Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by jusomdude
It's overblown thread titles and out of proportion promoting of the game that people don't agree with. Trying to say it's something greater than it really is.

I see the same handfull of people(almost all sandbox only fans or strictly raiders) not listening or caring to try to see whats put before them. Then bringing up ridiculous arguments like GW2 questing and leveling being the the same as every MMO that has come before it. You can dislike the game all you like but the reasons so many people bring up are generally just not true at all and come from people who dislike the game because A. It's not a sandbox or B. It doesn't offer wow style raiding.

That's just plain false. The quests offer a few new things which I can see, I just don't see how it's so much better than traditional questing.

I didn't even say it was exactly the same but it boils down to killing and collecting for the DE's I've seen.

Originally posted by Preacher26

 

HEY!

im all about the sandbox, but some of us can still appreciate and enjoy other games or themeparks for what they are.

You other sandboxers are giving us a bad name!

anyway, the people that think raiding is the only endgame are funny. They are obviously generation wow. The same mindset that has put the genre in a horrible state imho.

I love sandbox games as well I just think it's ridiculous people discredit or hate on a game soley based on the fact it's not a sandbox.

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by jusomdude
It's overblown thread titles and out of proportion promoting of the game that people don't agree with. Trying to say it's something greater than it really is.

I see the same handfull of people(almost all sandbox only fans or strictly raiders) not listening or caring to try to see whats put before them. Then bringing up ridiculous arguments like GW2 questing and leveling being the the same as every MMO that has come before it. You can dislike the game all you like but the reasons so many people bring up are generally just not true at all and come from people who dislike the game because A. It's not a sandbox or B. It doesn't offer wow style raiding.

That's just plain false. The quests offer a few new things which I can see, I just don't see how it's so much better than traditional questing.

I didn't even say it was exactly the same but it boils down to killing and collecting for the DE's I've seen.

then you haven't seen many and you are making a overgeneralized assumption on what you think the game is. But again most any RPG games core quests will be about killing and collecting if you don't enjoy that I'd try a differn't genre perhaps, and again presentation is what sets things apart not sure how in the videos I posted earlier or the ones in my sig you can't see the huge difference between how the quests in GW2 are presented and played out compared to other MMOs

Originally posted by Purgatus

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

How do you think the wow community would react if I posted a similiar thread in the wow forums asking for an alternative endgame where gear doesnt matter and everyone would be equal in power as soon as they hit the level cap?

The OP stated GW2 doesnt have an endgame, so he is wrong. Obviously his intent was not to discuss what  types of content could be added in the future to fill the void raiders may feel.

If people enjoy constantly grinding gear, maybe.. just maybe this games not for them. Some people would rather just enjoy a game from day one. Not all of us want a second job. Not all of us want to put in 6 months to hit max level and grind gear so we can be competitive.

Originally posted by Purgatus

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

I agree this thread sort of spun off-topic but mainly from OP's arrogant replies to many posts and suprised it hasn't been locked yet...

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by jusomdude
It's overblown thread titles and out of proportion promoting of the game that people don't agree with. Trying to say it's something greater than it really is.

I see the same handfull of people(almost all sandbox only fans or strictly raiders) not listening or caring to try to see whats put before them. Then bringing up ridiculous arguments like GW2 questing and leveling being the the same as every MMO that has come before it. You can dislike the game all you like but the reasons so many people bring up are generally just not true at all and come from people who dislike the game because A. It's not a sandbox or B. It doesn't offer wow style raiding.

That's just plain false. The quests offer a few new things which I can see, I just don't see how it's so much better than traditional questing.

I didn't even say it was exactly the same but it boils down to killing and collecting for the DE's I've seen.

No, just no.

Originally posted by Preacher26

Originally posted by Purgatus

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

 Obviously his intent was not to discuss what  types of content could be added in the future to fill the void raiders may feel.

That's actually exactly what this post was made for.

Originally posted by Purgatus

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

The thing is, and that you seem to be missing, is that there are end game aspects in GW2 that DO cater to (some of) the hard-core raiders.   I WAS a hardcore raider in WoW and in EQ2, but I find GW2's approach to be a breath of fresh air.  

I was a hard core raider in order to SEE the content and to get some of the gear because...wait for it...I liked how it looked.   The extra power and extra stats was never an incentive to me.  Simply because I am smart enough to understand that when content is tiered, the extra power is an illusion...because along with the extra power comes more difficulty, which just levels the field right back to where it was.

GW2 has plenty to do, even for people who were hard core raiders, and that is all others in this thread have been pointing out.

Just because someone can not see the forest through the trees does not mean the forest is not there.

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Preacher26

Originally posted by Purgatus

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

 Obviously his intent was not to discuss what  types of content could be added in the future to fill the void raiders may feel.

That's actually exactly what this post was made for.

But the percentage of the playerbase that actually raids is quite low. Should content be made just for these people?

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Preacher26

Originally posted by Purgatus

Though I don't agree with the OP at all, his post here was not to look at what "Endgame" in GW2 is or is not, but come up with alternate possibilities for Endgame that cater more to the Hard-Core raiders.

