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MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 08/28/12)  | Pub:NCSoft
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:$49.99 | Pay Type:Free | Monthly Fee:n/a
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61 posts found
  XilentStorm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/11/10
Posts: 211

Games are epic.

 
OP  7/09/11 9:56:22 PM#41

I never got interested in PvP due to the unbalancing in games like Runes of Magic, but what about PvE players? No place for them? Or do we get the best of both worlds.

Veteran MMORPG Player -

ROM
EVE
RS (pre-EOC)- Habbo
Combat Arms - Crossfire -AVA
Maplestory, and more.

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

7/09/11 11:03:12 PM#42

How can anyone say that GW2 is anything but pure themepark? It's about as themepark as a game can get, but in the best way possible.

It's themepark the way themepark is supposed to be done.

How many real themeparks have a guy standing right at the entrance telling you which ride to go on first, restricting your access to any other rides? There aren't quest-givers in GW2. When you enter each park (each zone), you can run off in any direction you like and visit any of the attractions (dynamic events) in whichever order you like. Watch the videos of starter human gameplay, running around the farmlands. "Oh hey, that ride looks like fun," is like, "Oh hey, bandits are attacking. This'll be fun."

Being non-linear doesn't make GW2 any less themepark.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16610

7/09/11 11:07:17 PM#43
Originally posted by assault3hro

I never got interested in PvP due to the unbalancing in games like Runes of Magic, but what about PvE players? No place for them? Or do we get the best of both worlds.

GW2 have plenty of PvE and you can avoid all PvP if you so wishes.

GW1 is BTW more or less the only balanced MMO PvP wise so it might be worth to try the PvP as well again, it will be very different to RoM.

  Celcius

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

7/09/11 11:07:48 PM#44

I would say it is not a sandbox but not quite a pure themepark game since you can affect whats going on around you. Realistically though after time goes on you will see most of the events and it won't seem very dynamic at all unless they keep adding new ones. I hope they do to keep it fresh, which I am sure they will. I just don't think the dynamic content system alone can make it a sandbox game though. To me a sandbox game is when you truly have control over everything, not a predetermined path. (which events are essentially that except you sorta choose the path) 

It certainly travels off the beaten path though. I would say they are trying to innovate on the themepark formula by making it more dynamic and less "grindy" through interesting gameplay elements and dynamic events. 

  XilentStorm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/11/10
Posts: 211

Games are epic.

 
OP  7/09/11 11:11:55 PM#45

Less grind, less burden, more of an actual game! There are very few f**k*ng MMORPG's that are actually enjoyable throughout the majority of it.

Veteran MMORPG Player -

ROM
EVE
RS (pre-EOC)- Habbo
Combat Arms - Crossfire -AVA
Maplestory, and more.

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

7/09/11 11:13:36 PM#46


Originally posted by assault3hro
I never got interested in PvP due to the unbalancing in games like Runes of Magic, but what about PvE players? No place for them? Or do we get the best of both worlds.

The bulk of the game seems to be PvE, or at least PvE is the only thing they've shown us so far. The PvE things they've shown us so far are the story mode ("Personal story"), dynamic events, and dungeons. They've briefly discussed some of the PvP, which is structured PvP (arena-like) and World vs World vs World. WvWvW is somewhat of a hybrid of PvP and PvE. From the little they've told us, it seems similar to WAR's open world PvP.

It looks like giving players the best of both worlds is definitely one of their goals.

Oh yeah, and read this thread: Everything We Know about GW2.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

7/09/11 11:22:36 PM#47


Originally posted by Loke666
GW1 is BTW more or less the only balanced MMO PvP wise so it might be worth to try the PvP as well again, it will be very different to RoM.

Calling GW PvP balanced is going to depend on your definition of "balanced" as much as calling GW an MMO is going to depend on your definition of "an MMO".

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16610

7/09/11 11:29:18 PM#48
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

The bulk of the game seems to be PvE, or at least PvE is the only thing they've shown us so far. The PvE things they've shown us so far are the story mode ("Personal story"), dynamic events, and dungeons. They've briefly discussed some of the PvP, which is structured PvP (arena-like) and World vs World vs World. WvWvW is somewhat of a hybrid of PvP and PvE. From the little they've told us, it seems similar to WAR's open world PvP.

It looks like giving players the best of both worlds is definitely one of their goals.

Oh yeah, and read this thread: Everything We Know about GW2.

Calling GW PvP balanced is going to depend on your definition of "balanced" as much as calling GW an MMO is going to depend on your definition of "an MMO".

That is because they only shows the stuff that is already implemented and in the game. PvP tends to be the last thing you complete.

Feel free to mention a online game with better balance, it is still far from perfect but it is the best there. Mostly because gear is balanced as well as the classes.

