Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Semibrucelee

Originally posted by Yamota

"I think, therefore I am."

Fanboys and alike cannot think for themselves and can only follow others so this "negativism" you are talking about is simply free thinking individuals who are not afraid to speak up.

Sorry you are dumb. It is negativism if the person wastes his energy on something he dislikes. It is not the same as criticism. Free thinking individuals? What the hell?

Well put.

Yes, well put... If you can't think of an intelligent reasoned response call people stupid and other derogatory names to get your point across.  That'll show everyone who's really got the moral high ground.

The funny thing is:

I've played GW1 and been a GW2 fanboy ever since it was announced.

These days, i consider most fanboys borderline-insane, while many "hater" posts sound kinda smart and reasonable.

Funny how times are changing.

Originally posted by melangel

Originally posted by Dissolution

 

I can understand that. However, looking at the genre as it is I do not think we can count on itto be "aloof" about anything anymore. GW2 is not going to be hurt by a positive or negative reaction. It seems to have a timing that is going to grab alot of folks (regardless of what they say on these forums) for the box cost. No monthly fee guaranteeing that even more. With everything it has going for it any press draws attention to its release and that is all they really need. The negativity is just backlash against an overly vocal, and someyimes naive group that have already decided this is going to be something it can never live up to.

So much this. In the end, that is also negative to the community and the genre as a whole. This thread is aptly named.

Doubly this.

I really don't care about this game, but GW2 fans are all over this site spouting GW2 information in all these threads, and hate on the game is sooo poorly recieved.

I want GW2 to be a success, but I worry about its cash shop because, while I don't care about the game, I do care about the ramifications fo what I consider poor design to be. I am interested in The Secret World and am totally against their sub+cs model. I don't hate on GW2's cash shop because I hate GW2 (I don't hate it), I hate on it because there's this blind faith in believing ArenaNet's promises of not being evil, when information has been leaked* that suggests otherwise.

* The leaked information isn't proven because quite possibly, the only ones who can prove it, legally can't. (I'm not sure if GW2's beta even has the cash shop in it, and again, the people who can say, legally can't say).

It doesn't make ANet a bad company, regardless. It just makes them a company interested in maximum profits and this is how they think they might achieve that.

My only concern about their success, or TSW's success is to see more games greedy about money implementing cash shops and still keeping whatever other business model they choose.

Say what you like about Blizzard, but as of yet, there are no "evil" items in their cash shop. The closest is the two-passenger rocket.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs

Hmm, I seem to recall a lot of the same people crying foul over any critisism of GW2, were the worst ones bashing everything about TOR, but now when it is their game, It's wrong. Positive or negative threads won't impact who buys the game at all. It didn't stop Tor from selling a lot ox boxes, and it won't stop GW2 from it, either. If it bothers you so much, skip the threads that have a negative title, and only read the good ones.

What I still find most confusing is why some people would be "turned off" of GW2 simply by fans alone.  For starters, you're not going to meet most if any of those people in-game, since there will be millions of people playing, and they certainly won't be defending a game you're both playing.. they'll just be happy it's finally in their possession, which brings me to my second point, that I've mentioned several times before - are you really going to deprive yourself of a great game because of a small selection of people on a relatively small forum on the internet?

Kind of the height of stupidity if you ask me.

SWTOR fans were as obnoxious to me as anyone, I still tried the game and enjoyed it for a while.  Saying "Hmph, I won't play it since I saw annoying posts on MMORPG" makes you look silly.

Originally posted by ropenice

Hmm, I seem to recall a lot of the same people crying foul over any critisism of GW2, were the worst ones bashing everything about TOR, but now when it is their game, It's wrong. Positive or negative threads won't impact who buys the game at all. It didn't stop Tor from selling a lot ox boxes, and it won't stop GW2 from it, either. If it bothers you so much, skip the threads that have a negative title, and only read the good ones.

Precisely.

Originally posted by Deathofsage

Doubly this.

