ok so,coming from someone who hasnt gotten acess to the bwe's but has looked up alot of info on mesmers(im aware that the shatter mechanic could be changed.and its beta,so who knows what will happen)but in terms of the difficulty of mesmers i figured it was because of how complex the shattering mechanic is

but ive been thinkin lately,for people who have had acess to the bwe's and have played mesmers and kinda looked up alot of info on them.are they generally trying to make them easier to play or just make the mechanics that make them harder to play easier,cuz it seems like with the change to shattering in bwe3 that there kinda tryin to make the more complex aspects of a mesmer easier to play

cuz it seems like now with the shattering mechanic.you can trait to summon  a clone(or at least last i checked)whenever you dodge.so in terms of the shattering mechanic wouldnt it just be as simple as facerolling your dodge 3 times and then smashing one of the F1-F4 skills(considering you clone pretty much runs up to the person and then explodes now.i thought before it just exploded where you were at so you had more of a timing thing with shatter),im just wondering in terms of the reason everyone considers mesmers a hard profession to play are they kinda tryin to make them easier now or is the shatter mechanic not the reason why or is the majority of complaints about mesmers now the fact that there underpowered compared to some professions and not really because of there mechanic

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

ok so,coming from someone who hasnt gotten acess to the bwe's but has looked up alot of info on mesmers(im aware that the shatter mechanic could be changed.and its beta,so who knows what will happen)but in terms of the difficulty of mesmers i figured it was because of how complex the shattering mechanic is

but ive been thinkin lately,for people who have had acess to the bwe's and have played mesmers and kinda looked up alot of info on them.are they generally trying to make them easier to play or just make the mechanics that make them harder to play easier,cuz it seems like with the change to shattering in bwe3 that there kinda tryin to make the more complex aspects of a mesmer easier to play

cuz it seems like now with the shattering mechanic.you can trait to summon  a clone(or at least last i checked)whenever you dodge.so in terms of the shattering mechanic wouldnt it just be as simple as facerolling your dodge 3 times and then smashing one of the F1-F4 skills(considering you clone pretty much runs up to the person and then explodes now.i thought before it just exploded where you were at so you had more of a timing thing with shatter),im just wondering in terms of the reason everyone considers mesmers a hard profession to play are they kinda tryin to make them easier now or is the shatter mechanic not the reason why or is the majority of complaints about mesmers now the fact that there underpowered compared to some professions and not really because of there mechanic

 

 

 

 

I tried out the Mesmer and to be honest..... im not quite sure what you were trying to say but yes they were a "challenge" to play...far as saying their under-powered I don't think its fair to say as the game hasn't released but BASED off of what I saw on the BWE.

They're squishy just like all cloth wearers so you gotta play em smart but I guess my biggest complaint was that it seemed the clones never really lasted long enough IMO. I could be wrong and this could change with spec and playing it a little bit more. I will say they need maybe a few more neat tricks up their sleeve as Necro and Ele seemed to have a loaded deck.

/shrug my 2 cent.

Originally posted by MartyrA2J

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

ok so,coming from someone who hasnt gotten acess to the bwe's but has looked up alot of info on mesmers(im aware that the shatter mechanic could be changed.and its beta,so who knows what will happen)but in terms of the difficulty of mesmers i figured it was because of how complex the shattering mechanic is

but ive been thinkin lately,for people who have had acess to the bwe's and have played mesmers and kinda looked up alot of info on them.are they generally trying to make them easier to play or just make the mechanics that make them harder to play easier,cuz it seems like with the change to shattering in bwe3 that there kinda tryin to make the more complex aspects of a mesmer easier to play

cuz it seems like now with the shattering mechanic.you can trait to summon  a clone(or at least last i checked)whenever you dodge.so in terms of the shattering mechanic wouldnt it just be as simple as facerolling your dodge 3 times and then smashing one of the F1-F4 skills(considering you clone pretty much runs up to the person and then explodes now.i thought before it just exploded where you were at so you had more of a timing thing with shatter),im just wondering in terms of the reason everyone considers mesmers a hard profession to play are they kinda tryin to make them easier now or is the shatter mechanic not the reason why or is the majority of complaints about mesmers now the fact that there underpowered compared to some professions and not really because of there mechanic

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tried out the Mesmer and to be honest..... im not quite sure what you were trying to say but yes they were a "challenge" to play...far as saying their under-powered I don't think its fair to say as the game hasn't released but BASED off of what I saw on the BWE.

