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Guild Wars 2 Forum » General Discussion » ArenaNet aren't messing around with NDA breakers

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243 posts found
  User Deleted
3/24/12 12:50:05 AM#161


Originally posted by ariboersma


Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 



Originally posted by HTdebuglach




Originally posted by ariboersma





Originally posted by Dreadblade






Originally posted by ariboersma

@wall of quoted text talking about paying for betas... thats been out for a long while. I paid to get into WoW open beta.. as in VANILLA WoW. Same goes for Aion, Rift(in a way), Tera, AoC and many more. It is how things work now. There are early betas and betas that are bigger.. the bigger ones usually you get in if you prepay. Also lets not confuse big name games with F2P "beta" that is really as far as the game ever gets in the western market.





Humm I played WoW, is being VANILLA a way of trying to say I have been playing MMOs awhile because I beta tested EQ and never paid a dime, nor Vanguard, nor WoW, nor LOTRO need I go on but paying full price to get in all the betas is ok with you, man I just do not get you people, they are ripping you off!





you act like the only way to get into a beta is by paying.. of course that isnt true.. just like it isnt true for GW2. You can get lucky... or you can pay and get a guaranteed spot. Same as it has been since at least WoW.




You never ever had to pay full price to get a guaranteed spot in beta, pre order was all that was needed, what part of what he said do you not get?



 
In his defense, he did acknowledge it was TL;DR


I did not say that. I just didnt quote it. My point is that you have had to pay something for guaranteed access to beta for a very long time why does it matter to you know. If you want to play the game so badly then why would the beta change your mind? 

oops, misunderstood....Sorry

But my initial point was that these are not true betas. They are more used as tools for marketing publicity and hype.

  Dreadblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/08
Posts: 398

3/24/12 12:51:02 AM#162
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
 

you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.

My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................

  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

3/24/12 12:52:25 AM#163
Originally posted by HTdebuglach
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 


Originally posted by HTdebuglach


Originally posted by ariboersma


Originally posted by Dreadblade



Originally posted by ariboersma

@wall of quoted text talking about paying for betas... thats been out for a long while. I paid to get into WoW open beta.. as in VANILLA WoW. Same goes for Aion, Rift(in a way), Tera, AoC and many more. It is how things work now. There are early betas and betas that are bigger.. the bigger ones usually you get in if you prepay. Also lets not confuse big name games with F2P "beta" that is really as far as the game ever gets in the western market.


Humm I played WoW, is being VANILLA a way of trying to say I have been playing MMOs awhile because I beta tested EQ and never paid a dime, nor Vanguard, nor WoW, nor LOTRO need I go on but paying full price to get in all the betas is ok with you, man I just do not get you people, they are ripping you off!


you act like the only way to get into a beta is by paying.. of course that isnt true.. just like it isnt true for GW2. You can get lucky... or you can pay and get a guaranteed spot. Same as it has been since at least WoW.


You never ever had to pay full price to get a guaranteed spot in beta, pre order was all that was needed, what part of what he said do you not get?

 

In his defense, he did acknowledge it was TL;DR

I did not say that. I just didnt quote it. My point is that you have had to pay something for guaranteed access to beta for a very long time why does it matter to you know. If you want to play the game so badly then why would the beta change your mind? 

Changed my mind about SWTOR, so yes I am glad I did not have to pay full cost for a piece of rubbish like that.

I dont know why you still wanted to play it after watching the videos online >.< but yes I see your point.. except that this game is out there too much for any semi intelligent person to not know whether they will enjoy it enough to buy. Remember its like buying another single player game.. you dont ever have to pay more so it isnt the same investment as a sub game. 

Have you ever watched any youtube vids by Woodenpotatoes? It might help.. no game play footage but the guy is very well informed and is able to talk well and def isnt being payed for his opinion. Give it a shot.. then watch gameplay vids by EVERYONE even the baddies. Make up your mind that way if you are so worried about not getting into beta. Also when NDA is lifted again press will have even more vids and even some normal guys.

  User Deleted
3/24/12 12:54:13 AM#164

The fails and trolls will come up with anything.  Its ok though guys cant stop a freight train that is GW2.  6 months from now what excuses will you be "making" up when GW2 easily becomes the 2nd highest populated in the world?

