Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I dont even support the current paradigm of dungeons giving cosmetic gear. you have to be outside your mind to think id do a raid just for cosmetic gear.

 

Not sure where these weak breed of gamer came from that doesnt want to earn any items and honestly believes everyone should be equal at all times. But this cosmetic only gear shit in dungeons will not catch on, and honestly im not sure how long it will last in guild wars 2.

 

Sounds good on paper, but i honestly dont see a large majority of players farming dungeons for costumes... especially when there is an item mall in game which is no doubt sell costumes...

Really?

Then why do people put so much effort into looking different? Why do people complain about armour models. Appearance is very important to gamers.

People want to look different, sure. How many people do you think want to run a 5 hour instance purely for a cosmetic item?

 

Poll your friends if they are gamers, dont tell them anything else, ask them if they would do a raid, knowing the only items youd get are fluff. It wont make you stronger, wont make you faster, wont make you better in any way shape or form, it is just for looks, like an emote, or a cute pet or dyes, Ask them if they would raid for dyes. Only dyes, nothing else.

So to me the whole point of a MMORPG is the journey, i feel this is the sole reason why GW2 intrigues me, and has captured the attention of me and my whole family. 

I do not need a raid to enjoy the journey that is available in GW2, the items we pick up along the way is just a sidenote to the experience i am having in a game, it never should have become the only reason to do it.

 

Some how as gamers, we have lost that sense of exploration, the sense of wonder we had when we first played our first mmo, because i know i had it back then. Now its become a treadmill to get the uber gear. I would actually be more impressed with a title stating i went someplace and found something that very few have. I would rather play in a raid in the WvW zone that has a sense of cohesion to better my server than just a raid to kill some boss at the end for my golden carrot.

Maybe i am ultruistic and long for my DAoC days (pre-TOA) or miss my SWG days (pre-NGE) but i kn ow its the sense of wonder the sense of finding something new that makes me want to play GW2.

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

Raids are nothing more then a glorified epeen contest and do nothing to foster community. 

In fact the elitist attitudes that raiding brings to an MMO do everything to segment communities and are a devisive wedge that kills comraderie. 

Open world raiding such as the Elder Dragons in GW2 are the best source for fostering a massively cooperative environment.

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You've never successfully raided have you? It takes effort to get 20 people to work in concert together to accomplish a single goal. I detect more elitism coming from this post than I ever did out of my raid guild.

anyone who has played Rift for any amount of time will tell you that dynamic Open World Raids, while very fun, are nothing more than large scale zerg fests and do nothing, and I mean NOTHING to foster any type of massive cooperation.

Every sentence in your post is nothing but opinionated, unfounded utter garbage. The fact that you can't raid doesn't mean there is something wrong with the raiding system or with those who do it. I am sorry to be so blunt, but this is just wrong.

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Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
Like TOR.

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It's quite funny you even mentioned SWTOR here. :) SWTOR has raids, it has gear progression and it still bleeds subs like all other WoW clones did before it.
 
Face it, the success of WoW was a one-time event. It won't be replicated by any other traditional gear progression sub-based themepark MMO. Like no other 3D movie could beat Avatar sales. I like Avatar but there are other good movies too. Yet you can't hope to beat Avatar just because you have 3D too. It was a one-time event, it was novelty factor.
 
I still think that WoW was a great game but all the cloning makes me somewhat agree with those people who say WoW hurt the entire genre. Because most MMO developers stopped experimenting and rushed for quick and easy money which they never really got after all.
 
You can make a 3D movie but you won't earn $3 billion. You can write an OS but it won't become Windows. You can clone a game but you can't clone success.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

anyone who has played Rift for any amount of time will tell you that dynamic Open World Raids, while very fun, do nothing, and I mean NOTHING to foster any type of massive cooperation.

Every sentence in your post is nothing but opinionated, unfounded utter garbage. The fact that you can't raid doesn't mean there is something wrong with the raiding system or with those who do it. I am sorry to be so blunt, but this is just wrong.

And anyone who's played WAR could tell you the exact opposite. Furthermore, I'm guessing you never did any of the harder rifts in RIFT. There were (can't speak for the last few months because I haven't played since, but I'd presume they are still there) epic rifts that actually did require a raid to complete. If you weren't talking, coordinating, etc. you were whiping, and unlike a traditional raid you didn't have to reserve massive chunks of time in order to complete it, nor were you locked out of doing it again once finished.