And yes, it is a CORPG but that doesn't really affect balance so I left that long discussion out.

  Celcius

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

7/09/11 11:43:05 PM#49

Sadly you are probably right. I have absolutely no idea how the development process works for a huge game like this, but I have a feeling the PvE stuff takes way more time to develop. I mean, it is the base of the game. The hardest part about developing PvP is more about balance then anything else. I think once you have balance to "the point you want it to be" (since you can't have a truly balanced game really) then pvp systems can start getting put in. PvP systems are usually not very complex in nature and pretty open ended. Infact, the less complicated the better. As long as the developer can tweak the numbers once they get the system in it should not be difficult to make it better. 

Makes you kinda wonder why most (all cept like 2?) MMOs that have come out since as far back as DAOC had virtually no Open World PvP system. All it really takes is a carrot on a stick to lure people out there. 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16610

7/09/11 11:50:37 PM#50
Originally posted by Celcius

Sadly you are probably right. I have absolutely no idea how the development process works for a huge game like this, but I have a feeling the PvE stuff takes way more time to develop. I mean, it is the base of the game. The hardest part about developing PvP is more about balance then anything else. I think once you have balance to "the point you want it to be" (since you can't have a truly balanced game really) then pvp systems can start getting put in. PvP systems are usually not very complex in nature and pretty open ended. Infact, the less complicated the better. As long as the developer can tweak the numbers once they get the system in it should not be difficult to make it better. 

Makes you kinda wonder why most (all cept like 2?) MMOs that have come out since as far back as DAOC had virtually no Open World PvP system. All it really takes is a carrot on a stick to lure people out there. 

It isn't that easy. Good open world PvP is the hardest thing you can make.

It needs to be fun and entertaining without making you loose 75% of the players due to extensive griefing. 

No MMO have sadly really succeded in that. It is the reason that most FPS players prefer PvP but few MMO players do, FPS just make PvP a lot better than MMOs.

We need a new approach to PvP altogether and frankly are few MMOs particualrly new thinking. My best bet right now is WoDO.

DaoC is still the game with the best World PvP 8 years after release and that is kinda sad.

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

7/10/11 12:00:49 AM#51


Originally posted by Loke666
That is because they only shows the stuff that is already implemented and in the game. PvP tends to be the last thing you complete.

And that is why I said "so far" all over my post.


Originally posted by Loke666
Feel free to mention a online game with better balance, it is still far from perfect but it is the best there. Mostly because gear is balanced as well as the classes.
And yes, it is a CORPG but that doesn't really affect balance so I left that long discussion out.

An online game with better balance? Team Fortress 2. Super Street Fighter 4. I'm sure I could name many, many more if I needed to.

Balance in GW is hard to describe. Balanced in what regard? Are the skills balanced? The classes? The builds?

I'm not saying it's one way or the other, but it's very easy to argue in either direction.

There are hundreds of combinations that are useless. Many skills aren't used. Many class combinations are pointless. In this regard, it isn't balanced. There are too many options.

On the other hand, in high-level play, there a far less options. Once you know all the builds, you only choose from those builds, but those builds are balanced.

One could argue that MvC2 is balanced because the only teams that are used are balanced. It's more common to argue that because so many characters and teams are unused, the game isn't balanced.

Regardless, GW PvP is extremely hard to get into, much the opposite of what ANet is attempting with GW2. I'm not sure if even ANet considers GW1 to be balanced. It certainly isn't balanced to their satisfaction, which is why they are changing so much in GW2. Their new objective is to prevent "bad builds". In TF2, you can take any random loadout and still do well, although some combinations will suit certain players better than others. They're aiming to accomplish something like this in GW2.

EDIT: To add, for the OP, a lot of players consider GW1 to be balanced. A lot of other players and possibly ANet themselves don't. GW2 is supposed to be balanced enough for everyone. It is a very big priority.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  User Deleted
7/10/11 1:47:32 AM#52
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

How can anyone say that GW2 is anything but pure themepark? It's about as themepark as a game can get, but in the best way possible.

It's themepark the way themepark is supposed to be done.

How many real themeparks have a guy standing right at the entrance telling you which ride to go on first, restricting your access to any other rides? There aren't quest-givers in GW2. When you enter each park (each zone), you can run off in any direction you like and visit any of the attractions (dynamic events) in whichever order you like. Watch the videos of starter human gameplay, running around the farmlands. "Oh hey, that ride looks like fun," is like, "Oh hey, bandits are attacking. This'll be fun."

Being non-linear doesn't make GW2 any less themepark.

I disagree with every ounce of my gaming soul!!

 

linearity is by its very basic definition a straight line, or in a sense of  MMO speak the hand holding linear quest path with little to no deviation.

