Because my opinion counts just like anyones else's and I had an opinon to make. Pity you didnt appart from just having a go at me so sod off unless you have something to say about lineage.

Originally posted by Arradien

Because my opinion counts just like anyones else's and I had an opinon to make. Pity you didnt appart from just having a go at me so sod off unless you have something to say about lineage.

 You are going on a crusade trying to get people not to play this game. Just look at how many topics you copy and pasted the exact same thing. Sorry but you are just a troll from what I see. Another person who tried the game and probaly never even made it to level 20 before they quit then come here and try to tell people about the game when they know absoulty nonthing about it at all.

NC Soft can win a lot of players in the west. Sure maybe official servers never had that many players but look at unofficial ones. There are thousends of players. L2 is incredibly popular game in many wester countries but most of them simply don't want to pay for it. NC should actually make L2 f2p in 1 or 2 years. I believe there is a big market for L3 but NC Soft has to be smart and somehow lure all those ppl from unofficial servers to official..

L2 is such a massive waste of time...One of my friends played it for 5 years since the day it was released and I think he's still playing but the point is he (without botting) had one character at max level and a second about 15 levels from max. To put in it perspective you could probably have hundreds of level 80s in WoW in 5 years. If you don't bot in L2 be prepared for a grind like nothing else. On top of needing millions of exp. and getting a few thousand per kill, there's so few quests it's not even funny and the ones you do find are too much work for too little reward. Next there's the class change quests which, depending upon what class you are, can take hours or days just so you can get a title and joke of a monetary reward. I can't say I regret playing (it was my first mmorpg ever) but I certainly wouldn't dream of resubscribing.

The only hope there is for L3, which I didn't even know was going to happen, is that they remake every facet of the game.

Originally posted by TwilightEdge

NC Soft can win a lot of players in the west. Sure maybe official servers never had that many players but look at unofficial ones. There are thousends of players. L2 is incredibly popular game in many wester countries but most of them simply don't want to pay for it. NC should actually make L2 f2p in 1 or 2 years. I believe there is a big market for L3 but NC Soft has to be smart and somehow lure all those ppl from unofficial servers to official..

 

I don't think that official servers would lure those who play the private ones. The official servers have a really retarded grind while the private ones varies from x20 to x1000. Peoples that play there want to just grind a few days and go pvp. There are really few of them that would play in the official servers.

Originally posted by Xotell

L2 is such a massive waste of time...One of my friends played it for 5 years since the day it was released and I think he's still playing but the point is he (without botting) had one character at max level and a second about 15 levels from max. To put in it perspective you could probably have hundreds of level 80s in WoW in 5 years. If you don't bot in L2 be prepared for a grind like nothing else. On top of needing millions of exp. and getting a few thousand per kill, there's so few quests it's not even funny and the ones you do find are too much work for too little reward. Next there's the class change quests which, depending upon what class you are, can take hours or days just so you can get a title and joke of a monetary reward. I can't say I regret playing (it was my first mmorpg ever) but I certainly wouldn't dream of resubscribing.

The only hope there is for L3, which I didn't even know was going to happen, is that they remake every facet of the game.

 

Why do you all think that everybody wants to get a max level toon in a week and run from npc to npc doing fed ex quest? I hate that type of game play and I know alot of peole that hate it also. There are so many mmos out there that have destroyed the genre with this type of gameplay and you talk as if there is something wrong with Lineage 2 because its not like those type of game. The people that play Lineage 2 play it because they like having to put in months of work to progress their character and they dont like running around doing lame quest all day.

Lineage 2 is not a waste of time at all. Its just not your type of game. You are a shinning example of whats wrong with the mmo era of today. You want everything now and you want it as easy as possible. I cant believe people still make these same arguments year afther year yet the game is still going strong afther 6 years! Lineage 2 is one of the most succesful mmos ever to be released and nonthing will ever change that. Afther 6 years its time to give it a rest because clearly people are enjoying the game or it would not be here.

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by Xotell

L2 is such a massive waste of time...One of my friends played it for 5 years since the day it was released and I think he's still playing but the point is he (without botting) had one character at max level and a second about 15 levels from max. To put in it perspective you could probably have hundreds of level 80s in WoW in 5 years. If you don't bot in L2 be prepared for a grind like nothing else. On top of needing millions of exp. and getting a few thousand per kill, there's so few quests it's not even funny and the ones you do find are too much work for too little reward. Next there's the class change quests which, depending upon what class you are, can take hours or days just so you can get a title and joke of a monetary reward. I can't say I regret playing (it was my first mmorpg ever) but I certainly wouldn't dream of resubscribing.

