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Lineage II Forum » Giran (General) » Lineage 2 worth playing?

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53 posts found
  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1158

10/20/13 7:56:52 PM#41
Originally posted by Aori
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by Aori
Originally posted by VastoHorde
I am also on Chronos. Whats your character names?

Thought you quit?

I won't be playing again though, along with most of the people I've played with. My stay had always gotten shorter and it is because the game has no place for legit players. I accomplished a lot in all my stays though and did enjoy the time spent.. though my last stay was rather boring on the PvP front.

For as often as remarks like it are made, I really, honestly, don't get this bit in the orange at all. It flies completely in the face of exactly what I, and others, have been doing all along, and continue to do.

I play 100% legit. A good friend of mine (pictured above in my screenshots) plays 100% legit. I know Sovrath, when he's playing, plays legit. People in my Clan are legit, participating in a castle siege tonight, at which they'll be playing legit. People in other clans I've been in in the past and am still in contact with, play legit. All are enjoying (or have enjoyed) the game in that way.

So, really... I don't mean this in a condescending or snarky way.. but when I see people make remarks like that bit in orange, I have absolutely no idea what they mean.  Again, I'm doing exactly what they claim isn't possible, and am having a fine time of it. I read the clan chat while I'm doing my thing, and I can see others in my clan are having a ball.. PvP'ing other clans' members, etc...

There absolutely is a place in L2 for legit players; as much as there's ever been.

But then, I guess you could can glean my approach to MMOs by reading my sig and quote here. That's really how I approach them, as an entire experience that begins from the moment the character is created where leveling is what happens while you're playing and experiencing the rest of the game.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Aori

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1787

10/20/13 9:22:57 PM#42

Let me rephrase, hardcore PvPers who want to be legit will not enjoy Lineage 2. I know there are legit player however few there are.

 

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4111

10/20/13 9:53:57 PM#43
This game is what ever you make out of it. You don't have to cheat to play and you don't have to cheat to compete in pvp. Now if your plan is to take over the world then that's another story. lol

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1158

10/20/13 9:59:10 PM#44
Originally posted by Aori

Let me rephrase, hardcore PvPers who want to be legit will not enjoy Lineage 2. I know there are legit player however few there are.

 

Well, what do you define as "hardcore PvP"?

If I'm understanding you, it seems that for your statements to hold true, "hardcore PvP" would have to be strictly defined by specific activities within a very specific level range, at a very specific point in the game... which just happens to be where the botters/buyers dominate.

Thing is... that's not the entire game. And most of the people - at least that I've known and played with over the years - want nothing to do with that "world". There's plenty else for them to do in the game without even touching that stuff.

The fact is, there's plenty of PvP for anyone, at most any level. L2 is an open PvP MMO. You can fight with someone over just about anything if you wanted to, even something like control over a questing or xp'ing spot. If two clans declare war on each other and actively hunt each other and get into a scuffle, that's still fertile ground for hardcore PvP to take place. I think someone participating actively in something like that would take offense (and rightfully so) if you told them they weren't hardcore PvP'ers because they weren't competing in some specific part of the game.... especially when that part of the game is overrun by botters/scripters/buyers and can only be dubiously referred to as real PvP in the first place.

For my time/money, I'd rather hang with the people in the earlier parts of the game... actually playing their characters and competing through their own earned skills and gear, not through scripts and botted levels. And plenty of those people do exist.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Aori

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1787

10/20/13 10:41:19 PM#45
Originally posted by VastoHorde
This game is what ever you make out of it. You don't have to cheat to play and you don't have to cheat to compete in pvp. Now if your plan is to take over the world then that's another story. lol

Unless things have changed Olympiad is dominated by scripts/radar/auto cp/hp. Unless things have changed the most dominant clans use the same methods or at least built themselves on top of it.

Now I'm going 100% on information prior to F2P, I don't imagine the game got more legit since taking the sub out.

I'm also pretty sure I've had a similar discussion with you a year or two ago about the game "VastoHorde" that I'm having with TP.

