Originally posted by kanezfan

 

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Originally posted by lasttime
This just dawned on me but another interesting thing is the fact the beta before the prepurchasing was under nda. Making it so that people who were trying it out that didn't have to commit by prepurchasing couldn't tell you their opinion of the game. So if someone didn't like it they couldn't say anytihng. I'm not saying that was the goal or anything just another interesting piece. I am aware that the press beta had good reviews. I don't count those as I feel that the only opinion that matters are the gamers themselves.

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Every game in the world that has a closed beta also has a NDA but I guess you're trying to troll and imply that Anet is an evil company trying to lie to the world.

lol no. I don't think ArenaNet is evil. They are making a game that tons of people will love.

Originally posted by kanezfan

 

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Originally posted by lasttime
This just dawned on me but another interesting thing is the fact the beta before the prepurchasing was under nda. Making it so that people who were trying it out that didn't have to commit by prepurchasing couldn't tell you their opinion of the game. So if someone didn't like it they couldn't say anytihng. I'm not saying that was the goal or anything just another interesting piece. I am aware that the press beta had good reviews. I don't count those as I feel that the only opinion that matters are the gamers themselves.

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Every game in the world that has a closed beta also has a NDA but I guess you're trying to troll and imply that Anet is an evil company trying to lie to the world.

He is doing it not bad thou, he came with an interesting aprouch. But the main purpose isnt study the marketing and sales tatics for sure lol

Originally posted by kanezfan

 

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Originally posted by lasttime

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Originally posted by kanezfan People who pre-ordered SWTOR were pumped for that game as well but there was a ton of disappointment posts during the beta for that. Everything that Anet promised is in the game right now and it works as advertised. Basically Anet is competent and people are really happy with the game. I've ever read posts here from former haters who tried the game and changed their tune.

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True but that game didn't require you to pay for the game in its entirety. Also you didn't need to pay at all to be in the beta as I tried during the one weekend anyone could try it.

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Yes but the reaction was terrible. The reaction for GW2 hasn't been terrible. Try harder.

Because people who were going to dislike SWTOR were able to try it. To try GW2 I would have to prepurchase it. That requires me to be pretty sure I like it before even playing it.

I'll be honest I didn't even look at this game untill last month. I was looking for a game that was feature rich and after about two days of reading posts and looking at videos I prepurchased the game. This was before I found out that prepurchase gave me access to the beta events. As far as I am concerned the beta events are jsut a bonus. Also after seeing the beta events I am convinced the game is within 6 months of release.

GW2 has many of the features I have been writing about in forums for the past 3 years. I hope that Arenanet will keep developing the feature they have and introducing new ones along the way.

In the age of social media, it doesn't matter how much marketing you do, a failed product remains a failed product. Yes, you have to pre-purchase to get guarenteed access. Yes, those who pre-purchased are those who already liked what they saw of the game enough to buy it. We will be biased, however, we are biased in such a way that if we don't like what we saw during beta, you can almost be assured that everyone who had paid would make sure that everyone who had not yet purchased would know exactly what kind of crap they were about to buy. ArenaNet took one hell of a gamble on the Pre-Purchase + Beta weekend. Had it not been awesome, they could have flopped their game even before it launched. People enjoyed it, dispite the bumps that occured. And no amount of marketing will make you like something that you tried and hated. 

I still see commercials for TOR and no matter how cool they look, i won't buy the game.

Originally posted by Nefera

Originally posted by lasttime

 Also does anyone know the number of active players the last bwe?

I've seen a "hundreds of thousands" thrown around in a twitter post by one of the community managers. Not sure if a more accurate figure has been released.

24 US and 24 EU servers heavily populated. So lets say 10 000 per server? And you get nearly half million.

Originally posted by RathanX26

In the age of social media, it doesn't matter how much marketing you do, a failed product remains a failed product. Yes, you have to pre-purchase to get guarenteed access. Yes, those who pre-purchased are those who already liked what they saw of the game enough to buy it. We will be biased, however, we are biased in such a way that if we don't like what we saw during beta, you can almost be assured that everyone who had paid would make sure that everyone who had not yet purchased would know exactly what kind of crap they were about to buy. ArenaNet took one hell of a gamble on the Pre-Purchase + Beta weekend. Had it not been awesome, they could have flopped their game even before it launched. People enjoyed it, dispite the bumps that occured. And no amount of marketing will make you like something that you tried and hated. 

I still see commercials for TOR and no matter how cool they look, i won't buy the game.