The only hope there is for L3, which I didn't even know was going to happen, is that they remake every facet of the game.

 

Why do you all think that everybody wants to get a max level toon in a week and run from npc to npc doing fed ex quest? I hate that type of game play and I know alot of peole that hate it also. There are so many mmos out there that have destroyed the genre with this type of gameplay and you talk as if there is something wrong with Lineage 2 because its not like those type of game. The people that play Lineage 2 play it because they like having to put in months of work to progress their character and they dont like running around doing lame quest all day.

Lineage 2 is not a waste of time at all. Its just not your type of game. You are a shinning example of whats wrong with the mmo era of today. You want everything now and you want it as easy as possible. I cant believe people still make these same arguments year afther year yet the game is still going strong afther 6 years! Lineage 2 is one of the most succesful mmos ever to be released and nonthing will ever change that. Afther 6 years its time to give it a rest because clearly people are enjoying the game or it would not be here.

Lineage 2 is not going strong in the west. Thats why they are doing server merges and it is estimated to only have two North America and one Euro server after the merge. Just because a game is making enough money to pay the bills does not make it into the list of most succesful mmos ever. Lineage 2 itself is a great game its just a pity that the staff at NCSoft North America who look after it and its customers have give up and basically suck at their jobs and what they do.

Originally posted by Xotell

L2 is such a massive waste of time...One of my friends played it for 5 years since the day it was released and I think he's still playing but the point is he (without botting) had one character at max level and a second about 15 levels from max. To put in it perspective you could probably have hundreds of level 80s in WoW in 5 years. If you don't bot in L2 be prepared for a grind like nothing else. On top of needing millions of exp. and getting a few thousand per kill, there's so few quests it's not even funny and the ones you do find are too much work for too little reward. Next there's the class change quests which, depending upon what class you are, can take hours or days just so you can get a title and joke of a monetary reward. I can't say I regret playing (it was my first mmorpg ever) but I certainly wouldn't dream of resubscribing.

The only hope there is for L3, which I didn't even know was going to happen, is that they remake every facet of the game.

Actually to that would be billions of exp. To level from 1-79 takes 2.1 billion exp and to level from 79-80 takes another 2.1 billion. lvl 80-85 each take progressivly more. The problem here is that you are approching it from the wrong perspective on several levels. First you expect the level grind to be quest based, and yes, questing is a type of grind. It may be a more interesting grind for some or even most people but it is a type of grind. Lineage provides the bulk of exp and cash from killing mobs. You can pick up quests that direct you to specifically killing zombies and the quest will give you a little bit extra for completing it but if you don't have the quest you don't loose much from simply running into a zombie and killing it. In WoW, the ghosts which don't progress your quest become an annoyance that slows you down as you hunt for 20 zombie bones. In Lineage 2 the ghosts are just more exp. Not just some incidental exp compared to the quest but rather just as much exp as what you are looking for. Second, you are assuming that getting to the level cap is a necessary part of the game. Another way of putting it is that you can start the endgame when you get to the cap. In WoW, lvl 79 is a nub and an endgame pvper or even raider can probably smoke them almost as fast as a lvl 10. Hell, you can be level 80, but if you are in greens and blues you are not coming to ICC. In lineage you start the endgame when you hit S-grade at lvl 76+ you are sieging, doing territory wars, doing olympiad and raiding world bosses with your clannies. None of whom may be at the level cap. 

I wrote the following in another thread, it might help:

------------
Finally, with respect to leveling and progression, don't get turned away by FUD that says that the leveling is a nightmare grind. Rather, understand that it is a completely different paradigm in progression. I will use WoW as the comparative example here. In wow you get to the end of the game by solo questing for 2 or 3 months depending on your amount of playtime. From their you progress by grinding rep, badges and gathering gear. You don't really simply stay at the original 80 that you were. An 80 in quest greens wont even be able to complete most heroics. So you do have a progression. 80greens, 80blue/purple ready for heroics, 80purple ready of hard heroics and 10mans and so forth until you get to lvl 80 best in slot gear, farming the Lich King every week.