Fact is, there ARE issues with traditional raiding. As with any mechanic it has it's strengths & weaknesses. I get that some people really enjoy it, it seems to fit really well with people on a standard weekly schedule, but not everyone lives that way. However, while it does encourage guilds to get small groups of people together to do these (and yes, compared to an entire server even 20 people is small), it encourages zero interaction with the rest of the server. That's not a tool that helps build a community, that's a bunch of friends playing. Is it challenging? absolutely, but once the inital challenge of getting the right people into the group is met, and you understand the boss mechanics, it becomes monotonous and boring. There's a reason that with the traditional raid system, people are only logging in for a few hours a week to do dailies / raids, and then logging.

Will the open world meta-events become boring in GW2? Possibly, but it'll be a lot more dependant on the server's community than anything else. Think getting 20 people to cooperate is hard? Try getting what's basically a dynamic PUG to cooperate for a raid boss.

- For some this type of chaotic combat will be a headache, for others it will absolutely be a breath of fresh air.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Im saying it would get boring if it had no purpose beyond fun.

For instance, i just beat uncharted 3, it was fun. I then played it again on Hard mode. Now i am done with it, im not going to keep playing it over and over again just because it is fun.

Ok now you've got me confused.  So lets say you beat uncharted 3 (twice) and had fun playing it.  Now, you aren't going to play it again because it isn't fun anymore? but you WOULD play it again if the game gave you a new gun that did 25% more damage?

 

I guess the part I'm really confused about is where you say "it would get boring if it [was only] fun".  I'm pretty sure boring and fun are antonyms, so that sentance is really throwing me off.

yeah i guess. i would be more interested in this sort of raid (where, theoretically, people would be more laid back about succeeding/failing, while still being challenged), than a "normal" raid.

EDIT: worth noting that i voted "no" just because while they might be okay and work, i still don't want to see them in the game. the high level explorables will suffice me i think.

All games are fun, until they are not fun anymore then we buy a new one and rinse and repeat..

I have many, many games of every type sitting on my rack i have completed them all some once some numerous times in one way or another most were fun or very fun and some even provide treasured gaming memories, however i am not interested in playing these old games again and im really not interested in playing the clones of these games..

GW2 and perhaps TSW are going to offer us something new and different, GW2 being a B2P that i have played myself makes it by far my first choice but just like every other game i will eventually complete it and move on to the dungeons and PvP, WvW while awaiting an expansion...

Due to it being a B2P if i for some reason burnout i will be able to move on and come back later without incurring a monthly fee..

Bottomline is its hard to lose with GW2 even if you try it and it doesnt resinate well with you..

As for raid material for reward or cosmetic if many players want it and Anet can twist it into something fun for players and fit it in to an expansion or DLC why not?

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

anyone who has played Rift for any amount of time will tell you that dynamic Open World Raids, while very fun, do nothing, and I mean NOTHING to foster any type of massive cooperation.

Every sentence in your post is nothing but opinionated, unfounded utter garbage. The fact that you can't raid doesn't mean there is something wrong with the raiding system or with those who do it. I am sorry to be so blunt, but this is just wrong.

And anyone who's played WAR could tell you the exact opposite. Furthermore, I'm guessing you never did any of the harder rifts in RIFT. There were (can't speak for the last few months because I haven't played since, but I'd presume they are still there) epic rifts that actually did require a raid to complete. If you weren't talking, coordinating, etc. you were whiping, and unlike a traditional raid you didn't have to reserve massive chunks of time in order to complete it, nor were you locked out of doing it again once finished.

Now we are talking about raid rifts? You have actually proved my point.  As I stated above "dynamic Open World Raids" There is a huge difference from Raid Rifts.

Fact is, there ARE issues with traditional raiding. As with any mechanic it has it's strengths & weaknesses. 

So gut the whole system altogether because there were issues? And what issues are we talking about. To me, it sounds more like it's your issue and not the game. Which is fine, if Raiding isnt for you, but don't kill it for me because you don't like it.

I get that some people really enjoy it, it seems to fit really well with people on a standard weekly schedule, but not everyone lives that way. However, while it does encourage guilds to get small groups of people together to do these (and yes, compared to an entire server even 20 people is small), it encourages zero interaction with the rest of the server.

