Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by rutaq

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by Requiem1066

The only part of making the whole game " endgame " I fear is that outside of PvP it will hold little repeatable value .

And while some might think they can I doubt anyone can predict if in 2/3/4 months time whether they will have hit the "bored" wall or not

Thats the problem I see with GW2. They are going to need incredibly frequent content updates, because no matter how much content everyone says the game has, it's easily burned through in a very short amount of time.

 I agree and with the heavy handed streamling and homogenizing of things for the sake of "easy" "fun" gameplay , I am concerned that new event content is going to just blur together as the same forgetable Zergfest of Pew Pewing we see today.

 

Maybe they will actually add some lasting impact to DE's...

 Imagine the alarms go off as the Gaint slowly lumbers for say 15 minutes to town.....

The local players can't fight him off and nobody rallys to help as the Giant slowly destroys the town...

The town gets destroyed and stays destroyed for a month or longer.

 

  Real lasting changes, none of  resets every 10 minutes as the damn Centuars regroup and assault the town for the 100th time this week  :(

 

I can see what you are saying, but it will come with a bunch of problems too. One being a player hears an awesome giant event was in town but he missed it, next thing is he whine about it on mmorpg.com forums because he learned that the event happens next time in two months, and likely he's not at his computer or at the right area on those 15 minutes. This is more of content to fit into a sandbox game maybe, where the player mentality and expectations are more hardcore to begin with.

 

I get what you are saying though, it would bring more immersion and the world would be truly different at times, but it would require a TON of more dev work to have enough these unique events that happen very rarely, to make the world interesting to play in. That's why the centaurs attack all the time, so that the guy who comes one hour later than you, can experience some of the centaur attacks too, and not wonder why nothing is happening just when he's around.

 

I personally completed my basic leveling part in Kessex Hills when the seraph had basically the whole map in control, and didnt experience that much of the centaur plague in there because of that. I'm actually going back there as soon as I'm done with couple of parts on my personal quest, and try to be there when the centaurs are pushing or are on the top of things.

I'm already level 35 but am yet to encounter the Swamp Lord in QUEENSDALE(!). Bad timing sucks. But I'm glad to know that it's still there and doable in much less than a month.

The frequency of events seems very random. I've never done the swamp lord event yet I've fully experienced other meta-events that rewards a chest at the end after a boss fight multiple times..

They can still improve the existing game a lot.

Some attack/defense meta-events remind me of Tabula Rasa which reminds me how I miss it.

And that's actually great. They've decided to add some of the more exicting content to the open world and in places where its not just seen by the grind obsessed, poopsocking, facerollling raid crowd for a change. Props to them.

However I feel it would have been nicer if they had actally attempted to reimagine the actual GAME PLAY. Because at the end of the day, different content scattering or not, all I've got for my trouble is the gear on my back, the loot in my sack, and a meaningless level cap number hanging over my head. My contributions to the game world mean fuck all.

For ME, even if they provide short term enterainment, these kinds of games still feel like havinging sex without the ability to reach orgasm. Sure you're going through the motions but theres no real payoff. And because of that you don't have the inclination to try it again just because this years model has the new "action breasts" enchancement.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Aerowyn

In case people didn't see this it was posted today

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

Could somebody please explain to me - how that's the endgame reimagined?

Having elements of "endgame" along the way to the endgame - is pretty much called playing until endgame.

As for going beyond the typical model - um - no.  They've included various things from various games, expanding the overall grind potential within the one game...

...but that's not reimagining the endgame.

I was hoping for something new and interesting in that article...

edit: Don't get me wrong, I think it's great they've pulled a lot of those things from other games into one to give folks those varied options - but I was just expecting something else.

I agree completely.  

They are throwing in the word "Reimagined" as a buzz word, imo.  Many folk are complaining about the lack of end-game, traditional or not.  This leads me to believe that those with short attention spans and/or people that don't read articles but the see the titles, will think that they are implementing something new.  At the very least, hoping to calm the reservations people may be having, wondering what the top-end of the game will really be like.

