On Vilya it was a chore to find a group for epic content shortly after launch, unless you belonged to a large guild.  Lots of lotro players only log in 1-2 times a week and skipped most of the epic line.  I'm one of them and am glad I can at least now go through the storyline.

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

Doing the story line up to about book 10 was never to much of a problem, but after that it became near impossible to find a group as the quests were dated and there was no real reward for doing them. They added in the white horse as a reward for the last book, and that sparked some interest, but not enough.

I think this is a good idea coming from over playing a year in LOTRO. The epic story isnt needed to progress your character through the game, it is more of a side set that you can do if you would like. This gives players the opportunity to see the great cut scenes and the well written story that Turbine put together without the need to find a group.

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

No, it wasn't, and also, they are still there.

Its options they are giving people.

Why do you hate fun?

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

 

No, it wasn't, and also, they are still there.

 

Its options they are giving people.

Why do you hate fun?

 

 

It was nearly impossible before to find a group to do these. Now it's gonna be fully impossible.

Group content is more fun than solo content.

Until they make a mentoring system or cross-server LFG for instances, there's still gonna be problem with finding a group in a game oriented for end-game.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right.

 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

No they were not, where do you come up with this garbage?

I have yet to read a post made by you that doesn't immediately call your character into question. You seem uninformed, and quick to jump on the band wagon when you hear or read something elsewhere. Then you try to present it as fact, when it is fiction nine out of ten times.

Your posting history speaks for itself.

I am quite happy with these changes my kin is very helpful but I wish that I could do more on my own I am now 33+ and am finding it tough to find smooth content I can run through on my own.  Its a frustrating stopper to what is a good game.  Flame me all you will but my experience is my own and yours is yours.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

 

No, it wasn't, and also, they are still there.

 

Its options they are giving people.

Why do you hate fun?

 

 

 

It was nearly impossible before to find a group to do these. Now it's gonna be fully impossible.

Group content is more fun than solo content.

Until they make a mentoring system or cross-server LFG for instances, there's still gonna be problem with finding a group in a game oriented for end-game.

They already mentioned adding a mentoring system (Mentioned, not promised). Also, skirmishes are for any group make up of level 30 - 65.

Stop trying to paint everything as dire, and doom. This addition is them listening DIRECTLY to the player-base. Simply put when you enter a encounter like this, you will be offered a solo option. that's it. They removed NOTHING.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

Originally posted by Euphoryk

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

No they were not, where do you come up with this garbage?

I have yet to read a post made by you that doesn't immediately call your character into question. You seem uninformed, and quick to jump on the band wagon when you hear or read something elsewhere. Then you try to present it as fact, when it is fiction nine out of ten times.

Your posting history speaks for itself.

Sure, there's a gating content, which obviously is group-based. But what the heck, that's optional too. Crafting sucks? Well skip it, it's optional. You've got mages riding goats all over the Middle Earth? What the hell, it's optional, just turn off the graphics.
 

Originally posted by Thillian 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

WTF are you talking about now? Have you played the game? You can skip all the books if you want to. Its IS optional, dont confuse that with your personal goals.

I would recommend everyone do them though, they are a great bit of fun and story.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

 

WTF are you talking about now? Have you played the game? You can skip all the books if you want to. Its IS optional, dont confuse that with your personal goals.

I would recommend everyone do them though, they are a great bit of fun and story.

Ok following your logic, give me an example of something being non optional.
 

I think this is a GREAT idea.  Anytime a game offers more options on how to play, its a good thing in my eyes.  I've had to skip a few books here and there because I was stuck and I play at odd hours sometimes.  Now, I can go back and complete those books on my own. 

Every time I hear about something new they are bringing into SoM, I get excited.  I'm just loving the mount changes, the skirmishes sounds delicious, and now this.....All Hail Turbine.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

 

WTF are you talking about now? Have you played the game? You can skip all the books if you want to. Its IS optional, dont confuse that with your personal goals.

I would recommend everyone do them though, they are a great bit of fun and story.

Ok following your logic, give me an example of something being non optional.
 

Apparently, reading your inane LOTRO bashing posts that usually have zero base in reality.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

 

WTF are you talking about now? Have you played the game? You can skip all the books if you want to. Its IS optional, dont confuse that with your personal goals.

