Originally posted by Nadia

regarding D3,

the 1st day sales of 3.5 million did not include the 1.2 million Annual Pass subs from WOW

D3 was available for preorder 2 months prior to release  (March 15 2012)

 

Guild Wars

2 years ago, GW had exceeded 6.5 million units

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/31/guild-wars-surpasses-6-5-million-sales-sequel-will-be-released/

but that includes all units,  different campaigns, and the one expansion

 

Don't forget The Sims sold 16 million copies, since apparently non-MMO PC game sales are relevant.  

I think GW2 will be the best selling MMORPG this year. Initial box sales should be close to those of TOR, but unlike TOR, I expect the game to see excellent ongoing growth through ongoing, post launch box sales. The game has a good shot of doubling it's at launch sales figures with in three months of launch.

My guess is that GW2 will be double or even triple TOR's box sales.  I don't feel like getting into an essay on why, but still, feel free to throw this back in my face six(?) months from now 

Originally posted by Homitu

Originally posted by Nadia

regarding D3,

the 1st day sales of 3.5 million did not include the 1.2 million Annual Pass subs from WOW

D3 was available for preorder 2 months prior to release  (March 15 2012)

 

Guild Wars

2 years ago, GW had exceeded 6.5 million units

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/31/guild-wars-surpasses-6-5-million-sales-sequel-will-be-released/

but that includes all units,  different campaigns, and the one expansion

 

Don't forget The Sims sold 16 million copies, since apparently non-MMO PC game sales are relevant.  

You would have a point if we werent talking about Guild Wars. MMO or not, we are talking about GW2, so would only make sense to consider GW1 numbers. What is he supposed to talk about GW2 and base its numbers off of a completely different and unrelated MMO like WAR? Common sense ftw

Originally posted by Resiakraw

Originally posted by Homitu

Originally posted by Nadia

regarding D3,

the 1st day sales of 3.5 million did not include the 1.2 million Annual Pass subs from WOW

D3 was available for preorder 2 months prior to release  (March 15 2012)

 

Guild Wars

2 years ago, GW had exceeded 6.5 million units

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/31/guild-wars-surpasses-6-5-million-sales-sequel-will-be-released/

but that includes all units,  different campaigns, and the one expansion

 

Don't forget The Sims sold 16 million copies, since apparently non-MMO PC game sales are relevant.  

You would have a point if we werent talking about Guild Wars. MMO or not, we are talking about GW2, so would only make sense to consider GW1 numbers. What is he supposed to talk about GW2 and base its numbers off of a completely different and unrelated MMO like WAR? Common sense ftw

Guild Wars sales are absolutely relevant, with perhaps several stipulations pertaining to just how drastically different the games are.  GW is also an MMO, at least according to my definition, though others may not agree.  I was only referring to all the D3 talk, which would be about as relevant as Mario Kart Wii selling 32 million copies if it didn't at least share the same platform as GW2.  

Originally posted by fiontar

I think GW2 will be the best selling MMORPG this year. Initial box sales should be close to those of TOR, but unlike TOR, I expect the game to see excellent ongoing growth through ongoing, post launch box sales. The game has a good shot of doubling it's at launch sales figures with in three months of launch.

This ^

Originally posted by Homitu

Guild Wars sales are absolutely relevant, with perhaps several stipulations pertaining to just how drastically different the games are.  GW is also an MMO, at least according to my definition, though others may not agree.  I was only referring to all the D3 talk, which would be about as relevant as Mario Kart Wii selling 32 million copies if it didn't at least share the same platform as GW2.  

i agree

GW seemed like a mmo to me too (even tho ANET never made that claim)

Guild Wars was similar to Dungeons and Dragons Online in respect to

- alot of instancing, only see many players in outposts

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Homitu

Guild Wars sales are absolutely relevant, with perhaps several stipulations pertaining to just how drastically different the games are.  GW is also an MMO, at least according to my definition, though others may not agree.  I was only referring to all the D3 talk, which would be about as relevant as Mario Kart Wii selling 32 million copies if it didn't at least share the same platform as GW2.  

i agree

GW seemed like a mmo to me too (even tho ANET never made that claim)

 

Guild Wars was similar to Dungeons and Dragons Online in respect to

- alot of instancing, only see many players in outposts

 

Keep in mind, in truth, GW1 was originally built as a arena-style group pvp game that jsut happened to have a Pve aspect nailed on. They expenaded on it as the game went by, but it really was never fully a pve mmo. the game was massive, was multiplayer, was without a doubt online, but wasn't much of an RPG. Doesn't mean it was a bad game.

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

 

 

1) I didn't buy D3. You can name someone now.

2) I can name lots more than 1 person that kept GW2 after pre-order

3) Chatastrophic? I mean, I agree /say shoulda been handled better but...(lolz) All kidding aside, if you think that was a bad beta weekend, you ain't seen NOTHING.

4) You're compares apples and aardvarks, really. D3, while a fun rpg with a multiplayer portion, isn't an MMO by the standard definition.

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

1) I didn't buy D3. You can name someone now.