 

Wouldn't a bigger gamble be to allow anyone to beta test it with out having to spend any money?

Originally posted by bookworm438

While yes, it's brilliant marketing, you also need to remember that you don't have to prepurchase to get into beta. The only way to GUARANTEE your access to beta is to prepurchase. However, it's possible that you'll be selected to participate in a BWE if you signed up beta access back in February.

I have yet to see the FIRST person say that they got into the game because they were lucky and got selected to participate.

The games at fast food restaurants work the same way. They say "no purchase necesary", and that you only have to send them mail and they give you a game piece. How many people do you know do this? While it is POSSIBLE, I am pretty sure a very high percentage of those that played in the beta weekends pre-purchased.

Back to the point though, GW2 does have faults that could have caused huge uproars had the mayority of their playerbase been general community players: Login issues, Lag Issues, autorepeating "quests", cash shop dependancies to open some loot, ect ect. But the fact that those that are currently playing are the fans that see no wrong in what ANet does, the voices of reason get shut down.

Anything you say, that in any concievable way, can be interpreted as "bad" about the game, will immediately be tackled by what some forum users are calling "GW2 white knights" and "Damage control". This is actually quite unique to GW2 because while other games do have their fans, normal players and haters, the fans that have played the game are at a much higher proportion to the normal player that have played the game, and the haters just do not have the access to the game to show believable complaints.

So, I agree, it is brilliant marketting that I hope NEVER catches on. If it does, this will be the one surefire way to give companies the advantage in siphoning money from the players for mediocre or downright bad content.

With that said, I hope all those that payed for the privilage of playing beta are enjoying it. And I REALLY hope that the current issues with the game get resolved before release, because if it doesn't, it will affect the rest of the playerbase in a negative fashion since it will be telling other developers that they can overhype a game, collect money, and give the players garbage in return. Access to beta should NEVER be guaranteed if you buy or pre-order a game, and instead should be done through pure sampling of the general population. If its done the way GW2 is doing it, the feedback and reviews will be heavily skewed in favor of the game.

Originally posted by RathanX26

In the age of social media, it doesn't matter how much marketing you do, a failed product remains a failed product. Yes, you have to pre-purchase to get guarenteed access. Yes, those who pre-purchased are those who already liked what they saw of the game enough to buy it. We will be biased, however, we are biased in such a way that if we don't like what we saw during beta, you can almost be assured that everyone who had paid would make sure that everyone who had not yet purchased would know exactly what kind of crap they were about to buy. ArenaNet took one hell of a gamble on the Pre-Purchase + Beta weekend. Had it not been awesome, they could have flopped their game even before it launched. People enjoyed it, dispite the bumps that occured. And no amount of marketing will make you like something that you tried and hated. 

I still see commercials for TOR and no matter how cool they look, i won't buy the game.

 

That's a comment in hindsight. You wouldn't know something is a fail product till it failed. You wouldn't know that great marketing didn't sell the product because the product is selling well.

Originally posted by Sephastus

Originally posted by bookworm438

While yes, it's brilliant marketing, you also need to remember that you don't have to prepurchase to get into beta. The only way to GUARANTEE your access to beta is to prepurchase. However, it's possible that you'll be selected to participate in a BWE if you signed up beta access back in February.

I have yet to see the FIRST person say that they got into the game because they were lucky and got selected to participate.

The games at fast food restaurants work the same way. They say "no purchase necesary", and that you only have to send them mail and they give you a game piece. How many people do you know do this? While it is POSSIBLE, I am pretty sure a very high percentage of those that played in the beta weekends pre-purchased.

Back to the point though, GW2 does have faults that could have caused huge uproars had the mayority of their playerbase been general community players: Login issues, Lag Issues, autorepeating "quests", cash shop dependancies to open some loot, ect ect. But the fact that those that are currently playing are the fans that see no wrong in what ANet does, the voices of reason get shut down.

Anything you say, that in any concievable way, can be interpreted as "bad" about the game, will immediately be tackled by what some forum users are calling "GW2 white knights" and "Damage control". This is actually quite unique to GW2 because while other games do have their fans, normal players and haters, the fans that have played the game are at a much higher proportion to the normal player that have played the game, and the haters just do not have the access to the game to show believable complaints.

So, I agree, it is brilliant marketting that I hope NEVER catches on. If it does, this will be the one surefire way to give companies the advantage in siphoning money from the players for mediocre or downright bad content.

