The most recent launches I have participated in were RIFT and TOR:

-both were a little shaky in the betas at first than greatly smoothed out in successive weekend testing periods.

-both had relatively stable and were mostly free of game-breaking-bugs at launch

-both had sizeable queue times initially

-TOR headstart was amazing and worked very well

I expect about the same from GW2 and Anet, however the queue server should (if working as advertised/intended) eliminate the queue issues, even if it means having to wait an hour or so to join up with friends, at least I'll still be playing and advancing my toon.

" has "when it's ready" changed your expectations and what you're willing to accept? "

well after their point "when its ready" and all these betas i wouldnt accept a release like Diablo III, but like Rift or SWtoR, but someone can respond and say that always there something tiny go wrong and we a have 1-2 laggy days, for example all these resarvations might cause problem on day2 after the final release ..."

but this i wont accept would be major bugs like i saw in SWtoR ..! that means i want to see correct voices and not missing textures ..!

i want to believe that the client we have for the BWE is kinda older than this one they have for the closed beta ...

I am willing to wait for one quarter for a pre-purchased game - no longer.

To counterbalance this I am keen to see the game released complete and playable with ease.

I saw the beautiful looking, rich lore-filled, gritty and gloriously dark Age of Conan have it's potential massacred by an early release and by the kind of customer support which would end up in fisticuffs if done face to face.

I want to see GW2 succeed - and so I am stoic and patient.

However - let me re-iterate - no more than 3 months after parting with my money - pay attention ANet....

IMO, "when it's ready" is always the best release date.  Case and point, Blizzard.

Blizzard is INFAMOUS for delaying the release of their games until they feel that they are phenomenal (recent exceptions may apply).  And because of this, they have become one of the most respected and lucrative developers in the industry.

I mean, think about it.  You spend years of time and millions of dollars developing a game, and then you're going to push it out 6 months early and risk it flopping?  Why?  If you have the funds, I think it's ALWAYS a better option to not release it until you feel it's 100% ready to go.

I'm fine with them tell us the public that. I got to believe internally they have a date otherwise you can polish the cannon for a long time. 

Originally posted by Caliburn101

I am willing to wait for one quarter for a pre-purchased game - no longer.

To counterbalance this I am keen to see the game released complete and playable with ease.

I saw the beautiful looking, rich lore-filled, gritty and gloriously dark Age of Conan have it's potential massacred by an early release and by the kind of customer support which would end up in fisticuffs if done face to face.

I want to see GW2 succeed - and so I am stoic and patient.

However - let me re-iterate - no more than 3 months after parting with my money - pay attention ANet....

 Okay..so first, I will admit that I'm not a fan of using beta access as a marketing tactic, which I believe that ANet did.  But honestly, so many people wanted in the beta that they couldn't accomodate everyone, so the pre-purchase thing wasn't a horrible way to let their more dedicated fans in.

That aside though, YOU prepurchased a game with no release date in sight.  So I don't really see how you can start making "demands."  You basically signed a contact that said that you will receive the game "sometime" in 2012, and you will get to participate in beta events.  That's it. 

Nowhere was it promised that you would get the game in 3 months.  That is your own assumption and nothing else.

You always had the option of just waiting until ANet gave a release date or until the game came out.  There is no "implicit" promise in your pre-purchase that you're going to get the game in 3 months.

IOriginally posted by Creslin321

IMO, "when it's ready" is always the best release date.  Case and point, Blizzard.

Blizzard is INFAMOUS for delaying the release of their games until they feel that they are phenomenal (recent exceptions may apply).  And because of this, they have become one of the most respected and lucrative developers in the industry.

I mean, think about it.  You spend years of time and millions of dollars developing a game, and then you're going to push it out 6 months early and risk it flopping?  Why?  If you have the funds, I think it's ALWAYS a better option to not release it until you feel it's 100% ready to go.

I played the beta of Diablo 3 and felt it was quite polished as it was. I think where they fell down was not testing and stressing the severs enough. I think Blizzard also felt pressure to release the game as do many others. Also Blizzard has more than one game being worked on and that is a problem. and they are a small division even though they are part of Activision.

A.Net always said, when it is ready - I think that stems from being very conservative and figuring the worst will happen. The stress test and the blogs after that - suggest the are working on the same premise.