In lineage, you reach the endgame and do your 3rd class change at lvl 76. All of 76 to 85 is the end game and you can get to 76 in about 4-6 months. 2 if you are spend a lot of time gaming and 12 if you only play 1 or 2 nights a week. Not so bad. If you get in with a good guild they can also help get you their faster, again, it is a social game. The leveling gets progressively slower and slower but it is really not bad until you hit 79. To get from 79-80 requires, literally as much exp as it does to get from 1-79. But that is ok because you are already well into endgame sieging, territory wars, olympiad or world raid bosses. What every interests you. Or you are working on a subclass. Point is, it is not hard to get to endgame, but it will take you years to get to 85. There are not but a handful of players, literally probably less than 100 that have gotten to 85 legitimately. (though there is a good number that botted their way there before the hammer started coming down on botting) My clan Ancient Heros is an older, higher level, active but not hardcore clan that has players who have been around since the beginning of Lineage 2. We have NO lvl 85s! zero, nada. I don't think we have any 83s or 84s either, I will need to check that. My point is that the game is not designed to get to the level cap and then progress another way. It is designed for you to get to S-grade (76+) and then slowly keep progressing for a good long time. You get access to a better grade of S armor at 80 and I hear even better at 84 but it is not dissimilar to going from heroic geared (S76) to minimal raid geared (S80) to best in slot geared (S84)

------------

Also, after reaching the cap in a few months, is it better to be able to complete the endgame in another few months and then wait around bored, farming ICC or working on achievements? Or would it be better to reach the endgame, but not the cap in a few months and then be able to continue to slowly progress over a few years?

I also argue in my other post that that grinding mobs is often better suited for social interaction. I find that people group and talk and  basically hang out, even with people they just ran into much better in lineage 2 simply because the grind lends itself to that interaction. But while questing, often you have to go to some bit of trouble to sync up where you are at on quests in a zone, so other than perhaps grouping for a short time to kill some elites (which are mostly gone now) or perhaps simply to not have to compete for mobs, grouping, while leveling, is rare. Unless you level by using the dungeon finder now and even then you often barely speak to these strangers that might not even be on your server. WoW is often a lonely game if you are not in a vent that has friends in it.

Originally posted by TwilightEdge

NC Soft can win a lot of players in the west. Sure maybe official servers never had that many players but look at unofficial ones. There are thousends of players. L2 is incredibly popular game in many wester countries but most of them simply don't want to pay for it. NC should actually make L2 f2p in 1 or 2 years. I believe there is a big market for L3 but NC Soft has to be smart and somehow lure all those ppl from unofficial servers to official..

I think they should switch to the Russian model in NA and EU. Free to play or subscribe to upgrade to premium account that gives you double exp and double drops. The doubling would take some of the edge off the longer leveling grind but without making it a push over and the free to play part would really just be an unlimited time trial. In Russia, most accounts are now subscribed or totally inactive. Few stay on the fence forever.

Second, a bit of advertising would be nice but I don't see that happening until L3. Also the graphics are dated and botting is still something of a problem though not like it once was. If L3 simply took the world of L2, its classes, features and gameplay and put it into and engine the quality of Aion, with a few  of Aion's better features, it would do very, very well. If they take the hard line agains bots that Aion finally implemented a few months too late, it could be significant game in the west. Some people are actually looking for something different, something longer looking and something actually harder.

Originally posted by Arradien

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by Xotell

L2 is such a massive waste of time...One of my friends played it for 5 years since the day it was released and I think he's still playing but the point is he (without botting) had one character at max level and a second about 15 levels from max. To put in it perspective you could probably have hundreds of level 80s in WoW in 5 years. If you don't bot in L2 be prepared for a grind like nothing else. On top of needing millions of exp. and getting a few thousand per kill, there's so few quests it's not even funny and the ones you do find are too much work for too little reward. Next there's the class change quests which, depending upon what class you are, can take hours or days just so you can get a title and joke of a monetary reward. I can't say I regret playing (it was my first mmorpg ever) but I certainly wouldn't dream of resubscribing.

The only hope there is for L3, which I didn't even know was going to happen, is that they remake every facet of the game.

 

Why do you all think that everybody wants to get a max level toon in a week and run from npc to npc doing fed ex quest? I hate that type of game play and I know alot of peole that hate it also. There are so many mmos out there that have destroyed the genre with this type of gameplay and you talk as if there is something wrong with Lineage 2 because its not like those type of game. The people that play Lineage 2 play it because they like having to put in months of work to progress their character and they dont like running around doing lame quest all day.

