Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

I don't agree with your definition of grind, but TERA is definitely not light on quests.  Problem with TERA is that they are all kill 10 X quests.  That is termed a quest grinder and is even worse than a basic mob killing grinder in my opinion.  GW2 differs in that dynamic events have much more variety.  There are puzzles and minigames, and when it comes time for killin' mobs show up and work together to kill you and other event members.  They don't just sit around in a field eating grass.  I liked TERA's combat, but I couldn't even make it to the BAM's, I was bored out of my mind by level 18.  TERA mob AI is god awful. 

But here devil advocate . GW2 is also the same thing. Kill x of Y, but with a progression bar instead of telling you how many to kill. Everything is traditional quest in GW2. Not that this a bad thing.  But it's there. Both do this. The grind in GW2 will be getting all thos skill points and max level.

Yup.  I mean, we can go ahead and define a game as a grind if there are a ton of Kill X of Y quests.  And if we do, let's just go ahead and label GW2 a grind too, since that's what many of the Dynamic Events incorporate.  That's my whole point.  

Also, TERA's mob AI is pretty bad pre-20.  Trust me when I say it gets pretty damn good after 20 and into the 30's.  

Originally posted by Eir_S
GW2 fans shouldn't mention Tera and vice versa, everyone knows what happens.

And it makes no sense, does it?  It's like it's a crime against nature to enjoy both games...

Originally posted by RebelScum99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

I don't agree with your definition of grind, but TERA is definitely not light on quests.  Problem with TERA is that they are all kill 10 X quests.  That is termed a quest grinder and is even worse than a basic mob killing grinder in my opinion.  GW2 differs in that dynamic events have much more variety.  There are puzzles and minigames, and when it comes time for killin' mobs show up and work together to kill you and other event members.  They don't just sit around in a field eating grass.  I liked TERA's combat, but I couldn't even make it to the BAM's, I was bored out of my mind by level 18.  TERA mob AI is god awful. 

But here devil advocate . GW2 is also the same thing. Kill x of Y, but with a progression bar instead of telling you how many to kill. Everything is traditional quest in GW2. Not that this a bad thing.  But it's there. Both do this. The grind in GW2 will be getting all thos skill points and max level.

Yup.  I mean, we can go ahead and define a game as a grind if there are a ton of Kill X of Y quests.  And if we do, let's just go ahead and label GW2 a grind too, since that's what many of the Dynamic Events incorporate.  That's my whole point.  

Also, TERA's mob AI is pretty bad pre-20.  Trust me when I say it gets pretty damn good after 20 and into the 30's.  

Early level mobs in GW2 are pretty bad on the AI as well. If you have a range weapon, you and circle tank mobs without dodging. Smh

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by RebelScum99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

I don't agree with your definition of grind, but TERA is definitely not light on quests.  Problem with TERA is that they are all kill 10 X quests.  That is termed a quest grinder and is even worse than a basic mob killing grinder in my opinion.  GW2 differs in that dynamic events have much more variety.  There are puzzles and minigames, and when it comes time for killin' mobs show up and work together to kill you and other event members.  They don't just sit around in a field eating grass.  I liked TERA's combat, but I couldn't even make it to the BAM's, I was bored out of my mind by level 18.  TERA mob AI is god awful. 

But here devil advocate . GW2 is also the same thing. Kill x of Y, but with a progression bar instead of telling you how many to kill. Everything is traditional quest in GW2. Not that this a bad thing.  But it's there. Both do this. The grind in GW2 will be getting all thos skill points and max level.

Yup.  I mean, we can go ahead and define a game as a grind if there are a ton of Kill X of Y quests.  And if we do, let's just go ahead and label GW2 a grind too, since that's what many of the Dynamic Events incorporate.  That's my whole point.  

Also, TERA's mob AI is pretty bad pre-20.  Trust me when I say it gets pretty damn good after 20 and into the 30's.  

Early level mobs in GW2 are pretty bad on the AI as well. If you have a range weapon, you and circle tank mobs without dodging. Smh

You mean like first two levels...becfause mobs ramp up pretty early in the game. Sitting around doing what you do in most other mmo's won t cut it even at early levels in GW2.

