Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Sylvarii

No doubt GW2 looks very good indeed but i have to say that LOTRO just pips it when it comes to environmental graphics IMO.

I'm playing LOTRO since beta, I was co-running a fan site for the game too, so I'm definitely not a "hater" - but I have yet to see anything as impressive and massive as the GW2 cities in any game, including LOTRO.

Also, LOTRO still uses the same "elf ruin" model/textures for new content than it was using at release in 2007. I just can't see those ruins anymore, they have been so overused it's not even funny.

LOTRO has some big texture issues when it comes to hillsides/mountainsides, the rock textures are ugly and have a repetitive pattern that can ruin an otherwise nice landscape. I have yet to notice anything like than in GW2, and I explored a lot during the beta week end.

Last but not least, LOTRO claims "DX11 graphics", but barely uses the DX11 features, it's mostly a marketing tool. The DX9 pixels shaders of GW2 are so much better than any pixel shader in LOTRO it's also not even funny... I can't see a waterfall in LOTRO anymore since I've played GW2 beta.

I didn't mention cities and i didn't mention characters in lotro for obvious reasons.I spoke about enviromental looks of the game,imo lotro beats pips GW2 in most places.

Also,i'm an avid GW2 fan so don't mistake my opinion as a hate campaign against GW2,i've been in playing it alot and even before beta i played it at GamesCom two years running,i love the game.

As i said before,none come close to AA.

Originally posted by Pivotelite

I'd have to say almost everything about GW2 is really well done and polished except one thing and it's a big one.

 

Animations of both characters and effects are probably some of the worst i've seen. I really wish they would have spent more time fine tuning animations as I really appreciate good animations amongst many other things.

 

:(

 

Edit: What's with all the praise over GW2 foot placement? Maybe while they are stationary, while moving it's horrible, especially when climbing, it's almost as if you're levitating up and on flat ground it's like ice skating.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, how one view animations is a subjective thing after all.

However, i can't say i agree with your opinion on the matter and when you make remarks such as the effects/animations being the worst you've probably ever seen, i can't help but make the assumption that either your experience with games are very limited or that you purposefully take on an extreme attitude in order to drive home a point, neither work in your favor Pivo.

GW2 is not perfect and it would be absurd to postulate so. A lot of improvements/features are still needed in GW2 (in my opinion) and amongst them one may find that particle-effects and some animations could use some adjusting, but the worst ever? Come on.

Originally posted by Pivotelite

This has nothing to do with TERA, and no I am a forum dweller by heart and spend a lot of time on many forums.

 

If it is because of how he recorded the video, why do I see it in every video?

Because every video you watch is captured poorly and with low framerates? You will see the same problem on low FPS video captures of any game, MMORPG or other, including your beloved Tera.

And possibly also because you only see what you want to see? Go check out the class videos on the official GW2 site for instance.

But come on, look your post history... your agenda here is obvious... ;-)

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Pivotelite

 

I'll be more specific with a non-bug/exploit video, i'll just go to the first one in related and point things out.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGaq-IeVGao&feature=related#t=305s

 

Right when you begin watching he attacks the dragon banner, there's a serious lack of frames on all these attacks, making them look spastic and twitchy to me, maybe powerful to you, but it's a lack of quality presenting the power, that's not a good way of doing it.

 

When he attacks off the hill he goes flying lands on the ground, does not absorb it at all, floats a full 180 and runs back towards the guy and begins more of that twitchy combat.

 

Then when he gets knocked down, there's almost no frames again and it's not powerful to me, I just see lazyness.

 

Then when he runs backwards up the hill...well, yeah that should even be obvious to you, no weight behind it at all.

 

Then he goes back to the spear thrower and attacks it with no one in view making the poor animations much more apparent, if you don't see the twitchy, almost demented animations here, I don't know what to say.

You said it in your description of the video: "no frames". He just has low fps. You can even see that he has graphics settings on low.

Out of interest, have you actually played the game? Or is this observation based solely on recorded footage?

So if it's just the video then I'll use totalhalibuts video as an example then, he records in quite high quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4UWZ2XN9rs#t=70s

He floats over towards the mob and he gets knocked down and it looks the exact same as the "lower quality" video I pointed it out in and then the mob and his character continue to exchange choppy, poorly animated attacks in my opinion.

