Originally posted by Torvaldr

Also I think it will become apparent, as people actually get to play longer, that the most sought after fluff and appearance stuff is locked squarely behind group only content.  ANet are masters of the fluff grind (take the Drunkard title path in GW1 for an example).  They've abandoned gear progression in their games because they focus on pvp and it's much easier to balance pvp (and even pve) without gear progression.  Outside of this they still have the long standing historic mega-grinds and group-only rewards that all mmos have.  They just aren't about gear power.

An excellent summation,  but I fail to see the problem...

...mainly b/c "Casuals and Soloers" by definition, don't give a shit HOW THEY LOOK to other players online.  And if there's a Craftable skin they want really badly, they'll eventually be able to just buy it off the TradingPost by soloing a bit longer.  (or make it themselves)

Originally posted by Xzen
I found it almost impossible to solo. Every time I tried to do a quest there were a bunch of people there helping me and there was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't play solo if I wanted to.

you get solo play through personal story, which is like all of TOR. what more could people want? they can have their personal RPG experience, but MMO's are really meant to be played in a community. the ISSUES in other games were: trinity (LF healer/tank lulz), gear requirements (grind moar to play with us), and community-destroying LFG tools. GW2 doesnt have such issues, so even the soloers should be out there having fun. no reason not to, ANet made it so easy to group.

Originally posted by tordurbar
Huh? I am mainly a solo player and a casual and I disagree with the OP. Yes you can solo but if you want the skill points in congested areas you MUST have more than one player to do it.  I did manage to solo kill most of the time but never was able to survive (as a necromancer) multiple mobs in a restricted area (could not even complete my level 10 quest as a level 14). I do think this is a great game and I will play it upon release but I do not think that it is casual or solo FRIENDLY.

you just need to learn more about GW2 combat and Necro style.

why people confuse casual / friendly with easy dificult? for me casual game is a game where i can play 30minutes or 1h day and have lot of fun, this GW2 offer and offer on PvE not only on PvP. dont know any MMORPG better than GW2 in term os casual.

friendly? for  solo friendly i expect a game where is easy to learn combat, crafting , etc. sure for someone that always game with WoW combat style, GW2 combat will take sometime to learn because is much more complicated than WoW clones.  crafting need somekind of tutorial, for me was very confused.  

everyone help evryone how much FRIENDLY can be the game? xDD

 from what i see on beta in terms of casual is the perfect MMORPG (dont exist better for now) in terms os friendly isnt the best but isnt bad either. 

agree. for solo players GW2 will be so amazing. solo players that can play without a party but have battles with 20/30 people helping and have lot of fun?? tell me another game where you can do this.

(for solo i mean have no party, i dont expect someone want play a MMORPG and play alone on a map....for that have witcher/skyrim and so on)

Originally posted by iller

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Also I think it will become apparent, as people actually get to play longer, that the most sought after fluff and appearance stuff is locked squarely behind group only content.  ANet are masters of the fluff grind (take the Drunkard title path in GW1 for an example).  They've abandoned gear progression in their games because they focus on pvp and it's much easier to balance pvp (and even pve) without gear progression.  Outside of this they still have the long standing historic mega-grinds and group-only rewards that all mmos have.  They just aren't about gear power.

An excellent summation,  but I fail to see the problem...

 

...mainly b/c "Casuals and Soloers" by definition, don't give a shit HOW THEY LOOK to other players online.  And if there's a Craftable skin they want really badly, they'll eventually be able to just buy it off the TradingPost by soloing a bit longer.  (or make it themselves)

I think you should only speak for yourself.  You may not care how you look to other players online, but that's as far as you should go.  There is probably some group of people that feel that way, but let's not over generalize.

Also where does this idea come from that it's okay for soloers to buy stuff off the auction house or broker to get what everyone else gets to game for?  I really hate that.  That very philosophy is a major factor behind why we have cash shops and store exclusives.  It just sucks.

Originally posted by Meleagar

Originally posted by RebelScum99

More hyperbole.  You left out the part about GW2 being able to cure cancer and bring about world peace.  

 

I covered that in another thread :)

and u are complete right about it !