Originally posted by Eletheryl
People still dont undestand that there is a lot of people who still play and love SWTOR. I will play GW2, tried the beta, but as a war veteran all i can say is that GW2 is pretty much a warhammer clone, and when finally people will have the chance to play it for more than 3 days, you´ll see all the problems that the game have. GW2 is a casual MMO, i mean while in a game like TSW u have more than 500 skills (both games have the same system, but in TSW you play the role that you want, they dont have levels, or classes) in gw2 you unlock all ur weapons skills at level 5. Im not trolling, but you guys talking about GW2 like something huge and epic, when the game is really far far away from that, and games like TSW as an example are more complex, depth or innovative than GW2, I will play it knowing that it will be a casual game, they dont even have a competitive pvp system so far, if you are waiting for something different then sry, but we will find a lot of disappointed people.

First of all, I played WAR for years, second of all I also played DAoC.  Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong.  WAR was a failed successor to DAoC, the two faction system just did not work for RvR.  Also, the layouts are completely different than what WAR had.  Do you not realize what 3 servers means to the system, do you not realize what a competitive server ladder, what swapping servers every 2 weeks will mean for it?  Things will be played out differently every 2 weeks, and you will be matched with appropriate servers for your server's level of competition.  Also, there is a lot of tactical depth in the WvW.  Do you know how important supply is, and how easy it is to run out of it?  Do you know what happens when your enemy controls the supply and dries you out in your keep?  Things fall, it adds a lot more tactical strategy, because you need smaller groups taking care of the supply, you need to hold towers that are near the supply to keep them defended well, and you ultimately want to hold the CK, "Central Keep if you didn't play DAoC."

Also, why would you try and compare TSW skill system to GW2?  Do you realize that they already made the whole choose all your skills system in GW1?  It led to actual less builds, because each profession only had about 2 or 3 builds that were optimal for the highest level of play.  That is why GW2 switched to templated weapon builds, because it gives them a stable set of skills that won't be swapped out, this makes it much easier to balance and ensure viability on these weapons.  With more viability, comes more builds.  Also, you can still choose your healing skill and utility skills/Elite which plays a big role in your character building. 

The only time I got hyped about SWTOR was when I saw the trailer for the first time, and then I saw some videos and instantly saw that it had a standard MMO gameplay. That turned me off the game instantly. For me star wars is about epic fights, you dont get epic fights with that sort of combat system. Sure it can be fun, but it just does not fit Star Wars for me. 

Ive been hyped about GW2 since they announced it since I knew it was coming from the makers of GW1. I knew that they would not make a "WoW clone kind of game". Even if they kept the gameplay of GW1 it would been awesome. But they have taken it so much further than I could expect, as many others says the hype is real. Its a really fun game and I have not enjoyed leveling from lvl  1 to 3, or 5 to 20 as much as I did during the beta weekend. Liked your videos, also watched your SWTOR preview. Although its clear that you have not followed GW2 as much as others have, I think you gave a nice idea to new comers how the game is. Glad you like it;)

Originally posted by iamflymolo

At least that's the way things are shaping up. To be honest, I was very skeptical of both games at this time last year. The hype on both has been insane. The devs seemed equally arrogant. From Bioware we got, "We're going to revolutionize mmorpgs because we're Bioware and we know how to do rpg like no other company can imagine." From ArenaNet we got, "We're going to revolutionize mmorpgs because we've seen what's stale in the genre and we know how to fix it."

Bioware over-promised and under-delivered at almost every turn. The story was good, the voice acting that they were hanging their fortunes on was great, imo. But the rest of the game was as sloppy as could be. As I state in my review, "A lot of people over at Bioware made a lot of money for doing very little work." Considering the budget and who the developer was, this should have been a game that revolutionized mmo's but I believe Bioware was blinded by their perception of their own greatness.

As for GW2, I thought they were sort of painting themselves in a corner with their whole "no holy trinity" thing that they announced so long ago. Had their mechanics not worked they left themselves no room to change. At the same time, they were taking SO DARN LONG to release (I found an old article that announced possible release as early as 2008) that I thought this might become the Duke Nukem Forever of the mmo market. Of course, with no release date yet and a ton of game content still not available in beta this is still possible. But what I found after playing beta is that ArenaNet actually under-promised and over-delivered. So much of this game was new and unexpected. For my money, GW2 actually has a chance to significantly change the genre moving forward like no other game has.

[Mod Edit - Do not advertise personal youtube channels.]

 

Admittedly, I was more nit-picky with swtor probably because I was having so much less fun with it than I did with GW2. When I do a final review of GW2 after launch I will be looking for more to nit-pick.

As an aside, I think GW2 puts Tera in some jeopardy, too, because the main thing Tera has going for it is combat and I think GW2 does combat as well if not better.

GW2 isn't out yet so we don't know what it will be and given alot of the comments I've read about the recent beta as well as the marketing tactics they have shown they aren't above using I'd say by release you may have just as much to nit pick them about too.