I really don't care about this game, but GW2 fans are all over this site spouting GW2 information in all these threads, and hate on the game is sooo poorly recieved.

I want GW2 to be a success, but I worry about its cash shop because, while I don't care about the game, I do care about the ramifications fo what I consider poor design to be. I am interested in The Secret World and am totally against their sub+cs model. I don't hate on GW2's cash shop because I hate GW2 (I don't hate it), I hate on it because there's this blind faith in believing ArenaNet's promises of not being evil, when information has been leaked* that suggests otherwise.

* The leaked information isn't proven because quite possibly, the only ones who can prove it, legally can't. (I'm not sure if GW2's beta even has the cash shop in it, and again, the people who can say, legally can't say).

It doesn't make ANet a bad company, regardless. It just makes them a company interested in maximum profits and this is how they think they might achieve that.

My only concern about their success, or TSW's success is to see more games greedy about money implementing cash shops and still keeping whatever other business model they choose.

Say what you like about Blizzard, but as of yet, there are no "evil" items in their cash shop. The closest is the two-passenger rocket.

I get you. And as someone who was also interested in TSW just because it was "different" I also worry about that one too and for the same reasons. I'm not a hater or a troll. I'm just a gamer who really doesn't want to invest my time into a game that ends up going an entirely different direction in a year or so. That's not cool and the more people accept that, the more it will happen. It's become the easy way out and that kind of sucks for the genre. And I'm NOT talking about anet in particular before people get uptight.  I don't have a crystal ball and I haven't a clue what the future holds for GW2 or for TSW for that matter. None of us know. I can only hope they are both successful and don't go the way of the status quo as of late. Time will tell. As far as negativism as a subject to be honest I wish this thread was moved to the pub instead because it's not even about one game in particular. You could easily replace the game name with x game name or y game name.

Originally posted by Eir_S

What I still find most confusing is why some people would be "turned off" of GW2 simply by fans alone.  For starters, you're not going to meet most if any of those people in-game, since there will be millions of people playing, and they certainly won't be defending a game you're both playing.. they'll just be happy it's finally in their possession, which brings me to my second point, that I've mentioned several times before - are you really going to deprive yourself of a great game because of a small selection of people on a relatively small forum on the internet?

Kind of the height of stupidity if you ask me.

SWTOR fans were as obnoxious to me as anyone, I still tried the game and enjoyed it for a while.  Saying "Hmph, I won't play it since I saw annoying posts on MMORPG" makes you look silly.

In one way I can see their point. If the majority of a games fanbase is willing to just accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect, and gives no relevent criticism, and goes so far as to try to run off or discredit thoise who do offer such criticism, there is good possiblitly the game could suck, as some glaring oversights could make it to game launch. I personally think this is one of the biggest reasons from some of SWTORs most glaring issues. Too much slavish adoration, and not enough rational critique.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Eir_S

What I still find most confusing is why some people would be "turned off" of GW2 simply by fans alone.  For starters, you're not going to meet most if any of those people in-game, since there will be millions of people playing, and they certainly won't be defending a game you're both playing.. they'll just be happy it's finally in their possession, which brings me to my second point, that I've mentioned several times before - are you really going to deprive yourself of a great game because of a small selection of people on a relatively small forum on the internet?

Kind of the height of stupidity if you ask me.

SWTOR fans were as obnoxious to me as anyone, I still tried the game and enjoyed it for a while.  Saying "Hmph, I won't play it since I saw annoying posts on MMORPG" makes you look silly.

In one way I can see their point. If the majority of a games fanbase is willing to just accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect, and gives no relevent criticism, and goes so far as to try to run off or discredit thoise who do offer such criticism, there is good possiblitly the game could suck, as some glaring oversights could make it to game launch. I personally think this is one of the biggest reasons from some of SWTORs most glaring issues. Too much slavish adoration, and not enough rational critique.