And yes I have played for a short period and spectated at a friends house, I like the games environments and dynamics of it, but I am pointing out that I feel the animations are lacking. 

So who's the one turning a blind eye and seeing only what they want to see? Certainly not me.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Sylvarii

No doubt GW2 looks very good indeed but i have to say that LOTRO just pips it when it comes to environmental graphics IMO.

I'm playing LOTRO since beta, I was co-running a fan site for the game too, so I'm definitely not a "hater" - but I have yet to see anything as impressive and massive as the GW2 cities in any game, including LOTRO.

Also, LOTRO still uses the same "elf ruin" model/textures for new content than it was using at release in 2007. I just can't see those ruins anymore, they have been so overused it's not even funny.

LOTRO has some big texture issues when it comes to hillsides/mountainsides, the rock textures are ugly and have a repetitive pattern that can ruin an otherwise nice landscape. I have yet to notice anything like than in GW2, and I explored a lot during the beta week end.

Last but not least, LOTRO claims "DX11 graphics", but barely uses the DX11 features, it's mostly a marketing tool. The DX9 pixels shaders of GW2 are so much better than any pixel shader in LOTRO it's also not even funny... I can't see a waterfall in LOTRO anymore since I've played GW2 beta.

I didn't mention cities and i didn't mention characters in lotro for obvious reasons.I spoke about enviromental looks of the game,imo lotro beats pips GW2 in most places.

Also,i'm an avid GW2 fan so don't mistake my opinion as a hate campaign against GW2,i've been in playing it alot and even before beta i played it at GamesCom two years running,i love the game.

As i said before,none come close to AA.

I didn't mistake your opinion as a hate campain at all (unlike our Tera friend here...), but as a player of both LOTRO and GW2, I just disagree with you. Granted, the Shire looks awesome... but so do areas in GW2. But LOTRO aged a lot, and the addition of sparse DX11 features didn't change that. The ugly repetitive hillside textures are still there. The ugly waterfalls too. The spiky rocks too. The repetitive elf ruins you see everywhere in the game too.

Turbine are still able to do marvels with their aging engine though - the last area added, Great River, is really awesome, possibly the best area added since Forochel. LOTRO remains a great looking game, but GW2 avoided most of the problems LOTRO has though.

Originally posted by Pivotelite 

And yes I have played for a short period and spectated at a friends house, I like the games environments and dynamics of it, but I am pointing out that I feel the animations are lacking. 

There we go!

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Pivotelite 

And yes I have played for a short period and spectated at a friends house, I like the games environments and dynamics of it, but I am pointing out that I feel the animations are lacking. 

There we go!

There what goes? How does seeing the game first hand not allow me to judge the animations at all?

Also I like how in my other post you quoted everything but the part explaining why your point is incorrect. 

"Also why do I see the floaty super smooth animations when he runs around and then see the demented lack of frames when he swings his sword? Does the video capture software dramatically fluctuate between how many fps it records in only when he attacks things?"

You also fail to respond when I toss aside your theory of bad quality videos by posting a 720p video by totalhalibut.

Edit: I'll point out I may have been in the spur of the moment stating they are some of the worst out of the games i've played because I just finished watching GW2 videos with them fresh in my mind. But something about GW2s animations really throws me off.

Originally posted by Pivotelite 

You also fail to respond when I toss aside your theory of bad quality videos by posting a 720p video by totalhalibut.

Your video could be in 1080p, this has nothing to do with the framerate.

And yes, a poor framerate affects fast combat movement more than slower movement when you run around - I think anyone playing video games knows that.

I have nothing against negative opinions, but there's a difference between a negative opinion and spreading false information to bash a game, even more when it's a game you don't even play.

Originally posted by Distopia

(red) I was just under the impression there would be a lot more activity than there is. Those shots looked very standard to me in that regard, one or two patrolling the rest standing around not doing much of anything. It's really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, it was a little more active than some, kinda on par with AOC IMO in this department.