GW2 is a different type of game to SWTOR (a much better game imo, but very different non the less)

TSW is SWTOR done right (as both are meant to be story based mmos) - better story, but less of it as it doesn't have pointless voice over for "kill 10 whomprats",  less instanced, more alive world, more atmosphere

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by Eletheryl
People still dont undestand that there is a lot of people who still play and love SWTOR. I will play GW2, tried the beta, but as a war veteran all i can say is that GW2 is pretty much a warhammer clone, and when finally people will have the chance to play it for more than 3 days, you´ll see all the problems that the game have. GW2 is a casual MMO, i mean while in a game like TSW u have more than 500 skills (both games have the same system, but in TSW you play the role that you want, they dont have levels, or classes) in gw2 you unlock all ur weapons skills at level 5. Im not trolling, but you guys talking about GW2 like something huge and epic, when the game is really far far away from that, and games like TSW as an example are more complex, depth or innovative than GW2, I will play it knowing that it will be a casual game, they dont even have a competitive pvp system so far, if you are waiting for something different then sry, but we will find a lot of disappointed people.

First of all, I played WAR for years, second of all I also played DAoC.  Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong.  WAR was a failed successor to DAoC, the two faction system just did not work for RvR.  Also, the layouts are completely different than what WAR had.  Do you not realize what 3 servers means to the system, do you not realize what a competitive server ladder, what swapping servers every 2 weeks will mean for it?  Things will be played out differently every 2 weeks, and you will be matched with appropriate servers for your server's level of competition.  Also, there is a lot of tactical depth in the WvW.  Do you know how important supply is, and how easy it is to run out of it?  Do you know what happens when your enemy controls the supply and dries you out in your keep?  Things fall, it adds a lot more tactical strategy, because you need smaller groups taking care of the supply, you need to hold towers that are near the supply to keep them defended well, and you ultimately want to hold the CK, "Central Keep if you didn't play DAoC."

Also, why would you try and compare TSW skill system to GW2?  Do you realize that they already made the whole choose all your skills system in GW1?  It led to actual less builds, because each profession only had about 2 or 3 builds that were optimal for the highest level of play.  That is why GW2 switched to templated weapon builds, because it gives them a stable set of skills that won't be swapped out, this makes it much easier to balance and ensure viability on these weapons.  With more viability, comes more builds.  Also, you can still choose your healing skill and utility skills/Elite which plays a big role in your character building. 

TSW doesnt have profesions, its not pick skills from your profession and sub profession.  It's pick any bloomin skill you want, could be chaos, should be fun.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

But here devil advocate . GW2 is also the same thing. Kill x of Y, but with a progression bar instead of telling you how many to kill. Everything is traditional quest in GW2. Not that this a bad thing.  But it's there. Both do this. The grind in GW2 will be getting all thos skill points and max level.

Really?

I was getting skill points and levels faster by slaughtering players in WvW. I guess it was a grind for my victims but not me.

edit- the only thing I was grinding was a mace on skulls.

I really don't know if GW2 is what Swtor should have been, in fact i'm pretty damn sure that even if Swtor turned to be a wonderful game (which i think the majority of people were expecting), it really wouldn't have been like GW2 at all. Those games where just not designed at all with the same goals, they were quiet at the opposite in fact in many aspects.
 
But the fact is, Swtor, at least for me, was a very bad game, but honestly you could tell it a long time before release, those guys had pretty much no clue what they were doing. At the very beginning the game was supposed to be pve only, just a little example, i mean who would even do a pve exclusive mmo today, as if we are still in the EQ era? When pretty much every single of the best game shot in the industry is pvp centric. And this is even more ridiculous because those guys were claiming all over the floor that Wow was their God, and they were religiously following it, when Wow specifically shattered this "only pve" attitude in themeparks, way to totally miss the most obvious.
 
But this is just an example, the game design was filled with this kind of nonsense, and many other stuff screaming they just had no clue what they were doing. FOr me the game began to really upset me at the second half of beta when it was clear they just had no time to do any proper job on their game, and had to rush pretty much the entire game, but were still so proud about how well they were doing and how finished their end product will be, even though half the mmo went into the toilet then. This is when they really began to upset me.

What puzzle me even today is that Bioware made their Wow copy even worst that a noob company like Trion, way to slap yourself in front of the mirror i guess, and honestly Rift isn't a jewel in mmos either, its a fair game, but that's it really. But i guess the worst decision came from EA that asked Bioware to make their little core work with this Bioware wheel dialogue stuff, but exported pretty much the rest of the game to 3d world countries developers, that's what really killed the game, its like screaming it everywhere you go in Swtor. You just can't do that with a mmo that need to be built around a very dense and cohesive world. So the game suffered as much from Bioware excessive confidence, as much as from Ea greediness, and since both those company are over the top in those domains, well the result was quiet bad.