That's a good point as well, and it's one of the reasons I've softened my opinion of people bashing the game - if they have a good point, it's better that it be stated now and not after it's too late (though once again, I recommend going to a site where ANet devs regularly read or contribute to make sure the complaints are seen).  However, at the same time, not all game development teams are equal, and apart from some of the marketing decisions, I think ANet's doing pretty well on what they promised and may not need as much "correcting" in the end.  At least, I hope they don't.  Even then, ANet has proven - not a fangirl fact - they have proven that they listen to their fans.  On the other hand, I think Bioware and EA were much more willing to delete or ignore criticisms (going by their official forums).

EDIT: I also have to add that this (meaning MMORPG.com forums) is not "the majority" of any fanbase, I've been to GW2Guru and they, believe it or not, have a much higher rate of complaints per day than this site could hope to, and they are considered the core of the fanbase.  ANet is getting a lot of feedback to the game, and sometimes negativity is required, but not always, and not in some forms <trolling>

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Eir_S

What I still find most confusing is why some people would be "turned off" of GW2 simply by fans alone.  For starters, you're not going to meet most if any of those people in-game, since there will be millions of people playing, and they certainly won't be defending a game you're both playing.. they'll just be happy it's finally in their possession, which brings me to my second point, that I've mentioned several times before - are you really going to deprive yourself of a great game because of a small selection of people on a relatively small forum on the internet?

Kind of the height of stupidity if you ask me.

SWTOR fans were as obnoxious to me as anyone, I still tried the game and enjoyed it for a while.  Saying "Hmph, I won't play it since I saw annoying posts on MMORPG" makes you look silly.

In one way I can see their point. If the majority of a games fanbase is willing to just accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect, and gives no relevent criticism, and goes so far as to try to run off or discredit thoise who do offer such criticism, there is good possiblitly the game could suck, as some glaring oversights could make it to game launch. I personally think this is one of the biggest reasons from some of SWTORs most glaring issues. Too much slavish adoration, and not enough rational critique.

And in GW2's case, it's not only that this encourages "oversights". It also encourages exploiting the cash shop. NCsoft owns Anet (100% i think), they call the shots, and what they care about is profit. From a business perspective, the best way to go is to keep exploiting the cash shop until the community finally gets pissed off and threatens to boycott it. And it's already happening. Anet may or may not approve of that - it just doesn't matter.

Just compare that to EVE's monoclegate - the suits at CCP got a little carried away, a disgruntled employee leaked the plans to the community, and the outrage was so big that all plans were put on hold soon after. You don't mess with the EVE community. The naive GW2 communtiy, on the other hand... A pure gold mine, ready for the taking!

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Eir_S

What I still find most confusing is why some people would be "turned off" of GW2 simply by fans alone.  For starters, you're not going to meet most if any of those people in-game, since there will be millions of people playing, and they certainly won't be defending a game you're both playing.. they'll just be happy it's finally in their possession, which brings me to my second point, that I've mentioned several times before - are you really going to deprive yourself of a great game because of a small selection of people on a relatively small forum on the internet?

Kind of the height of stupidity if you ask me.

SWTOR fans were as obnoxious to me as anyone, I still tried the game and enjoyed it for a while.  Saying "Hmph, I won't play it since I saw annoying posts on MMORPG" makes you look silly.

In one way I can see their point. If the majority of a games fanbase is willing to just accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect, and gives no relevent criticism, and goes so far as to try to run off or discredit thoise who do offer such criticism, there is good possiblitly the game could suck, as some glaring oversights could make it to game launch. I personally think this is one of the biggest reasons from some of SWTORs most glaring issues. Too much slavish adoration, and not enough rational critique.

That's a good point as well, and it's one of the reasons I've softened my opinion of people bashing the game - if they have a good point, it's better that it be stated now and not after it's too late (though once again, I recommend going to a site where ANet devs regularly read or contribute to make sure the complaints are seen).  However, at the same time, not all game development teams are equal, and apart from some of the marketing decisions, I think ANet's doing pretty well on what they promised and may not need as much "correcting" in the end.  At least, I hope they don't.  Even then, ANet has proven - not a fangirl fact - they have proven that they listen to their fans.  On the other hand, I think Bioware and EA were much more willing to delete or ignore criticisms (going by their official forums).