(green)As for the human skin thing, it's most certainly a preferential thing, I play human/oid in most games so it's something I take notice of, the original was pretty bad in this department too. They take an Asian looking approach for humans IMO. Western tends to be a bit more grimy looking, deep lines in the face etc.. Has a more medieval fantasy vibe for me so I prefer it, people look rough as they should. Their approach is too clean. If you catch my drift.

Compared to the scenery with its blend of rusty steampunk and medieval fantasy as well as other racial details they (humans)stick out quite a bit too much. The Norn female above posted by Fiontar was a little better looking than what I saw in the videos though. All IMO of course..

 

Hmmm.  Try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes for a better example of what NPCs can be like.  To be honest, I haven't played Age of Conan, but I will say that GW2 beats LotRO and RIFT and WoW and SWTOR pretty much hands down for robustness of NPCs.  I mean, it's no Skyrim, but you don't have to be a fraction as good as Skyrim to beat any of those by an order of magnitude, haha.

Also, I wouldn't consider that video to 'showcase' how NPCs are.  Like I said, they're a mix of various types.  Some are more interesting and lively than others. :D  I'm honestly not sure how many of them move around, I just noticed that some do.  (As in, they'll be in a spot, then later they won't be there when you come back)

Also, GW2 isn't actually medieval fantasy, it's rennaisance level, a bit past really.  It's 250 years after their medieval period.

... and have you SEEN the human cities?  Charr lead in mechanical technology, asura lead in magitech, sylvari lead in freshness (Important in a vegetable, I guess), norn lead in important brewing techniques.  Humans?  Humans lead the forefront of frilly shirt technology.  Considering what they have with alchemy and all that, I always just assumed that humans also lead with skin care technology, having large portions of their society concentrate on exfoliants and the benefits of foundation and makeup application.

Why do the norn women look like that?  They're spoiled from coming to the south and coming in contact with the human women. :(

Also, I'm fairly sure there's extremely well paid mesmers who specialize in prettiness illusions for people's faces.  Even if none of this is true, it's true in my head, and that's where it counts.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Pivotelite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qirVx1--ns  - What I see in this...clunky upper body movements, sliding feet, and floaty physics.

I don't see any of that in that video... it's also funny that you selected a video showing and exploit/glitch to support your claim.

I personally disagree with you and agree with Pivotelite - while the game world is by and large quite beautiful, those animations are absolutely awful.

Originally posted by davestr1zl

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Pivotelite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qirVx1--ns  - What I see in this...clunky upper body movements, sliding feet, and floaty physics.

I don't see any of that in that video... it's also funny that you selected a video showing and exploit/glitch to support your claim.

I personally disagree with you and agree with Pivotelite - while the game world is by and large quite beautiful, those animations are absolutely awful.

Your post history gives you away - just like your friend you agree with. If GW2 is not for you, you don't need to make up imaginary flaws like bad animations based on technical issues that have nothing to do with the animations (low FPS in recorded videos), you can just say "GW2 is not for me" and leave this place with your head up looking forward for whatever game you will enjoy more ;-)

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by davestr1zl

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Pivotelite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qirVx1--ns  - What I see in this...clunky upper body movements, sliding feet, and floaty physics.

I don't see any of that in that video... it's also funny that you selected a video showing and exploit/glitch to support your claim.

I personally disagree with you and agree with Pivotelite - while the game world is by and large quite beautiful, those animations are absolutely awful.

Your post history gives you away - just like your friend you agree with. If GW2 is not for you, you don't need to make up imaginary flaws like bad animations based on technical issues that have nothing to do with the animations (low FPS in recorded videos), you can just say "GW2 is not for me" and leave this place with your head up looking forward for whatever game you will enjoy more ;-)

I'm not sure what can 'give me away' - that I was interested in SWTOR? What does that have to do with anything? (i'm unsure what ive posted previously and no idea how to check, but if i had to guess id say thats what your comment relates to).

For the record: GW2 is for me, I've already pre-ordered it, enjoyed my time in the beta, and am quite certain I will enjoy it as a game long-term.

That being said the animations in the game are, in my opinion, absolutely awful. It is not an imaginary flaw, just a simple fact (for me). If you find the animations to be good then thats great for you, I simply disagree with you completely thats all.

