Originally posted by I_Return

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by I_Return

But it was perfectly o.k. to drag Rift into the SWtOR forum ? 

 

Back on topic,. the point of my thread was to display the beauty of an 8 year old game compared to a game that is releasing in a few days :). In my opinion, the game releasing character models are inferior to a very dated unreal 2 engined game,

Question: I notice in all your pics it says "Photoshop"

Did you shop these?

If so how can you really compare them to any other game if they are in fact shopped photos?

THe photoshop was focus blur to bring the eyye to the chacter models. I did not touch those models themselve, just focus blurred around them :)

Cool, its just confusing when I see things tagged thusly, and i'm not against trying L2 again its just the pics you show and the vids I find online are not meshing...

Like the videos look rather jaggy and distorted by compare, and its on 1080p I'm not nuts.

Maybe its like a graphics setting they have bad or something?  anyway you could link to a video of the game lookin fancy?  I'm just sorta curious, I've never really seen much of L2's graphics TBH.

If we posted about L2 on SWTOR's forum a mod would warn or ban hammer us.

The comments about grind are completely wrong at current.  The grind has been entirely eliminated.  In fact I think leveling is the fastest I've seen in any game now with the F2P path to awakening.

As far as graphics, that will always be in the eye of the beholder.  I personally find lineage 2 graphics to hold up very well.  Compared to many games that came it years ahead of it, I would say it still compares better then them.

Animations have always been a problem for lineage 2.  But to say they are bad is not entirely true.  The animations themselves are perfectly fine.  When put in context with ground and other people, then they can seem somewhat off at times.

To compare a game 8 years old and asian at that to SWTOR is completely not fair for either game.  You really are comparing apples to oranges.

Originally posted by gaugemew

If we posted about L2 on SWTOR's forum a mod would warn or ban hammer us.

The comments about grind are completely wrong at current.  The grind has been entirely eliminated.  In fact I think leveling is the fastest I've seen in any game now with the F2P path to awakening.

As far as graphics, that will always be in the eye of the beholder.  I personally find lineage 2 graphics to hold up very well.  Compared to many games that came it years ahead of it, I would say it still compares better then them.

Animations have always been a problem for lineage 2.  But to say they are bad is not entirely true.  The animations themselves are perfectly fine.  When put in context with ground and other people, then they can seem somewhat off at times.

To compare a game 8 years old and asian at that to SWTOR is completely not fair for either game.  You really are comparing apples to oranges.

But apples and oranges are both fruit, you can easily compare them, just like Lineage to any other video game.

Apples have a thin skin, that you typcially eat, and a stem.

Oranges you peel first, and divide into sections and devour them.

Apple seeds are black and small

Orange seeds are white and small.

See?  Its easy!

You will have to work to get to lvl 100, don't be fooled. from about 55 + you will be ready to cry ;)

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by I_Return

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by I_Return

But it was perfectly o.k. to drag Rift into the SWtOR forum ? 

 

Back on topic,. the point of my thread was to display the beauty of an 8 year old game compared to a game that is releasing in a few days :). In my opinion, the game releasing character models are inferior to a very dated unreal 2 engined game,

Question: I notice in all your pics it says "Photoshop"

Did you shop these?

If so how can you really compare them to any other game if they are in fact shopped photos?

THe photoshop was focus blur to bring the eyye to the chacter models. I did not touch those models themselve, just focus blurred around them :)

Cool, its just confusing when I see things tagged thusly, and i'm not against trying L2 again its just the pics you show and the vids I find online are not meshing...

Like the videos look rather jaggy and distorted by compare, and its on 1080p I'm not nuts.

Maybe its like a graphics setting they have bad or something?  anyway you could link to a video of the game lookin fancy?  I'm just sorta curious, I've never really seen much of L2's graphics TBH.