"When its ready" changes my expectations in regards to the player-developer relations by lowering them. To me, developers using the line comes off as condescending toward their fans - as though we were children waiting to know when we could touch the dessert mom is baking. In no other industry that  I've seen is that sort of line considered acceptable, and I guarantee that neither Anet nor Blizzard are feeding it to their shareholders. It's indicitive of the attitudes on both sides of player-developer relations - that so many consumers of games lap those words up, while the devs feel the need to pat our heads while keeping us in line at the same time. Blizzard is especially guilty of this, if you've ever seen the way their community relations rep (aka "Ghostcrawler") addresses the WoW fanbase as though they were petulant children on a regular basis), or in the generally dismissive attitude they voice toward some complaints about their decisions. It was a turn off when Anet first used the phrase, but so far I've seen only mild examples elsewhere of a condescending attitude in their media relations and modus operandi, so I'm keeping optimistic, not letting it put a damper on my anticipation for GW2.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Caliburn101

I am willing to wait for one quarter for a pre-purchased game - no longer.

To counterbalance this I am keen to see the game released complete and playable with ease.

I saw the beautiful looking, rich lore-filled, gritty and gloriously dark Age of Conan have it's potential massacred by an early release and by the kind of customer support which would end up in fisticuffs if done face to face.

I want to see GW2 succeed - and so I am stoic and patient.

However - let me re-iterate - no more than 3 months after parting with my money - pay attention ANet....

 Okay..so first, I will admit that I'm not a fan of using beta access as a marketing tactic, which I believe that ANet did.  But honestly, so many people wanted in the beta that they couldn't accomodate everyone, so the pre-purchase thing wasn't a horrible way to let their more dedicated fans in.

That aside though, YOU prepurchased a game with no release date in sight.  So I don't really see how you can start making "demands."  You basically signed a contact that said that you will receive the game "sometime" in 2012, and you will get to participate in beta events.  That's it. 

Nowhere was it promised that you would get the game in 3 months.  That is your own assumption and nothing else.

You always had the option of just waiting until ANet gave a release date or until the game came out.  There is no "implicit" promise in your pre-purchase that you're going to get the game in 3 months.

I don't know if you are from the UK or not but I am - and being such, am protected by unreasonable delivery delays of purchased goods (where precise delivery date is NOT pre-stated) by the Sale of Goods Act 1979. These are called my Statutory Rights - and I didn't waive them when I paid up.

So that is not 'it' I can assure you....

There being no 'implicit' promise in my pre-purchase therefore plays into my hands - not theirs....

Your position would seem to be that contracts can be worded in such a way as to override the law in a way a judge will be happy with?

They can't you know....

Consumers should pay more attention to their rights and keep suppliers focussed on their duties as sellers.... that way we all benefit, and they don't try to get away with ignoring the rights our ignorance robs us of utilising.

Oh and BTW -  I don't beleive ANet are like this in the slightest, but I DO want my game in a reasonable timeframe....

.... surely a relevant post in light of what my expectations are.... it can be 'ready when it's ready' only so long as it is 'reasonable' now money has changed hands.

Originally posted by QuicklyScott

Originally posted by Blakkrskyrr

i'd expect there to be some problems, but the biggest reason I really have respect for them is that they are making it for the game itself, the actual developers to be proud of, and for the gamers to enjoy to their fullest potential.  It doesn't look like they are in it for the money.  I am tired of developers spitting out games like they do on the pot, because most times they use the hype from their original game to be a sell point for the next one, and it turns out to be their shit.

Sorry, but I had to lol.  Ofcourse they are, if they wern't, the price wouldn't be as high and there wouldn't be a cash shop.  Not that I'm hating.  

Everyone wants money.

 

I think what he means is that they're 'we'll make a great game which will make us a boatload of money' instead of the EA/BioWare approach which is 'how can we deliver the least amount for the most amount and cash-in?'    That's why companies like BioWare give us games like DA2, SWTOR and crap endlings like ME3 (with bs day 1 DLC of major characters)

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Caliburn101

I am willing to wait for one quarter for a pre-purchased game - no longer.

To counterbalance this I am keen to see the game released complete and playable with ease.

I saw the beautiful looking, rich lore-filled, gritty and gloriously dark Age of Conan have it's potential massacred by an early release and by the kind of customer support which would end up in fisticuffs if done face to face.

I want to see GW2 succeed - and so I am stoic and patient.

However - let me re-iterate - no more than 3 months after parting with my money - pay attention ANet....

 Okay..so first, I will admit that I'm not a fan of using beta access as a marketing tactic, which I believe that ANet did.  But honestly, so many people wanted in the beta that they couldn't accomodate everyone, so the pre-purchase thing wasn't a horrible way to let their more dedicated fans in.

That aside though, YOU prepurchased a game with no release date in sight.  So I don't really see how you can start making "demands."  You basically signed a contact that said that you will receive the game "sometime" in 2012, and you will get to participate in beta events.  That's it. 

Nowhere was it promised that you would get the game in 3 months.  That is your own assumption and nothing else.

You always had the option of just waiting until ANet gave a release date or until the game came out.  There is no "implicit" promise in your pre-purchase that you're going to get the game in 3 months.