Originally posted by lokiboard

Wow, you could sell a bucket of dookey to a sanitation worker...........Well maybe not....This game has a ways to go....Disconnections....Won't even run crossfire or in maxed mode....Getting crafting drops but not being able to craft until level 10.....How very TOR of them....Lame cut scenes that voiceovers were missing on half the conversation....Always getting the overflow message and never a message that you qued in....Did I always play in the overflow?  This is by no means near complete......At least TOR was way more polished.....The disclaimer in the corner saying Work In Progress was no lie....Having an event continually que up when you already have completed it and then having it tell you you've been rewarded....Again...and...Again....and Again.....Tons of things wrong with this game....Another run arround and kill so many X so many times to fill your bar and get your little cyber medal....Wohoo My Hero...One last thing....Having some stupid guild spam me everytime I logged in made me feel like I was being stalked.....BBB guild go @#$ yourselves...Seriously, I want an IGNORE function for entire guilds.....

That hurt my brain to read. When you complete a sentence in English, you only need ONE period. If you are trying to use an ellipsis (. . .), and that only has 3 periods, and you are using them incorrectly. If you are trying to list things, designate your list with a colon(:), then put each of your 'complaints' on one line. 

1) I don't know what you are talking about with these 'disconnections'. The only problems I had were on Friday and part of Saturday. For the most part, the game ran smoothly for me. The problem is obviously on your end.

2) I ran the game in maxed mode without a problem, so obviously your end.

3) They stated it didn't suppose SLI or Crossfire. 

4) Half the conversations were a hyperbole. SOME of the conversations had voice overs missing, and if you read the known problems with the game, they state the reason for this. 

5) Your point of not being able to craft until 10? Seems like a standard requirement to me. 

6) I always got a message if I was in an overflow when I first tried to log into a zone that was full. If you received no message, then it would seem obvious that you weren't in an overflow server.

7) Nobody ever said it was complete. It's BETA for a reason. 

8) Sounds like the game is working if events are constantly appear and you are receiving rewards for participating. If you are talking about a single event doing that, I don't know what you talking about. I only receive rewards for events I participate in, even after I leave the area. 

9) No game can ever get rid of the kill x, or collect y. EVERY game comes down to that basic concept. It's the implementation that matters.

10) Did you even play the game?

On topic, I think the OP did a good job at explaining the general idea behind GW2. Yeah the OP may have made it sound like heaven, but to the OP was describing how much s/he liked it. Everyone has different tastes remember? Just because you didn't think it was greatest thing since sliced bread doesn't mean the OP doesn't think that. I personally really enjoyed the game. It obviously has some work to do before release (it's beta after all), but it was a pretty solid game. 

I enjoy being able to team up with people without actually teaming up with them. 

Originally posted by BadSpock

I sometimes felt bad helping other players get their kills and tagging mobs etc. but than I realized I could do NOTHING in PvE that would hurt another player in any way, and I instantly began to completely LOVE the changes Anet made with GW2.

Randomly running into a large group escorting  a couple of NPC's with wave after wave of Centaur.

Didn't have to ask to be invited, wasn't "hurting" anyone and was able to significantly impact and help the group through crowd control, damage, and healing.

Beautiful.

Players actually talked, we rezzed each other and people said "thanks" and even naturally found a rythem in skill/profession combos to help smooth things along (like Ele dropping a fire wall and ranged sticking behind it etc.)

Best part of the game, hands down.

 

If you mean "hurt" as in "wasting their time", you can still do that to the true solo-players: players who want to play without the positive/negative interference of other people. 

For a such true solo-player, they want the difficulty of killing a certain mob to be exactly like it is in a solo-situation, they do not want another player to come in and change the difficulty, which is what you are doing the second you decide to "help them".

The true "solo players" are likely a minority, but they still exist.

Edit:

What GW2 does is to make the game more accessible for players who are not true solo players, but still chose to play mostly solo in other games due to dislike of certain cumbersome grouping mechanisms. Players such as the topic starter. 

---

Originally posted by lokiboard
Wow, you could sell a bucket of dookey to a sanitation worker...........Well maybe not....This game has a ways to go....Disconnections....Won't even run crossfire or in maxed mode....Getting crafting drops but not being able to craft until level 10.....How very TOR of them....Lame cut scenes that voiceovers were missing on half the conversation....Always getting the overflow message and never a message that you qued in....Did I always play in the overflow?  This is by no means near complete......At least TOR was way more polished.....The disclaimer in the corner saying Work In Progress was no lie....Having an event continually que up when you already have completed it and then having it tell you you've been rewarded....Again...and...Again....and Again.....Tons of things wrong with this game....Another run arround and kill so many X so many times to fill your bar and get your little cyber medal....Wohoo My Hero...One last thing....Having some stupid guild spam me everytime I logged in made me feel like I was being stalked.....BBB guild go @#$ yourselves...Seriously, I want an IGNORE function for entire guilds.....

