Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Only thing different is that it doesn't have Tank threat mechanics. Many MMO also have similar mechanics. What's to learn?

That you would even ask "What's to learn" sort of proves that you just are not equiped with the knowledge or experience needed to possess an accurate picture of this game. I hope you will have an opportunity to participate in a BWE and will commit to extensive game play, with an open mind. Even if you were to find the game is not for you, I think you'd still gain an appreciation for what the game offers and the learning curve involved in becoming a good player.

There is a lot of depth to this game, but you need to take a leap down that rabbit hole to appreciate what lies beneath the surface.

 

I played in BWE and had no issues with the mechanics. I jumped right in and started playing. Didn't take years of rocket science to figure out what I needed to do. There was clearly a Melee vs Ranged balance issues when it comes to mechanics. Anet has accounted on this balance issue. Right now you have to exploit the mechanics, but who finds that fun? Come on!

I ask, prove me and Anet wrong.

Right, the developers also said there is a learn to play issue with melee as well, did you read that as well MMOExposed?

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Only thing different is that it doesn't have Tank threat mechanics. Many MMO also have similar mechanics. What's to learn?

That you would even ask "What's to learn" sort of proves that you just are not equiped with the knowledge or experience needed to possess an accurate picture of this game. I hope you will have an opportunity to participate in a BWE and will commit to extensive game play, with an open mind. Even if you were to find the game is not for you, I think you'd still gain an appreciation for what the game offers and the learning curve involved in becoming a good player.

There is a lot of depth to this game, but you need to take a leap down that rabbit hole to appreciate what lies beneath the surface.

 

I played in BWE and had no issues with the mechanics. I jumped right in and started playing. Didn't take years of rocket science to figure out what I needed to do. There was clearly a Melee vs Ranged balance issues when it comes to mechanics. Anet has accounted on this balance issue. Right now you have to exploit the mechanics, but who finds that fun? Come on!

I ask, prove me and Anet wrong.

Well, you actually have already admitted to having problems.

 

For instance you think guardians are underpowered. You actually called your build a "hammer guardian" which I found strange since in GW2, weapon switching is an extremely important part of gameplay.

 

I mean, there is the possibility that you are just bad at it. Many other people are seeing the potential and it appears you are not able to. I don't think anyone trusts your opinion about the depth of gameplay in general because you've made so many comments than make you sound bad at the game.

Originally posted by soldierguy97

Plz check this out guys!!! http://gw2rig.blogspot.com/

I saw it at twitter earlier, crazy :)

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Only thing different is that it doesn't have Tank threat mechanics. Many MMO also have similar mechanics. What's to learn?

That you would even ask "What's to learn" sort of proves that you just are not equiped with the knowledge or experience needed to possess an accurate picture of this game. I hope you will have an opportunity to participate in a BWE and will commit to extensive game play, with an open mind. Even if you were to find the game is not for you, I think you'd still gain an appreciation for what the game offers and the learning curve involved in becoming a good player.

There is a lot of depth to this game, but you need to take a leap down that rabbit hole to appreciate what lies beneath the surface.

 

I played in BWE and had no issues with the mechanics. I jumped right in and started playing. Didn't take years of rocket science to figure out what I needed to do. There was clearly a Melee vs Ranged balance issues when it comes to mechanics. Anet has accounted on this balance issue. Right now you have to exploit the mechanics, but who finds that fun? Come on!

I ask, prove me and Anet wrong.

The only thing ArenaNet said about fixing melee vs ranged is how mobs attack melee much more than range.  Jon Peters was very clear in his post that people need to learn to play melee better.   Quit twisting words to fit your complaints.  You already have Rift which you love so much.  Just play it.  We are ok with it.  We don't expect you to play GW2 if it isn't for you.

Here is his post btw:

 

 

Hey all. I wanted to talk about this a bit since it is a hot topic here and also on the internets. The intention is that both styles are viable. Certainly right now Melee is more difficult than ranged. There are some things we will try to do to address this, but I think the more you play you would find they are closer than you think.

First what’s already there:
1) Melee does more damage. Melee damage is simply higher than ranged damage across the board.
2) Melee has more control. With a few intentional exception Melee has a lot more control than ranged.

What Melee needs:
1) defensive tools on more weapons, particularly on lower armor professions.
2) ai needs to favor Melee a bit less than it currently does.