It's quite surprising then that almost all your posts about GW2 are negative, except maybe this last one where you say the world is nice. Usually, when someone has so many negative points against a game, he doesn't buy it.

But whatever... *shrug*

Much like LotRO, I think GW2 has fantastic environments and landscapes but weak characters. Besides the obvious anime influences, characters don't seem to have the same level of detail and customization as Tyria itself. However, this will likely change as I level and experience more of the game (I was only able to reach level 7 during the Stress Test and could not play any substantial amount during the first BWE), as most MMOs start off rather bland in terms of character diversity and "flavor."

Note that when I say "character", I'm including NPCs in this case. "Inhabitants" of Tyria might be a better term.

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

Originally posted by Comnitus

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

This is my problem. When I watch WvWvW videos it looks like people throwing buckets of paint at each other. Colors and explsions everywhere until someone falls over. It doesn't give the impression of strategic combat rather blob v blob v blob.

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

This is my problem. When I watch WvWvW videos it looks like people throwing buckets of paint at each other. Colors and explsions everywhere until someone falls over. It doesn't give the impression of strategic combat rather blob v blob v blob.

Regretfully, I didn't try WvWvW yet, but this is standard MMO combat. Strategic combat can be found in EVE. The difference is in the small details, and the fact that ArenaNet tried to make their combat as "visceral and exciting" as possibly by making it flashy. Just a design decision.

From what I've heard of WvWvW, it's tremendously fun, even if it's blob vs. blob. Hopefully that's because of the dodge mechanic (however limited it may be) and the vast customization available to each class.

Originally posted by davestr1zl

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by davestr1zl

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Pivotelite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qirVx1--ns  - What I see in this...clunky upper body movements, sliding feet, and floaty physics.

I don't see any of that in that video... it's also funny that you selected a video showing and exploit/glitch to support your claim.

I personally disagree with you and agree with Pivotelite - while the game world is by and large quite beautiful, those animations are absolutely awful.

Your post history gives you away - just like your friend you agree with. If GW2 is not for you, you don't need to make up imaginary flaws like bad animations based on technical issues that have nothing to do with the animations (low FPS in recorded videos), you can just say "GW2 is not for me" and leave this place with your head up looking forward for whatever game you will enjoy more ;-)

I'm not sure what can 'give me away' - that I was interested in SWTOR? What does that have to do with anything? (i'm unsure what ive posted previously and no idea how to check, but if i had to guess id say thats what your comment relates to).

For the record: GW2 is for me, I've already pre-ordered it, enjoyed my time in the beta, and am quite certain I will enjoy it as a game long-term.

That being said the animations in the game are, in my opinion, absolutely awful. It is not an imaginary flaw, just a simple fact (for me). If you find the animations to be good then thats great for you, I simply disagree with you completely thats all.

You of course have your own opinion but how can you say that the animations are awful? On a scale of 1 to 10 awful would be about a 2 and if that is what you are saying then the game play would be horrid. You have stated you are getting the game, why would you buy a horrid/awful game?

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

This is my problem. When I watch WvWvW videos it looks like people throwing buckets of paint at each other. Colors and explsions everywhere until someone falls over. It doesn't give the impression of strategic combat rather blob v blob v blob.

Regretfully, I didn't try WvWvW yet, but this is standard MMO combat. Strategic combat can be found in EVE. The difference is in the small details, and the fact that ArenaNet tried to make their combat as "visceral and exciting" as possibly by making it flashy. Just a design decision.

From what I've heard of WvWvW, it's tremendously fun, even if it's blob vs. blob. Hopefully that's because of the dodge mechanic (however limited it may be) and the vast customization available to each class.

I don't want to derail, but how many abilities are there? I understand each class has certain weapons it can use in any combination of 2, and depending on main hand and off hand 1 or 2 abilities may change.  What I don't know is how many abilities does each weapon have, 6? 7?

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

This is my problem. When I watch WvWvW videos it looks like people throwing buckets of paint at each other. Colors and explsions everywhere until someone falls over. It doesn't give the impression of strategic combat rather blob v blob v blob.