I would recommend everyone do them though, they are a great bit of fun and story.

Ok following your logic, give me an example of something being non optional.
 

Apparently, reading your inane LOTRO bashing posts that usually have zero base in reality.

 

No, seriously tell me. You said epic books in Lotro are optional. I said, of course everything is optional, but you paid for the content. You paid for the man hours, you expect to enjoy it fully. Skipping epic quest line is like skipping 100 hours in the game and thousands of man hours spent during development for it.

So I'm asking you again, give me an example of something being non-optional.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

 

WTF are you talking about now? Have you played the game? You can skip all the books if you want to. Its IS optional, dont confuse that with your personal goals.

I would recommend everyone do them though, they are a great bit of fun and story.

Ok following your logic, give me an example of something being non optional.
 

Me ignoring you is non-optional, now...

Playing this game is optional.  To me, the more options you have in a game makes it more playable.  What is wrong with options?

He hates options.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian 

Now you're talking like Donnie Brasco.
 

Of course everything is optional in your definition. You can stay level 1 and make a fool of yourself in Archet, because obviously leveling is optional.

If you paid for a game,you hope its content gonna suit you. You paid for those man hours to play it, not to skip it. Being something optional is simply not an argument in a mmorpg.

 

WTF are you talking about now? Have you played the game? You can skip all the books if you want to. Its IS optional, dont confuse that with your personal goals.

I would recommend everyone do them though, they are a great bit of fun and story.

Ok following your logic, give me an example of something being non optional.
 

Apparently, reading your inane LOTRO bashing posts that usually have zero base in reality.

 

 

No, seriously tell me. You said epic books in Lotro are optional. I said, of course everything is optional, but you paid for the content. You paid for the man hours, you expect to enjoy it fully. Skipping epic quest line is like skipping 100 hours in the game and thousands of man hours spent during development for it.

So I'm asking you again, give me an example of something being non-optional.

To take this full circle, if you were skipping them before due to time requirements to make a group. Now you do not have to.

Sup?

Dooom?

Hard to find a group for this and that? Well don't play it's optional. Don't like the crafting? Don't craft, it's optional. Don't like the gating system which forces you to grind to see the content? Well, skip it then, it's optional. Don't like the leveling system? Avoid it, roll a PvMP, because well leveling is optional. Don't like the combat? Don't worry, just ignore it, stay level 1 and dance in the Bree auction hall. Don't like to see mages raiding on goats all around Middle Earth? What's the problem man? Just turn off the graphics, because graphics are optional. Don't like the classes? Don't play any. Just stay on the login window, because logging in, is well .. optional.

Originally posted by Thillian

Hard to find a group for this and that? Well don't play it's optional. Don't like the crafting? Don't craft, it's optional. Don't like the gating system which forces you to grind to see the content? Well, skip it then, it's optional. Don't like the leveling system? Avoid it, roll a PvMP, because well leveling is optional. Don't like the combat? Don't worry, just ignore it, stay level 1 and dance in the Bree auction hall. Don't like to see mages raiding on goats all around Middle Earth? What's the problem man? Just turn off the graphics, because graphics are optional. Don't like the classes? Don't play any. Just stay on the login window, because logging in, is well .. optional.

Hyperbole, And missing the point.

I just wanted to add that I am still in the game I havent quit it may have read that way in my post.

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

Originally posted by Thillian

Hard to find a group for this and that? Well don't play it's optional. Don't like the crafting? Don't craft, it's optional. Don't like the gating system which forces you to grind to see the content? Well, skip it then, it's optional. Don't like the leveling system? Avoid it, roll a PvMP, because well leveling is optional. Don't like the combat? Don't worry, just ignore it, stay level 1 and dance in the Bree auction hall. Don't like to see mages raiding on goats all around Middle Earth? What's the problem man? Just turn off the graphics, because graphics are optional. Don't like the classes? Don't play any. Just stay on the login window, because logging in, is well .. optional.

Ummm, yeah.....what?