They're squishy just like all cloth wearers so you gotta play em smart but I guess my biggest complaint was that it seemed the clones never really lasted long enough IMO. I could be wrong and this could change with spec and playing it a little bit more. I will say they need maybe a few more neat tricks up their sleeve as Necro and Ele seemed to have a loaded deck.

/shrug my 2 cent.

In normal over world dynamic events. clones dont do much IMO because the mobs you're fighting have little health and dont last long enough for the clones to make a great difference.  Mesmers really come into their own though when you start talking about boss fights and PvP. 

That simple mechanic was enough for me to not like them since I plan on spending the majority of my time in PvE DE's (or so I hope).

"Mesmers really come into their own though when you start talking about boss fights and PvP.

yeah,they seem pretty good for a pvp profession and i like the whole deception and trickery aspects of them its just im still on the fence because of the shattering mechanic and how it seems to work.it just seems like its alot of timing and micro management involved and the complexity of the mechanic just turns me off

i do plan on pvping alot though,which is why i still havent just completely gave up on mesmers.they do seem to be pretty powerful in pvp

Mesmer is quite the fun class to play I'm sure you won't be dissapointed, they can do good damage with conditions, have some of the longest duration combo fields, and the stealth and clone trickery well pays off when learned. I also think is one of the most beginner friendly classes but is still complex because of the shatter skills. Shatters cooldowns are 15, 30, 45, and 60 seconds respectively and once you know how to make good use of them you'll be well rewarded, they are also not as squishy as people think, they have plenty of stuns, stun breaks, stealth and knockbacks + chaos armor and good boon back up that along the clones to confuse people there is plenty of defensive play to be had. Also their health pool is not bad at all with just over 20k average on sPvP.

Generating clones has nothing to do with the challenges Mesmers face.

Builds that rely on clones/shatter for damage are having real issues, because Mind Wrack and Confusion have had thier damage reduced. Add in clones' tendency to buy the farm before they do anything useful, die the moment the mob they are on dies (if that was only 2 seconds, oh well), overwrite phantasms (who provide more damage and utility), still don't look enough like the Mesmer to fool anyone, and take too long to run to the target to shatter....

Look, I love Mesmers. But any Mesmer build reliant on clones (Looking at you, sceptre) is going to be a bit weak.

On the bright side, Anet's aware and says they are targeting Mesmers specifically at the moment.

"Look, I love Mesmers. But any Mesmer build reliant on clones (Looking at you, sceptre) is going to be a bit weak."

meh i was just generally lookin at clones cuz i heard mantras sucked and phantasms were bugged and OP that one bwe but they sucked for shattering

As a player who has played a Mesmer as his main for all 3 BWEs I have to admit that the people who have played the mesmer class are quite conflicted on several issues.

1. There seems to be a certain group of Mesmer players who believe that the clones in fact to not last long enough. However most of us believe that if the clones lasted any longer the class would not be balanced.
2. The shatters are known to have some issues but overall seem to work fine. Its just that because of the weakness of the clones the timing has got to be very exact to acomplish what you want.
3. Everyone agrees that the scpter is VERY underpowered. This was brought up in the Mesmer forums quite a bit and was actually addressed by a dev. The dev appologized that they did not get around to updating and looking at the abilities of the scepter because it was on the "back burner" but would be "fixed" by Launch.