Regretfully, I didn't try WvWvW yet, but this is standard MMO combat. Strategic combat can be found in EVE. The difference is in the small details, and the fact that ArenaNet tried to make their combat as "visceral and exciting" as possibly by making it flashy. Just a design decision.

From what I've heard of WvWvW, it's tremendously fun, even if it's blob vs. blob. Hopefully that's because of the dodge mechanic (however limited it may be) and the vast customization available to each class.

I don't want to derail, but how many abilities are there? I understand each class has certain weapons it can use in any combination of 2, and depending on main hand and off hand 1 or 2 abilities may change.  What I don't know is how many abilities does each weapon have 6? 7?

You can play with this tool...it gives you a good idea! Don't forget keys 1-5 weapon skills and 6-0 utilty skills.

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

This is my problem. When I watch WvWvW videos it looks like people throwing buckets of paint at each other. Colors and explsions everywhere until someone falls over. It doesn't give the impression of strategic combat rather blob v blob v blob.

Regretfully, I didn't try WvWvW yet, but this is standard MMO combat. Strategic combat can be found in EVE. The difference is in the small details, and the fact that ArenaNet tried to make their combat as "visceral and exciting" as possibly by making it flashy. Just a design decision.

From what I've heard of WvWvW, it's tremendously fun, even if it's blob vs. blob. Hopefully that's because of the dodge mechanic (however limited it may be) and the vast customization available to each class.

I don't want to derail, but how many abilities are there? I understand each class has certain weapons it can use in any combination of 2, and depending on main hand and off hand 1 or 2 abilities may change.  What I don't know is how many abilities does each weapon have 6? 7?

You can play with this tool...it gives you a good idea! Don't forget keys 1-5 weapon skills and 6-0 utilty skills.

thanks will look.

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by powerplay

Originally posted by Comnitus

Edit: I also think most of the animations are rather bad, more so in standing/walking/running than in combat, which is so flashy and explosive that the last thing you focus on are the animations. This statement does not apply to Charr, who are awesome in almost every way. But I simply can't play a male Norn, for example, because of 1) Their disproportionate bodies and 2) Their run animation.

This is my problem. When I watch WvWvW videos it looks like people throwing buckets of paint at each other. Colors and explsions everywhere until someone falls over. It doesn't give the impression of strategic combat rather blob v blob v blob.

Regretfully, I didn't try WvWvW yet, but this is standard MMO combat. Strategic combat can be found in EVE. The difference is in the small details, and the fact that ArenaNet tried to make their combat as "visceral and exciting" as possibly by making it flashy. Just a design decision.

From what I've heard of WvWvW, it's tremendously fun, even if it's blob vs. blob. Hopefully that's because of the dodge mechanic (however limited it may be) and the vast customization available to each class.

Honestly you aren't gonna see any good WvW gameplay until a couple weeks into release.

1) Most people don't know how to play the classes well.  At all.  Spamming AoE's is the easy way, but its not even close to the most effective.   Server with smart teams won't even need to use seige engines to wipe gate campers.  A quick melee raid from a flank and teleport back behind the wall will devastate these people.  A support mesmer can easily bring them back; portal on wall-> jump down->stealth-> run up to melee-> make portal-> everyone safe.  5 seconds for an easy extraction.  And that mesmer won't be in any danger at all.  A 5 man melee sally squad like that could tear up ranged aoers really fast and easy and not spend any supply at all.  And they could do it over and over with two mesmers.  They probably wouldn't even need any guardian but with a guardian or two they would give them incredible hell.  The gameplay you are seeing now is going to get so incredibly devastated a month after release it will actually be rather funny.

2) Most WvW barely involved siege engines.  These are key.  You are seeing people who have no idea what they are doing bashing on gates.  Bashing on gates is SUPPOSED to be boring and take a long time.  You want to get into a keep use siege engines.

3) Most people have no idea what to do about supply or what to do with it.

4) getting enough supply to get a full assault force of seige engines takes time.  A WvW cycle that is one week in has alot more potential for supply/seig engine than 1 day.  An assault on a map can completely stall if you run out of supply and the other team invested all their supply and seige engine into one strong point.