I have no idea what your argument is or why you are against this.  Do you even play the game?  More options give players more ways to play the game.  If they like to play the storyline in a group, then they can.  If they want to play solo, then they can.  I think more MMO's should offer more options to their player base.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

Solution to the problem that people have hard time finding a group for the content is not to make everything soloable. The solution is to motivate people to "help" others or to give them bigger pool of players to group up with (cross-server LFG system).

But that's too many man hours for too little profit, let's just make it all soloable, and pull out another paid expansion.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

Not all of the new zones have been only for high level. Infact most of the new content in SOM is for 30 - 65.

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

 

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

You just said you wanted to group, what is stopping you from being social, making some friends, and doing the content in a group? Like everything you said in your post?

The answer is nothing.

Oh, right! I'm sorry, you want others to be forced to play with you. I see.

 Great idea. One of the main problems that I had with this game is never being able to do story quests because I could never find a party.

Originally posted by junzo316

Me ignoring you is non-optional, now...

 

Obviously it's not if you replied to me 5 minutes after that.

My post was a reaction towards the other guy who said that "well don't play epic books, it's optional".

Btw, doesn't one of the moderator over at AoC EU forums have the same avatar picture as you?

Originally posted by Thillian

Solution to the problem that people have hard time finding a group for the content is not to make everything soloable. The solution is to motivate people to "help" others or to give them bigger pool of players to group up with (cross-server LFG system).

But that's too many man hours for too little profit, let's just make it all soloable, and pull out another paid expansion.

Right! why didn't they think of that?!?!

Its not like skirmishes are group based content that can be entered through a new GUI window that you can join from anywhere in the world or anything.

That would be silly.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

 

No, it wasn't, and also, they are still there.

 

Its options they are giving people.

Why do you hate fun?

 

 

 

It was nearly impossible before to find a group to do these. Now it's gonna be fully impossible.

Group content is more fun than solo content.

Until they make a mentoring system or cross-server LFG for instances, there's still gonna be problem with finding a group in a game oriented for end-game.

You assume then that LOTRO  contains absolutely no players who enjoy grping?

Is there a problem with having additonal modes added to any MMO to ensure that all playstyles are catered for.

I've been back and forth with LOTRO and to be quite frank it's never been impossible to find book grp's, I suspect that those who tell us it's "Impossible" just aren't really trying, or perhaps prefer to be asked rather than do the asking.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by junzo316

Me ignoring you is non-optional, now...

 

 

Obviously it's not if you replied to me 5 minutes after that.

My post was a reaction towards the other guy who said that "well don't play epic books, it's optional".

Btw, doesn't one of the moderator over at AoC EU forums have the same avatar picture as you?

Lol...no idea.  Have never played AoC.  Maybe he has the same Avatar as me.  =)

Grouping outside of kins in lotro seems to be kind of a pain to me. Most people only group to do quests and it is rough because rarely do people have all their quests lined up so you constantly have an influx and outflux of group member movement.

I personally can't really stand grouping in lotro because it trivializes everything you come across. I like the challenge of going it alone or with a single partner. I get the chance to use the moves i want and the strategy i want.

Making it possible to solo the earlier books in my opinion is a fantastic idea.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

 

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

You just said you wanted to group, what is stopping you from being social, making some friends, and doing the content in a group? Like everything you said in your post?

The answer is nothing.

 

So your first answer was pointless or just agreed with something I didnt wrote? Im getting quite confused here. So I put my words in a diffrent way. I want more group mechanisms in my mmo, that is why I like them. I see why Turbine are doing what they do with their game and I dont like it. 

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

 

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

You just said you wanted to group, what is stopping you from being social, making some friends, and doing the content in a group? Like everything you said in your post?

The answer is nothing.

 

So your first answer was pointless or just agreed with something I didnt wrote? Im getting quite confused here. So I put my words in a diffrent way. I want more group mechanisms in my mmo, that is why I like them. I see why Turbine are doing what they do with their game and I dont like it. 

 

You still have the option to do everything in your post, even more so now with skirmishes.

The only way to not have new areas only open to highest level players would be for each area to have its own low level, mid-level, and high level areas.  Each of these areas would also have to have their own epic quest lines.  (You could not, under this system, have a Gondorian man have to start outside of Archer, a town he would never have heard of).  Each area would also have to have the same types of appropriately levelled resource nodes.  In other words, each area would have to the "content density" of the original areas.