2) I can name lots more than 1 person that kept GW2 after pre-order

3) Chatastrophic? I mean, I agree /say shoulda been handled better but...(lolz) All kidding aside, if you think that was a bad beta weekend, you ain't seen NOTHING.

4) You're compares apples and aardvarks, really. D3, while a fun rpg with a multiplayer portion, isn't an MMO by the standard definition.

Yellow: Facebook sold more than 400 million shares this year, that's way more than D3 sales. I mean, since we're comparing apples and aardvarks... and you did say "nothing".

1) I didn't buy D3, you can add another name to the list.

2) Me, my wife and 15 other friends of mine have bought GW2 (just those in my workplace)

3) I disagree that the beta was catastrophic. Definition of catastrophic: "extremely harmful; bringing physical or financial ruin..." Anet and GW2 are doing just fine, sorry :-)

4) D3 is not an mmo, just like mario kart is not an mmo

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

 

 

That's funny, because my friend likes swtor, and dislikes GW2 & D3 (she didn't buy them). 

I like GW2, and dislike  D3 & swtor (i didn't buy D3 and stopped playing swtor).

Statistics are varied with various people.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

1) I didn't buy D3. You can name someone now.

2) I can name lots more than 1 person that kept GW2 after pre-order

3) Chatastrophic? I mean, I agree /say shoulda been handled better but...(lolz) All kidding aside, if you think that was a bad beta weekend, you ain't seen NOTHING.

4) You're compares apples and aardvarks, really. D3, while a fun rpg with a multiplayer portion, isn't an MMO by the standard definition.

Yellow: Facebook sold more than 400 million shares this year, that's way more than D3 sales. I mean, since we're comparing apples and aardvarks... and you did say "nothing".

1) I didn't buy D3, you can add another name to the list.

2) Me, my wife and 15 other friends of mine have bought GW2 (just those in my workplace)

3) I disagree that the beta was catastrophic. Definition of catastrophic: "extremely harmful; bringing physical or financial ruin..." Anet and GW2 are doing just fine, sorry :-)

4) D3 is not an mmo, just like mario kart is not an mmo

Both Diablo 3 and GW2 are Buy-To-Play, they have prices of similar magnitude, they are multiplayer, they are PC-games and they are RPGs. That's a lot of thing in common that warrants a comparison between the two; however, as I said earlier: this is not the thread for that, since the thread is about MMORPGs specifically. 

Furthermore, due to how SWTOR has been called a Co-op RPG and people compare to SWTOR, comparing to Diablo III becomes even more interesting.

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

 

 

1) I didn't buy D3. 

2) 'Catastrophic'? I'd consider the beta having gone pretty well, considering it's ~BETA~. The beta could have been a lot worse than it was. For me, beta was really fun and relatively problem free. Also, did you prepurchase or preorder? Unless you did a chargeback, how in the world did you participate in the BWE if you preordered? That is unless you were one of those lucky people to get a beta key. 

Comparing GW2 to both D3 and SW:ToR isn't really fair. Those comparing sales have to remember that both D3 and SW:ToR is a more widely known and recognized IP. You'd have to live under a rock to not have heard about those two games. The biggest reason why SW:ToR didn't do quite as good was because it followed the WoW model and it was subscription based. Hence why D3 will do far better in terms of sales than either GW2 and SW:ToR. 

Now for GW2 of itself:

Guild Wars 2 will do very well for itself when it's released. Considering you've got most of the GW1 playerbase (which is quite large), plus the new players that never were interested in GW before. If Anet does good with launch, the game has a potential to continue to grow in the months following release. 

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Both Diablo 3 and GW2 are Buy-To-Play, they have prices of similar maginitude, they are multiplayer, they are PC-games and they are RPGs. That's a lot of thing in common that warrants a comparison between the two; however, as I said earlier: this is not the thread for that, since the thread is about MMORPGs specifically. 

Furthermore, due to how SWTOR has been called a Co-op RPG and people compare to SWTOR, comparing to Diablo III becomes even more interesting.

Zelda is Buy-to-play, if you pay someone for a used copy for $60 its of similar magnitude, you can play it multiplayer, you can play it on the PC (with an emulator) and its an rpg... get my point? Same thing with mario kart, if you role play as mario beating the other racers. Just because there are similarities it does not always warrant a comparison; I mean, compare a red car to a red apple, there's a similarity and a comparison.

D3 is not an mmorpg, GW2 is. Compare D3 to other arpgs not mmorpgs; let's keep our games within their respective genres.

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg

 

 

I know 1 person who got D3 from 1 year WoW sub, 1 who bought it and about a lot who didn't. Also know 2 people who got GW2 and a lot who didn't. It's just as irelevat as your experience, since from mine it would be suggested that the same if not more people would buy GW2.

Not to mention I don't get why you bring D3 in this discution about MMOs, when even you say that you know it's not an MMO. Makes no sence. Or was it just to tell people where you're having more fun and that they are wrong they aren't having fun the same way you are?

Leaving aside the fact that you are comparing a game without release date that is in beta, to one that is released.