I don't know if you are from the UK or not but I am - and being such, am protected by unreasonable delivery delays of purchased goods (where precise delivery date is NOT pre-stated) by the Sale of Goods Act 1979. These are called my Statutory Rights - and I didn't waive them when I paid up.

So that is not 'it' I can assure you....

There being no 'implicit' promise in my pre-purchase therefore plays into my hands - not theirs....

Your position would seem to be that contracts can be worded in such a way as to override the law in a way a judge will be happy with?

They can't you know....

Consumers should pay more attention to their rights and keep suppliers focussed on their duties as sellers.... that way we all benefit, and they don't try to get away with ignoring the rights our ignorance robs us of utilising.

Oh and BTW -  I don't beleive ANet are like this in the slightest, but I DO want my game in a reasonable timeframe....

.... surely a relevant post in light of what my expectations are.... it can be 'ready when it's ready' only so long as it is 'reasonable' now money has changed hands.

Except, they aren't in breach of said act. Both you, the buyer, and ArenaNet agreed upon the year 2012 as to when you will receive the product. Neither you nor ArenaNet agreed upon a specific date you'll receive said product, as long as it's within the year 2012. You agreed to part with your money knowing that you'll receive your product at some unspecified date in the future. SINCE 2012 lasts until December 31st at 11:59P.M., as long as you receive your product before then, they are not in breach of the Sale of Goods Act. 

Here is basically what you agreed upon when you parted with your money:

1) You will receive the product at some unspecified date within the year of 2012.

2) You will receive access to events known as Beta Weekend Events.

3) You will be given 3 days early access to the product.

4) Whatever else you agreed upon depending on which version you purchased.

Re the OP, yes, I have high expectations about the release quality of GW2, and they sure can't be let off the hook with an excuse that release was rushed due to financial constraints, as some other MMOs could be.

That said, from what I've played, everything has seemed very smooth, so I doubt I'll have many issues with it.

Originally posted by bookworm438

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Caliburn101

I am willing to wait for one quarter for a pre-purchased game - no longer.

To counterbalance this I am keen to see the game released complete and playable with ease.

I saw the beautiful looking, rich lore-filled, gritty and gloriously dark Age of Conan have it's potential massacred by an early release and by the kind of customer support which would end up in fisticuffs if done face to face.

I want to see GW2 succeed - and so I am stoic and patient.

However - let me re-iterate - no more than 3 months after parting with my money - pay attention ANet....

 Okay..so first, I will admit that I'm not a fan of using beta access as a marketing tactic, which I believe that ANet did.  But honestly, so many people wanted in the beta that they couldn't accomodate everyone, so the pre-purchase thing wasn't a horrible way to let their more dedicated fans in.

That aside though, YOU prepurchased a game with no release date in sight.  So I don't really see how you can start making "demands."  You basically signed a contact that said that you will receive the game "sometime" in 2012, and you will get to participate in beta events.  That's it. 

Nowhere was it promised that you would get the game in 3 months.  That is your own assumption and nothing else.

You always had the option of just waiting until ANet gave a release date or until the game came out.  There is no "implicit" promise in your pre-purchase that you're going to get the game in 3 months.

I don't know if you are from the UK or not but I am - and being such, am protected by unreasonable delivery delays of purchased goods (where precise delivery date is NOT pre-stated) by the Sale of Goods Act 1979. These are called my Statutory Rights - and I didn't waive them when I paid up.

So that is not 'it' I can assure you....

There being no 'implicit' promise in my pre-purchase therefore plays into my hands - not theirs....

Your position would seem to be that contracts can be worded in such a way as to override the law in a way a judge will be happy with?

They can't you know....

Consumers should pay more attention to their rights and keep suppliers focussed on their duties as sellers.... that way we all benefit, and they don't try to get away with ignoring the rights our ignorance robs us of utilising.

Oh and BTW -  I don't beleive ANet are like this in the slightest, but I DO want my game in a reasonable timeframe....

.... surely a relevant post in light of what my expectations are.... it can be 'ready when it's ready' only so long as it is 'reasonable' now money has changed hands.

Except, they aren't in breach of said act. Both you, the buyer, and ArenaNet agreed upon the year 2012 as to when you will receive the product. Neither you nor ArenaNet agreed upon a specific date you'll receive said product, as long as it's within the year 2012. You agreed to part with your money knowing that you'll receive your product at some unspecified date in the future. SINCE 2012 lasts until December 31st at 11:59P.M., as long as you receive your product before then, they are not in breach of the Sale of Goods Act. 

Here is basically what you agreed upon when you parted with your money:

1) You will receive the product at some unspecified date within the year of 2012.

2) You will receive access to events known as Beta Weekend Events.

3) You will be given 3 days early access to the product.

