I'm not normally an "every silver lining has a dark cloud" person. However, the GW2 featureby which a character who has been defeated lies on the ground, disabled, and with new abilties, some of which are useful and some not, I'm ambivalent about.

On the silver lining side, you are lucky enough to be able to target a foe low enough in health to be able to defeat; or there are enough allies near so that someone might defeat your target, revive you, or use a skill that auto-revives allies.  In any of these cases, all is well, and the feature seems cool.

On the dark cloud side, you're alone, or haven't a prayer to see your target defeated, or if there are enough enemies that your alleis are in full retreat, then your going to go to the next stage of defeat, but you're going to have to wait until the enemy finishes you off.  I'm not sure I apprecaite the feature under these circumstances.

Where are others on this issue, or is this a "which side of the roll is the toilet paper hanging from" issue?

Typically an enemy will finish you off fast anyway. If they ignore you the devs had added an ability where you self heal yourself and can revive quite quickly if taking no damage.

Not knowing the system entirely perfectly yet (haven't played enough to formulate solid opinions) I would think that the only way you could spend any length time in downed state is if an enemy is purposely trying to delay your death or recovery. If that is the case then you would likely have to be totally alone and that is unlikely. A player would have to go far out of their way to grief ... even if it is possible.

Originally posted by Scarlyng

I'm not normally an "every silver lining has a dark cloud" person. However, the GW2 featureby which a character who has been defeated lies on the ground, disabled, and with new abilties, some of which are useful and some not, I'm ambivalent about.

On the silver lining side, you are lucky enough to be able to target a foe low enough in health to be able to defeat; or there are enough allies near so that someone might defeat your target, revive you, or use a skill that auto-revives allies.  In any of these cases, all is well, and the feature seems cool.

On the dark cloud side, you're alone, or haven't a prayer to see your target defeated, or if there are enough enemies that your alleis are in full retreat, then your going to go to the next stage of defeat, but you're going to have to wait until the enemy finishes you off.  I'm not sure I apprecaite the feature under these circumstances.

Where are others on this issue, or is this a "which side of the roll is the toilet paper hanging from" issue?

You don't have to wait for the enemy to finish you off. In most cases (especially in wvw), you'll be "finished off" quite quickly. If you're in pve, if the npc's don't finish you off, you can slowly heal yourself back up from the downed state. Either way, in 99% of the times, you'll either be healed or finished off in less than 2 min. I played over 30 hrs in the first bwe and played all 8 hrs of the stress test and not once was I left there alone waiting to be finished off.

The down state was really designed for those 'down to the last hp' fights. Much like your example. 

It is not intended for you to kill the next full health mob and rally. If you are overwhlmed then you will be defeated. If there's a fighting chance maybe you can scrape through.

The real question is this: Do you prefer down state or immediate death?

Originally posted by Magnetia

The down state was really designed for those 'down to the last hp' fights. Much like your example. 

It is not intended for you to kill the next full health mob and rally. If you are overwhlmed then you will be defeated. If there's a fighting chance maybe you can scrape through.

The real question is this: Do you prefer down state or immediate death?

At first I was skeptical of the downed state, however, after playing gw2 I really liked the downed state. Most of the times I was finished off, but there were enough times that I was healed that I think its worth having the downed state.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Magnetia

The down state was really designed for those 'down to the last hp' fights. Much like your example. 

It is not intended for you to kill the next full health mob and rally. If you are overwhlmed then you will be defeated. If there's a fighting chance maybe you can scrape through.

The real question is this: Do you prefer down state or immediate death?

At first I was skeptical of the downed state, however, after playing gw2 I really liked the downed state. Most of the times I was finished off, but there were enough times that I was healed that I think its worth having the downed state.

^ This, but it also pisses me off in pvp, when im channeling to "toss the banner" to get the kill and get interrupted by the downed player... now that just blows, i beat him! he shouldn't be able to get up OR beat me, no matter how low my HP is.

