Just started playing yesterday with a SK and a TK (couldn't decide on one lol)  I have read that the SK is fairly effective at pvp but the TK, not so much.  I kinda like playing on the light side but I was wondering how bad TK's really are at pvp.  Would I get laughed off the field if I showed up?  Or, would I just not be pwning everyone?  I'm mostly interested in group pvp.  Castle sieges sound really cool.  Also, is it hard to find a group for an SK?  Would it hurt my chances at PvE related things and is PvE in this game essential?  Wow, I started off having one question, lol.  Thanks in advance for any help^^

Originally posted by EPN.Burbs

Just started playing yesterday with a SK and a TK (couldn't decide on one lol)  I have read that the SK is fairly effective at pvp but the TK, not so much.  I kinda like playing on the light side but I was wondering how bad TK's really are at pvp.  Would I get laughed off the field if I showed up?  Or, would I just not be pwning everyone?  I'm mostly interested in group pvp.  Castle sieges sound really cool.  Also, is it hard to find a group for an SK?  Would it hurt my chances at PvE related things and is PvE in this game essential?  Wow, I started off having one question, lol.  Thanks in advance for any help^^

Of all the tanks, SK is the most delicate.

Temple Knight is arguably the best Raid Boss Tank as they are extrmeley durable. They also do nothing for damage so will be very slow to level up. Now take into account that the game already has a slow (though faster than when it first went live) leveling curve and you can possibly imagine what you are in for.

Also, I hate to say it, but it will be a bit hard to find groups unless you are in a good clan/alliance as many people solo. However, as I said, tanks are wanted for Raid Bosses and also for AOE (area of effect) parties.

As far as pvp I would say the SK is the more viable option but then again, since TK's are so durable it will be hard to take you down. However, you are NOT going to be doing any significant damage and will be there to distract the enemy. If I remember correctly there are skills that draw an enemy's attention ("hate" for one) though I don't know if TK's have this.

You might want to go to the official site and look at the class forums for more information or to ask your questions.

both classes has hate that work's aginst enemy player's aoe or single target...

about raidbosses you it's gonna be in the lvl's off 20 to 40 where the diffrence is small beteween the 2 classes so it dosen't really matter and then a jump to 6x +. 
Then you need a good clan to take down raidbosses to but also good gear for yourself and witch will required a lot off time on the market, since it's unlikey a guild will borrow out the gear 
(but depends on how long you been with em)

the sk is the best for pvp but about survial in pvp it isen't much your either a 2 or 3 hit to equal lvled player's or 2 to 3 second's away from death when a group target's you.

Cool, thanks guys!  I've been working on leveling both, my dark elven fighter a little more so.  I'll probably keep doing that until I take a liking to one over the other.  I do plan on hopefully finding a good clan.  I would post on the official forums but my forum account hasn't been approved yet >_<

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Originally posted by EPN.Burbs

Just started playing yesterday with a SK and a TK (couldn't decide on one lol)  I have read that the SK is fairly effective at pvp but the TK, not so much.  I kinda like playing on the light side but I was wondering how bad TK's really are at pvp.  Would I get laughed off the field if I showed up?  Or, would I just not be pwning everyone?  I'm mostly interested in group pvp.  Castle sieges sound really cool.  Also, is it hard to find a group for an SK?  Would it hurt my chances at PvE related things and is PvE in this game essential?  Wow, I started off having one question, lol.  Thanks in advance for any help^^

Well, first of all, the SK is a bit more offensive but has a lower con than the more defensive TK.

 

Of all the tanks, SK is the most delicate.

Temple Knight is arguably the best Raid Boss Tank as they are extrmeley durable. They also do nothing for damage so will be very slow to level up. Now take into account that the game already has a slow (though faster than when it first went live) leveling curve and you can possibly imagine what you are in for.

Also, I hate to say it, but it will be a bit hard to find groups unless you are in a good clan/alliance as many people solo. However, as I said, tanks are wanted for Raid Bosses and also for AOE (area of effect) parties.