I actually played mostly PvE and my Mesmer played very well. I'm not a huge PvP player but did check out SPvP before the end og BWE3 and realy thought the mesmer was just as enjoyable to play in that arena as the PvE one. I hope this helps.

Mesmer need some fixes in order to make them "playable"

let put some examples:

Dinamyc Events , when a swarm of mobs come

your clones/illusions dont last long enough because mobs die to fast

Bosses , Aoe goes and byebye goes your phantasm or clone.... (but who cares about clones anyway 0 dmg)

Shatter mechanic? needs a fix , teleport clones to target or something like that (or maybe a movement speed buff....something!

Staff is random so random isnt fun , 1 attack is random debuff buff , the shield generates a random buff too , the Chaos storm? YEAH RANDOM

would love to see the staff changed to a more dps weapon ( GS is godd for dps still... )

sword as main hand is ok , as off hand is meh

pistol as offhand is awesome too  bad we cant dual pistols!

the sceptre.....generating clones on autoattack SUCKS, the 2 buff is meh (long casting time ) 3 skill is ok a channeling dot

MANTRAS : sucks , havint to precast something in PVP is always fail

/rant off

Still enjoyed the mesmer in PVP , having like 4 skills to go stealth , Trying to confuse my enemies with my clones/phantams....was cool.....until

CTRL + CLICK (or was CTRL T?) = puts a huge red mark in your head = there goes all the tricks u have....

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

*snip*

but ive been thinkin lately,for people who have had acess to the bwe's and have played mesmers and kinda looked up alot of info on them.are they generally trying to make them easier to play or just make the mechanics that make them harder to play easier,cuz it seems like with the change to shattering in bwe3 that there kinda tryin to make the more complex aspects of a mesmer easier to play

cuz it seems like now with the shattering mechanic.you can trait to summon  a clone(or at least last i checked)whenever you dodge.so in terms of the shattering mechanic wouldnt it just be as simple as facerolling your dodge 3 times and then smashing one of the F1-F4 skills(considering you clone pretty much runs up to the person and then explodes now.i thought before it just exploded where you were at so you had more of a timing thing with shatter),im just wondering in terms of the reason everyone considers mesmers a hard profession to play are they kinda tryin to make them easier now or is the shatter mechanic not the reason why or is the majority of complaints about mesmers now the fact that there underpowered compared to some professions and not really because of there mechanic

There's a lot of different issues wrapped up in that last (sentence?).

1) People consider mesmers a hard class to play, because in general they are one of the least straight-forward. They are also one of the more complex classes. The shatter mechanic is part of this, but it's not the only reason. Managing clones efficiently is important, you also don't want to overwrite clones if you can avoid it. On top of that is the element of confusion, constantly trying to keep the enemy off guard. Mesmers also have a lot of situational skills that can be very powerful, but need to be used at the right times / in the right situations.

2) Mesmer's aren't underpowered. There are certain aspects of the class people don't like (they think the first shatter ability is too weak, they don't like how clones work, etc.). They aren't necessarily wrong, but as I said above, there is more to the mesmer class than just the shatter ability. Also keep in mind that there are 4 types of shatters that you need to manage. A damager, confusion (enemy takes dmg on skill use), a daze, and distortion (makes you invulnerable for a few seconds). Most of the complaints are only talking about the first shatter ability (the damager). The others are pretty damned strong, just short in duration.

- Basically, a good mesmer is invaluable to a team. They can completely nullify certain classes if the person knows what they are doing. They excell in 1v1 situations, but I've seen good mesmers take on groups pretty effectively. When partnered with a guardian they are also insanely annoying to deal with. However, timing is very important to playing a mesmer well. A lot of there skills don't do anything unless you use them in the right situations. For example, popping a stun when someone isn't using any skills is usually a waste. Or casting confusing on a character that's kiting (when someones running they aren't using many skills, and as such won't be taking much damage). Or if you throw down a null field, when you don't have any conditions, or your enemy has no boons.