Everything you just said has no meaning to this discussion.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Both Diablo 3 and GW2 are Buy-To-Play, they have prices of similar maginitude, they are multiplayer, they are PC-games and they are RPGs. That's a lot of thing in common that warrants a comparison between the two; however, as I said earlier: this is not the thread for that, since the thread is about MMORPGs specifically. 

Furthermore, due to how SWTOR has been called a Co-op RPG and people compare to SWTOR, comparing to Diablo III becomes even more interesting.

Zelda is Buy-to-play, if you pay someone for a used copy for $60 its of similar magnitude, you can play it multiplayer, you can play it on the PC (with an emulator) and its an rpg... get my point? Same thing with mario kart, if you role play as mario beating the other racers. Just because there are similarities it does not always warrant a comparison; I mean, compare a red car to a red apple, there's a similarity and a comparison.

D3 is not an mmorpg, GW2 is. Compare D3 to other arpgs not mmorpgs; let's keep our games within their respective genres.

Zelda stands further away to the MMORPG genre than Diablo III does, specially since heavily instanced games such as SWTOR still counts as "MMORPG", so there is larger merit to compare to Diablo III than it would be to compare to Zelda. The distance does matter. 

Edit: Furthermore, just because something doesn't belong to the exact genre, it doesn't mean it is pointless comparing them. In the Single-Player world, games from different genres are compared very often, specially when it comes to competitions such as "Game of the Year". 

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Both Diablo 3 and GW2 are Buy-To-Play, they have prices of similar maginitude, they are multiplayer, they are PC-games and they are RPGs. That's a lot of thing in common that warrants a comparison between the two; however, as I said earlier: this is not the thread for that, since the thread is about MMORPGs specifically. 

Furthermore, due to how SWTOR has been called a Co-op RPG and people compare to SWTOR, comparing to Diablo III becomes even more interesting.

Zelda is Buy-to-play, if you pay someone for a used copy for $60 its of similar magnitude, you can play it multiplayer, you can play it on the PC (with an emulator) and its an rpg... get my point? Same thing with mario kart, if you role play as mario beating the other racers. Just because there are similarities it does not always warrant a comparison; I mean, compare a red car to a red apple, there's a similarity and a comparison.

D3 is not an mmorpg, GW2 is. Compare D3 to other arpgs not mmorpgs; let's keep our games within their respective genres.

Zelda stands further away to the MMORPG genre than Diablo III does, specially since heavily instanced games such as SWTOR still counts as "MMORPG", so there is larger merit to compare to Diablo III than it would be to compare to Zelda. The distance does matter. 

that depends on what characteristics you are choosing. I'm just simply keeping the games within their genres. D3 is an arpg, GW2 is an mmorpg. SWTOR is an mmorpg, Zelda is not. Actually, if you wanted to compare D3 to anything, you should compare it to Zelda (way better than D3) and even to pokemon.

Silliness aside (comparing arpg's to mmorpgs), after playing D3 for myself, I have to say it is def not worth $60; sure, the graphics are pretty good and I'me even sure the game is fun to play, but for $60? no way!

Edit: I understand what your saying about game of the year, but this thread is about mmorpgs, not games in general

---

Originally posted by Meowhead
Soooooo.... way back.  In the day.  Before SWTOR came out... I suggested that while SWTOR will probably be the new MMORPG with the most subscriptions, I thought that GW2 had a good chance of beating it in total box sales.

Some people seemed to think that was a wholly unreasonable proposition to make, since SWTOR was Bioware + Star Wars and hence unbeatable.

Now that SWTOR's launch has come and gone, and we have a general idea of how many boxes they've sold (More than 2 million, less than 3 million), how reasonable do you think it is that GW2 will be able to beat that?

Is there any other MMORPG that came out last year or is coming out this year that will have even higher box sales?  Tera?  TSW?  RIFT?

Alternatively, what sort of things do you think GW2 has to do by release to assure that it actually DOES sell a lot of copies?  Especially taking into account what we know so far by the Beta Weekend Event.

---

I think GW2 will get a lot of perfect scores from review sites. This will definitely help. I can see it outselling SWTOR. I dont see it outselling MoP in 2012. Eventually, it will outsell most titles just like GW1 did over the course of several years. I would be surprised if it outsells Rifts total sales for 2011/2012 simply because Rift goes on sale all the time for as little as 5 bucks and it has most of 2011 ahead of GW2. D3 is its own beast and its just out of control. TSW will grab a mil by the end of 2012.

Originally posted by Thralia

nothing this year will come even close to D3  Sales.

i cant name1 person i know who didnt buy D3.

i can only name 1 person who did preorder  GW2 and kept it. (me and 2 other cancelled)

i bought D3 and im super happy with it currently being DH 53 in hell and i think GW2 will sell good but the chatastrophic beta weekend did nothing good for GW2 sales.

d3 may not be a MASSIVE mrpg but its a mrpg D3 is not 

 

 

You are a little confused. D3 had a terrible release! GW2s BWE was awesome and did nothing negative for sales.