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Originally posted by tepthtanis

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Originally posted by Meowhead

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Originally posted by tepthtanis

 I'm guessing that u are a "Johnny come lately" Meowhead.
I already explained that I could look like a hobo(i.e...I don't care what I look like)...I don't need anymore character slots unless GW2 is as insanely easy as Rift. And I never hoard anything!(On mmorpgs anyway.)
And as I've always said. I would rather pay the 15$ a month than have some "funky" cash shop.

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So there's nothing you actually WANT from the cash shop, you just want to pay an extra 15 dollars a month for no reason at all?
It's not so much I'm a Johnny come lately, but that I fail to see the logic in what you're saying.  You haven't explained a good reason for why everybody should be paying an extra 15 dollars a month other than 'Because it makes Tepthtanis happy'
You'll have to excuse me if I don't want to pay extra money to make YOU happy.  D:
You could just write a check for 15 dollars and mail it to Arenanet every month, and pretend you're paying a sub.  That sounds fair to me?
... and nobody wants a 'funky' cash shop.  GW2 fans are some of the first people to yell at even the scent of P2W style cash shop.  Not all cash shops are created equal.

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 Good point(s) Meowhead. I have several questions for you though... If you answer them all to my satisfaction I will give you a ciberbow...Not much of a reward, I confess, but it is all I can offer right now.
1st Q! Why wouldn't Arenanet charge subsribers 15$ a month?
Why have a cash shop instead of 15$ a month gaurunteed money from every GW2 fan?
What do u want from the GW2 giftshop?
What do u think "I" would want from a Mmorpg gift shop?
What is in an mmorpg gift shop that I couldn't find in the game?
If you were me, what would I buy for u in a mmorpg gift shop?
Anything you buy for me and I buy for you...could we possibly wear out in public?
I thought this was a "vanity" gift shop which has no value in the game except for looks...lol! :)

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I'm not Meowhead, but, read this: http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php

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Jeff Strain, one of the co-founders of ArenaNet

Don't count on subscriptions

In the early years of the MMO industry, from roughly 1997 to 2001, there were a few big MMOs that had active player populations. By the time we started ArenaNet in the summer of 2000, we knew of at least eighty MMOs that were in development. Based on the success of UO and EQ, publishers were reviewing their portfolios and planning to migrate their existing game franchises to the online world, where they believed they could adopt a subscription model and "make bank". Clearly, it did not work out that way. As more MMOs came into the market, two things changed. First, players now had a choice about which game they would play, and as a result their expectations for polish, content quantity, and service increased substantially. Second, and perhaps more telling for the future of the industry, it became clear that the subscription model forced players to choose a single game, rather than playing many different games.

Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it. Gamers may buy the argument that your MMO requires a subscription fee, if you can tell them what they are getting for their money.

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After that, in GW, you can buy extra character slots, unlock packs for PvP, assuming you don't want to play the PvE content to get the same things (you can't get anything in the store that you can't get through gameplay, and you cannot use what you buy in the store anywhere but PvP). You can get fun outfits (usually costumes or such). You can't get anything that would make you more powerful than anyone else, nor anything that will expedite your progress beyond normal (not that you need to, as there is no grind to level).

*I* want extra slots and such, and I like the cool outfits. These are things you buy to support actual continued development work. If the game is so much fun you need more character slots, the company deserves money. If you enjoy the game so much you want to deck your character out in fun garb for whatever reason, the company deserves your money. When the company makes an expansion pack with new content, the company deserves money.

The company does NOT deserve money for the sheer privilege of allowing you to play the game you've already paid for.

I have no idea whatever what the last few lines are supposed to mean.

tepthanis: Of course I understand that you don't want to be part of an MMO that is pay-to-win, but I'm convinced that that is not the case here with Guild Wars 2. I just don't get you. Maybe you could try looking at GW2 like six months after release and see if it has fulfilled the terrible prophecy you're talking about. Or maybe not, you should play games that you like.

Originally posted by tepthtanis

1st Q! Why wouldn't Arenanet charge subsribers 15$ a month?

Why have a cash shop instead of 15$ a month gaurunteed money from every GW2 fan?

How about I only answer these two questions...

When people ask your second question, I think they're thinking that the number of subscribers is going to be the same whether the game is P2P or B2P.  If that were the case, then the company would certainly maximize profits by offering a sub, but it's not.  B2P will certainly have a higher number of sales, and the players will be playing for much longer.  When you put out a P2P subscription game, you force your players to choose whether they want to continue subbing or not every month.  A lot of people won't pay two subscriptions at the same time, so any company with a P2P game has to fight some other P2P MMO for every subscription.  A lot of people here say they'll pick up GW2 as a side game to their sub game.  That's a sale that might not happen if it was P2P.