  User Deleted
3/24/12 12:54:21 AM#165


Originally posted by Dreadblade


Originally posted by ariboersma


Originally posted by Dreadblade



Originally posted by ariboersma



Originally posted by Dreadblade



 







you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.


My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................

The overall issue is that we still allow them to call it a beta when it's really not. That task (the real beta) was already done. and mostly you get to preview the finished product.

  Dreadblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/08
Posts: 398

3/24/12 12:55:46 AM#166
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 


Originally posted by ariboersma


Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
 



Originally posted by HTdebuglach




Originally posted by ariboersma





Originally posted by Dreadblade






Originally posted by ariboersma

@wall of quoted text talking about paying for betas... thats been out for a long while. I paid to get into WoW open beta.. as in VANILLA WoW. Same goes for Aion, Rift(in a way), Tera, AoC and many more. It is how things work now. There are early betas and betas that are bigger.. the bigger ones usually you get in if you prepay. Also lets not confuse big name games with F2P "beta" that is really as far as the game ever gets in the western market.





Humm I played WoW, is being VANILLA a way of trying to say I have been playing MMOs awhile because I beta tested EQ and never paid a dime, nor Vanguard, nor WoW, nor LOTRO need I go on but paying full price to get in all the betas is ok with you, man I just do not get you people, they are ripping you off!





you act like the only way to get into a beta is by paying.. of course that isnt true.. just like it isnt true for GW2. You can get lucky... or you can pay and get a guaranteed spot. Same as it has been since at least WoW.




You never ever had to pay full price to get a guaranteed spot in beta, pre order was all that was needed, what part of what he said do you not get?



 
In his defense, he did acknowledge it was TL;DR



I did not say that. I just didnt quote it. My point is that you have had to pay something for guaranteed access to beta for a very long time why does it matter to you know. If you want to play the game so badly then why would the beta change your mind? 

 

oops, misunderstood....Sorry

But my initial point was that these are not true betas. They are more used as tools for marketing publicity and hype.

Exactly, which is why I believe whoever started this HT or whatever his name is had an issue with ANET charging full price to beta test what, the game is done for the most part and they are breaking what was an indusrty standard of little to no upfront cost to get into these. Since it is GW2 doing it I guess it is ok for them to charge full game cost to get into these

  User Deleted
3/24/12 12:56:01 AM#167


Originally posted by Zylaxx
The fails and trolls will come up with anything.  Its ok though guys cant stop a freight train that is GW2.  6 months from now what excuses will you be "making" up when GW2 easily becomes the 2nd highest populated in the world?

Simply wait 3 months for everyone to finish the content, say "That's it?" and then watch GW2 fizzle down into the little Niche game it really is.

  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

3/24/12 12:57:09 AM#168
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
 

you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.

My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................

true but think of it another way. Since this game is B2P think of it like a single player game. What major game has ever had a demo which is sort of how you are putting it. That lasted 3 days, allowed you nearly open access to the game and once release promised you what GW2 is promising and in most points to date has delivered? I do not fault them.. but trust me I see why you guys are upset about it. I just beg of you to think of it another way and do not think of ANET as you would EA. One major difference... ANET had the ba**s to stand up for their game to their publisher and are doing things their way. Bioware.. which saddens me couldn't do this and it would have saved them a lot of heartache.

  Dreadblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/08
Posts: 398

3/24/12 12:57:30 AM#169
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

 


Originally posted by Dreadblade


Originally posted by ariboersma


Originally posted by Dreadblade



Originally posted by ariboersma



Originally posted by Dreadblade



 







you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.


My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................

 

The overall issue is that we still allow them to call it a beta when it's really not. That task (the real beta) was already done. and mostly you get to preview the finished product.

 

Well that is a whole other story, which again I agree with, and still not worth the full cost of a game to do it

  User Deleted
3/24/12 12:59:23 AM#170
Originally posted by Master10K
Originally posted by Malaksbane
Originally posted by KillHurt 
Buying items in the cash shop is not Pay to Win, it is Pay to LOSE, lose real life money on a video game. 

If with a cash shop 1 hour of real-life work, which is quite  fun, nets the gold that would otherwise require 5 hours of  boring grind then I know which option is Win and whiche is Lose.

Have fun wasting your money, whilst I'm playing the game.

If you rather grind for 5 hours, it's your choice ... I'd rather have fun playing and grinding is not fun. There's a difference between playing the game and grinding and you're not going to be able to buy cash-shop items with the loot-drops you get from normal non-grindy fun-playing.

  Dreadblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/08
Posts: 398

3/24/12 1:02:21 AM#171
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
 

you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.

My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................

true but think of it another way. Since this game is B2P think of it like a single player game. What major game has ever had a demo which is sort of how you are putting it. That lasted 3 days, allowed you nearly open access to the game and once release promised you what GW2 is promising and in most points to date has delivered? I do not fault them.. but trust me I see why you guys are upset about it. I just beg of you to think of it another way and do not think of ANET as you would EA. One major difference... ANET had the ba**s to stand up for their game to their publisher and are doing things their way. Bioware.. which saddens me couldn't do this and it would have saved them a lot of heartache.

My trust left after SWTOR I never thought Bioware would do that but they did. So now when I see a publisher knowing that the market is not a bunch of happy campers with the current list of MMOs charges full price to get a guaranteed spot into their beta, yeah everyone of my red flags goes up, think we need to end this debate on this thread as we are sooo out whack with the OP lol

  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

3/24/12 1:07:39 AM#172
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
Originally posted by ariboersma
Originally posted by Dreadblade
 

you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.

My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................

true but think of it another way. Since this game is B2P think of it like a single player game. What major game has ever had a demo which is sort of how you are putting it. That lasted 3 days, allowed you nearly open access to the game and once release promised you what GW2 is promising and in most points to date has delivered? I do not fault them.. but trust me I see why you guys are upset about it. I just beg of you to think of it another way and do not think of ANET as you would EA. One major difference... ANET had the ba**s to stand up for their game to their publisher and are doing things their way. Bioware.. which saddens me couldn't do this and it would have saved them a lot of heartache.

My trust left after SWTOR I never thought Bioware would do that but they did. So now when I see a publisher knowing that the market is not a bunch of happy campers with the current list of MMOs charges full price to get a guaranteed spot into their beta, yeah everyone of my red flags goes up

understandable, but just because EA turned Bioware into moneygrubbing a holes doesn't mean ANET is. It could be as simple as there system not set up for preorders or they just didn't think about it. Basically just do your reseach on ANY game you want. MMO, RPG, CORPG, ect.. you cannot always play before you buy and since you cannot return games.. hell pretty soon you wont even be able to buy used console games! I don't think any person in this thread could not make an educated decision whether they like this game enough to buy from watching vids. 

  User Deleted
3/24/12 1:08:18 AM#173


Originally posted by Dreadblade


Originally posted by ariboersma


Originally posted by Dreadblade



Originally posted by ariboersma



Originally posted by Dreadblade



Originally posted by ariboersma



Originally posted by Dreadblade



 







you highlighted it and you still do not see. and I meant THIS beta not a beta in the red bit. I said that I DID pay.. and I will agree that my point isnt clear in that first post but since you keep quoting me I think you know my point by now. Paying is a way to get into a beta FOR SURE. No you do not HAVE to pay to get in, you can get lucky. But! As long as I have been playing MMO's from beta the only way to get guaranteed access is to pay, be it 5, 25, 60, 250.. w/e some money means you get in no matter what.


My whole point here is no game has charged full price for a spot in beta and yes I do have an issue with that, and as long as we allow companys to get away with this then we are not doing our job as customers. If you think that it is ok for a company to charge full price to get into beta I honestly do not know what to say......................


true but think of it another way. Since this game is B2P think of it like a single player game. What major game has ever had a demo which is sort of how you are putting it. That lasted 3 days, allowed you nearly open access to the game and once release promised you what GW2 is promising and in most points to date has delivered? I do not fault them.. but trust me I see why you guys are upset about it. I just beg of you to think of it another way and do not think of ANET as you would EA. One major difference... ANET had the ba**s to stand up for their game to their publisher and are doing things their way. Bioware.. which saddens me couldn't do this and it would have saved them a lot of heartache.


My trust left after SWTOR I never thought Bioware would do that but they did. So now when I see a publisher knowing that the market is not a bunch of happy campers with the current list of MMOs charges full price to get a guaranteed spot into their beta, yeah everyone of my red flags goes up


I deleted my post since I went WAYYYY off topic.

  Dreadblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/08
Posts: 398

3/24/12 1:08:57 AM#174

see my edit lol

  ariboersma

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 1817

3/24/12 1:19:58 AM#175

agreed! all done :)

  User Deleted
3/24/12 1:24:09 AM#176

Kighty knight...