4) Whatever else you agreed upon depending on which version you purchased.

 Exactly...I'm not from the UK, but I read over a paraphrased version of the relevant section of the SGSA and here is what it says:

s.14 SGSA implies a term where the service is carried out in the course of a business and no time is specified, that the service will be carried out within a reasonable time. What is considered a reasonable time is a question of fact and will depend on the circumstances.

ANet has stated that the game will be released in 2012.  So that is when you can expect the product.  You may think that they have to deliver it in three months, but that's not what the law says...and I don't really think your case would stand up in court.

And honestly, even if the game is delayed past 2012, I think you would have a tough time suing NCSoft for it.  Because delays in the video game industry are extremely common, and it may be considered "reasonable" that your product isn't delivered until a few weeks after the promised date.

Now...if GW2 gets canceled and you don't get a refund, then I'm sure you could take them to court.

Originally posted by Creslin321

IMO, "when it's ready" is always the best release date.  Case and point, Blizzard.

Blizzard is INFAMOUS for delaying the release of their games until they feel that they are phenomenal (recent exceptions may apply).  And because of this, they have become one of the most respected and lucrative developers in the industry.

And yet, WoW still ranks as one of the worst releases ever, in terms of pure stability issues.

Case in point that proves extra waiting isn't always beneficial?

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Creslin321

IMO, "when it's ready" is always the best release date.  Case and point, Blizzard.

Blizzard is INFAMOUS for delaying the release of their games until they feel that they are phenomenal (recent exceptions may apply).  And because of this, they have become one of the most respected and lucrative developers in the industry.

And yet, WoW still ranks as one of the worst releases ever, in terms of pure stability issues.

Case in point that proves extra waiting isn't always beneficial?

 It's also, by far, the most successful MMORPG released ever.  Launch issues aside, you can't deny that WoW was and is still the king of MMORPGs and has probably made Blizzard more money than any game they have ever released.

Make of that what you will ;).

Originally posted by Creslin321

 It's also, by far, the most successful MMORPG released ever.  Launch issues aside, you can't deny that WoW was and is still the king of MMORPGs and has probably made Blizzard more money than any game they have ever released.

Make of that what you will ;).

the sales dont make someone king of his genre, its like you are saying "cause Hollywood movies are blockbusters they are also good movies ..."

WoW already from the Warcraft III RoC & tFT series had a huge fanbase, familiar to CounterStrike, when they made the MMO they already had millions of fan waiting for this game, like they done with Diablo III, they release mediocre games which are supporting from huge fanbase and combining with average consumer support it isnt hard to achieve huge profits ..!

anyway back on WoW's release i remember it was the same moto "when its ready" or "soon" ?

I'm generally indiferrent to launch issues or bugginess or w/e. I only care about the actual game.

I don't accept or expect anything, I just see if I like the game, that's all.

Originally posted by loulaki

they release mediocre games

To say they release mediocre games there have to be better ones. Where are they?

Originally posted by Irus

I'm generally indiferrent to launch issues or bugginess or w/e. I only care about the actual game.

I don't accept or expect anything, I just see if I like the game, that's all.

Originally posted by loulaki

they release mediocre games

To say they release mediocre games there have to be better ones. Where are they?

well i dont care if you are blizzard's fan or not, my opinion that blizzard creates mediocre games which are just well polished and have good customer support, its my opinion and you have a different one and this thread is not about blizzard : )

back on topic i see that Anet try to prove that they are trustworthy developers, so i dont care if there are some 1-2bugs, but with major issues it will be bad for their image ... and already they turned off spectator mode for sPvP, so even on release we wont have a full game (the GuildWars was famous for its e-sport and its sequel try to achieve this too, but without spectator mode it will take more time... )

i hope you understand my point : )

p.s. i am not any hater, already i wait for my Collectors Edition of GW2 ; )

Originally posted by Distopia

Time and time again companies announce a release date  and bust their asses to meet it, yet it usually results in a not so hot product launch. Even single player entries seem to be doing this today.

In turn many of us have grown to expect and accept these recurring launch period problems. Does that expectation and acceptance change, when a company is promising something different?

Will you accept the typical issues we see today when it comes to GW2?

(just wanted to add, lets think in the areas of lack of content, optimization, game-breaking bugs, the sorts of things a longer development period should change)

Seriously, I'd much rather see them take their time, and get it at least mostly "right" right outside of the box.

I was willing to wait around for Diablo III, and their refusal to set a launch date until THEY felt it was almost ready was totally acceptable to me, and it was standard Blizzard practice since before Diablo II's launch.

As much expectation as people have built up for GW2, I'd rather see it meet those expectations rather than massively disappoint, like another major title we're all seeing being torn to shreds on these forums now (SW:TOR).

 Crelin321 & bookworm438