On a slightly related note, I couldn't believe how they called out P2P MMOs like they did.  Sure, of course they are going to give out plenty of free content.  But their cash shop + expansions will bring them more than a flat sub would (all the while, people will think they are getting a much better deal (some will, some won't)).  They are painting themselves as the saviors of the MMO world in this process.

I don't play GW2, but I've always liked Arenanet.  I was disappointed to see that sort of behavior.  It is a competitive world though.

Originally posted by Tardcore

And that's actually great. They've decided to add some of the more exicting content to the open world and in places where its not just seen by the grind obsessed, poopsocking, facerollling raid crowd for a change. Props to them.

However I feel it would have been nicer if they had actally attempted to reimagine the actual GAME PLAY. Because at the end of the day, different content scattering or not, all I've got for my trouble is the gear on my back, the loot in my sack, and a meaningless level cap number hanging over my head. My contributions to the game world mean fuck all.

For ME, even if they provide short term enterainment, these kinds of games still feel like havinging sex without the ability to reach orgasm. Sure you're going through the motions but theres no real payoff. And because of that you don't have the inclination to try it again just because this years model has the new "action breasts" enchancement.

Where do you come up with this shit?

LMFAO

On topic.

If ANET is going to re-imagine anything, it better be a point. Before they can imagine what goes into their version of endgame, they'd better figure out the "why" 1st. Otherwise, they are doing nothing but introducing a pointless grind. Doing something because it's there only works once or twice. Then it's "WTF for?"

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Tardcore

And that's actually great. They've decided to add some of the more exicting content to the open world and in places where its not just seen by the grind obsessed, poopsocking, facerollling raid crowd for a change. Props to them.

However I feel it would have been nicer if they had actally attempted to reimagine the actual GAME PLAY. Because at the end of the day, different content scattering or not, all I've got for my trouble is the gear on my back, the loot in my sack, and a meaningless level cap number hanging over my head. My contributions to the game world mean fuck all.

For ME, even if they provide short term enterainment, these kinds of games still feel like havinging sex without the ability to reach orgasm. Sure you're going through the motions but theres no real payoff. And because of that you don't have the inclination to try it again just because this years model has the new "action breasts" enchancement.

Where do you come up with this shit?

LMFAO

Well it's pretty obvious from the last two weeks how he's been posting here, he expected a sandbox game and the game was not a sandbox game, and it hurts. It does not matter that the game never claimed to be a sandbox game to begin with.

I understand that some people dont like this game or that game, and I understand that they want everyone to know that, and the reasons why they dont like the game. What I dont understand is why waste time day after day from week to the next on the forums about a game that your not going to even play, trumpeting how you dont like the game.

It's like these people have some huge urge to convince others to not like it too. I say it out loud too when I dont like some games, and then leave it at that rather sooner than later. Afterall, whining about GW2 (or any themepark) not being a sandbox isnt going to make the next themepark game a sandbox game instead, or did I miss something? For the record, I'd love to see a well made sandbox game too, just never expected GW2 to be it...

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Tardcore

And that's actually great. They've decided to add some of the more exicting content to the open world and in places where its not just seen by the grind obsessed, poopsocking, facerollling raid crowd for a change. Props to them.

However I feel it would have been nicer if they had actally attempted to reimagine the actual GAME PLAY. Because at the end of the day, different content scattering or not, all I've got for my trouble is the gear on my back, the loot in my sack, and a meaningless level cap number hanging over my head. My contributions to the game world mean fuck all.

For ME, even if they provide short term enterainment, these kinds of games still feel like havinging sex without the ability to reach orgasm. Sure you're going through the motions but theres no real payoff. And because of that you don't have the inclination to try it again just because this years model has the new "action breasts" enchancement.

Where do you come up with this shit?

LMFAO

 

Well it's pretty obvious from the last two weeks how he's been posting here, he expected a sandbox game and the game was not a sandbox game, and it hurts. It does not matter that the game never claimed to be a sandbox game to begin with.

