are essentially doing quest objectives in GW2 PvE, that has never been the issue.  We just like how GW2 presents it more because it gets rid of a lot of the annoying things that a lot of us hated about quests, for example:

1.  Backtracking. 

"Derp derp, did my errands, now I have to run back and get goodies and more errands."

2.  Quest hubs making things too linear. 

"Whew, I sure killed a lot of Gnolls back there...hey who is this guy?"

'Stranger I need your help, please kill 20 gnolls and bring me 10 gnoll tongues. [trollface]' 

"But I just killed like 500 gnolls!  FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!" 

If you dont' go to the quest hubs first, you basically have to do everything again...this basically KILLS exploration for me.

3.  Your character's story living in a separate world from everything else.

"Stranger, there is a rock blocking the road, I need you to destroy it with this dynamite."

"Of course!  I'll get right on that!" [Walks up to the rock with dynamite in hand, only to see another player blow it up, proceeds to walk back to NPC]

"Hey yeah, so some other dude blew the rock up already."

"Stranger, I don't give a crap, YOU have to go in there and blow it up or it doesn't count.  Now wait for it to reappear and then blow up that rock, or you ain't getting crap!'

4.  Competing with other players for quest mobs.

After receiving his noble quest to defeat the gnoll shaman Argaz, our hero bravely fights through the Gnoll camp, and enters the Chieftain's tent to find...

A line of people waiting for the Chieftain to spawn.

 

GW2 has none of this annoying crap.  THIS is why people like it so much.  It has nothing to do with quests having the same objectives or whatever.  They will ALWAYS have the same objectives.  It's just the presentation and how much annoying crap that comes with them that matters.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Zylaxx
I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO.  I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model.  IMO hub based quest games are dead to me.  TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get.  Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.

Here is the fork /fork

start diggin.  So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others.  GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)

 

Guy in our guild just dinged 80. He went from 2 to 80 purely in WvW.  There's a large variety of ways to gain exp and level... from renown hearts (quest-like structures), dynamic events, exploring, WvW, crafting, etc.

 Truth be told though, you can do this with BGs in a lot of other games.  But yes, I do think that GW2 offers a lot of freedom in ways to level.

Ayn Rand, the problem with your arguments is that we DO realize that you are essentially doing quest objectives in GW2 PvE, that has never been the issue.  We just like how GW2 presents it more because it gets rid of a lot of the annoying things that a lot of us hated about quests, for example:

1.  Backtracking. 

"Derp derp, did my errands, now I have to run back and get goodies and more errands."

2.  Quest hubs making things too linear. 

"Whew, I sure killed a lot of Gnolls back there...hey who is this guy?"

'Stranger I need your help, please kill 20 gnolls and bring me 10 gnoll tongues. [trollface]' 

"But I just killed like 500 gnolls!  FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!" 

If you dont' go to the quest hubs first, you basically have to do everything again...this basically KILLS exploration for me.

3.  Your character's story living in a separate world from everything else.

"Stranger, there is a rock blocking the road, I need you to destroy it with this dynamite."

"Of course!  I'll get right on that!" [Walks up to the rock with dynamite in hand, only to see another player blow it up, proceeds to walk back to NPC]

"Hey yeah, so some other dude blew the rock up already."

"Stranger, I don't give a crap, YOU have to go in there and blow it up or it doesn't count.  Now wait for it to reappear and then blow up that rock, or you ain't getting crap!'

4.  Competing with other players for quest mobs.

After receiving his noble quest to defeat the gnoll shaman Argaz, our hero bravely fights through the Gnoll camp, and enters the Chieftain's tent to find...

A line of people waiting for the Chieftain to spawn.

 

GW2 has none of this annoying crap.  THIS is why people like it so much.  It has nothing to do with quests having the same objectives or whatever.  They will ALWAYS have the same objectives.  It's just the presentation and how much annoying crap that comes with them that matters.