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Magnetia

The down state was really designed for those 'down to the last hp' fights. Much like your example. 

It is not intended for you to kill the next full health mob and rally. If you are overwhlmed then you will be defeated. If there's a fighting chance maybe you can scrape through.

The real question is this: Do you prefer down state or immediate death?

At first I was skeptical of the downed state, however, after playing gw2 I really liked the downed state. Most of the times I was finished off, but there were enough times that I was healed that I think its worth having the downed state.

^ This, but it also pisses me off in pvp, when im channeling to "toss the banner" to get the kill and get interrupted by the downed player... now that just blows, i beat him! he shouldn't be able to get up OR beat me, no matter how low my HP is.

Think of it like this. How many Fights haven't you seen ending with one guy beating the other to the ground and going for the kill only to get knifed in the chest and lose. 

The other player is knocked down but isn't dead yet so don't treat him as dead.

Originally posted by Scarlyng

....or if there are enough enemies that your alleis are in full retreat, then your going to go to the next stage of defeat, but you're going to have to wait until the enemy finishes you off. 
.

if the enemy doesn't finish you off - simply spam the heal button to get back up into it.

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Magnetia

The down state was really designed for those 'down to the last hp' fights. Much like your example. 

It is not intended for you to kill the next full health mob and rally. If you are overwhlmed then you will be defeated. If there's a fighting chance maybe you can scrape through.

The real question is this: Do you prefer down state or immediate death?

At first I was skeptical of the downed state, however, after playing gw2 I really liked the downed state. Most of the times I was finished off, but there were enough times that I was healed that I think its worth having the downed state.

^ This, but it also pisses me off in pvp, when im channeling to "toss the banner" to get the kill and get interrupted by the downed player... now that just blows, i beat him! he shouldn't be able to get up OR beat me, no matter how low my HP is.

Think of it like this. How many Fights haven't you seen ending with one guy beating the other to the ground and going for the kill only to get knifed in the chest and lose. 

The other player is knocked down but isn't dead yet so don't treat him as dead.

LMAO... that's happened to me way to many times! I went for the kill and they were up before I knew it. I will say though, several times, when my allies were in retreat, I went for the kill anyway, knowing that my enemies would kill me. Shortly after stabbing the banner on someone else, they were doing it to me lol... I love wvw!

To me the only bad is in pvp, when u are trying to kill someone and they use an escape or last minute kill ability.

On the PVE side of things, there is nothing bad, it's fantastic :)

I like this mechanism a lot, it brings this 'heroic' element to some fights and ArenaNet have stated that it is a core element of gameplay. Meaning that it is not wrong or shamefull to go down, you don't lose as you have still ways to get up and continue fightning. Can't wait for some 5 man dungeons as I'm quite sure it is kind of enviroment the mechanic will start to shine even more!

Originally posted by Scarlyng

I'm not normally an "every silver lining has a dark cloud" person. However, the GW2 featureby which a character who has been defeated lies on the ground, disabled, and with new abilties, some of which are useful and some not, I'm ambivalent about.

 

On the silver lining side, you are lucky enough to be able to target a foe low enough in health to be able to defeat; or there are enough allies near so that someone might defeat your target, revive you, or use a skill that auto-revives allies.  In any of these cases, all is well, and the feature seems cool.

 

On the dark cloud side, you're alone, or haven't a prayer to see your target defeated, or if there are enough enemies that your alleis are in full retreat, then your going to go to the next stage of defeat, but you're going to have to wait until the enemy finishes you off.  I'm not sure I apprecaite the feature under these circumstances.

 

Where are others on this issue, or is this a "which side of the roll is the toilet paper hanging from" issue?

The "dark cloud" situation is one players and the dev team have both expressed a concern with in the past. I remember seeing a request for a  "just give up and die" option. I wonder if that would affect pvp scores though, because I believe there's some kind of bonus for killing someone in a downed state. If players could break out of downed easrly and just die, it might be a way of robbing their opponents of points.