EDIT: I also have to add that this (meaning MMORPG.com forums) is not "the majority" of any fanbase, I've been to GW2Guru and they, believe it or not, have a much higher rate of complaints per day than this site could hope to, and they are considered the core of the fanbase.  ANet is getting a lot of feedback to the game, and sometimes negativity is required, but not always, and not in some forms

I totally agree with what both of you have said.

I'm not going to hide the fact that I do strongly believe GW2 is amazing, revolutionary, and is a needed change to the mmo market.  I'm probably one of the people who get misunderstood as uninformed and unreasonable when it comes to most of the troll complaints on this forum.  But I will admit when I see a reasonable argument I listen and reason on that said argument.   That being said the majority of complaints that are seen here are not reasonable and are more emotional individual reactions instead of reasonable logical complaints.

Most complaints are "what if" complaints and not based on facts at all.  The what if I step outside and a bus falls on my head, IT COULD HAPPEN!!! type of bull crap arguments are way to over used on MMORPG.

The majority of cash shop complaints are just absurd, asinine, and simply childish complaints.  It has been quite a long time since I've seen a valid complaint about GW2 that didn't have a logical reason as to why it was a problem and that it was fixed.

Hypothetical complaining is just in simple dictionary terms RETARDED!! we can worry about what ifs all day long but it gets us no where other then paranoid without reason.

I've played true P2W games and cash shop dependant games(Allods, Runes of Magic, Aika, FlyFF Etc etc etc.) So when I see absurd claim GW2 is even remotely similar to what P2W and cash shop dependant really means, frankly it pisses me off.   What even makes it worse for me is when people twist the term and stretch it out of context to mean what ever the hell they personally want it to mean and not what the typical gaming community expects. And they do this just to push their own hatred towards something like the cash shop.  Just ludacris.

When I see ignorant statements about the game which is still in beta and still be optimized such as "graphics are dated" or "movement seems bad and clunky"...  credability of these types of statements just goes down the poop shoot.  NOT because I'm a Anet worshiping lemming but because I've played games that deserve those statements and know the difference.

On top of all of this is when TROLLS post "prove to me that chests are not pay 2 win" and are given logical reasonable answers that prove it is not pay 2 win they continue to further troll the topic and disregard the evidence...

Or childish absurd statements of not wanting to play a game because people are excited about the game... SERIOUSLY!! You wont be missed.. at all..  Hell if I'm heading to Disneyland for the first time ever I'm going to be excited and I don't want some little brat sittting there saying "calm down or I don't want to go"

I'm the type of gamer who can tell from previews and beta testing and reviewing other beta test videos if the game is going to be what I expect it to be.  I truly spend a lot of time looking for the accurate bad reviews, bad complaints, and what ever else negative but accurately and reasonably negative aspects of a game.  ONLY when I've exhausted my research avenues do I allow my self to start getting excited about a game.  - I don't often get excited about a game. 

Because of how I research games I realised Swotor was a waste of my time, same with Tera, I also waited 5 months after RIFT release because I knew it didn't quite have enough for me.  Because I waited long enough after the RIFT release I saved myself some horrible gaming experiences and actually ahd a great time for quite a few months.   I've been doing the same research on games for many many years and it has not failed me yet.

That all being said, I have finally allowed myself to become a drooling fan boy of GW2.  I have extremely high expectation of the game and I will recommend it to anyone and everyone including people who truly hate the word cash shop!!! why because the cash shop will not influence the game in a negative way vs those who choose to not use it PERIOD!!! The day it does is the day I'll back those boycotting the game but currently it doesn't.

I welcome the negative feedback and reviews if they are accurate and reasonable within context.  But you are for to late from stopping me from getting extremely excited about Guild Wars 2!!!