---

Your eather baiting or played another game?

If you bought the game and seems to have experience that you describe(i had a totally differnt experience with almost none of your problems) here well arenanet thank for your purchase and wish you luck with another mmo:)

Good luck with TOR i gues:)

That title is funny, since everytime I tried to solo an event, I ended up dead.  

Originally posted by Eir_S

That title is funny, since everytime I tried to solo an event, I ended up dead.  

  Not to mention that while I AM waiting for it...there is nothing revolutionary about what they've done :D  It IS however evolutionary!

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by Eir_S

That title is funny, since everytime I tried to solo an event, I ended up dead.  

 

 

  Not to mention that while I AM waiting for it...there is nothing revolutionary about what they've done :D  It IS however evolutionary!

I think that's the point most reasonable fans understand.  GW2's features will be plucked for the development of future games, and that will benefit the industry.  Here's to evolution.

Originally posted by Eir_S

That title is funny, since everytime I tried to solo an event, I ended up dead.  

I took it in reference to the lack of need to cordinate a party through content, which if they're anything like PQ's in this regard, that is fairly accurate.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by Eir_S

That title is funny, since everytime I tried to solo an event, I ended up dead.  

 

 

  Not to mention that while I AM waiting for it...there is nothing revolutionary about what they've done :D  It IS however evolutionary!

I think that's the point most reasonable fans understand.  GW2's features will be plucked for the development of future games, and that will benefit the industry.  Here's to evolution.

However, many features are not necessarely evolutionary (as in better), many are just different from the norm. 

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by Eir_S

That title is funny, since everytime I tried to solo an event, I ended up dead.  

 

 

  Not to mention that while I AM waiting for it...there is nothing revolutionary about what they've done :D  It IS however evolutionary!

I think that's the point most reasonable fans understand.  GW2's features will be plucked for the development of future games, and that will benefit the industry.  Here's to evolution.

However, many features are not necessarely evolutionary (as in better), many are just different from the norm. 

People will see them as better if the game succeeds, thus making other companies (like the thieving Blizzard) more likely to employ those features in future games.  Breaking away from the WoW mold is the whole point, and I'm betting we'll see more games with action combat and dynamic questing (the former in part thanks to Tera as well) down the road.  Dollar signs to them means better games to us, at least in some cases.

Totally agree with Eir. This game isn't a Re-volution, it's an E-volution. It's building upon the old, making some things better, giving others ideas to build off of.

Will totaly disagree about events. Soloed quite a few, skill challenges too. But there were some that were rough (Flame Shaman, Flame Shaman, also Flame Shaman....did I mention I HATE that guy?)

I'm very excited about GW2 after playing the beta. Prior to the beta I was aprehensive but I think the game has delivered on the hype it generated and more. Having played mmos since 2001 I think I have a good feel about games by now and from what I can tell the underlining game design is truly remarkable.

The bones of the game promote a coperative gaming environment. No holy trinity, ninja looting and kill stealing. The DE are breath of freash air the mmo genere needed. No Rift tried to do DE but failed, they were mostly cookie cutter and generic.

Why is there still a debate about this. Both words have very clear definitions, and neither are hard to find w/ a 2sec search in google. To simplify.

Revolution = any movement or catalyst that sparks change from the norm (the status quo).

Basically, this game hasn't been released yet. MMOs take at least half a decade to make, so whether or not this game is revolutionary will not be known for at least another 5-10 years. People are still unsure of how successful it will be long-term, and that will be a large factor of whether or not it's design gets adopted. Already, though, this game has had some of it's features borrowed by newer games (ie the ability to res anyone, in combat, regardless of class). However, in order for this game to be revolutionary, we would have to see if games w/ out a gear treadmill start to become popular or not. That & dynamic content are the 2 most significant changes this game brings to the genre.

Evolution = any process of progress or growth.

It's important to note that evolution doesn't inherently mean 'better', just that any given thing is progressing in a clear direction. Whether or not that direction is a good one is entirely subjective along a person - by - person basis. No matter how you look at it, this game is evolutionary, if for no other reason than it's progressing off of what they started in the original. It's taking not only their former ideas, but also genre norms, and modifying them to be more ifficient.