With a B2P game, people can stop playing and then come back and buy the expansion because they know that they don't need to resub to buy it.  With a P2P game, once a player has moved on, they might be less likely to come back for the expansion.  Or if they do, maybe they only play for a month before unsubscribing again.  If a P2P player never gets past their free trial month, the game is might as well have been B2P for all the revenue it brought in from that person.

Being B2P means you can give the game as a gift without forcing someone to take up a subscription.  I'm planning on buying at least two extra copies as gifts.  Parents can buy a copy for their kids without worrying about whether they've got to budget for the rest of the year.

It also buys a lot of brand loyalty.  I've bought the two GW2 novels that have come out and I'll buy the third.  I'd never do that for WoW if I'm paying a sub.  So ArenaNet has already gotten 2 months "subscription" from me, and the game isn't even out yet.

Don't worry about the cash shop, it's all vanity.  Don't worry about ArenaNet's profits, I'm sure they'll be fine.

Originally posted by tepthtanis

What do u want from the GW2 giftshop?

What do u think "I" would want from a Mmorpg gift shop?

What is in an mmorpg gift shop that I couldn't find in the game?

If you were me, what would I buy for u in a mmorpg gift shop?

Anything you buy for me and I buy for you...could we possibly wear out in public?

I thought this was a "vanity" gift shop which has no value in the game except for looks...lol! :)

People answered your questions so I don't really have to (Though any halfway aware GW2 fan can answer questions about the cash shop, so I'm not surprised other people answered)

What I'm confused about is this part where you start talking about a gift shop, and buying presents for each other.  I get this weird feeling, like you're trying to be clever and prove a point somehow, but all you're doing is making me wonder why in the world you're going off on a tangent that really doesn't have anything to do with GW2.

Especially your last sentence.  That has 'Haha, I proved my point' written all over it, but the sentence doesn't even make sense in context with your previous sentences, so I'm not sure where you were going with that.  Care to elucidate me?

I advocate against the idiocy that some people blantantly post on here. To sum things up for the people that ask about the GW2 method, it's simple. It's not the initial game buy that creates the massive amount of cash, it is the cash shop. Oh no I just went there. They didn't demographically just attract for US Players, they went for the gold in Asia. They buy more fluff and stuff over there, and it just so happens that the more fluff you offer them, the more fluff they buy. Hands down, this game was thought on a pyschologically addictive multi-level based on demogarphics.

Asia spends money on pay 2 win and fluff cash shops more than any other country. with GW2 don't expect revolutionary stuff, just expect a higher level of entertainment. You act like GW2 is your messiah and will just save the game industry. You can't save the American or European markets for mmorpgs. You can't save them because you can't make a game to satisfy their god-like expectations and their greed. They want want want and in return wish for nothing but to just troll the forums until their cyber genitals become swollen, and their ego spits flaming snots of doom at anyone who goes against their belittled mind.

P.S. I live in America, but I don't follow the same dogmatic mindset most gamers have.

^

Asia is not a coutry btw, it is a continent of course it will have a larger market to buy in cash shops than any other country-.-

Originally posted by redpins

I advocate against the idiocy that some people blantantly post on here. To sum things up for the people that ask about the GW2 method, it's simple. It's not the initial game buy that creates the massive amount of cash, it is the cash shop. Oh no I just went there. They didn't demographically just attract for US Players, they went for the gold in Asia. They buy more fluff and stuff over there, and it just so happens that the more fluff you offer them, the more fluff they buy. Hands down, this game was thought on a pyschologically addictive multi-level based on demogarphics.

Asia spends money on pay 2 win and fluff cash shops more than any other country. with GW2 don't expect revolutionary stuff, just expect a higher level of entertainment. You act like GW2 is your messiah and will just save the game industry. You can't save the American or European markets for mmorpgs. You can't save them because you can't make a game to satisfy their god-like expectations and their greed. They want want want and in return wish for nothing but to just troll the forums until their cyber genitals become swollen, and their ego spits flaming snots of doom at anyone who goes against their belittled mind.

P.S. I live in America, but I don't follow the same dogmatic mindset most gamers have.

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

I don't even get what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that GW2 isn't an MMORPG and if it was we wouldn't be arguing about it...? what is this I don't even

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

Sure we would be. As long as there are people who are proud of being lazy and deliberately ignorant, there is going to be misinformation. And, as long as there is misinformation, there is going to be debate, discussion, and arguing over those misunderstandings.