The game has 3 rendering modes, and a background blur. I will take a game image with out photoshop so you can see them :)

I absolutely love L2.  I really don't agree with those people who bash it for bashing's sake.  I returned when the truly free option came live and man.. am I having a hard time pulling away to play my preoreded SWTOR...  I can't say that it's "better" but I can tell you it draws me more than most other games.  It's the music.. style.. the non instanced world.  The simple fact that the game focuses not only on the end game but the journey and doesn't hold your hand all the way even now(yes there was a time when quests were only for class changes and such).    That's not even mentioning the first time your clan takes a castle or a fortress and you actually own that area about it.

Now I AM playing SWTOR and other games but L2 has always pulled me back.  It's not a common mmo in a genre saturated with look alikes.  It could just be my history with it... and it's possible that the new generation just can't enjoy how hardcore the game can be(though far from as bad as it used to be) but I really enjoy it.  Something in me cannot understand why some people don't love it as much as I do but the fact is there are plenty of people that hate on it even so.  Well you're entitled to your opinion as am I.  Let's leave it at that.

Originally posted by Nhoj1983

I absolutely love L2.  I really don't agree with those people who bash it for bashing's sake.  I returned when the truly free option came live and man.. am I having a hard time pulling away to play my preoreded SWTOR...  I can't say that it's "better" but I can tell you it draws me more than most other games.  It's the music.. style.. the non instanced world.  The simple fact that the game focuses not only on the end game but the journey and doesn't hold your hand all the way even now(yes there was a time when quests were only for class changes and such).    That's not even mentioning the first time your clan takes a castle or a fortress and you actually own that area about it.

 

Now I AM playing SWTOR and other games but L2 has always pulled me back.  It's not a common mmo in a genre saturated with look alikes.  It could just be my history with it... and it's possible that the new generation just can't enjoy how hardcore the game can be(though far from as bad as it used to be) but I really enjoy it.  Something in me cannot understand why some people don't love it as much as I do but the fact is there are plenty of people that hate on it even so.  Well you're entitled to your opinion as am I.  Let's leave it at that.

I know what you mean. I've quit about 4 times now for various reasons but always seem to come back. I've played dozens of other games but no other MMO has given me even close to the experiences this game has. It's hard to define in words as this is a game that either grabs you or it doesn't... there is no inbetween. I've played L2 off and on since beta and I'm back again. This time for a long time as their is really no reason to ever quit again now that it's free.

Bren

could it be these that bring you back ;D

One thing I love in L2 are the mobs, my god NCSoft artists are awesome, I have never in an MMO seen so many well designed and thought out monster models as I have in L2.

Um... honestly ? Back when I played (before the Kamael), it was like this:

• Human male - OK
• Human female - Um, things like bare midrift etc are quite annoying
• Elf male - OK
• Elf female - OK-ish
• Darkelf male - OK, but the running is, well, funny
• Darkelf female - Worst offender. Basically these busty ladies are running around naked, even as tanks.
• Orc male fighter - Extremely ugly, too small head on mountain of muscles
• Orc female fighter - OK
• Orc male shaman - OK
• Orc female shaman - loooks are OK-ish, but the VOICE ! Brr.
• Dwarf male - Amazingly ugly
• Dwarf female - OK. Very cute schoolgirls, really look nothing like the male ones

So yeah, I cant help but disagree about the claim that L2 has such great character models. It has good models for SOME, but others are extremely ugly, and the whole asian approach to women is nothing short repulsive.

First game with really cool looking dwarves was IMHO Dragon Age : Origins. Main reason was it was finally possible to create a dwarf who didnt have a beard.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by I_Return

The game is 8 years old, and the models blow SwtOR models out of the wateer. Of course they have rawer animation, cause the technology that they uses was 8 years ago .  :D Also didn't see any jiggly parts on the SwtOR models, thoseDark Elf  tahtahs are animated.

 

Just look at them, SWtOR will never aspire to that level of amazingness :)

Whatever makes you sleep at night.  Have fun playing your 8 year old grindfefst with "superior" character models

Actually, I'll be playing my 8 year-old, Eastern-flavored FFA PvP MMO...