Now, let us consider what areas the game is expected to provided.  So far, we have Eriador, which has a dozen or so large map areas.  So, the devs would have to create Gondor and Rohan with at least that many areas.  Also, if the devs want to, they could expand the game world to include Northern Mirkwood and points east (Iron Hills, Erebor, Lake-Town).

So, to give everyone the same access to all areas would require Turbine to essentially construct and go public with 3 or 4 entire MMOs at the same time.  That is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Hyperbole, And missing the point.

Those jerks at Turbine are gating me from the Grand Stair.  I pay for the game just like everyone else, so I think my 10th level character should be able to do any of the instances I want!  Why does a level 60 have access to more of the game than I do?  We both pay the same money!!!

Also, why does Turbine make my character have to use a weapon when I fight?  There goes Turbine again, forcing their will on me...

Not only that, why do they make me log in in order to play my character?  Now it's exposed... just another linear gameplay WoW copy... Log in... Select a server, select a character, wait for a load screen.  JUST LIKE WOW. 

So tired of the linear gameplay.  Why can't I start at level 60 and work my way to level 1?  Forced progressive play... feh!!!  Why won't they let me play the game the way I want to play it????//????/?????/?/???

They're Nazi's I tell ya!  Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!1!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Hyperbole, And missing the point.

Those jerks at Turbine are gating me from the Grand Stair.  I pay for the game just like everyone else, so I think my 10th level character should be able to do any of the instances I want!  Why does a level 60 have access to more of the game than I do?  We both pay the same money!!!

Also, why does Turbine make my character have to use a weapon when I fight?  There goes Turbine again, forcing their will on me...

Not only that, why do they make me log in in order to play my character?  Now it's exposed... just another linear gameplay WoW copy... Log in... Select a server, select a character, wait for a load screen.  JUST LIKE WOW. 

So tired of the linear gameplay.  Why can't I start at level 60 and work my way to level 1?  Forced progressive play... feh!!!  Why won't they let me play the game the way I want to play it????//????/?????/?/???

They're Nazi's I tell ya!  Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!1!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!!!

The jerks!

Yeh but only, if its optional.

It's obvious from the upcoming Skirmish system and other developer notes that the future direction of LOTRO is scalable content, from solo player up to 12-man groups. Turbine has already stated that the upcoming Book 9 will be scalable this same way. The upcoming solo-only "super-buff" for the earlier book quests is just a band-aid so that they don't have to revisit the early content just yet, IMO.

Originally posted by Skooma2

The only way to not have new areas only open to highest level players would be for each area to have its own low level, mid-level, and high level areas.

That is not the only way :) A option I would like is that I had the option to create a avatar at max level. That is a option that is good for players, but not so good for Turbine.

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

I don't think I'm dumb but this reads like one of those posts where you are trying to sound super smart but not really saying anything.....

I don't want to overly dramatize it, but if there are crucial moments in which developments at large are changing, it is this. Sorta like D-Day for Europe, this is a bit of a water margin for MMOs. Why? Simple: we have seen a huge rise in Soloability, and story is still a relatively fresh and new element in MMOs, and - at least until SWTOR hits - something not yet fully developed. An element in its infancy.

Now what we see is, by and large that more and more people want to decide by themselves whether they want to solo or group in a MMO, something that so far was pre-set by the quests and mobs. This might be a turning point. A first step, in which at the end MMOs generally leave the choice in quests. This is so vital, because story will be the mayor innovative factor in MMOs in the coming decade. The one thing which differs old gen MMOs of "kill 20 of X" from really Role Playing MMOs.

This decision is both logical and regrettable. it is regrettable, because experiencing a story in a group is way more fun and excitement than alone. What is the heroic, triumph, what is the tragedy worth, when no one is there to share the moment with you? I think it cheapens those moments, when you have no one to remember it together. On the other hand, it is logical. I have tried to play the stories VERY meticiously in LOTRO, for one because I liked them a lot, and they are what makes LOTRO other than so many MMOs. The book quests. Its what attaches me to my char, and why in LOTRO unlike other MMOs I have only one really played out char. I am one hero in Middle Earth, feeling connected by the book stories. However, in the later days I too had GREAT difficulties to find people for the book quests, especially the more difficult and demanding ones, those which take a long time and much work. So I came to a point in Book 2 where I was forced to wait or skip. So it is, alas, a necessity, which will make it even more difficult to find people for book quests, because as experience shows, what CAN be soloed WILL be soloed by most. Its a bad circle.