As for TP, thank you for explaining how PvP works in lineage 2 /sarcasm. How are you going to sell someone the game while in the same breath saying you won't play part of it because it is dominated by cheaters? Sorry people who are hardcore PvP are going to want to participate in all that it has to offer.

But whatever if you guys like living in the shadows of the cheaters more power to ya. As long as they stay out of your corner of the world then its ok. Way to promote the game.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1158

10/21/13 7:21:55 AM#46
Originally posted by Aori
Originally posted by VastoHorde
This game is what ever you make out of it. You don't have to cheat to play and you don't have to cheat to compete in pvp. Now if your plan is to take over the world then that's another story. lol

Unless things have changed Olympiad is dominated by scripts/radar/auto cp/hp. Unless things have changed the most dominant clans use the same methods or at least built themselves on top of it.

Now I'm going 100% on information prior to F2P, I don't imagine the game got more legit since taking the sub out.

I'm also pretty sure I've had a similar discussion with you a year or two ago about the game "VastoHorde" that I'm having with TP.

As for TP, thank you for explaining how PvP works in lineage 2 /sarcasm. How are you going to sell someone the game while in the same breath saying you won't play part of it because it is dominated by cheaters? Sorry people who are hardcore PvP are going to want to participate in all that it has to offer.

But whatever if you guys like living in the shadows of the cheaters more power to ya. As long as they stay out of your corner of the world then its ok. Way to promote the game.

Okay, so now you're gonna start getting defensive and taking jabs because someone's disagreeing with you. That's unfortunate.

Olympiad is one activity in a game featuring plenty of others. Defining or damning an entire game based on the activities of some players around one specific activity is pretty ridiculous. It seems a bit like you're reaching... any straw will do.

Not to mention that Olympiad isn't even something everyone is interested in, or even ever has been. Even back when I was in an avid and quit active PvP clan/alliance, very few were even interested enough to compete in it. They found the Hero thing to be "neat" but not compelling enough to focus on it seriously. I always found it kind of silly, personally.  Regardless, at the end of the day, Olympiad is just one activity in a game that only matters to those who care enough to participate in the first place. It means absolutely squat to anyone else.

You certainly seem to assign a lot of importance to it, however. So maybe that's the key issue here; you place a high value on Olympiad/Hero status, and assume everyone else does as well. It's certainly evidenced by your remark about "living in the shadow of the cheaters". That's very dramatic sounding and all, but it's simply a silly remark to make. I'm not living in anyone's shadow.  You are projecting way too much of your own views on to others here.

I couldn't even tell you who the current Heroes are. I couldn't care less. Olympiad means absolutely nothing to me, and hasn't since it was introduced. I learned what it was, saw what it entailed and thought "eh.. not really my thing". I used to keep Hero chat on back on Gustin only because one of the Heroes was pretty funny, would occasionally break into song, etc. ('cause you know... Olympiad is serious business). There are plenty others who feel the same way. Olympiad/Hero status is not the "End All of Lineage 2" for everyone. And no, it's not "only because they know they could never compete"... so if that response was about to be delivered, you can let it go.

Put simply, when I'm out xp'ing, or questing, or doing a siege, or PvP'ing another clan with my own clan-mates.. what a bunch of people are doing in Olympiad, or how they're doing it, means absolutely nothing to me. I has zero impact on what I'm doing, or how much I'm enjoying it.

The game is not "dominated by cheaters". Here again, you are just being dramatic make your argument seem stronger. You can keep repeating that mantra all you like. The fact is, the game itself is not dominated by cheaters. Certain parts of it have a lot of cheaters in them, sure. Certainly a number of players partake in hacking/botting/etc. Regardless, that does not constitute "the entire game being dominated by cheaters", and it does not affect everyone playing the game. 

Fun Fact: There are cheaters/hackers/botters in every single MMO out there. Every single one. PvE and PvP alike. In every single one, those cheaters are using those cheats to their advantage, to dominate in whatever it is they're doing. By your standards, all those MMOs are dominated by cheaters and so no one should bother playing them, unless they want to live in the shadow of the cheaters dominating the game.