What else: 
Finally because of the more action based nature of combat Melee needs to be taught better. Effective Melee requires skills that translate over from FPS games which are notoriously harder on casual players. You have to wasd to move, constantly aim with your mouse camera, and hit skills on 1-5.

Some tips:
If you have learned any good Melee tips that you think we should pass on to newer players feel free to post them here. I’ll start with a few tips of my own.

- If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks.

- Melee has a lot of hard hitting skills and good setup. Utility skills Can really help set up big Melee attacks. Bulls charge on warrior, scorpion wire on thief, judges intervention on guardian.

- know when to run. No matter what you are not a tank. You have to move in and out avoiding damage. If you have to soak damage try and bring boons like Protection and Regeneration or conditions like Blindness and the very undervalued Weakness.

Thanks for reading this all. Rest assured we will keep working on this and just keep in mind the subtle differences in GW2 combat that take a while to sink in.

Jon

Originally posted by Theonenoni

I found that most BWE testers were very confused with what to do outside town and survive in combat.

Aside from exploration you have two types of quests you will come across.

Renowned hearts:  These are those little hearts on your map screen. These are the closest thing to a traditional quest aside from the personal story line quests.   By doing these renowned quests you unlock the Karma vendor for that area. It is very advantageous to do these since Karma vendors can give you really good items/gear for your level.   

Dynamic Events: These are quests that happen in the world whether you are in the vicinity or not.  Some dynamic events have consequences and other don't.  For example, there is a dynamic event chain that goes on in the charr lands that leads you to a secret puzzle. You cannot get to this puzzle unless the portal to it is unlocked.  To unlock this portal one must capture the area from the Flame Legion. You can solo this or do this with friends or random people.  NPCs are also around to help. Even when trying to solve the puzzle the Flame Legion will try to take the area back.  So there you have it.

 

Combat:  This is not a game where you sit there and trade blows with your foe. IMO the object to winning and being successful in GW2 is to kill a mob without taking any damage at all even while using melee.  When soloing an enemy 1v1 one should never have to use the healing skill.  Cripple or Chilled is very valuable, and if damage cannot be avoided weakness or blind is your friend.  To get the most DPS out of your character you should try to find ways to put as many condtions on the enemy or try to put as many boons on yourself as you can.  Burning and poison is super effective.  If you are downed almost every conflict you may want to fight lower level mobs. and if you cannot improve in combat after a couple games then GW2 may not be the game for you. 

Roles:  Do not forget that every profession can fulfill the 3 roles that Anet has offered in this game. Support/ DPS/ Control. Some professions may seems to do certain roles better than others but that is not the case. It really depends on your traits and what you allocated your points into. 

 

This game does not hold your hand. This game is a challenge that is much needed in the MMO genre.  I hear many players say this game should have this and that  but that is just from laziness.  Games used to be a brain exercise and now you can eat pizza in one hand and just click one button to win.  GW2 has taken a big step in a direction that may be enjoyable to some and frustrating for others. It really depends on whether you the player can adapt. We all adapted to Super Mario or pong, GW2 is just as easy to adapt. All you have to do is think.

Im with u OP im really tired of mmos that give me no challenge and thanks god and the developers GW2 looks different from others mmo out there ! xD

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Only thing different is that it doesn't have Tank threat mechanics. Many MMO also have similar mechanics. What's to learn?

That you would even ask "What's to learn" sort of proves that you just are not equiped with the knowledge or experience needed to possess an accurate picture of this game. I hope you will have an opportunity to participate in a BWE and will commit to extensive game play, with an open mind. Even if you were to find the game is not for you, I think you'd still gain an appreciation for what the game offers and the learning curve involved in becoming a good player.

There is a lot of depth to this game, but you need to take a leap down that rabbit hole to appreciate what lies beneath the surface.

 

I played in BWE and had no issues with the mechanics. I jumped right in and started playing. Didn't take years of rocket science to figure out what I needed to do. There was clearly a Melee vs Ranged balance issues when it comes to mechanics. Anet has accounted on this balance issue. Right now you have to exploit the mechanics, but who finds that fun? Come on!

I ask, prove me and Anet wrong.

How can I prove whether or not you are willing and able to learn to play the game with a greater grasp of the mechanics and better game play? I think you are capable of learning to play more skillfully and even coming to appreciate the learning curve does indeed exist, but in the end it comes down to your abilities and willingness to learn. (Usually an unwillingness to even admit there is something for you to learn is a pretty strong impediment to actual learning).