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1772

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

3/24/12 1:54:05 AM#177

I hope they use that hammer on gold sellers too. Oh nevermind, they are the gold sellers...I forgot.

  iller

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 492

3/24/12 5:44:02 AM#178

This is nothing new.  No point in treating it lke it IS news just b/c some studios out there don't actually bring people into betas to ....ya know...  TEST STUFF.  (b/c they're doing free trials to get promotion instead).  

Guildwars has this thing called a Test Krewe and it's under an NDA.  They've always been under NDA and they always WILL be under NDA b/c they're usually testing Experimental and sometimes contraverisal stuff.  A lot of the things people are bitching about in the current cash shop were tested at one point in GW1 by the Test Krewe and we had no "Gems" for getting that that stuff through trading.  Testng took the rough edges off and NDA'ing the testing helped avoid all this "The sky is falling" jibber jabber which is almost never accurate to what actually happens when that stuff is finally released.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 14380

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/24/12 5:48:40 AM#179
Originally posted by expresso

Why is there an NDA?  I dont get it? Theres no NDA for Mists of Pandaria, I am looking forward to GW2 but what could they be hiding?

Because players in general have a tendancy to go over the deep end, not to mention many do not understand this is testing. There will be issues, you're there to find them and it's great if you do find them (never bad), super even. As long as you know how to properly test of course. THose who don't run to the forum and write thinngs like "fail"...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Gamayun

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 73

3/24/12 7:42:30 AM#180

 

LOL, guarding GW2 secrets with a hammer. 
 
But just a hammer? Not even a spirit weapon? What kind of guardian is that? 
/I is disappoint. :P
 
Here, double smiting:
 
 
 
 
At any rate, it's understandable why any game company would want to have a NDA, it's not necessarily a malicious intent to hide some fatal flaw that will send costumers in rage after purchase. 
 
But MMORPG players have been burned so many times that it's not surprising to assume the worst and suspect foul play. 
 
That's why I can't really berate the tester(s) who leaked the information, even if I don't condone it. Maybe it was an attempt to blacken ArenaNet, but I'm guessing it was more likely leaked by a fan who percieved that ArenaNet betrayed its words and players, and believed other fans had to know about it.
 
 
Speaking in general about what we already know from official sources, not from the leak, and developping from there:
Hypotethically, if the boost multipliers in GW2 were capped like the experience boost multipliers in GW, an approximation could be made about what is achievable through money/gems and what through other boosts found in the game, and what is the total sum of all boosts of one type. 
It would be one way to put the influence of CS boosts/convenience items into perspective. 
 
 
I think a balance can be achieved (cap of maximum possible bonus at any certain time, downtime for use of convenience items, item price, frequency/approchability of item sources (NPCs, guild bonuses etc.) in the game itself,...). 
However, I do understand that most are worried that conveniece items are a precedent for what could in theory come later on (PtW/inability to play normally without using the store/pressure from the community to use items from the CS). 
In that sense I agree that it's better to speak up sooner rather than later. 
Once they offer more than just cosmetic items and account services in the shop, there's the risk that some of it will be abused.
The safest way would be to sell no stats and no gameplay boosts at all. 
But if I remember correctly, back in the day some players were even arguing that selling characters slots is bad because it offers specific gameplay advantages, so what do I know.
IMO many players are in part escapists and don't want their virtual experience "tainted" by the financial inequality IRL; MMORPGs are a separate reality where player skill (or in some cases time investment) should be the determining factor. At least that's what I've noticed. 
 
If the advantage of convenience items is overall negligible and comparable to the advantages of items and bonuses ingame, it shouldn't affect players much. 
But first the time/effect ratio for each bonus has to be calculated into two currencies (money and gold). It has to be determinend which items/bonuses (or which quantity) are crucial for the gameplay/community/economy and therefore can't be sold for real money. 
Since this has to be determined by the developers as well as the community, I think it will need a more extensive testing before release and probably several tweaks after the release, as the game will age and some players will become more crafty at exploiting the system. So ArenaNet probably would have to constantly monitor the evolution of the market.
 
In theory I like the idea of gems (it looks like players who buy with money and those who buy with gold only will have more choice), so I hope ArenaNet can pull it off successfully both for the players and the company. 
My ultimate gripe with the game still remains the visual side of the death penalty. 
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