As far as pvp I would say the SK is the more viable option but then again, since TK's are so durable it will be hard to take you down. However, you are NOT going to be doing any significant damage and will be there to distract the enemy. If I remember correctly there are skills that draw an enemy's attention ("hate" for one) though I don't know if TK's have this.

You might want to go to the official site and look at the class forums for more information or to ask your questions.

Ah Knights a topic near and dear to my heart :)

Well it just so happens that I have a high level TK or ET post 3rd class change, as my primary class.

Firstly,  there is no such thing as a defensive tank since C2 and subsequently C3 when all the tanks were given the same defensive baseline skills. There are some small differences in how the skills are implemented, but overall they are cosmetic and all tanks mitigate damage effectively the same. Elven tanks are slightly better at damage avoidance due to higher dex, however this is only noticeable when you have agi buffs and again is largely cosmetic in the greater scheme of things.

The concept of offensive and defensive is a legacy issue predating C2 when the Paladin and TK had specific skills defensively orientated in direct contrast to the SK and DA which had offensive skills, cubics and pet respectively.

Secondly, in terms of general characteristics, human tanks are more resilient and but elven tanks crit more often due to higher dex. The SK hits just as hard as the DA and PAL leaving the TK as the "weakest" of the tanks. The SK's "achilles heel" is their low con which has earnt them the title of glass cannons. TK's con is somewhat higher but still nowhere near human con and coupled with their low str makes them the worst bang for buck tank.

Many ppl claim that HP for tanks is the most important attribute. This depends on your playstyle and equipment focus. HP are particularly  important in PvP where your chances of getting effective heals are decreased due to the dynamic situation of the encounter. More importantly damage from DD's is far beyond any PvE encounter and redefines how tanks must set up for PvP. When it comes to PvE there is no issues for any of the tanks. HP for raidboss tanking are not as critical, as there are only a few raid bosses which can kill a high level tank outright in one hit before a heal can land on them. All knights can raid tank equally well as now have special abilities to burst aggression and build hate.

Hate works in both PvE and PvP. In PvE its a competitive "damage equivalent" burst which influences the mobs aggression list to turn its attention to you. The reason I say that its competitive is that damage, (spell, melee and missile alike) are directly proportional on the mobs aggression scale as are heals. Debuffs and other support magic/skills including songs all have their own "inherent" aggression scores which compete with your damage output for the mobs focus on you. This is why you will find yourself losing the mobs aggression from time to time to overzealous DDs which can easily outdamage you, even with the recent changes and improvements to knight aggression skills.

In terms of PvP tanks don't really have a specific role. This is particularly debilitating in Sieges and group PvP. The ability to force target change onto your tank has now been mitigated by a longer cooldown for the skill reuse. This now  gives your target a chance to get out of the "hate lock" which was possible with the previous refresh rate. Overall its a bit of a step back as far as tank utility in PvP and requires more skill on the part of the tank to use effectively and efficiently.

Other than that in large scale PvP tanks are only "damage resistant" to certain attacks and with the advent of special attacks which bypass specific knight defences its only a matter of chosing the right skill to eliminate the knight. As such knights are simply relegated to the "kill last" category as their generally high damage mitigation causes an unnecessary waste of DPS which needs to be applied to more dangerous targets. Tank DPS, even on the more offensively equipped and tattoed knights is not overly threatening to most classes who can spam CP and HP pots faster than you can inflict damage.

Both TK's and SK's fare a little better in Olympiad based PvP where their innate buffs and skills match them a lot better against their human, dwarven or orcish opponents. The SK's has a better range of skills which it can use in PvP and IF you can equip yourself sufficiently well with the appropriate equipment you will do well IF you can land some of your special attacks. Again low HP tends to undo their higher DPS gains. TK's have some flexibility in their innate skills however in many cases you are relegated to kiting your opponents and given the low DPS of a TK, many of my friends have said that PVPing with me is akin to watching paint dry or grass grow.  The lack of any decent offensive PvP skills is indeed quite gruelling and even with overenchanted tribunal your overall threat factor is limited. My only offensive gambit of note is to use a highly overenchanted carnage bow with crit bleed hoping to give me the edge in hit and run melee clashes. Not much of a TTP with predictable results. Having said that, these days I tend to draw more often than win/lose as ppl simply give up on the fight or run out of time in timed events. (N.B. this is only in "self buffed" style encounters with olympiad style rules, as soon as you fight a fully buffed DD you're pretty much pink mist)

Hope this gives you some scope on the playstyle of knights... Fun for PvE, but your paddling up stream in a leaky boat as far as PvP is concerned.