Originally posted by djmtott

Yes, because someone saying something negative about the game you're waiting for is a sure sign of a conspiracy to piss on your game. Good call.

nope but the ten million posts a day about the cash shop being pay 2 win when no one knows what's in it except the few press players who are prevented from speaking about it at all, does get tiresome the Nth time, especially when ALL facts about the game point to it not being P2W. see where i'm going here?

Originally posted by TheTrueKing

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Eir_S

What I still find most confusing is why some people would be "turned off" of GW2 simply by fans alone.  For starters, you're not going to meet most if any of those people in-game, since there will be millions of people playing, and they certainly won't be defending a game you're both playing.. they'll just be happy it's finally in their possession, which brings me to my second point, that I've mentioned several times before - are you really going to deprive yourself of a great game because of a small selection of people on a relatively small forum on the internet?

Kind of the height of stupidity if you ask me.

SWTOR fans were as obnoxious to me as anyone, I still tried the game and enjoyed it for a while.  Saying "Hmph, I won't play it since I saw annoying posts on MMORPG" makes you look silly.

In one way I can see their point. If the majority of a games fanbase is willing to just accpet anything the game company does as absoloutely perfect, and gives no relevent criticism, and goes so far as to try to run off or discredit thoise who do offer such criticism, there is good possiblitly the game could suck, as some glaring oversights could make it to game launch. I personally think this is one of the biggest reasons from some of SWTORs most glaring issues. Too much slavish adoration, and not enough rational critique.

That's a good point as well, and it's one of the reasons I've softened my opinion of people bashing the game - if they have a good point, it's better that it be stated now and not after it's too late (though once again, I recommend going to a site where ANet devs regularly read or contribute to make sure the complaints are seen).  However, at the same time, not all game development teams are equal, and apart from some of the marketing decisions, I think ANet's doing pretty well on what they promised and may not need as much "correcting" in the end.  At least, I hope they don't.  Even then, ANet has proven - not a fangirl fact - they have proven that they listen to their fans.  On the other hand, I think Bioware and EA were much more willing to delete or ignore criticisms (going by their official forums).

EDIT: I also have to add that this (meaning MMORPG.com forums) is not "the majority" of any fanbase, I've been to GW2Guru and they, believe it or not, have a much higher rate of complaints per day than this site could hope to, and they are considered the core of the fanbase.  ANet is getting a lot of feedback to the game, and sometimes negativity is required, but not always, and not in some forms

I totally agree with what both of you have said.

 

I'm not going to hide the fact that I do strongly believe GW2 is amazing, revolutionary, and is a needed change to the mmo market.  I'm probably one of the people who get misunderstood as uninformed and unreasonable when it comes to most of the troll complaints on this forum.  But I will admit when I see a reasonable argument I listen and reason on that said argument.   That being said the majority of complaints that are seen here are not reasonable and are more emotional individual reactions instead of reasonable logical complaints.

Most complaints are "what if" complaints and not based on facts at all.  The what if I step outside and a bus falls on my head, IT COULD HAPPEN!!! type of bull crap arguments are way to over used on MMORPG.

The majority of cash shop complaints are just absurd, asinine, and simply childish complaints.  It has been quite a long time since I've seen a valid complaint about GW2 that didn't have a logical reason as to why it was a problem and that it was fixed.

 

Hypothetical complaining is just in simple dictionary terms RETARDED!! we can worry about what ifs all day long but it gets us no where other then paranoid without reason.

 

I've played true P2W games and cash shop dependant games(Allods, Runes of Magic, Aika, FlyFF Etc etc etc.) So when I see absurd claim GW2 is even remotely similar to what P2W and cash shop dependant really means, frankly it pisses me off.   What even makes it worse for me is when people twist the term and stretch it out of context to mean what ever the hell they personally want it to mean and not what the typical gaming community expects. And they do this just to push their own hatred towards something like the cash shop.  Just ludacris.

When I see ignorant statements about the game which is still in beta and still be optimized such as "graphics are dated" or "movement seems bad and clunky"...  credability of these types of statements just goes down the poop shoot.  NOT because I'm a Anet worshiping lemming but because I've played games that deserve those statements and know the difference.