Lineage 2 is not a waste of time at all. Its just not your type of game. You are a shinning example of whats wrong with the mmo era of today. You want everything now and you want it as easy as possible. I cant believe people still make these same arguments year afther year yet the game is still going strong afther 6 years! Lineage 2 is one of the most succesful mmos ever to be released and nonthing will ever change that. Afther 6 years its time to give it a rest because clearly people are enjoying the game or it would not be here.

Lineage 2 is not going strong in the west. Thats why they are doing server merges and it is estimated to only have two North America and one Euro server after the merge. Just because a game is making enough money to pay the bills does not make it into the list of most succesful mmos ever. Lineage 2 itself is a great game its just a pity that the staff at NCSoft North America who look after it and its customers have give up and basically suck at their jobs and what they do.

It's true, it's not going well but it's not dead either.

The problem with Lineage 2 (or one of the problems which isn't a problem) is that it's not a game for everyone.

Here's the deal:

Good looking game, promises pvp, sieges, etc, so everyone and their brother tries it. They realize it has a huge grind but that's all they see. They don't see how brilliant the game play is if one is open to it.

So they quit. Meanwhile, all the players who the game actually speaks to are still playing. Or at least coming back in intervals.

And I agree with Mannish, give me Lineage 2's leveling over wow's ANY day. A N Y DAy.

Regardless of whether one loves it or not, the whole idea of Lineage 2 is that not everyone is equal. Not everyone is a clan leader. Not everyone can take Aden castle.

Of course the mechanics to separate players might seem a bit outdated but it's set up so that the most dedicated will rise to the top.

I remember going to talking island with a clan mate to help new players and one of the players asked about my class, sub class, etc. My clan mate then said that for all intent and purposes I was as close to a God in Lineage 2 as many get.

Now, i thought about it and (and for the time) he was right. Great equipment, practically top level for the time ( was lvl 78 just shy two levels from top) and upcoming players would have huge issues taking me down.

Of course there were even better players, better geared, higher levelled who could obliterate me but I wasn't usually scared when leaving town.

And part of that was because of the hard start that the game forced upon players. You were often pk'ed by higher lvl players. You had to be smart, and quick and clever to escape towns, to find places to level. These were the things that spurred me on.

And for clans? You had to sacrifice to get to the next clan level. And your clan mates had to help with many of the levels. It was a game where groups could get together and achieve things. Could overcome adversity.

So sure, a player could have many lvl 80's in WoW over all my levelign of one character. And I could go on about the things that wow does right. But in the end, I think Lineage 2 is the better game hands down.

Am I still playing it? nope. Why? Economy is too harsh for my taste at the higher levels. I hate working the whole economy thing. And tha'ts being kind with sugar.

But when one logs in to a siege knowing the whole server is there to remove you and you see everyone running here and there getting ready you know something that will reverberate through the game world is about to happen.

I don't get that sense of profundity with many of the newer games.

I'm with Mannish. It's a great game for those willing to see past it's flaws and who are willing to spend the time.

Lineage 2 limites it size, here in the west in three major ways.

First, it is ultimately a PvP game and as Tobold has pointed out in his blog more than once, PvP games will always be niche games to a certain degree simply because they are too hardcore and "scary" for the wider mmo audience that WoW helped to pull in. It just doesn't appeal to the seriously casual environment player.

Second, Lineage 2 is hardcore by design in its death penalties and other consequences such as expensive items exploding when you over enchant and things like that. This will not appeal to the wannabe hardcore pvp babies who want to gank and be badazz but cry when they get busted in the chops themselves.

Third, it is a grinding based social game in its leveling which is very much inline with asian mmo culture but very foreign to the west. This will never appeal to those who are addicted to this now, now, now immediate gratification culture of ours.

So what should NCsoft do about this? Nothing! Catering to the mob is not always a good thing. In fact, it is rarely a good thing. Different games need to target different groups of players. Also, players evolve over time. Tastes change. A grown up likes foods he hated when he was a kid. I think Lineage 2 is exactly where it needs to be. All lineage 3 needs to do is update the graphics, add some of the better usablity features that have been invented in the last 6 years, spend more than a buck and a half on marketing and from day one never let the botters get off the ground. Hammer the crap out of them, early, often and with a vengence.