Regards,

Ellyrion Fiallathandriel

The Reckless Knight

Lunatris

Originally posted by Ellyrion

 

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Originally posted by EPN.Burbs

Just started playing yesterday with a SK and a TK (couldn't decide on one lol)  I have read that the SK is fairly effective at pvp but the TK, not so much.  I kinda like playing on the light side but I was wondering how bad TK's really are at pvp.  Would I get laughed off the field if I showed up?  Or, would I just not be pwning everyone?  I'm mostly interested in group pvp.  Castle sieges sound really cool.  Also, is it hard to find a group for an SK?  Would it hurt my chances at PvE related things and is PvE in this game essential?  Wow, I started off having one question, lol.  Thanks in advance for any help^^

Well, first of all, the SK is a bit more offensive but has a lower con than the more defensive TK.

 

Of all the tanks, SK is the most delicate.

Temple Knight is arguably the best Raid Boss Tank as they are extrmeley durable. They also do nothing for damage so will be very slow to level up. Now take into account that the game already has a slow (though faster than when it first went live) leveling curve and you can possibly imagine what you are in for.

Also, I hate to say it, but it will be a bit hard to find groups unless you are in a good clan/alliance as many people solo. However, as I said, tanks are wanted for Raid Bosses and also for AOE (area of effect) parties.

As far as pvp I would say the SK is the more viable option but then again, since TK's are so durable it will be hard to take you down. However, you are NOT going to be doing any significant damage and will be there to distract the enemy. If I remember correctly there are skills that draw an enemy's attention ("hate" for one) though I don't know if TK's have this.

You might want to go to the official site and look at the class forums for more information or to ask your questions.

Ah Knights a topic near and dear to my heart :)

 

Well it just so happens that I have a high level TK or ET post 3rd class change, as my primary class.

Firstly,  there is no such thing as a defensive tank since C2 and subsequently C3 when all the tanks were given the same defensive baseline skills. There are some small differences in how the skills are implemented, but overall they are cosmetic and all tanks mitigate damage effectively the same. Elven tanks are slightly better at damage avoidance due to higher dex, however this is only noticeable when you have agi buffs and again is largely cosmetic in the greater scheme of things.

The concept of offensive and defensive is a legacy issue predating C2 when the Paladin and TK had specific skills defensively orientated in direct contrast to the SK and DA which had offensive skills, cubics and pet respectively.

Secondly, in terms of general characteristics, human tanks are more resilient and but elven tanks crit more often due to higher dex. The SK hits just as hard as the DA and PAL leaving the TK as the "weakest" of the tanks. The SK's "achilles heel" is their low con which has earnt them the title of glass cannons. TK's con is somewhat higher but still nowhere near human con and coupled with their low str makes them the worst bang for buck tank.

Many ppl claim that HP for tanks is the most important attribute. This depends on your playstyle and equipment focus. HP are particularly  important in PvP where your chances of getting effective heals are decreased due to the dynamic situation of the encounter. More importantly damage from DD's is far beyond any PvE encounter and redefines how tanks must set up for PvP. When it comes to PvE there is no issues for any of the tanks. HP for raidboss tanking are not as critical, as there are only a few raid bosses which can kill a high level tank outright in one hit before a heal can land on them. All knights can raid tank equally well as now have special abilities to burst aggression and build hate.

Hate works in both PvE and PvP. In PvE its a competitive "damage equivalent" burst which influences the mobs aggression list to turn its attention to you. The reason I say that its competitive is that damage, (spell, melee and missile alike) are directly proportional on the mobs aggression scale as are heals. Debuffs and other support magic/skills including songs all have their own "inherent" aggression scores which compete with your damage output for the mobs focus on you. This is why you will find yourself losing the mobs aggression from time to time to overzealous DDs which can easily outdamage you, even with the recent changes and improvements to knight aggression skills.