- There are ways to play a mesmer more simplistically, though. A greatsword mesmer can be specced to do a ton of spike damage, and sense it doesn't focus much on boons or conditions, that's a lot of stuff u don't really have to worry much about.

Originally posted by Skuall

Mesmer need some fixes in order to make them "playable"

Mesmer played fine for me through level 28 in bw3.

Dinamyc Events , when a swarm of mobs come

 Use sword aoes.

your clones/illusions dont last long enough because mobs die to fast

Bosses , Aoe goes and byebye goes your phantasm or clone.... (but who cares about clones anyway 0 dmg)

Phantasmal mage and warlock plus staff clone shooting Wind of Chaos.  Wind of Chaos stacks burn and bleed on the boss, while buffing allies (not 0 damage).

Shatter mechanic? needs a fix , teleport clones to target or something like that (or maybe a movement speed buff....something!

I would like to see an improvement with the pathfinding and reliability of shattered illusions. 

Staff is random so random isnt fun , 1 attack is random debuff buff , the shield generates a random buff too , the Chaos storm? YEAH RANDOM

I like the randomness involved with the staff abilities.

would love to see the staff changed to a more dps weapon ( GS is godd for dps still... )

Staff provides good support, I hope it stays as it is currently.  The scepter seemed like it fit the DPS role but performed horribly as has been mentioned above.

sword as main hand is ok , as off hand is meh

I agree sword is good main hand and meh offhand.  I like torch offhand.

pistol as offhand is awesome too  bad we cant dual pistols!

I didn't try pistol yet, maybe with the improved scepter.

the sceptre.....generating clones on autoattack SUCKS, the 2 buff is meh (long casting time ) 3 skill is ok a channeling dot

Yep, scepter sucked.

MANTRAS : sucks , havint to precast something in PVP is always fail

 Agreed, mantras sucked.  I used three signets.

CTRL + CLICK (or was CTRL T?) = puts a huge red mark in your head = there goes all the tricks u have....

This is a good point and I hope the targeting gets some attention so it doesn't nullify the illusions.

Originally posted by Zooce

Originally posted by Skuall

Mesmer need some fixes in order to make them "playable"

Mesmer played fine for me through level 28 in bw3.

Dinamyc Events , when a swarm of mobs come

 Use sword aoes.

your clones/illusions dont last long enough because mobs die to fast

Bosses , Aoe goes and byebye goes your phantasm or clone.... (but who cares about clones anyway 0 dmg)

Phantasmal mage and warlock plus staff clone shooting Wind of Chaos.  Wind of Chaos stacks burn and bleed on the boss, while buffing allies (not 0 damage).

He specifically said clones do 0 damage, which is the reason i quit my mesmer. 

Shatter mechanic? needs a fix , teleport clones to target or something like that (or maybe a movement speed buff....something!

I would like to see an improvement with the pathfinding and reliability of shattered illusions. 

The mechanic is fun like it is

Staff is random so random isnt fun , 1 attack is random debuff buff , the shield generates a random buff too , the Chaos storm? YEAH RANDOM

I like the randomness involved with the staff abilities.

would love to see the staff changed to a more dps weapon ( GS is godd for dps still... )

Staff provides good support, I hope it stays as it is currently.  The scepter seemed like it fit the DPS role but performed horribly as has been mentioned above.

sword as main hand is ok , as off hand is meh

I agree sword is good main hand and meh offhand.  I like torch offhand.

pistol as offhand is awesome too  bad we cant dual pistols!

I didn't try pistol yet, maybe with the improved scepter.

the sceptre.....generating clones on autoattack SUCKS, the 2 buff is meh (long casting time ) 3 skill is ok a channeling dot

Yep, scepter sucked.

MANTRAS : sucks , havint to precast something in PVP is always fail

 Agreed, mantras sucked.  I used three signets.