With that said, I hope all those that payed for the privilage of playing beta are enjoying it. And I REALLY hope that the current issues with the game get resolved before release, because if it doesn't, it will affect the rest of the playerbase in a negative fashion since it will be telling other developers that they can overhype a game, collect money, and give the players garbage in return. Access to beta should NEVER be guaranteed if you buy or pre-order a game, and instead should be done through pure sampling of the general population. If its done the way GW2 is doing it, the feedback and reviews will be heavily skewed in favor of the game.

Very true. I hope the game comes out to be just as good as everyone anticipated but I'm also not a fan of how the beta was done.

Originally posted by lasttime

This post isn't about the quality of the game or whether its good or bad its just about something I found rather ingenious. ArenaNet shows some footage of the... /yahdeyah

So, what you are saying is that people who have bought it and the press that have played it LIKE IT?

Excellent, then we agree.

The game is good, as good as the marketing has said it would be.

Originally posted by Nefera

 

If you want to see some amazing marketing, have a look at games that are highly hyped while being a lot less transparent than ArenaNet is with GW2. Especially the games that had a very high hype till launch, and then lost a good portion of gamers (a.k.a. "failed") a while afterwards. If the marketing department could sell a doomed product that well, the marketing has to be top notch.

I thought this was the best thought on the topic so far. OP, I understand where you are coming from.  Only the most hyped about the game would pre-purchase the game and gain access to the non-NDA Beta Weekend to hype it up for everyone else. It's a good strategy.  However, the best marketing departments will be the ones that are selling a doomed product, not a great product.  The marketing department for good games don't have to work as hard as those of bad games, it's just that simple.  

Originally posted by kanezfan

People who pre-ordered SWTOR were pumped for that game as well but there was a ton of disappointment posts during the beta for that.

Everything that Anet promised is in the game right now and it works as advertised. Basically Anet is competent and people are really happy with the game. I've ever read posts here from former haters who tried the game and changed their tune.

Actually those should've gone to Gamescom or other conventions as well :) I've been on the past 3 editions of Gamescom and hadn't put much research into GW2 before that but I was completely blown away by the demo and other information presented. Also some of the actual devs were on the showfloor as much as they could spare the time for it as opposed to other companies that just put some community team members in their boothe and maybe have a few panels with 1 or 2 devs but stay in the business areas doing pre-arranged interviews for the rest of the time.
Yes that's also part of the good marketing, but having been able to have a short conversation with some of the Anet team showed me how passionate they really are about their game and dedicated to making it good. That wasn't fake marketing talk with people who went through acting classes for it, but face to face human communication.

Of the other big upcoming games during those past 3 editions I found SW:TOR and Tera the most underwhelming both from my brief hands on time with the games and the actual information provided. And after release I'm still underwhelmed as much so I guess hands on experience on game shows actually do give you a valid impression about the game.

After I returned from the show that enthusiastic about GW2 fro two consecutive years this also started to trigger friends to look into the game and all of them prepurchased although they normally wouldn't and most of them disliked the original GW. They weren't dissapointed during the BWE that I passed my hype on to them either :)

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by lasttime

This post isn't about the quality of the game or whether its good or bad its just about something I found rather ingenious. ArenaNet shows some footage of the... /yahdeyah

 

So, what you are saying is that people who have bought it and the press that have played it LIKE IT?

Excellent, then we agree.

The game is good, as good as the marketing has said it would be.

Well good or bad is an opinion but yes if people playing it enjoy then all the better.

Originally posted by lasttime

Originally posted by RathanX26

In the age of social media, it doesn't matter how much marketing you do, a failed product remains a failed product. Yes, you have to pre-purchase to get guarenteed access. Yes, those who pre-purchased are those who already liked what they saw of the game enough to buy it. We will be biased, however, we are biased in such a way that if we don't like what we saw during beta, you can almost be assured that everyone who had paid would make sure that everyone who had not yet purchased would know exactly what kind of crap they were about to buy. ArenaNet took one hell of a gamble on the Pre-Purchase + Beta weekend. Had it not been awesome, they could have flopped their game even before it launched. People enjoyed it, dispite the bumps that occured. And no amount of marketing will make you like something that you tried and hated. 

I still see commercials for TOR and no matter how cool they look, i won't buy the game.

 

Wouldn't a bigger gamble be to allow anyone to beta test it with out having to spend any money?

Who is more likely to give honest feedback, people who bought the game and liked it/disliked it, or anyone who could get?