In terms of PvP tanks don't really have a specific role. This is particularly debilitating in Sieges and group PvP. The ability to force target change onto your tank has now been mitigated by a longer cooldown for the skill reuse. This now  gives your target a chance to get out of the "hate lock" which was possible with the previous refresh rate. Overall its a bit of a step back as far as tank utility in PvP and requires more skill on the part of the tank to use effectively and efficiently.

Other than that in large scale PvP tanks are only "damage resistant" to certain attacks and with the advent of special attacks which bypass specific knight defences its only a matter of chosing the right skill to eliminate the knight. As such knights are simply relegated to the "kill last" category as their generally high damage mitigation causes an unnecessary waste of DPS which needs to be applied to more dangerous targets. Tank DPS, even on the more offensively equipped and tattoed knights is not overly threatening to most classes who can spam CP and HP pots faster than you can inflict damage.

Both TK's and SK's fare a little better in Olympiad based PvP where their innate buffs and skills match them a lot better against their human, dwarven or orcish opponents. The SK's has a better range of skills which it can use in PvP and IF you can equip yourself sufficiently well with the appropriate equipment you will do well IF you can land some of your special attacks. Again low HP tends to undo their higher DPS gains. TK's have some flexibility in their innate skills however in many cases you are relegated to kiting your opponents and given the low DPS of a TK, many of my friends have said that PVPing with me is akin to watching paint dry or grass grow.  The lack of any decent offensive PvP skills is indeed quite gruelling and even with overenchanted tribunal your overall threat factor is limited. My only offensive gambit of note is to use a highly overenchanted carnage bow with crit bleed hoping to give me the edge in hit and run melee clashes. Not much of a TTP with predictable results. Having said that, these days I tend to draw more often than win/lose as ppl simply give up on the fight or run out of time in timed events. (N.B. this is only in "self buffed" style encounters with olympiad style rules, as soon as you fight a fully buffed DD you're pretty much pink mist)

Hope this gives you some scope on the playstyle of knights... Fun for PvE, but your paddling up stream in a leaky boat as far as PvP is concerned.

Regards,

Ellyrion Fiallathandriel

The Reckless Knight

Lunatris

 

hmmm... I don't know Ellyrion. I usually agree with you and "yes" if you play a tank you know more about it than me.

But are you saying that a Shillien Knight is equally as good as a Temple Knight for Raid Bosses? That seems a bit reaching no?

As hard as it may seem to believe, yes I am.

Infact SK's and TKs are identical defensively.

Allow me to illustrate:

Lv 80 Symbol of Defence - same for both ST and ET

Lv 79 Iron Shield & Shield of Faith - same for both

Lv 78 Knighthood & Magic Mirror - same for both

Lv 77 Shield bash & vengance - same for both

LV76 Skills : Fortitude, Health & Wisdom - same for both

Max Defensive Skills for TK at lv 74 are:

Heavy Armour Mastery - Max lv 52

Magic Resistance - Max lv 51

Final Fortress - Max lv 11

Shield Fortress - Max lv 6

Aegis - Max lv 1 (received once at 60)

Guard Stance - Max lv 4 (maxed out at 70)

Shield Mastery - Max lv 4 (maxed out at 52)

Deflect Arrow - Max lv 4 (maxed out at 49)

UD lv 2

Defensive Aura lv 2

Holy Armour is now a defensive toggle to allow for dark attack resists, it used to add a shield lv2 worth of p.def vs undead mobs. I know which one I preferred...

Max Defensive Skills for SK at lv 74 are:

Heavy Armour Mastery - Max lv 52

Base level of dex difference between TK and SK is one - negligible.

So yes, poor development has led to the marginalisation of the TK as a premier defensive tank.

There is not one useful skill which the TK has in its repertoire which could be considered influential on the outcome of a combat situation. Every other knight class has something as good if not better.

Offensively there is no comparison. The TK has only 1 skill vs SKs - 12.

Regards,

Ellyrion Fiallathandriel

The Reckless Knight

Lunatris