Creslin, I think you know that as well as many others...I do not think the dude above did.  But another issue is to think that this is the only game to do this.  Play TSW and tell me how many times you have to run back to a questgiver to finish.  Tell me how many times a story you hear doesnt interact with the rest of the world and what's currently occuring.  

As for waiting in line, this is one of the things that caused me to be more social...if I see a bunch of people waiting for the same mob I start spamming group invites so that we all get the credit...then it turns out we all have the next quest too (or some of us) so we go and do that....eventually we put each other on our friends and maybe even form a guild/cabal together.  That's where I can see the "anti-social" concerns from people with GW2.  that's at least one of the facits

Originally posted by Bad.dog

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Zylaxx
I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO.  I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model.  IMO hub based quest games are dead to me.  TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get.  Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.

Here is the fork /fork

start diggin.  So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others.  GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)

The fork in the eye was an old failcom trick ...see if TSW fanbois actually posted in their own forms they might generate some intrest in that game ...as it now stands it appears that it's more fun to lurk in the GW2 forms than to play TSW  

You can certainly find me in the TSW forums....I'm also here to.  it's a forum...I go where I please.

Originally posted by Elikal

You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something.

If you're actually saying you read all of that text, then good for you (one of very few I suspect). Illusions that you have accomplished something, if that is what you need for a game,  then there are still plenty of other games you can go and play :) Or you can go conquer jumping puzzles for 10 achievements each!

Some people need to be forced to be "social" by some kind of mechanic, like forced grouping, forced queuing, etc... Other people are just social because they are naturally empathic. The problem is similar to those who need to be forced into a gear grind to gain some kind of false sense of achievement.

Some people also seem to think that waiting in a queue to get into a dungeon/raid to bash mobs is the ultimate form of online socialization. To each his own.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Some people need to be forced to be "social" by some kind of mechanic, like forced grouping, forced queuing, etc... Other people are just social because they are naturally empathic. The problem is similar to those who need to be forced into a gear grind to gain some kind of false sense of achievement.

Some people also seem to think that waiting in a queue to get into a dungeon/raid to bash mobs is the ultimate form of online socialization. To each his own.

although I agree with your statement, I am a computer geek...might not look like one, might not be an IT major, but I am.  With that, Im very anti-social....I dont just walk up to people all day and talk to them (unless im drunk at one of my shows).  I have a natural tendancy to be anti-social, so any non-deliberate attempt in a game to make me more social is fine with me.  Just not all about the deliberate attempts.

I respect your opinion. Change for the better is sometimes not easy.

I for one don't miss quest hubs AT ALL. They can keep them back there with the gear treadmill and the endless reputation grinds and the rush to the end game.....not for me.

GW2 has everything i've been looking for, most importantly it has the solutions to all the problems i've ever experienced in a pve mmo ever wrapped into one game. Sure it has it's hiccups but it's still the most stable best launched title i've seen in years.

I'll gladly give up those basics that clone after clone have used for a very long long time for better convenience. :)

Basically what is wrong with questing is most of the quests end up being filler quests, which gets tedious.  What I suggest is to replace filler quests with GW2 style events for the 'grinding', and pepper in well crafted quests to add story and flavor.  Basically something like GW2 character quests, but to tell the story of the the region, not just your character.  

Originally posted by adam_nox
Hearts could have worked, but as much as people will hate to admit it, anet was lazy with them.  A single bar to fill with a few possible activities all contributing to it, and that's it?  They could have had several stages for each heart, where a story develops in a single heart as you progress through it's stages, without changing the general concept.

Mostly this.

In the videos and on paper the events sounded SO great; Centaurs would slowly conquer a region, and you drove them slowly back. Reality is, every 5 min 30 Centaurs invade, 5-10 players beat them back, rince repeat. THAT wasn't what I thought about the whole event thing before I played GW2. I thought it was something more lasting, something "bigger", grander (is that a word??), not some rush rush here and rush rush there stuff with barely and lasting effect or real meaning.