- Now that that is out of the way, the real debate here should be about whether or not this game is really about casuals & soloers. While it does accomodate both, I have seen a decent amount of jabs directed at this idea that this game is the ultimate carebear game, and thus not for 'real gamers'. Not only do I find such an idea laughable, but I'd also argue that this game isn't even geared specifically for casuals / soloers.

Not only is there a lot of content that challenges you (hence the mountain of threads complaining about PvE difficulty / dying too much, etc.), but there is also a good amount of content that you need to coordinate for. While the game does try and make this easier, by removing barriers to coordination / communication, it doesn't mean that it's not necessary to work together w/ other people. It's just done (much of the time) in a more visual way.

Originally posted by aesperus

Why is there still a debate about this. Both words have very clear definitions, and neither are hard to find w/ a 2sec search in google. To simplify.

Revolution = any movement or catalyst that sparks change from the norm (the status quo).

Basically, this game hasn't been released yet. MMOs take at least half a decade to make, so whether or not this game is revolutionary will not be known for at least another 5-10 years. People are still unsure of how successful it will be long-term, and that will be a large factor of whether or not it's design gets adopted. Already, though, this game has had some of it's features borrowed by newer games (ie the ability to res anyone, in combat, regardless of class). However, in order for this game to be revolutionary, we would have to see if games w/ out a gear treadmill start to become popular or not. That & dynamic content are the 2 most significant changes this game brings to the genre.

Evolution = any process of progress or growth.

It's important to note that evolution doesn't inherently mean 'better', just that any given thing is progressing in a clear direction. Whether or not that direction is a good one is entirely subjective along a person - by - person basis. No matter how you look at it, this game is evolutionary, if for no other reason than it's progressing off of what they started in the original. It's taking not only their former ideas, but also genre norms, and modifying them to be more ifficient.

- Now that that is out of the way, the real debate here should be about whether or not this game is really about casuals & soloers. While it does accomodate both, I have seen a decent amount of jabs directed at this idea that this game is the ultimate carebear game, and thus not for 'real gamers'. Not only do I find such an idea laughable, but I'd also argue that this game isn't even geared specifically for casuals / soloers.

Not only is there a lot of content that challenges you (hence the mountain of threads complaining about PvE difficulty / dying too much, etc.), but there is also a good amount of content that you need to coordinate for. While the game does try and make this easier, by removing barriers to coordination / communication, it doesn't mean that it's not necessary to work together w/ other people. It's just done (much of the time) in a more visual way.

Why is a "clear direction" required to be called evolution? Did the evolution of languages have a clear direction?

Evolution has in many contexts been used in a positive regard, which is why when you are saying that X is the evolution of Y, you are not merely stating something neutral, you are implying something positive in casual talk. Do note the distinction between casual language and specific jargon.

It is okay to say that GW2's dynamic events are an evolution of RIft's version. However, it would not be okay to say that GW2's non-trinity combat is an evolution of the trinity combat. Likewise, it would not be okay to say that GW2's World vs World is an evolution of DAOC's realm vs realm.

The expression "different from the norm" is a far better to use to describe many aspects which makes GW2 interesting. 

I didn't mean to start a semantics discussion but...

What I meant is that, as with MANY games before it, some people expected some sort of miracle with GW2. A game that used 0% of any of the mechanics EVER in any game before it, 100% new and original in every way.

What we actually HAVE is a game with a few "new" ideas that are mostly old ideas we forgot about brought back; as well as some current ideas that have been tweaked to be (hopefully) better than they were before. And I think that's a good thing.

Originally posted by terrant

I didn't mean to start a semantics discussion but...

 

What I meant is that, as with MANY games before it, some people expected some sort of miracle with GW2. A game that used 0% of any of the mechanics EVER in any game before it, 100% new and original in every way.

 

What we actually HAVE is a game with a few "new" ideas that are mostly old ideas we forgot about brought back; as well as some current ideas that have been tweaked to be (hopefully) better than they were before. And I think that's a good thing.

 Agreed. Questing is a spin-off from WAR and RIFT. They are FAR more polished and fun and offers more branching. They are also alot more dynamic than what's been done before.

OT, i agree with the OP. This game is PERFECT for me as a "casual". For example, my son sleeps 1 hour during daytime and i can just log in, have fun and level, PVP or explore. Never have to wait for anyone or anything. If i go AFK in the middle of a event i still get rewarded for the effort i put in.