You don't have to agree with his views, but trying to convince him to like Endgame as it is in GW2 is just a wast of time.

 Obviously his intent was not to discuss what  types of content could be added in the future to fill the void raiders may feel.

That's actually exactly what this post was made for.

if that was exactly your intent you should of worded the OP a bit differn't because how i and most people read it was that endgame is either lacking or non existant so what are ideas to change that. 

Locking this thread while I clean it.

Everybody take five.

EDIT:  Okay, everybody back in the pool.  Keep it civil people.

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by jusomdude
It's overblown thread titles and out of proportion promoting of the game that people don't agree with. Trying to say it's something greater than it really is.

I see the same handfull of people(almost all sandbox only fans or strictly raiders) not listening or caring to try to see whats put before them. Then bringing up ridiculous arguments like GW2 questing and leveling being the the same as every MMO that has come before it. You can dislike the game all you like but the reasons so many people bring up are generally just not true at all and come from people who dislike the game because A. It's not a sandbox or B. It doesn't offer wow style raiding.

That's just plain false. The quests offer a few new things which I can see, I just don't see how it's so much better than traditional questing.

I didn't even say it was exactly the same but it boils down to killing and collecting for the DE's I've seen.

You know.... even D&D i played since forever boils down to killing and collecting... what exactly is your point?

The DE are more than enough an evolution

+ quests don't have autogroup

+ quests don't scale up/down 

+ quests don't reward your actual efforts. You either succeed or not. DE reward you depending on your contribution (gold,silver,bronze)

+ quests are bound to the character, events are bound to the world

+ quests start when a character trigger them, events start even without players around

+ quests don't fail. You try them until you succeed. Events can fail (and you will rewarded even for a failed event)

+ quests don't have impact on the world.

+ quests have text telling you what's happening and what you need to do. Events follow the big rule of narrative "show don't tell"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don't_tell

That's impressive and the biggest evolution in the genre in years. More than enough in my book

Originally posted by otacu

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by jusomdude
It's overblown thread titles and out of proportion promoting of the game that people don't agree with. Trying to say it's something greater than it really is.

I see the same handfull of people(almost all sandbox only fans or strictly raiders) not listening or caring to try to see whats put before them. Then bringing up ridiculous arguments like GW2 questing and leveling being the the same as every MMO that has come before it. You can dislike the game all you like but the reasons so many people bring up are generally just not true at all and come from people who dislike the game because A. It's not a sandbox or B. It doesn't offer wow style raiding.

That's just plain false. The quests offer a few new things which I can see, I just don't see how it's so much better than traditional questing.

I didn't even say it was exactly the same but it boils down to killing and collecting for the DE's I've seen.

You know.... even D&D i played since forever boils down to killing and collecting... what exactly is your point?

 

The DE are more than enough an evolution

+ quests don't have autogroup

+ quests don't scale up/down 

 

+ quests don't reward your actual efforts. You either succeed or not. DE reward you depending on your contribution (gold,silver,bronze)

+ quests are bound to the character, events are bound to the world

+ quests start when a character trigger them, events start even without players around

+ quests don't fail. You try them until you succeed. Events can fail (and you will rewarded even for a failed event)

+ quests don't have impact on the world.

+ quests have text telling you what's happening and what you need to do. Events follow the big rule of narrative "show don't tell"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don't_tell

 

 

That's impressive and the biggest evolution in the genre in years. More than enough in my book

I agree.  I've posted this before but it's worth repeating... every time I see someone make a post saying GW2 DE's are like all other MMO's quests because it's still kill X, collect Y, escort Z, I think "what are they looking for, fall in love quests? grow a garden quests? foot race quests?".  And I like the post above... what exactly do you expect me to do with my sword? lol

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by otacu

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by jusomdude
It's overblown thread titles and out of proportion promoting of the game that people don't agree with. Trying to say it's something greater than it really is.

I see the same handfull of people(almost all sandbox only fans or strictly raiders) not listening or caring to try to see whats put before them. Then bringing up ridiculous arguments like GW2 questing and leveling being the the same as every MMO that has come before it. You can dislike the game all you like but the reasons so many people bring up are generally just not true at all and come from people who dislike the game because A. It's not a sandbox or B. It doesn't offer wow style raiding.

That's just plain false. The quests offer a few new things which I can see, I just don't see how it's so much better than traditional questing.

I didn't even say it was exactly the same but it boils down to killing and collecting for the DE's I've seen.

You know.... even D&D i played since forever boils down to killing and collecting... what exactly is your point?

 

The DE are more than enough an evolution

+ quests don't have autogroup

+ quests don't scale up/down 

 

+ quests don't reward your actual efforts. You either succeed or not. DE reward you depending on your contribution (gold,silver,bronze)

+ quests are bound to the character, events are bound to the world

+ quests start when a character trigger them, events start even without players around

+ quests don't fail. You try them until you succeed. Events can fail (and you will rewarded even for a failed event)

+ quests don't have impact on the world.