Wow, what kind of statement was that? You could justify the presence or absence of anything with that sophomoric logic.

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

Really? Do you honestly believe what you just wrote? Because that is news to me, that means there should not be any arguing about TOR, Archage, TSW, or TERA. Well guess your theory fell apart since those forums are full of people arguing.  So Anet is producing a full in your face MMO just like the rest, people just like arguing because they are too lazy to do the research to learn about the game, and they come to forums with a half cocked idea about the game design.

 You have to remember SlapHappy. That Arenanet has Gw under their fold. They are trying to improve on GW unless I'm mistaken. If you are looking for improvement with TOR,Archage,TSW or TERA...Go find them...U have my permission.

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

  Wow  that just blew my mind.   When in doubt spout stuff that doesn't make sence.  You didn't really open a can of worms, you basically showed others that there is no arguing with the ignorant. Good day sir.

Originally posted by tepthtanis

 You have to remember SlapHappy. That Arenanet has Gw under their fold. They are trying to improve on GW unless I'm mistaken. If you are looking for improvement with TOR,Archage,TSW or TERA...Go find them...U have my permission.

TOR is trying to improve on KOTOR, Archeage is trying to improve on Lineage, TERA is trying to improve on Lineage 2, and TSW is trying to improve on Funcom's unfortunate track record with MMORPGs.

GW2 is an MMORPG.  If you're trying to claim otherwise, it just makes you look like you don't know anything about it, and it's kind of embarrassing for everybody involved... you for seeming really uninformed, and people having to respond to you because we feel bad having to correct such elementary, easily solved misunderstandings.

I like how you shifted away from your attack on 'gift shops lolol' to now claiming that GW2 isn't even an MMORPG.  Is there some point to this, or is it just more fun to post about games you know nothing about?  :(

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

Really? Do you honestly believe what you just wrote? Because that is news to me, that means there should not be any arguing about TOR, Archage, TSW, or TERA. Well guess your theory fell apart since those forums are full of people arguing.  So Anet is producing a full in your face MMO just like the rest, people just like arguing because they are too lazy to do the research to learn about the game, and they come to forums with a half cocked idea about the game design.

 You have to remember SlapHappy. That Arenanet has Gw under their fold. They are trying to improve on GW unless I'm mistaken. If you are looking for improvement with TOR,Archage,TSW or TERA...Go find them...U have my permission.

This is the second time this week that I see another person complaining about GW2 without knowing enough(or anything) about it. So first things first, GW2 is not only improving on GW. Its a full fledge MMORPG that takes the spirit and lore of GW.

Now, as far as your existential problems with the cash shop...That, as everyone else has pointed out, is just superficial and they are giving people who like to change or enhance their looks more options among other things, nothing in the cash shop will affect the gameplay IN ANY WAY. Like many other's say, paying 15 dollars blindly for an MMO is way more of a steal from your pocket than an optional cash shop.

They have already stated their theory consist on putting out enough good content that the consumers will want to pay for it. That's why they go B2P and put out expansions around every 6 months. If you believe that you want that expansion because it's worth your money then you buy it. That will keep ANET grounded on putting out exceptional content because they are not counting with 15 bucks every month, they have to convince you that their game is worth your money.

Originally posted by tepthtanis

 Your pic says it all... a beast that walks in it's own sh@t... back to reality...

If Arenanet wants to save face they should implement a 15$ monthly fee instead  of  giving investors the "Shearly Temple" treatment...  

You do realize that one of the biggest MMO companies in the world, NCSoft, is investing in Arenanet and the B2P plan for GW2, right?  The same company that runs Aion, which is basically the second most profitably P2P MMO around? (It has over 3 million subscribers).

I'm just going to go out on a limb here, and say that they understand more about economics than you do.

It's like you've never heard of the concept of underselling the competition, or making up a price drop with volume.  Look, you don't like B2P.  We all understand that.

Don't pretend that makes you some investing wizard though, with a perfect understanding of the MMORPG market.

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

  Wow  that just blew my mind.   When in doubt spout stuff that doesn't make sence.  You didn't really open a can of worms, you basically showed others that there is no arguing with the ignorant. Good day sir.

 Your pic says it all... a beast that walks in it's own sh@t... back to reality...

If Arenanet wants to save face they should implement a 15$ monthly fee instead  of  giving investors the "Shearly Temple" treatment...  

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by tepthtanis

 You have to remember SlapHappy. That Arenanet has Gw under their fold. They are trying to improve on GW unless I'm mistaken. If you are looking for improvement with TOR,Archage,TSW or TERA...Go find them...U have my permission.