For good or ill, I think this is the margin of a paradigm change.

I left LOTRO early on because of this issue. In the beginning, there weren't many solo quests once you hit 30, and finding groups at the times I played was insanely hard. Not only that, you had to find groups that were  willing to go back and redo 3 steps they'd already done to get to Step #4 which half the group wanted to get to Step #5 which the other half really wanted to do, or have a kinship that was full of willing and helpful people who didn't mind repeating content 5000 times.

This "forced grouping" cost LOTRO at least 1 subscriber (me). I'm sure it cost them many thousands in reality. Because I played a Hunter, I was even at a bigger disadvantage as being a non-desired class.

And you had all the problems of groups, and then some. Person A would leave because he got the mission he needed, and didn't want to continue, person B selected to replace him was 30 minutes on foot away... and disconnects 25 minutes later, person C chosen to replace B doesn't want to do that quest, but rather needs the previous 3 quests....

So this change is an awesome one for the average gamer who has a life outside of the game. To those who think everything must be paid for by waiting 10 hours in LFF for each mission, a big /rude to you. You can still play the game that way. I no longer would have to (and yes, it is tempting me to resub for LOTRO, because I did enjoy the game outside of the silly grouping requirements). And the game is Lord of the Ring (the ONE SOLO ;) ring).. not Fellowship All The Time.

Originally posted by GaryM

It's obvious from the upcoming Skirmish system and other developer notes that the future direction of LOTRO is scalable content, from solo player up to 12-man groups. Turbine has already stated that the upcoming Book 9 will be scalable this same way. The upcoming solo-only "super-buff" for the earlier book quests is just a band-aid so that they don't have to revisit the early content just yet, IMO.

My chief concern is that they end up going CoX on it.  Gotta admit, my eye twitches a bit when I see the word "randomized" sprinkled through the Dev logs.  Other than that, it's lookin' like I get 2 christmases, this year... 

Originally posted by Elikal 

I don't want to overly dramatize it, but if there are crucial moments in which developments at large are changing, it is this. Sorta like D-Day for Europe, this is a bit of a water margin for MMOs. Why? Simple: we have seen a huge rise in Soloability, and story is still a relatively fresh and new element in MMOs, and - at least until SWTOR hits - something not yet fully developed. An element in its infancy.

........

For good or ill, I think this is the margin of a paradigm change.

I liked your post. I wish I could express myself as good as you, but my english is not near as good.

And Ive to say that I agree with what you wrote. I believe it was the last words that caught me-  paradigm change is not something you read to often in this dark corner of the internet :) 

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Elikal 

I don't want to overly dramatize it, but if there are crucial moments in which developments at large are changing, it is this. Sorta like D-Day for Europe, this is a bit of a water margin for MMOs. Why? Simple: we have seen a huge rise in Soloability, and story is still a relatively fresh and new element in MMOs, and - at least until SWTOR hits - something not yet fully developed. An element in its infancy.

........

For good or ill, I think this is the margin of a paradigm change.

 

I liked your post. I wish I could express myself as good as you, but my english is not near as good.

And Ive to say that I agree with what you wrote. I believe it was the last words that caught me-  paradigm change is not something you read to often in this dark corner of the internet :) 

Yeh I agree with Elikal's post as well. Shame it's gonna be buried soon by tons of mindless posts including this one.

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

Not true there are raids in LOTRO like any other game (I assume you don't play so wonder why you are commenting) and the article clearly states that many new players are having a hard time finding groups for the book quests so what difference does it possibly make? Even if what you said was true this particular group content is not being complete because players are having a hard time finding people to even group to do the content it is just not being experienced and it is also very clear they are adding a mode that allows people to do this content it does not take away the ability to group to do the quests.