CTRL + CLICK (or was CTRL T?) = puts a huge red mark in your head = there goes all the tricks u have....

This is a good point and I hope the targeting gets some attention so it doesn't nullify the illusions.

 

My main problem with Mesmers, is that the combat heavilly based on illusions does not commect.  Its fun in PvP tough, but not in PvE.

The Shatter mechanics need some tweaking for PVE (in PVP they aren't as weak)

I ended up using either 1 or 4 as my shatters, 1 for damage and 4 for the defensive buff - distortion, but usually I was just using 1 (Mind Wrack)

Confusion is horrible in PVE, mobs have very slow casting/attack speeds and Daze for a single second won't matter anyway because again mob attack speed is horrible. I don't want an attack speed increase, just a way to make shatters 2 and 3 more viable in PVE

Illusions need to last a bit longer, they die with a single hit of many mobs. Also the target marking makes the illusions useless in PVP...

I really liked Pistol as an offhand weapon. Scepter was meh, Staff was random but quite powerful with the proper condition damage build.

F2 need to last longer 5s at least 2s is nothing

F3 is weak

F4 was usefull under focus fire (cant remember if was usable while stuned) anyway saved my ass lots of time in PVP

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Zooce

Originally posted by Skuall

your clones/illusions dont last long enough because mobs die to fast

Bosses , Aoe goes and byebye goes your phantasm or clone.... (but who cares about clones anyway 0 dmg)

Phantasmal mage and warlock plus staff clone shooting Wind of Chaos.  Wind of Chaos stacks burn and bleed on the boss, while buffing allies (not 0 damage).

He specifically said clones do 0 damage, which is the reason i quit my mesmer. 

I used the case of the Staff clone from skill "Phase Retreat" because they usually survive boss aoe by attacking from range.  Their attack hits for 0, but can apply burning or bleeding so not really 0 damage.

Shatter mechanic? needs a fix , teleport clones to target or something like that (or maybe a movement speed buff....something!

I would like to see an improvement with the pathfinding and reliability of shattered illusions. 

The mechanic is fun like it is

I agree, only issue I had was a clone got hung up on a rock when I shattered.  So I would hope they are able to walk around obstacles.

My main problem with Mesmers, is that the combat heavilly based on illusions does not commect.  Its fun in PvP tough, but not in PvE.

Originally posted by Zooce

I agree, only issue I had was a clone got hung up on a rock when I shattered.  So I would hope they are able to walk around obstacles.

I hope illusions wouldn't need to go around rocks, but "through" them, so the Shatter mechanic is more reliable. If the illusions shadow stepped to the target that would be even better, as they are, the shatter mechanic is generally unreliable

I enjoyed the mesmer last BWE, only played to level 8. he was pretty squishy, but around lvl 6 or 7 I picked up a root spell he was almost overpowered.  Don't know what they wil be like at release of course but I plan on my main to be either a mesmer or a ranger

Biggest issue I've noticed seems to be focused in PvE. Their clones dies just so quickly they can never be utilized and they really don't end up helping you all that much. I think they are quite weak in that department and need help, though for a pvp standpoint its quite hard to say.

If you trait for mantras, they are diesel.

Harmonius Mantras- a mantra gives you two channels instead of one

Empowering Mantra- increases your damage for each readied mantra

Mantra Mastery- reduces the cooldown after use

Use mantra of recovery and mantra of pain. Congrats, you now have a heal you can use twice in a row, a instant cast ranged  direct damage you can use twice in a row, and while they are primed you get a pretty nice damage boost.

I can see a point on mantras for pve, but in pvp you are crippling yourself using them, the charge time is atrocious.

I really dont find the Mesmer class hard to learn nor use,  there are other classes that are just very easy to get, the Warrior for example.

In my opinion the class have a ton of potential but is half done, they have time till release but im not sure will be enough, it needs a ton of work yet.