You have to utilize the game machanics to achieve better levels of efficiency, not exploit them, as if using the dynamic combat mechanics is somehow cheating. I realize many other games have considered anything other than standing still, spamming attacks to be an exploit. GW2 is not one of those games. (I actually got a warning in SWG once for kiting a mob around a tree. In GW2, that would be fair play and something your character would do, in order to survive and be victorious).

All I was trying to do with this post is to help people adapt to the game instead of complaining about not being any good at it. 

Melee Vs Range? melee wins. 

To win with melee against range , all you have to do is cripple the ranged foe or have a pull skill. It really is best to have one ranged weapon set and one melee weapon set to swap from. 

 

Example: Thief with the skill Scorpion Wire and caltrops with double dagger.   By using the scorpion wire to pull the foe to you, you will easily close the gap. The dagger off-hand skill #4 is also a ranged cripple attack.  

Melee damage does much more damage than ranged damage.

Also, please don't forget that every profession has a ranged attack or ranged weapon to use.  One may think this makes no sense and every profession plays the same but they really dont play the same.  A ranger's longbow acts very differently to a warriors longbow. 

Dodge duck dip dive and dodge. 

Originally posted by Theonenoni

All I was trying to do with this post is to help people adapt to the game instead of complaining about not being any good at it. 

Melee Vs Range? melee wins. 

To win with melee against range , all you have to do is cripple the ranged foe or have a pull skill. It really is best to have one ranged weapon set and one melee weapon set to swap from. 

 

Example: Thief with the skill Scorpion Wire and caltrops with double dagger.   By using the scorpion wire to pull the foe to you, you will easily close the gap. The dagger off-hand skill #4 is also a ranged cripple attack.  

Melee damage does much more damage than ranged damage.

Also, please don't forget that every profession has a ranged attack or ranged weapon to use.  One may think this makes no sense and every profession plays the same but they really dont play the same.  A ranger's longbow acts very differently to a warriors longbow. 

Dodge duck dip dive and dodge. 

 

 

QFT. Melee can be amazingly powerful if played correctly. I only have two minor issues with melee gameplay thoguh

1) Abilities which lock you in place while they aminate (Mesmer 1h sword's #2 power for instance). Although at least in that example I'm basically invulnerable while it's going off. Just that if an enemy times it right they can scoot out of the way, then lay a whallop off me. Thankfully again the animation can be broken out of thus cancelling the attack, but it's just annoying.

2) Aiming is much less forgiving for melee. Many ranged abilities lock on target as long as you're aiming the right direciton; most melee abilities do not/. On the positive side though, almost every melee abilitiy is AOE.

Originally posted by Theonenoni

I found that most BWE testers were very confused with what to do outside town and survive in combat.

Aside from exploration you have two types of quests you will come across.

Renowned hearts:  These are those little hearts on your map screen. These are the closest thing to a traditional quest aside from the personal story line quests.   By doing these renowned quests you unlock the Karma vendor for that area. It is very advantageous to do these since Karma vendors can give you really good items/gear for your level.   

Dynamic Events: These are quests that happen in the world whether you are in the vicinity or not.  Some dynamic events have consequences and other don't.  For example, there is a dynamic event chain that goes on in the charr lands that leads you to a secret puzzle. You cannot get to this puzzle unless the portal to it is unlocked.  To unlock this portal one must capture the area from the Flame Legion. You can solo this or do this with friends or random people.  NPCs are also around to help. Even when trying to solve the puzzle the Flame Legion will try to take the area back.  So there you have it.

 

Combat:  This is not a game where you sit there and trade blows with your foe. IMO the object to winning and being successful in GW2 is to kill a mob without taking any damage at all even while using melee.  When soloing an enemy 1v1 one should never have to use the healing skill.  Cripple or Chilled is very valuable, and if damage cannot be avoided weakness or blind is your friend.  To get the most DPS out of your character you should try to find ways to put as many condtions on the enemy or try to put as many boons on yourself as you can.  Burning and poison is super effective.  If you are downed almost every conflict you may want to fight lower level mobs. and if you cannot improve in combat after a couple games then GW2 may not be the game for you. 

Roles:  Do not forget that every profession can fulfill the 3 roles that Anet has offered in this game. Support/ DPS/ Control. Some professions may seems to do certain roles better than others but that is not the case. It really depends on your traits and what you allocated your points into. 