 

 

 

GW2 is way more sandbox then themeoark by the very nature of the game being non linear.  I can hunt or quest anywhere i see a dynamic event take place, with minimal to no handholding structured quest hubs.  On top of this GW2 offers an endgame that starts right after character creation.  Plus a dynamic world as foreign from the staticboring themepark worlds of all the WoW clones. 

 

Sure it doesnt have all the major sandboxy type elements but it has enough to define it enough for my tastes.

  User Deleted
7/10/11 3:58:46 AM#53
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

How can anyone say that GW2 is anything but pure themepark? It's about as themepark as a game can get, but in the best way possible.

It's themepark the way themepark is supposed to be done.

How many real themeparks have a guy standing right at the entrance telling you which ride to go on first, restricting your access to any other rides? There aren't quest-givers in GW2. When you enter each park (each zone), you can run off in any direction you like and visit any of the attractions (dynamic events) in whichever order you like. Watch the videos of starter human gameplay, running around the farmlands. "Oh hey, that ride looks like fun," is like, "Oh hey, bandits are attacking. This'll be fun."

Being non-linear doesn't make GW2 any less themepark.

I disagree with every ounce of my gaming soul!!

 

linearity is by its very basic definition a straight line, or in a sense of  MMO speak the hand holding linear quest path with little to no deviation.

 

 

 

GW2 is way more sandbox then themeoark by the very nature of the game being non linear.  I can hunt or quest anywhere i see a dynamic event take place, with minimal to no handholding structured quest hubs.  On top of this GW2 offers an endgame that starts right after character creation.  Plus a dynamic world as foreign from the staticboring themepark worlds of all the WoW clones. 

 

Sure it doesnt have all the major sandboxy type elements but it has enough to define it enough for my tastes.

 This is the most frustrating thing about this site.  There's no standard definition for anything.

Shroom Mage:  GW2 is a not a sandbox because you can't create content.

Zylaxx:  GW2 is a sandbox because it's non linear.

Random people:  <Continue for 50 pages...>

  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

7/10/11 10:13:41 AM#54

GW2 is a themepark... period....

only difference in gw2 themepark and "standard idea" of themeparks is that your actions have concequences on your personal story. There's the DE system where your or groups failure/sucess have impact on the next step of that event which when it reaches the final step goes the opposite way.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  ErifNevow

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/11
Posts: 97

More of an idea guy...

7/10/11 10:23:43 AM#55

I consider it sandbox in the sense that you can do what you want when you want. It is themepark because it has things happening around you, things that are supposed to happen. It is a combonation everyone. generally in themepark, you get a linear order, which really needs to be its own genre.

Newb= Newly Enrolled Wannabe Badass.

  XilentStorm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/11/10
Posts: 211

Games are epic.

 
OP  7/10/11 1:22:17 PM#56

I simply want the best of both worlds, a full sandbox can get boring, but a full themepark is the same, sometimes worse! I really hope this willbe worth the money,

Veteran MMORPG Player -

ROM
EVE
RS (pre-EOC)- Habbo
Combat Arms - Crossfire -AVA
Maplestory, and more.

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

7/10/11 2:16:10 PM#57


Originally posted by cali59
This is the most frustrating thing about this site.  There's no standard definition for anything.
Shroom Mage:  GW2 is a not a sandbox because you can't create content.
Zylaxx:  GW2 is a sandbox because it's non linear.
Random people:  <Continue for 50 pages...>

I think that just about sums up the thread.

But honestly, what does linearity have to do with being a sandbox? In MegaMan you can fight the bosses in whichever order you want. Does that make it a sandbox?

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  bookworm438

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/10
Posts: 649

7/10/11 2:47:24 PM#58
Can we just agree to disagree that its a non-linear themepark mmo? They are still guiding you towards the end goal of fighting the elder dragons, but you can go on whatever ride you want in the mean time, in any order you want.
  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1567

7/10/11 2:50:31 PM#59
Originally posted by bookworm438
Can we just agree to disagree that its a non-linear themepark mmo? They are still guiding you towards the end goal of fighting the elder dragons, but you can go on whatever ride you want in the mean time, in any order you want.

Quite possibly the best definition of GW2.

Not that it matters, but apparently people need to argue about stuff until we get some new info later this month :P

  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

7/10/11 2:51:56 PM#60

It's a dynamic themepark game with 3-way server PvP that is supposed to have in-game benefits for actions in the battlefield.  Sounds a lot like DAOC in that sense, which I thought had a great "end-game" until they screwed it up with some expansions. 

So, not a true sandbox like EvE but one of the most innovative theme park MMOs in development.  If you want to see the other end of the spectrum from EvE, try SWTOR, where everything is a set story for each class depending upon alignment.  That game is a thempark on rails.

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