 

I understand that some people dont like this game or that game, and I understand that they want everyone to know that, and the reasons why they dont like the game. What I dont understand is why waste time day after day from week to the next on the forums about a game that your not going to even play, trumpeting how you dont like the game.

 

It's like these people have some huge urge to convince others to not like it too. I say it out loud too when I dont like some games, and then leave it at that rather sooner than later. Afterall, whining about GW2 (or any themepark) not being a sandbox isnt going to make the next themepark game a sandbox game instead, or did I miss something? For the record, I'd love to see a well made sandbox game too, just never expected GW2 to be it...

And neither did I. Check my post history.

The reason I keep sharing my opinion is in counter argument to those posters who claim that this game is amazingly different than any other themepark, and opinion I disagree with. And more importantly to add a counter argument to those here who keep saying that this is exactly what the MMO industry needed and other companies should follow suit. And opinion I VEHEMENTLY disagree with as I feel this is the exact behavior that's made the genre tragically unenjoyable to me (and apperently quite a few others).

I feel GW2 is fine for what it is, and ultra-casual themepark game. I think the game world is gorgeous and lovingly crafted. But I disagree strongly that it is a stunning example of MMO evolution, or that every themepark from here on out should follow its example.

MMO's are like life. At the end of it al we are all just wormfood, don't matter if you are Bill Gates or the guy living in a refrigerator box in the alley. Just enjoy the ride as best you can.

Offtopic  but I took all my MMO gold and credits and uber gear and tried to trade it for a new car, could not even get a used Yugo for it.

Originally posted by Tardcore

 

And neither did I. Check my post history.

The reason I keep sharing my opinion is in counter argument to those posters who claim that this game is amazingly different than any other themepark, and opinion I disagree with. And more importantly to add a counter argument to those here who keep saying that this is exactly what the MMO industry needed and other companies should follow suit. And opinion I VEHEMENTLY disagree with as I feel this is the exact behavior that's made the genre tragically unenjoyable to me (and apperently quite a few others).

I feel GW2 is fine for what it is, and ultra-casual themepark game. I think the game world is gorgeous and lovingly crafted. But I disagree strongly that it is a stunning example of MMO evolution, or that every themepark from here on out should follow its example.

Arenanet just did with GW2 what Blizzard did with WoW. Blizzard took the basic MMO concept and improved it. Concept of all MMO's is to hit things with a pointy stick so you can hit bigger things with a bigger pointy stick. If you don't find some entertainment in exploring , socializing or whatever then you are screwed.

Remeber Richard Bartle? His theory is as sound today as it was when he came up with it back in the days of MUDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_Test

Newsflash, there is no MMO ever going to be designed or published that will be a substitute for your real life.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Tardcore

And that's actually great. They've decided to add some of the more exicting content to the open world and in places where its not just seen by the grind obsessed, poopsocking, facerollling raid crowd for a change. Props to them.

However I feel it would have been nicer if they had actally attempted to reimagine the actual GAME PLAY. Because at the end of the day, different content scattering or not, all I've got for my trouble is the gear on my back, the loot in my sack, and a meaningless level cap number hanging over my head. My contributions to the game world mean fuck all.

For ME, even if they provide short term enterainment, these kinds of games still feel like havinging sex without the ability to reach orgasm. Sure you're going through the motions but theres no real payoff. And because of that you don't have the inclination to try it again just because this years model has the new "action breasts" enchancement.

Where do you come up with this shit?

LMFAO

 

Well it's pretty obvious from the last two weeks how he's been posting here, he expected a sandbox game and the game was not a sandbox game, and it hurts. It does not matter that the game never claimed to be a sandbox game to begin with.

 

I understand that some people dont like this game or that game, and I understand that they want everyone to know that, and the reasons why they dont like the game. What I dont understand is why waste time day after day from week to the next on the forums about a game that your not going to even play, trumpeting how you dont like the game.