For pve, keep in mind that if the enemy can't finish you off fast and no one is around to help you, you might be able to use 4 to heal...and if not, 2 and 3 for most classes are VERY powerful. Mesmer has a teleport that can get them away from enemies and give them a chance to heal. Thieves have a shadestep/stealth. Warriors get a free rez....provided they can kill their opponent fast enough once they're up, or they die.

Although in pve situations whre there's 50 mobs beating on you and little hope of rescue, I can see it being annoying to have to sit there and be beat down.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Magnetia

The down state was really designed for those 'down to the last hp' fights. Much like your example. 

It is not intended for you to kill the next full health mob and rally. If you are overwhlmed then you will be defeated. If there's a fighting chance maybe you can scrape through.

The real question is this: Do you prefer down state or immediate death?

At first I was skeptical of the downed state, however, after playing gw2 I really liked the downed state. Most of the times I was finished off, but there were enough times that I was healed that I think its worth having the downed state.

That's about where I am.

I kind of see your point OP.  I just love the downed state, for some of the reasons you suggested, because the mechanic encourages cooperation between allies.  My brother and I would get in fights in WvW, one of us would go down, the other would knockback the opponent, and rez the other.  It really was quite fun and exciting.  I also love that you can heal yourself back if no enemy pays attention to you, something that happens quite a bit.   

However, maybe there should be a "suicide" button, that allows you to die instantly.  I'm a little worried that would take away from the satisfaction of someone  "finishing" you though.  It might also complicate who gets credit for your death as well. Personally, I don't think this is needed, and might even take away from the game.

I'm pretty indifferent to this feature. The only thing I can say is that it looks a bit weird to a new player. You don't know what hte 4 skills are, you have never seen them before. You don't have time to mouse over and look at them. You can actually use them even while the "fight ot the death" thing is there...

I ended up avoiding a lot of deaths with it, though.

Originally posted by Irus

I'm pretty indifferent to this feature. The only thing I can say is that it looks a bit weird to a new player. You don't know what hte 4 skills are, you have never seen them before. You don't have time to mouse over and look at them. You can actually use them even while the "fight ot the death" thing is there...

I ended up avoiding a lot of deaths with it, though.

I think you can actually see description of downed skills in 'Skills' menu. Not sure though.

Originally posted by thedarkess

Originally posted by Irus

I'm pretty indifferent to this feature. The only thing I can say is that it looks a bit weird to a new player. You don't know what hte 4 skills are, you have never seen them before. You don't have time to mouse over and look at them. You can actually use them even while the "fight ot the death" thing is there...

I ended up avoiding a lot of deaths with it, though.

I think you can actually see description of downed skills in 'Skills' menu. Not sure though.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_skills

Use the class skill links on this page, you can then cursor down and see that classes downed skills (at least in the 4 classes I've looked at...

This is just one of many things that is different from other games and will take some time to learn.

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Originally posted by terrant

For pve, keep in mind that if the enemy can't finish you off fast and no one is around to help you, you might be able to use 4 to heal...and if not, 2 and 3 for most classes are VERY powerful. Mesmer has a teleport that can get them away from enemies and give them a chance to heal. Thieves have a shadestep/stealth. Warriors get a free rez....provided they can kill their opponent fast enough once they're up, or they die.

 

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Red part: Not completely true. The warrior's third downed skill temporarily rallies you and kills you at the end. The only way around this is a certain major trait in the last trait line, which gives you a chance to permanently rally when you kill something.

I like the idea! Anything different or a change is a good thing; stear away from the clones.  I have found it very useful when my son and I are playing, it is a challenge to try and keep the mobs off of each other when one of us is down.  My only problem is is that I haven't actually examined the bar because when I'm down I'm frantically pressing buttons trying to stay alive. I'm sure after I play a few more times I will study it a bit more! :)