Originally posted by andre369

The only time I got hyped about SWTOR was when I saw the trailer for the first time, and then I saw some videos and instantly saw that it had a standard MMO gameplay. That turned me off the game instantly. For me star wars is about epic fights, you dont get epic fights with that sort of combat system. Sure it can be fun, but it just does not fit Star Wars for me. 

Ive been hyped about GW2 since they announced it since I knew it was coming from the makers of GW1. I knew that they would not make a "WoW clone kind of game". Even if they kept the gameplay of GW1 it would been awesome. But they have taken it so much further than I could expect, as many others says the hype is real. Its a really fun game and I have not enjoyed leveling from lvl  1 to 3, or 5 to 20 as much as I did during the beta weekend. Liked your videos, also watched your SWTOR preview. Although its clear that you have not followed GW2 as much as others have, I think you gave a nice idea to new comers how the game is. Glad you like it;)

i agree,

the holy-trinity DOES NOT fit with the star wars theme.

whether or not people like the GW combat, it would've suited the SW theme MUUUUCCCHH better.

i never saw a  tank or a healer in those SW movies.

this for me was the biggest let down. You can't combine two amazing things and always expect it to work.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
To add - GW2 isnt SWTOR done right.  Its Warhammer done right - very right indeed :)

Actually, GW2 is just GW2 done right, nothing else.

Yeah GW2 is what every MMO should have been so that we can all start making 'GW2 clone' topics and how there is no variety nd imagination in genre and how we need a new MMO company to save us from world of clones.

I don't think this satement will stop any sooner and will only get more prevelent with every new MMO release. Embrace yourself.

(i already see people talking about how GW2 is what Tera and TSW should have been).

Every MMO game is a clone / copy / rip of every other game that has gone before. Of course the devs take ideas from other games, where players have liked those ideas. And also the devs think of totally new ideas, that they think hasn't been tried before, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Warhammers public quests were nice newish idea and I'm glad that more developers are adopting it to their games.

DAoC's massive battles was great idea and I'm glad it also has taken new growth in MMO market (GW2 isn't the first to try it after DAoC).

Tabula Rasa's outpost fights were great fun and GW2 has similar things happening in their "Dynamic" world too. Good for them.

Many people seem to forget, or just don't know, that there have been dozens (or hundreds) of bright new MMO's that never got past the early development and they also have had great ideas and plans, but haven't been able to make them actually work. It's not only about ideas, you have to be able to make them work in the enviroment you have developed without it looking like after thought add on.

There are very few original ideas as many things have allready been tried and found not working or been found to be a thing gamers will want and are willing to pay to get.

Even WoW is just a clone / copy of previous ideas with some original things added. 

Originally posted by iamflymolo

Originally posted by Kuppa
One thing, do you know that there is the overflow system which basically is GW2's queue system? And there is "guesting", which lets you play on other servers where you have friends on?

I know about the overflow system and there was evidently a bug that was fixed. This doesn't explain why the high population servers were the ones that people were locked out of the most and servers like mine had issues at peak playing times. SWTOR, CO, and others basically have the same type of overflow system and swtor still had queueing so I'm not convinced that Anet is entirely accurate when they say that the overflow is all that is needed. I guess we'll see at launch.

I have been informed, post video, of the guesting. My understanding is that you can only pve as a guest? If that's the case, it would still be very problematic if you were to play GW2 and then join a guild that played on another server as you would not be able to even create a new character that would be able to participate with the guild in WvW, which will likely be a focus for most guilds. I stand by what I said: this needs to be changed by launch or there will be PR issues.

If you joined a guild on another server in WOW, Rift or another other MMO you would have to pay to change servers, GW2 lets you play PVE with them with out paying, And if you want to change your home server you can, they charge the same amount as all there MMO's.  They locked FULL servers for the BWE so that it would force people to play on other servers,  and not have everyone trying to join just a few.  

Originally posted by iamflymolo

As an aside, I think GW2 puts Tera in some jeopardy, too, because the main thing Tera has going for it is combat and I think GW2 does combat as well if not better.

I agree.  Infact you can "Aim" in Gw2 as well and just play the game that way and sometimes be even more effective with certain skills. (hit things you're not supposed to be hitting, or lunge through another melee without stopping in range of his counter attack)