 

It's like these people have some huge urge to convince others to not like it too. I say it out loud too when I dont like some games, and then leave it at that rather sooner than later. Afterall, whining about GW2 (or any themepark) not being a sandbox isnt going to make the next themepark game a sandbox game instead, or did I miss something? For the record, I'd love to see a well made sandbox game too, just never expected GW2 to be it...

And neither did I. Check my post history.

The reason I keep sharing my opinion is in counter argument to those posters who claim that this game is amazingly different than any other themepark, and opinion I disagree with. And more importantly to add a counter argument to those here who keep saying that this is exactly what the MMO industry needed and other companies should follow suit. And opinion I VEHEMENTLY disagree with as I feel this is the exact behavior that's made the genre tragically unenjoyable to me (and apperently quite a few others).

I feel GW2 is fine for what it is, and ultra-casual themepark game. I think the game world is gorgeous and lovingly crafted. But I disagree strongly that it is a stunning example of MMO evolution, or that every themepark from here on out should follow its example.

 I agree that there are large parts of GW2 that are ultra-casual, but I think it's very misleading to call the whole thing ultra-casual.  Because there are also parts of GW2 that pretty hardcore...and there is one spot in particular that is nearly Darkfall level hardcore.

Just for examples, the explorable mode dungeons are punishingly hard.  There are even some whine posts about how hard they are.  WvW is also fairly hardcore...I can tell you first hand that it sucks when you put down a trebuchet that you spent all this money on and the other team just demolishes it before you can even get it operational.

And the spot I alluded to before is a jumping puzzle in Eternal Battlegrounds.  This thing can like like over an hour to get through, and you can literally camp at the end and knock off or kill enemies that get through, making all that time that they spend getting through a waste.

So yeah, I think it's misleading to call GW2 ultra-casual.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Tardcore

And that's actually great. They've decided to add some of the more exicting content to the open world and in places where its not just seen by the grind obsessed, poopsocking, facerollling raid crowd for a change. Props to them.

However I feel it would have been nicer if they had actally attempted to reimagine the actual GAME PLAY. Because at the end of the day, different content scattering or not, all I've got for my trouble is the gear on my back, the loot in my sack, and a meaningless level cap number hanging over my head. My contributions to the game world mean fuck all.

For ME, even if they provide short term enterainment, these kinds of games still feel like havinging sex without the ability to reach orgasm. Sure you're going through the motions but theres no real payoff. And because of that you don't have the inclination to try it again just because this years model has the new "action breasts" enchancement.

Where do you come up with this shit?

LMFAO

 

Well it's pretty obvious from the last two weeks how he's been posting here, he expected a sandbox game and the game was not a sandbox game, and it hurts. It does not matter that the game never claimed to be a sandbox game to begin with.

 

I understand that some people dont like this game or that game, and I understand that they want everyone to know that, and the reasons why they dont like the game. What I dont understand is why waste time day after day from week to the next on the forums about a game that your not going to even play, trumpeting how you dont like the game.

 

It's like these people have some huge urge to convince others to not like it too. I say it out loud too when I dont like some games, and then leave it at that rather sooner than later. Afterall, whining about GW2 (or any themepark) not being a sandbox isnt going to make the next themepark game a sandbox game instead, or did I miss something? For the record, I'd love to see a well made sandbox game too, just never expected GW2 to be it...

And neither did I. Check my post history.

The reason I keep sharing my opinion is in counter argument to those posters who claim that this game is amazingly different than any other themepark, and opinion I disagree with. And more importantly to add a counter argument to those here who keep saying that this is exactly what the MMO industry needed and other companies should follow suit. And opinion I VEHEMENTLY disagree with as I feel this is the exact behavior that's made the genre tragically unenjoyable to me (and apperently quite a few others).

I feel GW2 is fine for what it is, and ultra-casual themepark game. I think the game world is gorgeous and lovingly crafted. But I disagree strongly that it is a stunning example of MMO evolution, or that every themepark from here on out should follow its example.

 I agree that there are large parts of GW2 that are ultra-casual, but I think it's very misleading to call the whole thing ultra-casual.  Because there are also parts of GW2 that pretty hardcore...and there is one spot in particular that is nearly Darkfall level hardcore.