1. ... that has no pre-determined factions telling me who my enemies and allies are and always will be 'til I stop playing that character.
2.  ... has fully player-driven politics that entails some very involved planning, coordination, negotiations, ultimatums, pay-offs and back-stabbing between clans/alliances, and even the enlistment of players as mercenaries fo hire to help a clan in achieving a goal.
3. ... which centers around massive PvP for the sieging of castles which grant its owner control over any town/village under their control, including ability to set tax rates, set up a "manor" system in which players can make money by farming and turning in certain materials; it also grants access to content otherwise unavailable (unless by invitation)
4. ... that gives its players' clans the ability to fight for control of territory
5. ... that gives its players' clans the ability to siege and take control of a fortress bringing its owners a variety of benefits and perks otherwise unavailable
6. ... that gives its players the ability to fight for control of hunting areas, raid bosses which drop valuable/powerful items
7. ... that grants clans/alliances the ability to declare war against or ally with other clans/alliances, to set their own terms of surrender or cease-fire.
8. ... that allows and empowers players to partake in PvP that has meaning and consequence, both immediate and long-term.
9. ... where a random skirmish between two individual players can escalate into a major PvP encounter, which can further set in motion events that eventually lead to a shift in the balance of the power for an entire server (I've witnessed this happen, several times).

If a player hasn't experienced any of that, then fine.. they couldn't speak to it. However, they also shouldn't assume that "grinding levels" is all there is to the game. If the extent to which someone has played L2 limits their experience to "a constant grind", then that is because constantly grinding is all they did. Any MMO can be a grind if you approach and treat it like one.

Also, the graphics and animation style of L2 is based on what is popular in the part of the world in which it was developed and for whom it was primarily intended: The Eastern market. Believe it or not, the "West" is not the center of the universe, and "What Western Gamers Prefer" is not a global mandate that all developers worldwide "must adhere to".  We are not their primary market.

Just as Blizzard's approach is intended to cater primarily to its Western market, NCSoft's approach is intended to cater primarily to its Eastern market. NCSoft is no more "wrong" for not catering more specifically to Western gamers than Blizzard is for not catering more specifically to Eastern gamers.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Um... honestly ? Back when I played (before the Kamael), it was like this:

• Human male - OK
• Human female - Um, things like bare midrift etc are quite annoying
• Elf male - OK
• Elf female - OK-ish
• Darkelf male - OK, but the running is, well, funny
• Darkelf female - Worst offender. Basically these busty ladies are running around naked, even as tanks.
• Orc male fighter - Extremely ugly, too small head on mountain of muscles
• Orc female fighter - OK
• Orc male shaman - OK
• Orc female shaman - loooks are OK-ish, but the VOICE ! Brr.
• Dwarf male - Amazingly ugly
• Dwarf female - OK. Very cute schoolgirls, really look nothing like the male ones

So yeah, I cant help but disagree about the claim that L2 has such great character models. It has good models for SOME, but others are extremely ugly, and the whole asian approach to women is nothing short repulsive.

First game with really cool looking dwarves was IMHO Dragon Age : Origins. Main reason was it was finally possible to create a dwarf who didnt have a beard.

 

DAOC had beardless dwarves from the start, however Mythic was roundly chastised for it.

The character models in L2 are pretty decent, especially considering how old the game is. (predates WOW even)

But if you think Darkelf female's are the worst offender you haven't seen the B level armor my Orc Tyrant is currently wearing.  Gives a whole new meaning to the term "light armor"

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Adamantine

Um... honestly ? Back when I played (before the Kamael), it was like this:

• Human male - OK
• Human female - Um, things like bare midrift etc are quite annoying
• Elf male - OK
• Elf female - OK-ish
• Darkelf male - OK, but the running is, well, funny
• Darkelf female - Worst offender. Basically these busty ladies are running around naked, even as tanks.
• Orc male fighter - Extremely ugly, too small head on mountain of muscles
• Orc female fighter - OK
• Orc male shaman - OK
• Orc female shaman - loooks are OK-ish, but the VOICE ! Brr.
• Dwarf male - Amazingly ugly
• Dwarf female - OK. Very cute schoolgirls, really look nothing like the male ones

So yeah, I cant help but disagree about the claim that L2 has such great character models. It has good models for SOME, but others are extremely ugly, and the whole asian approach to women is nothing short repulsive.