That has nothing to do with instanced raiding. Are you suggesting that since a 20 man instance doen't unite a server that it has no place? 

That's not a tool that helps build a community, that's a bunch of friends playing. Is it challenging? absolutely, but once the inital challenge of getting the right people into the group is met, and you understand the boss mechanics, it becomes monotonous and boring. There's a reason that with the traditional raid system, people are only logging in for a few hours a week to do dailies / raids, and then logging.

Will the open world meta-events become boring in GW2? Possibly,

How can they not? There are limits to what AI can do and how to not get repetative. It will take less time since there is no motivation to continue to do them once they start to feel grindy.

but it'll be a lot more dependant on the server's community than anything else. Think getting 20 people to cooperate is hard? Try getting what's basically a dynamic PUG to cooperate for a raid boss.

LOL, it's a zerg. They don't cooperate. You come into it knowing what you are doing or you learn to do it.

- For some this type of chaotic combat will be a headache, for others it will absolutely be a breath of fresh air.

It's not that new

 

Voted yes.  Even novelty rewards would be cool.

I chose yes simply because I don't care. I would be willing to do a raid now and then if my guild was wanting to. I have no problem with other people that DO enjoy raiding a lot having that option given to them. It won't be my end game, but if it's there ideal of what end game should be than who cares? (unles it delays launch...then NO)

Maybe I'm strange, but I definitely would be willing to raid for cosmetic stuff.  In fact, when I was playing LoTRO, basically the only thing I did was level and blast through quest lines to get cosmetic gear.

Not only that, but it kept me playing.  I wound up getting through most of the Rise of Isengard content that way, when to be honest the game ceased to be fun for me around level 25 (95% of the quests just flat out suck).  But, I enjoyed scrounging up armor pieces for outfits enough that I continued to play long after I would have otherwise quit.  I was willing to work my way up into the higher levels just to be able to play around with the RoI expansion armor pieces.  And all of this while playing a Warden class, which the RoI update pretty much destroyed.

So, when GW2 started announcing things about their cosmetics, like the dye system, my attention was grabbed at once.  If my character doesn't look good or appealing to me, and doesn't show signs of being able to become so, I pretty much quit the game right then and there.  Thus far GW2 looks quite promising.  I imagine the role-players out there are pretty excited.  Now to hope their writing skills get better alongside the cosmetics... ha.

Maybe my stance has something to do with my being an art student, but for whatever the reason, good character customization is among the biggest selling points for me for any MMO.  (I mean, what else is there to do, exactly?  Quest?  Get killed by no-life min/maxers?  Pfft.)

I'd much rather have people EARNING cosmetic rewards in game than paying RL cash for them.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I am not making any arguement to add raids into guild wars. My arugement is, i woulnt raid in guild wars if gear progression wasnt there as an incentive. Raiding for cosmetic items woudlnt even be remotely appealing.

Like i have said, ill be playing guild wars for what it is, a good pvp game. but its pve is pretty weak interms of replayability.

So, you won't run dungeons either?

And how many hours does a game have to offer to have "replayability"? GW2 will probably have 500+ hours of PvE content, how the heck is that not enough?

I definitely would.  I love raids, not just for the purples but for the rush from coordinating efforts to take down some big ass boss. Thats the thing I've always disliked about raids in current mmo's is that everyone is so worried about gear and it drains the fun out of it completely.  Anyways, i'd be all for raids for only cosmetic rewards.

Originally posted by NMStudio

I'd much rather have people EARNING cosmetic rewards in game than paying RL cash for them.

Da hell?

Damn why did I ask a rhetoric uestion, that's my fault because we ll know what it's all about.

The survey question can only be answered with a question:

Is the boss fun and challenging (or at least new)?

As expected, this poll doesn't show a significant difference between the amount of people who would want raids over the current (and permanent) "no-raids" setup.  If they looked at a poll like this, they'd feel justified going the route they did.

NOQ!

 

they should focus on pvp and don't waste their ressources for some barbieshit (same for 'housing').

5 man raids aren't considered raids?   So how many players is the 'minimum' required for an instanced dungeon run to be considered a 'raid'?

 

Originally posted by EvilestTwin

5 man raids aren't considered raids?   So how many players is the 'minimum' required for an instanced dungeon run to be considered a 'raid'?

 

10, oh and don't forget.. you have the chance to not win any rolls and wait a full week before it opens again so you can fail to win anything next week too.