 

This game does not hold your hand. This game is a challenge that is much needed in the MMO genre.  I hear many players say this game should have this and that  but that is just from laziness.  Games used to be a brain exercise and now you can eat pizza in one hand and just click one button to win.  GW2 has taken a big step in a direction that may be enjoyable to some and frustrating for others. It really depends on whether you the player can adapt. We all adapted to Super Mario or pong, GW2 is just as easy to adapt. All you have to do is think.

Dont know why people keep talking about gw2 as the most challenging MMO in the market, and how hard is to play it. Is up to your MMO experience i guess, but cmon gw2 is more close to a ¨casual MMO¨ definition than a ¨Hard an challenging game¨. And looks like lots of you didnt play AoC, the combat and dodge system was way more complex than gw2. 

Originally posted by Theonenoni

All I was trying to do with this post is to help people adapt to the game instead of complaining about not being any good at it. 

Melee Vs Range? melee wins. 

To win with melee against range , all you have to do is cripple the ranged foe or have a pull skill. It really is best to have one ranged weapon set and one melee weapon set to swap from. 

 

Example: Thief with the skill Scorpion Wire and caltrops with double dagger.   By using the scorpion wire to pull the foe to you, you will easily close the gap. The dagger off-hand skill #4 is also a ranged cripple attack.  

Melee damage does much more damage than ranged damage.

Also, please don't forget that every profession has a ranged attack or ranged weapon to use.  One may think this makes no sense and every profession plays the same but they really dont play the same.  A ranger's longbow acts very differently to a warriors longbow. 

Dodge duck dip dive and dodge. 

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Theonenoni

All I was trying to do with this post is to help people adapt to the game instead of complaining about not being any good at it. 

Melee Vs Range? melee wins. 

To win with melee against range , all you have to do is cripple the ranged foe or have a pull skill. It really is best to have one ranged weapon set and one melee weapon set to swap from. 

 

Example: Thief with the skill Scorpion Wire and caltrops with double dagger.   By using the scorpion wire to pull the foe to you, you will easily close the gap. The dagger off-hand skill #4 is also a ranged cripple attack.  

Melee damage does much more damage than ranged damage.

Also, please don't forget that every profession has a ranged attack or ranged weapon to use.  One may think this makes no sense and every profession plays the same but they really dont play the same.  A ranger's longbow acts very differently to a warriors longbow. 

Dodge duck dip dive and dodge. 

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

in PvP melee vs range are just equal. if a good melee player can be always melee on a range player he will win, if a good range player can be always far from melee guy he will win. if both are good players will be very good fight.

what is hard and diferent from other MMORPG is the fight system not move with WASD. in any WoW clone you can use your mouse to click skills that wasnt a big disavantage (couldnt be diferent with more than 40 skills), well that in GW2 even in PvE suck. 

no tanks for me is new and i play lot of MMORPG, never see one without specific classes but i didnt try all MMORPG on market. what is other game without specific classes?

the game wasnt hard for you but you die many times, if you say that you didnt die  im sure you didnt play beta at all. or you are the best player  of GW2.

any other MMORPG i try i could lvl up until 20/30 or until enter a new dungeon without even die one time. (obvious dont count time i die when net fail). in GW2 if you reach lvl10 without die that is a miracle i say.

GW2 is hardcore for now because no one really play good the game, unless someone is a god and could do that in 2 days. never see a player good in a game with just 48h of play but who knows?

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Theonenoni

All I was trying to do with this post is to help people adapt to the game instead of complaining about not being any good at it. 

Melee Vs Range? melee wins. 

To win with melee against range , all you have to do is cripple the ranged foe or have a pull skill. It really is best to have one ranged weapon set and one melee weapon set to swap from. 

 

Example: Thief with the skill Scorpion Wire and caltrops with double dagger.   By using the scorpion wire to pull the foe to you, you will easily close the gap. The dagger off-hand skill #4 is also a ranged cripple attack.  

Melee damage does much more damage than ranged damage.

Also, please don't forget that every profession has a ranged attack or ranged weapon to use.  One may think this makes no sense and every profession plays the same but they really dont play the same.  A ranger's longbow acts very differently to a warriors longbow. 

Dodge duck dip dive and dodge. 

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

in PvP melee vs range are just equal. if a good melee player can be always melee on a range player he will win, if a good range player can be always far from melee guy he will win. if both are good players will be very good fight.