Originally posted by Finit

Originally posted by Nefera

 

If you want to see some amazing marketing, have a look at games that are highly hyped while being a lot less transparent than ArenaNet is with GW2. Especially the games that had a very high hype till launch, and then lost a good portion of gamers (a.k.a. "failed") a while afterwards. If the marketing department could sell a doomed product that well, the marketing has to be top notch.

I thought this was the best thought on the topic so far. OP, I understand where you are coming from.  Only the most hyped about the game would pre-purchase the game and gain access to the non-NDA Beta Weekend to hype it up for everyone else. It's a good strategy.  However, the best marketing departments will be the ones that are selling a doomed product, not a great product.  The marketing department for good games don't have to work as hard as those of bad games, it's just that simple.  

Oh absolutely. I'm specifically addressing what GW2 is doing because it is looking successful and because of this we might begin to see the same style used by other companies.

Originally posted by lasttime

This post isn't about the quality of the game or whether its good or bad its just about something I found rather ingenious. ArenaNet shows some footage of the the game here and there not giving away too much but enough to make some assumptions about the game. Does a closed beta followed by a press beta. Then sets up an "open" beta which you get into by prepurchasing the game. Now what they've done with this is have only people who like the game enough, just from the info given out so far, to pay for the game entirely before release. Now those people are the ones populating the beta and surprise they like it which is statistically likely as those people were willing to prepurchase it. (Here what im sressing is not the preordering it which I've done a several times and then been unhappy with the game, but the prepurchasing which requires the the paying of the game entirely.) Now because of this the beta receives nothing but amazing reviews from most everyone in the beta. Just a little thought I had.

Preaching to the choir. Hmmm.

Originally posted by lasttime

Originally posted by Finit

Originally posted by Nefera

 

If you want to see some amazing marketing, have a look at games that are highly hyped while being a lot less transparent than ArenaNet is with GW2. Especially the games that had a very high hype till launch, and then lost a good portion of gamers (a.k.a. "failed") a while afterwards. If the marketing department could sell a doomed product that well, the marketing has to be top notch.

I thought this was the best thought on the topic so far. OP, I understand where you are coming from.  Only the most hyped about the game would pre-purchase the game and gain access to the non-NDA Beta Weekend to hype it up for everyone else. It's a good strategy.  However, the best marketing departments will be the ones that are selling a doomed product, not a great product.  The marketing department for good games don't have to work as hard as those of bad games, it's just that simple.  

Oh absolutely. I'm specifically addressing what GW2 is doing because it is looking successful and because of this we might begin to see the same style used by other companies.

Though you're only looking at the pre-purchase scheme here. How can you be sure they did that as a pure, calculated marketing strategy to get a more biased group in to give better reviews? To me at least, a more logical explanation would be that they need some income to keep the publisher/investors happy, so that they won't get a release date forced on them, with the game releasing too early/buggy.

Originally posted by RathanX26

Originally posted by lasttime

Originally posted by RathanX26

In the age of social media, it doesn't matter how much marketing you do, a failed product remains a failed product. Yes, you have to pre-purchase to get guarenteed access. Yes, those who pre-purchased are those who already liked what they saw of the game enough to buy it. We will be biased, however, we are biased in such a way that if we don't like what we saw during beta, you can almost be assured that everyone who had paid would make sure that everyone who had not yet purchased would know exactly what kind of crap they were about to buy. ArenaNet took one hell of a gamble on the Pre-Purchase + Beta weekend. Had it not been awesome, they could have flopped their game even before it launched. People enjoyed it, dispite the bumps that occured. And no amount of marketing will make you like something that you tried and hated. 

I still see commercials for TOR and no matter how cool they look, i won't buy the game.

 

Wouldn't a bigger gamble be to allow anyone to beta test it with out having to spend any money?

Who is more likely to give honest feedback, people who bought the game and liked it/disliked it, or anyone who could get?

Thats a loaded question because the very much is a phenomenon where people after having spent money  they can't get back convince themselves of the wiseness of their choice. Look at console fanboys. I bought a 360 and its the only system I've played so its clearly the best system even though I've never played a ps3. People have a habit of convincing themselves that they make the best decision even when they didn't.

I'll add that I think you're underestimating players' reasonableness when you assume that everyone who prepurchased the game will automatically, unquestionably like what they try in beta.  If the game truly was bad, or failed to meet the expectations they've developed, players would be absolutely irate--especially so since they already bought the game and couldn't get a refund.  They wouldn't just happily pretend to to enjoy themselves forever.