Somehow I have the feeling you wouldn't hold that view of whatever MMO you're a fan of (which I guarantee has cheaters in it as well), nor try to scare people away from playing it through cherry-picked examples and overly-dramatic statements.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Aori

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1787

10/21/13 12:16:52 PM#47

TP I don't think I took Jabs at anyone.

Anyways you're being ridiculous. It is fine that you don't like parts of the game and it doesn't bother you. However it doesn't change the fact that anyone looking at the game is going to run into this shit until they LEARN to avoid parts of the game they aren't allowed to play legitimately.

C5 Franz was dominated by RussianMafia and its allies using hacks, cheats. Chronos was/is dominated by Nova doing the same shit. The top guilds are major bot/rmt groups that usually have squads that specifically use hacks to destroy their enemies. 

Yes hacks and cheats are in every MMO, however Lineage 2 is king when it comes to corruption.

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4111

10/21/13 4:07:33 PM#48
I gave up talking about cheating in Lineage 2 years ago.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1158

10/21/13 7:57:07 PM#49
Originally posted by Aori

TP I don't think I took Jabs at anyone.

You made two or three sarcastic/condescending remarks in your post, directed at me, which were uncalled for.

Anyways you're being ridiculous. It is fine that you don't like parts of the game and it doesn't bother you. However it doesn't change the fact that anyone looking at the game is going to run into this shit until they LEARN to avoid parts of the game they aren't allowed to play legitimately.

You're still misinterpreting, or simply completely missing what I'm saying. I never said it doesn't bother me. I can't stand hacking/botting/RMT'ing, etc. I'd love nothing more than to see those people perma-banned. That's a completely different issue.

What I'm saying here, again, is that the activities where the hacking/botting/cheating is taking place do not intermix with nor affect all the other activities in the game. You asserted in previous posts that the game is "dominated by cheaters". You attempted to diminish the content players can participate in by describing it as "playing in the shadows of cheaters". Several times, you've tried to describe the game as a whole as being impossible to enjoy because of some pervasive hacking/cheating issue which - in reality - only exists in and/or affects specific parts of the game.

You attempted to undermine it in another way by talking about "being in my little corner", yet again attempting to paint a dismissive and inaccurate picture of the game and all a player has to do in it.

There is, arguably, far more content that isn't susceptible to the hacking/cheating you're talking about than there is. Raid bosses, PvP (yes, even hardcore PvP), Sieges, XP'ing, Questing... all manner of activities can be engaged in and enjoyed just fine by people without even ever having to share the same "air" as one of the people you're describing.

All of the statements you've made have depicted the entire game as being overrun, dominated and "overshadowed" by hacking/cheating, and that simply isn't true.

I'm just trying to get you off the binge of hyperbolic over-generalizations you've been on in this thread, so people can get a more fair and accurate view of the game, as it's experienced by someone who is playing it just fine, and has for over 5 years (along with many others), without ever having to deal with what you're describing.... even while knowing it exists and happens.

C5 Franz was dominated by RussianMafia and its allies using hacks, cheats. Chronos was/is dominated by Nova doing the same shit. The top guilds are major bot/rmt groups that usually have squads that specifically use hacks to destroy their enemies. 

Hindemith was dominated by its share of super-power Alliances/Clans. Gustin was dominated by its share of super-power Alliances and Clans. In all cases, they were known to have members that botted/bought/cheated their way "to the top". It goes as far back as I can remember, well back into the Chronicles. Regardless, at the end of the day - it didn't affect anyone but the people competing in that specific content.

Yes hacks and cheats are in every MMO, however Lineage 2 is king when it comes to corruption.

Cheating is cheating. Hacking is hacking. Botting is botting. The point remains, it doesn't "dominate the game" in every other MMO, and it doesn't "dominate" the game in L2.