TOR is trying to improve on KOTOR, Archeage is trying to improve on Lineage, TERA is trying to improve on Lineage 2, and TSW is trying to improve on Funcom's unfortunate track record with MMORPGs.

GW2 is an MMORPG.  If you're trying to claim otherwise, it just makes you look like you don't know anything about it, and it's kind of embarrassing for everybody involved... you for seeming really uninformed, and people having to respond to you because we feel bad having to correct such elementary, easily solved misunderstandings.

I like how you shifted away from your attack on 'gift shops lolol' to now claiming that GW2 isn't even an MMORPG.  Is there some point to this, or is it just more fun to post about games you know nothing about?  :(

 I'm for GW2 Meowhead! What's your point?

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by tepthtanis

Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...

If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

Really? Do you honestly believe what you just wrote? Because that is news to me, that means there should not be any arguing about TOR, Archage, TSW, or TERA. Well guess your theory fell apart since those forums are full of people arguing.  So Anet is producing a full in your face MMO just like the rest, people just like arguing because they are too lazy to do the research to learn about the game, and they come to forums with a half cocked idea about the game design.

 You have to remember SlapHappy. That Arenanet has Gw under their fold. They are trying to improve on GW unless I'm mistaken. If you are looking for improvement with TOR,Archage,TSW or TERA...Go find them...U have my permission.

This is the second time this week that I see another person complaining about GW2 without knowing enough(or anything) about it. So first things first, GW2 is not only improving on GW. Its a full fledge MMORPG that takes the spirit and lore of GW.

Now, as far as your existential problems with the cash shop...That, as everyone else has pointed out, is just superficial and they are giving people who like to change or enhance their looks more options among other things, nothing in the cash shop will affect the gameplay IN ANY WAY. Like many other's say, paying 15 dollars blindly for an MMO is way more of a steal from your pocket than an optional cash shop.

They have already stated their theory consist on putting out enough good content that the consumers will want to pay for it. That's why they go B2P and put out expansions around every 6 months. If you believe that you want that expansion because it's worth your money then you buy it. That will keep ANET grounded on putting out exceptional content because they are not counting with 15 bucks every month, they have to convince you that their game is worth your money.

 Alrighty then Kuppa... Arenanet is accepting my "60$" as the final amount I'm going to give them. They will never ask for anything more...ever!?

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Originally posted by tepthtanis

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Originally posted by Kuppa

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Originally posted by tepthtanis

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Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

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Originally posted by tepthtanis
Sorry I opened up "a can of worms!" But...
If Arenanet was actually fully involvled in producing an allout...In your face! MMORPG!  Then we wouldn't be arguing about it right now...would we?

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Really? Do you honestly believe what you just wrote? Because that is news to me, that means there should not be any arguing about TOR, Archage, TSW, or TERA. Well guess your theory fell apart since those forums are full of people arguing.  So Anet is producing a full in your face MMO just like the rest, people just like arguing because they are too lazy to do the research to learn about the game, and they come to forums with a half cocked idea about the game design.

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 You have to remember SlapHappy. That Arenanet has Gw under their fold. They are trying to improve on GW unless I'm mistaken. If you are looking for improvement with TOR,Archage,TSW or TERA...Go find them...U have my permission.

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This is the second time this week that I see another person complaining about GW2 without knowing enough(or anything) about it. So first things first, GW2 is not only improving on GW. Its a full fledge MMORPG that takes the spirit and lore of GW.
Now, as far as your existential problems with the cash shop...That, as everyone else has pointed out, is just superficial and they are giving people who like to change or enhance their looks more options among other things, nothing in the cash shop will affect the gameplay IN ANY WAY. Like many other's say, paying 15 dollars blindly for an MMO is way more of a steal from your pocket than an optional cash shop.
They have already stated their theory consist on putting out enough good content that the consumers will want to pay for it. That's why they go B2P and put out expansions around every 6 months. If you believe that you want that expansion because it's worth your money then you buy it. That will keep ANET grounded on putting out exceptional content because they are not counting with 15 bucks every month, they have to convince you that their game is worth your money.

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 Alrighty then Kuppa... Arenanet is accepting my "60$" as the final amount I'm going to give them. They will never ask for anything more...ever!?

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Sure they'll ask but they'll never demand. There won't be anything that crops up during normal game play that will hinder you unless you spend. This isn't a F2P title with in built frustrations that require a cash shop to proceed or compete. With GW2 you buy a fully fledged MMO with no cash shop hindrances and no sub, they'll make their money from DLC, Expansions, fluff and unit sales. Sorry if you don't like that but that's just the way it is :) (The lesser evil of any monetization option if you ask me).

Can we get back on topic now?