 

EDIT:

Some clarifications.

a) I didn't mean those super simple filler quests, like "Get 20 Swine Snouts for Granny Swine-Snout Pie".

b) I want quests to be dynamic, like the cool Book Quests from LOTRO or the char story quests from SWTOR.

c) A MMO could have a mix of 50% quests and 50% Dynamic Events.

d) Lots of the DE are cool, but that the game has ONLY DE is what just is too much for me. It's like you only eat ice cream every day, or so.

I don't miss traditional questing at all.  I've never liked it.  I do like the way TSW does it though, but i prefer Dynamic Events overall.

Originally posted by adam_nox
Hearts could have worked, but as much as people will hate to admit it, anet was lazy with them.  A single bar to fill with a few possible activities all contributing to it, and that's it?  They could have had several stages for each heart, where a story develops in a single heart as you progress through it's stages, without changing the general concept.

This in particular makes sense to me.  While I don't miss traditional quest hubs in the least, my favorite quest chain was a set of deity quest chains my EQ2 Warden undertook.  Some quests were particularly interesting because they were centered around learning strange languages so I could complete sub-chains, and similarly uncommon tasks.  Many, most in fact, were standard kill-x / fedex style, or faction related.  It's not that any one quest was that great but the complex intertwining of them all, the intricate sub-chains required to unlock another sub-chain, that made it so fun.

GW2 could definitely stand some clever intricacies thrown in the mix for those that enjoy getting lost in creating their own story.

Originally posted by Synthetick

I respect your opinion. Figured a lot of people would feel this way.

My personal preference is big orange/red circle'd content to content within a ! or ? NPC. I understand if yours is different.

But I definitely feel I get more of a feeling of being in the actual story with Guild Wars 2. Granted, when I arrive at a location, I literally speak with every NPC and run through every option of dialogue available and that gives me my sense of location awareness and purpose of my actions.

 

i quote cause i was going to same the thing, or at loeast is the same i thinked .

Yup I'm also in agreement with Adam, giving hearts a progressive edge to it allows stories to develop, while not breaking the de principles.

The problem with traditional quests is that they aren't quests anymore, 99% of them are just chores. You know, the usual "bring me 10 rat livers", "kill 10 birds" etc.

Quests should be rare and epic, stuff like "Save the princess", "Bring back the Holy Graal", "Kill the Lich King" and so on.

Thus the way GW2 works seems very good for me: there's no text for your every day tasks, and voice over only for your (important) story line.

I have to say for as much as GW2 is advertised as a "no grind" game, it has THE worst grind of anything. First character to 80 feels great, no grindy at all. Any after that, however, is a HELL of a grind. Because of the lack of quest hubs and focus on exploration/DEs for leveling, you're forced to do the exact same things to level.
Unless you craft, then you either mindlessly farm mats or mindlessly farm gold to buy the mats.

Rift was definitely the most well done level curve of any game I've played, the quests were so insanely streamlined that there was little to no backtracking, and they all had a story that went together. Not to mention the ability to level through warfronts if you wanted.

Oh for goodness sake another post that fails to understand that grind is only that if you are stupid enough to dO repetitive content you do not want to do.

If you want to compare, compare tour second character in rift against you second character in gw2

It's a mmorpg. I take open ended events where other players can join in any day over static singleplayer shopping list quests in mmorpgs. There's also personal storylines in GW2, but when I want to immerse my self in really interesting and engaging stories I play story driven singleplayer games, read book or watch movies.

 

Though I kinda get what you're saying, but I think you should look at it more from a multiplayer point of view rather than from singleplayer point of view. In my personal opinion the MM(ULTIPLAYER)ORPG genre really should start concentrating more on the multiplayer side of things rather than wasting 90% of the gameworld and the resources in it in singleplayer stuff. The huge open world of WoW is a prime example of massive singleplayer online roleplaying game.