First game with really cool looking dwarves was IMHO Dragon Age : Origins. Main reason was it was finally possible to create a dwarf who didnt have a beard.

 

DAOC had beardless dwarves from the start, however Mythic was roundly chastised for it.

The character models in L2 are pretty decent, especially considering how old the game is. (predates WOW even)

But if you think Darkelf female's are the worst offender you haven't seen the B level armor my Orc Tyrant is currently wearing.  Gives a whole new meaning to the term "light armor"

You mean my DE has competition?! :o

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by I_Return

The game is 8 years old, and the models blow SwtOR models out of the wateer. Of course they have rawer animation, cause the technology that they uses was 8 years ago .  :D Also didn't see any jiggly parts on the SwtOR models, thoseDark Elf  tahtahs are animated.

 

Just look at them, SWtOR will never aspire to that level of amazingness :)

Whatever makes you sleep at night.  Have fun playing your 8 year old grindfefst with "superior" character models

Actually, I'll be playing my 8 year-old, Eastern-flavored FFA PvP MMO...

1. ... that has no pre-determined factions telling me who my enemies and allies are and always will be 'til I stop playing that character.
2.  ... has fully player-driven politics that entails some very involved planning, coordination, negotiations, ultimatums, pay-offs and back-stabbing between clans/alliances, and even the enlistment of players as mercenaries fo hire to help a clan in achieving a goal.
3. ... which centers around massive PvP for the sieging of castles which grant its owner control over any town/village under their control, including ability to set tax rates, set up a "manor" system in which players can make money by farming and turning in certain materials; it also grants access to content otherwise unavailable (unless by invitation)
4. ... that gives its players' clans the ability to fight for control of territory
5. ... that gives its players' clans the ability to siege and take control of a fortress bringing its owners a variety of benefits and perks otherwise unavailable
6. ... that gives its players the ability to fight for control of hunting areas, raid bosses which drop valuable/powerful items
7. ... that grants clans/alliances the ability to declare war against or ally with other clans/alliances, to set their own terms of surrender or cease-fire.
8. ... that allows and empowers players to partake in PvP that has meaning and consequence, both immediate and long-term.
9. ... where a random skirmish between two individual players can escalate into a major PvP encounter, which can further set in motion events that eventually lead to a shift in the balance of the power for an entire server (I've witnessed this happen, several times).

That, and more, is what L2 is really about.

If a player hasn't experienced any of that, then fine.. they couldn't speak to it. However, they also shouldn't assume that "grinding levels" is all there is to the game. If the extent to which someone has played L2 limits their experience to "a constant grind", then that is because constantly grinding is all they did. Any MMO can be a grind if you approach and treat it like one.

Anyone who says L2 is "just a Korean grindfest" with any pretense of it being "fact", has not truly played the game, has not experienced what it's really all about and is speaking from assumption, hearsay or sheer ignorance of the facts.

Also, the graphics and animation style of L2 is based on what is popular in the part of the world in which it was developed and for whom it was primarily intended: The Eastern market. Believe it or not, the "West" is not the center of the universe, and "What Western Gamers Prefer" is not a global mandate that all developers worldwide "must adhere to".  We are not their primary market.

Just as Blizzard's approach is intended to cater primarily to its Western market, NCSoft's approach is intended to cater primarily to its Eastern market. NCSoft is no more "wrong" for not catering more specifically to Western gamers than Blizzard is for not catering more specifically to Eastern gamers.

 

Very well said... I agree 100%. Most people don't get that far in the game to experience these things that make L2 shine above most other games unfortunately. Hopefully now that they have greatly lessened the grind that may not be such a barrier.

Bren