Not really. a Skilled Melee player can beat a noob ranged player. but a Skilled Range player will always beat out a skilled melee player.

what is hard and diferent from other MMORPG is the fight system not move with WASD. in any WoW clone you can use your mouse to click skills that wasnt a big disavantage (couldnt be diferent with more than 40 skills), well that in GW2 even in PvE suck. 

GW2 also has abilities that can be clicked on. Not sure what you are trying to say. Even Dodge can be clicked on.

no tanks for me is new and i play lot of MMORPG, never see one without specific classes but i didnt try all MMORPG on market. what is other game without specific classes?

Many MMO dont have trinity tanking mechanics. look them up.

the game wasnt hard for you but you die many times, if you say that you didnt die  im sure you didnt play beta at all. or you are the best player  of GW2.

Dying!= Hard. Demon Soul made you die many times. its not hard, just frustrating. key difference.

any other MMORPG i try i could lvl up until 20/30 or until enter a new dungeon without even die one time. (obvious dont count time i die when net fail). in GW2 if you reach lvl10 without die that is a miracle i say.

statement above.

GW2 is hardcore for now because no one really play good the game, unless someone is a god and could do that in 2 days. never see a player good in a game with just 48h of play but who knows?

sorry but its not Hardcore. not even close.

I know I said the last post would be it. but this is it.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

I consistently fought against enemies 5-7 levels higher than me, using melee, sometimes two at once.

I think you're just bad at melee.  ... and if you read the Arenanet posts about melee, you'd see they're not changing much, and that a large portion of what they're changing is that melee just takes more skill to play and they need a way to help people learn that skill.

Yeah, ranged might be EASIER to use, but that doesn't make it better.  Melee beats things down a lot faster if you're doing it right.  Maybe you just think taking longer in fights is the sign of a pro player, because it gives you more time to kite?

(On another note, having both ranged and melee weapons on hand at the same time often comes in handy. :P )

Demon Souls isnt hard....why are we taking this guy serious??? looool

is easy game but we diie and keep die, so what make a game hard?? better tell me a game that is hard to you and other MMORPG that dont have specific classes (you say exist many but i dont know them )

about part of click in skills read again what i say, i bet you didnt even read. i didnt say you couldnt click on skills / change weapon / special class bar / dodge etc, i say someone will play that way will be a very bad player on GW2 but in other MMORPG with WoW combat mechanic someone who play that way could be a excelent player

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

I consistently fought against enemies 5-7 levels higher than me, using melee, sometimes two at once.

I think you're just bad at melee.  ... and if you read the Arenanet posts about melee, you'd see they're not changing much, and that a large portion of what they're changing is that melee just takes more skill to play and they need a way to help people learn that skill.

Yeah, ranged might be EASIER to use, but that doesn't make it better.  Melee beats things down a lot faster if you're doing it right.  Maybe you just think taking longer in fights is the sign of a pro player, because it gives you more time to kite?

(On another note, having both ranged and melee weapons on hand at the same time often comes in handy. :P )

From what i understood the Mellee versus range issue only excistst in zerg vs zerg PvP. Where everyone is using ranged AoE Mellee suddenly becomes a no go. So on the beta forums they asked to make Mellee more viable in WvWvW. 

 

I never understood this issue, as its has allways been an issue in MMO's and mexican stand offs. Arenanet allready overcame this issue by giving every class (except the guardian) long ranged options.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Only thing different is that it doesn't have Tank threat mechanics. Many MMO also have similar mechanics. What's to learn?

That you would even ask "What's to learn" sort of proves that you just are not equiped with the knowledge or experience needed to possess an accurate picture of this game. I hope you will have an opportunity to participate in a BWE and will commit to extensive game play, with an open mind. Even if you were to find the game is not for you, I think you'd still gain an appreciation for what the game offers and the learning curve involved in becoming a good player.

There is a lot of depth to this game, but you need to take a leap down that rabbit hole to appreciate what lies beneath the surface.

 

I played in BWE and had no issues with the mechanics. I jumped right in and started playing. Didn't take years of rocket science to figure out what I needed to do. There was clearly a Melee vs Ranged balance issues when it comes to mechanics. Anet has accounted on this balance issue. Right now you have to exploit the mechanics, but who finds that fun? Come on!

I ask, prove me and Anet wrong.

How can I prove whether or not you are willing and able to learn to play the game with a greater grasp of the mechanics and better game play? I think you are capable of learning to play more skillfully and even coming to appreciate the learning curve does indeed exist, but in the end it comes down to your abilities and willingness to learn. (Usually an unwillingness to even admit there is something for you to learn is a pretty strong impediment to actual learning).