On top of all of this is when TROLLS post "prove to me that chests are not pay 2 win" and are given logical reasonable answers that prove it is not pay 2 win they continue to further troll the topic and disregard the evidence...

Or childish absurd statements of not wanting to play a game because people are excited about the game... SERIOUSLY!! You wont be missed.. at all..  Hell if I'm heading to Disneyland for the first time ever I'm going to be excited and I don't want some little brat sittting there saying "calm down or I don't want to go"

 

I'm the type of gamer who can tell from previews and beta testing and reviewing other beta test videos if the game is going to be what I expect it to be.  I truly spend a lot of time looking for the accurate bad reviews, bad complaints, and what ever else negative but accurately and reasonably negative aspects of a game.  ONLY when I've exhausted my research avenues do I allow my self to start getting excited about a game.  - I don't often get excited about a game. 

Because of how I research games I realised Swotor was a waste of my time, same with Tera, I also waited 5 months after RIFT release because I knew it didn't quite have enough for me.  Because I waited long enough after the RIFT release I saved myself some horrible gaming experiences and actually ahd a great time for quite a few months.   I've been doing the same research on games for many many years and it has not failed me yet.

 

That all being said, I have finally allowed myself to become a drooling fan boy of GW2.  I have extremely high expectation of the game and I will recommend it to anyone and everyone including people who truly hate the word cash shop!!! why because the cash shop will not influence the game in a negative way vs those who choose to not use it PERIOD!!! The day it does is the day I'll back those boycotting the game but currently it doesn't.

 

I welcome the negative feedback and reviews if they are accurate and reasonable within context.  But you are for to late from stopping me from getting extremely excited about Guild Wars 2!!!

+ 20 cookies my good sir.

i honestly dont reasearch as much as you do, but i let that fact temper any disappointment that i may get by being wrong about a game. (or maybe im just an optimist).

anyway youve done everything and more than any post i could have made would have added to this thread. in my opinion a truly great post......

that having been said, im wondering whether or not this post will just be ignored or fought with faulty logic. but thats probably me just being cynical (thats what mmorpg's GW2 forums do to people.... they drain your soul...).

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/345774

Originally posted by k-damage

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/345774

 

now THAT is most interesting. I've heard of companies using dirty pr tactics to sway people away from other products but this brings it to a whole new level. 

Fascinating, and it actually makes business sense which is scary because it becomes probable at that point. Why spend money on advertisement when you can simply sway public opinion. A certain news channel uses that tactic right now and that's the reason they have such huge popularity on TV even tho they and their viewers are consistantly out of the loop. They tell people as well, don't trust anyone else trust only us because we have all the answers and it seems to work on most of the country.

I think there's certainly enough validly upset/disgruntled/amused/whatever people genuinely posting here, but also that there's a possibility of the marketing referred to up-link. On 4chan /vg/ (I know), someone with a registered name admitted to being a viral marketer for EA and that some of what they did consisted of thread-crapping including bashing GW2. But what is also interesting, and what I find easy to believe, is that he pointed out people generally took what little he posted and ran with it, indicating that most of this stuff is fan vs. fan and not a funded effort, although there may be a couple of paid instigators.

Originally posted by sidhaethe

On 4chan /vg/ (I know), someone with a registered name admitted to being a viral marketer for EA and that some of what they did consisted of thread-crapping including bashing GW2. 

Now that's interesting ... Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by k-damage

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/345774

 

So, NC-Soft have really strong Online Reputation Management (ORM). ;)

Originally posted by Luxthor

Originally posted by k-damage

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/345774

 

 

So, NC-Soft have really strong Online Reputation Management (ORM). ;)

I think it's really hard to come to this conclusion, most GW2 real praisers I saw were constructive, and backing up their praise with already exposed features, instead of just praising for the sake of praising.

Majority are : "Look at this feature they explained in their blog/vid, it's looking great"

Instead of : "Hey this game is gonna be AWESOME, don't you think ?" without any concise blog reference, vid.