+ quests have text telling you what's happening and what you need to do. Events follow the big rule of narrative "show don't tell"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don't_tell

 

 

That's impressive and the biggest evolution in the genre in years. More than enough in my book

I agree.  I've posted this before but it's worth repeating... every time I see someone make a post saying GW2 DE's are like all other MMO's quests because it's still kill X, collect Y, escort Z, I think "what are they looking for, fall in love quests? grow a garden quests? foot race quests?".  And I like the post above... what exactly do you expect me to do with my sword? lol

Those who complain DE are like other MMOs quests are those who only lvled up 4-5 and ran around only in starter zone doing hearts.

From lvl 15 zones up to lvl 80 then we can talk about really fun DE that shape the world around you and beyond, but these haters play for 2-3 levels in start zone and only see the hearts and the basic DE.

I've read through the entire post, except for most of page 14. Fortunately the 1 good thing this thread does, is show the quality of people that will most likely stick with GW2. And why is it, that most people that don't have any intention of playing GW2 for any length of time must start threads about what they percieve is wrong with the game?

Ihmo to answer the OP's question. We will not know how "end-game" is untill we reach it. With GW2 being B2P, the most your out if you don't like is 60$.

Originally posted by Torgrim

 

 

Those who complain DE are like other MMOs quests are those who only lvled up 4-5 and ran around only in starter zone doing hearts.

From lvl 15 zones up to lvl 80 then we can talk about really fun DE that shape the world around you and beyond, but these haters play for 2-3 levels in start zone and only see the hearts and the basic DE.

i don't even think it's that it's mostly people who never tried the game.. for example in the asura area you generally run into 3 or 4 DE's as soon as you step foot off the starter area.. You have the one to defend the robots then watch them battle in the arena. You are the one where swarms of those flying things(forgot name its one of necros summons) spawn right outside town then you also have the bandits that invade the starter area stealing boxes which you need to fend off with the help of the golem guards.. Events are all over even at level 1

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Torgrim

 

 

Those who complain DE are like other MMOs quests are those who only lvled up 4-5 and ran around only in starter zone doing hearts.

From lvl 15 zones up to lvl 80 then we can talk about really fun DE that shape the world around you and beyond, but these haters play for 2-3 levels in start zone and only see the hearts and the basic DE.

i don't even think it's that it's mostly people who never tried the game.. for example in the asura area you generally run into 3 or 4 DE's as soon as you step foot off the starter area.. You have the one to defend the robots then watch them battle in the arena. You are the one where swarms of those flying things(forgot name its one of necros summons) spawn right outside town then you also have the bandits that invade the starter area stealing boxes which you need to fend off with the help of the golem guards.. Events are all over even at level 1

Yes that's true but they are in basic design the more complex ones with plenty on follow up chains and bigger chance of fail starts at lvl15 zone up to lvl 80.

Those in startzones are more like at taste what's to come and  not so complex.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Torgrim

 

 

Those who complain DE are like other MMOs quests are those who only lvled up 4-5 and ran around only in starter zone doing hearts.

From lvl 15 zones up to lvl 80 then we can talk about really fun DE that shape the world around you and beyond, but these haters play for 2-3 levels in start zone and only see the hearts and the basic DE.

i don't even think it's that it's mostly people who never tried the game.. for example in the asura area you generally run into 3 or 4 DE's as soon as you step foot off the starter area.. You have the one to defend the robots then watch them battle in the arena. You are the one where swarms of those flying things(forgot name its one of necros summons) spawn right outside town then you also have the bandits that invade the starter area stealing boxes which you need to fend off with the help of the golem guards.. Events are all over even at level 1

 

Yes that's true but they are in basic design the more complex ones with plenty on follow up chains and bigger chance of fail starts at lvl15 zone up to lvl 80.

Those in startzones are more like at taste what's to come and  not so complex.

i agree I was just stating many who complain and say games questing is just like other games and such I don't feel ever tried the game since you see the DE's at least in their simplest forms right for the start.

Originally posted by Size-Twelve

Ok this is just how I plan to play for one example of "endgame":

 

• Level to 80
• Finish personal Story
• Go back to any interesting zones I missed looking for new DE's
• Start 100% map completion hunt
• Play WvW
• Learn siege weapons, tactics, have fun
• Try to help my server become competitive
• Join Chef's guild and learn to cook
• Become WvW commander
• Start structured PvP
• Run explorable dungeons to help guild farm for gear
• Attain 100% map completion

 

That will take me FOREVER. I probably won't get through that list until many expansions from now, and there will be even more to do at that point. All the "endgame" I need is already in game.

Very concisely put.  Unfortunately, people who have an understanding of GW2, both endgame and otherwise, in this case....are wasting their energy trying to convince someone who has already decided they know more about GW2 than anyone else does.  I suggest sparing yourself.  From reading the rest of this thread it's easy to see that he's not listening and was probably never even interested in the very topic he posted, other than hearing what he, himself, had to say.

Great post though. :)