You have to utilize the game machanics to achieve better levels of efficiency, not exploit them, as if using the dynamic combat mechanics is somehow cheating. I realize many other games have considered anything other than standing still, spamming attacks to be an exploit. GW2 is not one of those games.  (I actually got a warning in SWG once for kiting a mob around a tree. In GW2, that would be fair play and something your character would do, in order to survive and be victorious).

 

 ^ That shocked me so much I signed up for the forums. How on earth can people use to that sort of thing ever come to grips with something like gw2? If people have been trained into mindsets that allow mods to dictate how you can move in a fight, in a game, within the game parameters......  just wow........lol.

 Ya know... if those type of people want to hate on gw2 and not play it....... awesome!

GW play is alot different than what most people are use to, and even willing to accept, apparently. Just take a look at how the player community has evolved in gw1. That game is 7 years old this month.... and tons of people still refuse to play it for what it is, and attempt to force a set play style on it, and then blame everyone else in the game when they lose, for their own lack of comprehending the skill system.

 I personally was never into MMO's in the least bit until a friend from battlefield introduced me to gw1 during it's beta phase. Yes, I know it's considered more a Co-OpRPG or w/e.

Not long before that I was turned onto Magic: the gathering, card game.  Played that over a summer with some friends. Playing Magic, I'm sure gave me a little more insight to something like the GW style of play.  Hopefully, anet finds some way to convey this sort of thing to the masses of new players. I know the community will play a large part in conveying this to new comers. But of what I've witnessed from other MMO's and how they affect the thought process of the masses, it's gonna be a tough slog, dare I say, almost a grind.....lol

Awesome OP btw! was really refreshing to see on a forum such as this.

and LOL@ Jon Peters indirectly saying L2P, loved that. Was waiting for so long for anet to say that to the gw1 community.

People need to clear their heads and approach GW as it's own genre I'm thinking, seems it would be the easiest way for them to get their heads wrapped around what they need to do to play well, as melee or ranged, and given the fact we can be viable with both is utterly ground breaking in itself.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

I consistently fought against enemies 5-7 levels higher than me, using melee, sometimes two at once.

I think you're just bad at melee.  ... and if you read the Arenanet posts about melee, you'd see they're not changing much, and that a large portion of what they're changing is that melee just takes more skill to play and they need a way to help people learn that skill.

Yeah, ranged might be EASIER to use, but that doesn't make it better.  Melee beats things down a lot faster if you're doing it right.  Maybe you just think taking longer in fights is the sign of a pro player, because it gives you more time to kite?

(On another note, having both ranged and melee weapons on hand at the same time often comes in handy. :P )

 

I think neither side can prove the other side wrong until they use strict mathematics to prove that one side is superior to another one. Not even the developer's word is good enough in this scenario, for all we know their expertise may not be mathematics at all.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Ok I give up. I agree to disagree.

Settled ?

You played the beta, and say Melee is better than Ranged, and I played beta and say other wise.

seem strange to me that Anet is looking into changing things, if the only issue was player skill. but oh well.

The game wasnt hard to me. So I know many of you think it was hard. WASD movement, was something I been doing in every MMO I play. that wasnt hard to get use to when I been already doing it. not sure whats hard about GW2.

no tanking? thats not new, so I guess I have experience playing MMO without tanks. So this wasnt hard to me.

but yeah, oh well. GW2 is hardcore like you say. I just agree to disagree. Ok?

I consistently fought against enemies 5-7 levels higher than me, using melee, sometimes two at once.

I think you're just bad at melee.  ... and if you read the Arenanet posts about melee, you'd see they're not changing much, and that a large portion of what they're changing is that melee just takes more skill to play and they need a way to help people learn that skill.

Yeah, ranged might be EASIER to use, but that doesn't make it better.  Melee beats things down a lot faster if you're doing it right.  Maybe you just think taking longer in fights is the sign of a pro player, because it gives you more time to kite?

(On another note, having both ranged and melee weapons on hand at the same time often comes in handy. :P )

 

I think neither side can prove the other side wrong until they use strict mathematics to prove that one side is superior to another one. Not even the developer's word is good enough in this scenario, for all we know their expertise may not be mathematics at all.

Too much to mathmaticize (that's a word, really) anyway. There's SO many external factors to take into consideration. I do think one has a slightly easier time than the other, but I also find that one boring. I hope they don't nerf TOO much.