 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Jinxys

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/30/05
Posts: 358

2/23/14 3:00:31 AM#50

@Tangent.

 

This is exactly how I want to play once I finish installing Lineage 2. I played way back at in the early days on Erica server. I am going to also avoid the "Hand holding" aspects, and just play how I used to.  It was very relaxing going out and finding a grinding spot and just losing myself for a few hours.

Everything from Lineage 2 feels so nostalgic. The music, the environments the characters (which still imo look a lot better than some late model mmorpg's !)

Go go go 11mbps download lol. ( This might take some hours to get the client)

Can't wait to try out my Spellhowler or Warcryer again. Not sure what i will start with. It's been quite sometime.

  Hal9k

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 37

2/25/14 2:24:03 AM#51

Interesting discussion. Whenever I am considering a long running game that I've never touched, I read these types of threads. The first question I ask is: can I have fun as a complete noob. Specifically, are there any low level players on the server, or is it all veterans. I had a most unfortunate experience with a little game called Anarchy Online. Incredibly rich lore, story and world. Huge huge virtual world very deep questlines, dungeons, raids, pvp, and one of the most involved ability and gear systems I've ever seen. Not only that, but the playerbase is the most mature and friendly in the MMO space. They immediately took me in, geared me up and started teaching me the game. But I ended up getting bored and quitting. Why? Because nobody wanted to play the lower level content with me. Can't blame them, but it was just a crying shame that this richly crafted world wasn't being fully utilized. They would take me the juiciest powerleveling spots, and I would grind for hours and days on end, with their aim to get me up to their level. And I play like TP...I enjoy the game at my own pace.

 

So I'd like to hear that aspect of L2. I will also throw in my 2 cents on the topic of botting: it sounds like much of the content is relatively untainted by cheating, but it's still a very bad thing that even one aspect is essentially untouchable without cheating. That really reflects poorly on the company, and it is a deterrant to potential new players like myself. So it isn't nothing, it's somewhat important. I don't know  what Heros and Olympiad or whatever is, but I was the third HWL in Vanilla WoW and I might like the option of hardcore PvP grinding if I so choose. I have it simply not be an option is a bigger deal than one might think, even if I never actually get there. It's the removal of an option.

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4111

2/25/14 9:27:33 PM#52

If you want to try something different give the game a try. Its free to play so why not. Higher level people are going to want to get you to there level quick as possible so you can play with them. That's just how it is but if you want you can always look for a low level clan to join if you want to get the full experience. Only advice is to join a good active clan asap and keep in mind that Lineage 2 is a 10 year old game.

  Hal9k

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 37

2/25/14 10:51:58 PM#53

Thanks Jokan. I did install it today, and the initial experience was baffling. At first I thought the inability to even whisper being nonexistent until level 20 couldn't be a real thing. Silly me. I honestly cannot believe somebody thought this would be a good idea...hey, let's gag potential new players so that they cannot interact with anybody in the game! Yes, way to encourage further gameplay and community! Mind=blown. Especially given that the game is unique in many ways, not the least of which is the control scheme. If I ever wanted to ask for help from other players in an MMO, it would be this one.

Aside from that it seems like a rich game world, but the final straw was the control scheme. Had I known it was click-to-move, I wouldn't have bothered to install it. I've been strafing since DAoC, and that's just as old if not older than Lineage II. I suppose for some people, it's just what the doctor ordered, but not for me. No jumping, no strafing, and no option to reverse the Y axis on the mouse. Wow. This game does not want new players. It is firmly in the "love it or leave it" category, and if you don't like it, GTFO. I'm not one of those kids who feels the need to jump incessantly while waiting for the wind rider, but the natural feel of leaping over a low wall or hedge is a must, as is the strafing mechanic...not necessarily for kiting/combat, but just getting around the world. It's very conducive to sightseeing, for me. 

Anyway, assuming I'm not missing something obvious, I'll just move on. I'm sure at this age they aren't going to implementing new control schemes, and most likely the game is designed around click-to-move. 

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