 I am hoping Lineage 3 is just like Lineage 2 but with less of a xp grind and money grind. I want the same open world, open pvp, non quest based sandbox type game that Lineage 2 was. I dont want it to be easy and fast but I want it to be fun and social.

Originally posted by TheRogueX

It's funny how people are claiming that L2 was 'hard' and that you 'had to work for things,' as if that excuses the repetitive and waaaaay overdone grind.

I'm fairly certain I couldnt agree even more.

L2 was my first MMO, but I definitely wont play L3. The days where I thought that killing mobs endlessly was somehow OK are defintiely over.

If you give me a new game, please make it so you have to get a good group, manage good cooperation, and have a challenging combat system where you have to react to dynamic conditions.

The hard part is getting money and finding ways to keep getting money. Lineage 2 is the only mmo I have ever played where you have to spend money just to play. Soul shots, ports and pots are an everyday expence that can make a person quit if the don't know how to make money. You don't get money from killing mobs and you don't get gear from doing quest and that's what makes the game hard. The grind is the easy part.

Originally posted by caalem

Originally posted by M1nas-z3u

 Yeah... people are lazy thats why they use bots.

 

Anyway now these days. Its much easier to make level geed items and etc.(newbie buffs untill level 60 as i recall... low b itemz in shop etc..)

When i first started the game (C3) it was much harder!

 

And the fact is again... people are LAZY!

 

People don't use bots because they're lazy, people use bots because grinding the same exact mob over and over for 15+ hours straight hitting 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 over and over will cause someone to go crazy, and it's a very easy task for a computer to replicate.

Seems to me if a person finds playing the game that torturous that it makes them "crazy", a wise decision would be to cancel their sub and stop playing.

The excuse that "well the game is too tedious and repetitious and boring to play normally so I have to cheat" is BS. Choosing to continue playing a game someone obviously doesn't enjoy doesn't justify using bots instead. The whole "this game forces me to use cheats! I'm a victim!" routine is so dishonest and transparent it's amazing so many use it.

Originally posted by VikingGamer

I think Lineage 2 is exactly where it needs to be. All lineage 3 needs to do is update the graphics, add some of the better usablity features that have been invented in the last 6 years, spend more than a buck and a half on marketing and from day one never let the botters get off the ground. Hammer the crap out of them, early, often and with a vengence.

 

+1

When you hear people say things like grinding the same mobs over and over for 15 hours straight that tells you right there that this person has no idea what they are talking about. I am working on level 80 and I never spend more than 1-2 hours in any one xp spot. Its not even worth responding to the idiotic post that people make about these type of games. If you dont like then simply dont play it. None of us are in game wondering why you are not there.

Originally posted by Mannish
The hard part is getting money and finding ways to keep getting money. Lineage 2 is the only mmo I have ever played where you have to spend money just to play. Soul shots, ports and pots are an everyday expence that can make a person quit if the don't know how to make money. You don't get money from killing mobs and you don't get gear from doing quest and that's what makes the game hard. The grind is the easy part.

I had no problems with the xp grind but the money grind is what killed it for me.

If there was no money grind I would still be playing it.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Mannish
The hard part is getting money and finding ways to keep getting money. Lineage 2 is the only mmo I have ever played where you have to spend money just to play. Soul shots, ports and pots are an everyday expence that can make a person quit if the don't know how to make money. You don't get money from killing mobs and you don't get gear from doing quest and that's what makes the game hard. The grind is the easy part.

I had no problems with the xp grind but the money grind is what killed it for me.

If there was no money grind I would still be playing it.

 

 

Yea, the money grind is tough but I can honestly say that everything in game now is super cheap compared to what is was. I remember I paid 150M for a DC Light set and now you can get one for 30-50M. I paid 400M for a Drac Set which now can be bought for 100M. I saw somebody selling a Dynasty Light set the other day for 125M. S Grade Soul Shots are down to 120-150 Adena each and they keep falling. It seems that they only stuff that cost extreme amounts of adena now are top gears like Vesper. If its the money grind that got to you I would recommend trying the game again for sure.

Did the prices come down because of the server mergers and a stronger population stabalizing the economy? or did they NC tinker with the economy some how?

The prices of spirit shots would about kill ya. Has the cost of grinding fallen enough that you can net a gain on grinding? If not what can a pre S grade do to make cash. Does AA still sell well?