Just for examples, the explorable mode dungeons are punishingly hard.  There are even some whine posts about how hard they are.  WvW is also fairly hardcore...I can tell you first hand that it sucks when you put down a trebuchet that you spent all this money on and the other team just demolishes it before you can even get it operational.

And the spot I alluded to before is a jumping puzzle in Eternal Battlegrounds.  This thing can like like over an hour to get through, and you can literally camp at the end and knock off or kill enemies that get through, making all that time that they spend getting through a waste.

So yeah, I think it's misleading to call GW2 ultra-casual.

I don't think he's talking about encounters being easy or hard with regard to casual. I think he's talking about how they are approached.

(correct me if I'm wrong)

If we go back several years. We can go to WoW pre Wrath. Let's go back to early TBC. 60-70 was casual for sure. You could solo that. Infact most did. But at 70, a whole new game opened up. It started with a series of quests that would lead to other opportunities that would lead to new factions that would lead to new areas to play the game.

Point is, you couldn't simply go and tackle any aspect of the gaem without 1st having moved through a series or chain of events. You couldn't do heroics until you bought the key which wasn't until you had gotten to revered Rep wichh meant you HAD to do dungeons in std mode 1st. Don't even think about raiding until you got attuned.

I think the move away from that model towards the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time is what is being referenced as ultra casual.

Isn't it ironic that this is the most griped about model developed in the MMO world and yet it was the most successful in terms of player retention? And I don't buy that players got bored of it. People started leaving after the model moved to the more casual models. I just think it has more to do with th efact that players have no freakin clue what they really want. 

Originally posted by TardcoreBut I disagree strongly that it is a stunning example of MMO evolution, or that every themepark from here on out should follow its example.

I too disagree, it's not a stunning example of MMO evolution. Stop telling your self that anyone who likes the game thinks this.

Anyone who likes the DE's gets instantly told by you or someone else, basically if reading between the lines, that they are idiots since they dont realize it's just normal quests chained together in a different wrapping, and that it makes no fucking difference if they are not always the same in the same place. And shit like that.

It's pretty stupid anyway if you are only allowed to be very happy about a new mmorpg in a scenario that will never happen: When the stunning example of mmo evolution will be released.

So which game is it going to be? The one that re-writes human history in a single stunning blow? It's not going to be Arche Age or Titan. When those two games gets released, hyped and misinformed mmo fans (or haters tbh) will loose their faith in the genre again and fall into depression, since they realize that fuck, it's just a computer game again.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think the move away from that model towards the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time is what is being referenced as ultra casual.

Did you turn sandbox games into ultra casual just like that?

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think the move away from that model towards the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time is what is being referenced as ultra casual.

 

Did you turn sandbox games into ultra casual just like that?

Who is talking about Sandboxes? This whole thing is about Themeparks.

There hasn't ever been a sandbox that is casual or ultra casual. at least that I'm aware of.

IMHO "End Game" is a really stupid term that is a bain and is hurting every MMORPG on the market.

To me there is only "Good Game" "Ok Game" or "Bad Game"

People who play any MMORPG 8+ hrs a day every day are just setting themselves up for disapointement with any MMORPG they play.

I'm looking forward to the evolution of GW2

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think the move away from that model towards the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time is what is being referenced as ultra casual.

 

Did you turn sandbox games into ultra casual just like that?

Who is taling about Sandboxes. This whole thing is about Themeparks? 

True true, but many people consider "the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time" a sandbox way of things, just popped into my mind.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I think the move away from that model towards the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time is what is being referenced as ultra casual.

 

Did you turn sandbox games into ultra casual just like that?

Who is taling about Sandboxes. This whole thing is about Themeparks? 

 

True true, but many people consider "the ability to just go anywhere and do anything at any time" a sandbox way of things, just popped into my mind.

Ahhh, wording confusion.

I meant that in the original WoW model, there was a linear progression that has since been chipped away to next to nothing now. and it has been also coined in what's lovingly called "EZ Mode"