  Why is it so often that devs are villified for giving there players options?  I heard the mmo community complain about the quest locator which is a totally optional feature and even if we work on the same quest and I have it on and you don't you won't see it yet people just complained to no end when they had no expectation to use it if they chose not to.

  MMOs are the only @$$ backwards thing I can think of where people swear less is more, it's often as if people truly expect companies to continue to release Shadowbane,EQ,Ultima with a new skin on it and never actually advance the genre forward.  It's how you know there are far too many arm chair devs in the community and why sometimes one can appreciate the WOW community over those who play less commercial offerings.

This is a great move for new folks who haven't established good friends and a quality Kinship. It can be frustrating wanting to see the best content of the game, but having to LFF to find a fellowship. Most PUGs in this game are awesome by the way, but even still, sometimes you'd just rather not mess with folks you don't know.

The most fun of this game will always be playing with friends you know and trust, same as any MMO, but this game is especially that way.

Originally posted by eric_w66

I left LOTRO early on because of this issue. In the beginning, there weren't many solo quests once you hit 30, and finding groups at the times I played was insanely hard. Not only that, you had to find groups that were  willing to go back and redo 3 steps they'd already done to get to Step #4 which half the group wanted to get to Step #5 which the other half really wanted to do, or have a kinship that was full of willing and helpful people who didn't mind repeating content 5000 times.

This "forced grouping" cost LOTRO at least 1 subscriber (me). I'm sure it cost them many thousands in reality. Because I played a Hunter, I was even at a bigger disadvantage as being a non-desired class.

And you had all the problems of groups, and then some. Person A would leave because he got the mission he needed, and didn't want to continue, person B selected to replace him was 30 minutes on foot away... and disconnects 25 minutes later, person C chosen to replace B doesn't want to do that quest, but rather needs the previous 3 quests....

So this change is an awesome one for the average gamer who has a life outside of the game. To those who think everything must be paid for by waiting 10 hours in LFF for each mission, a big /rude to you. You can still play the game that way. I no longer would have to (and yes, it is tempting me to resub for LOTRO, because I did enjoy the game outside of the silly grouping requirements). And the game is Lord of the Ring (the ONE SOLO ;) ring).. not Fellowship All The Time.

 

I remember one night, I required the very end of one book, can't remember which.  Everyone else I could get required earlier chapters.  So we'd do them, and several times, people had to leave before we got the final done, and we'd have to replace them and sure enough, that person also had to do those earlier quests.  Rinse, repeat.  Frustrating.  Several hours later, I had to go, still having not finished the final chapter.

The reality is, few people have several hours to themselves to run one of the books from start to finish.  Even if you're just going through the group parts.  So, as a developer, you have to accomodate those who don't have that kind of time in order to keep them.  The only thing they could do further to encourage grouping would be to port everyone directly into the instance from anywhere; so you could set your "LFF Book 5, C5", join up and end up right there ASAP.  In and out.  No muss, no fuss.  Unfortunately, exploitation would ensue, not to mention it kinda blows the epic-ness, not having to ride up to the foreboding entrance, IMO.

So the next best option is to set up a solo option.  And it's the easiest way to go, development-wise.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

 Not all of the new zones have been only for high level. Infact most of the new content in SOM is for 30 - 65.

So FAR all the new zones have been for high level. SOM hasn't launched yet. And while I'm sure there is new content across the board, the new zones themselves are for high-levels, since low-levels can't get through Moria, no?

Originally posted by Elikal

This decision is both logical and regrettable. it is regrettable, because experiencing a story in a group is way more fun and excitement than alone. What is the heroic, triumph, what is the tragedy worth, when no one is there to share the moment with you?

Maybe but not all the time.

I remember so many times in Guild Wars when the group wanted to skip the cut scenes. I also remember in DDO when going through a dungeon or quest was essentially blazing through it because the participants had already done it. Leaving me to just tag along at their fast clip.

And in LOTRO when I as still reading the last npc's quest text and everyone had already clicked and left the instance.\

I think it takes a group of like minded people to experience quests in a group and to fully take advantage of that.

This change in LOTRO will actually enable me to experience the rest of the main quest. Actually, most of it.

It's not within my personality to shout for groups. If asked I will go and will most likely enjoy it on some level depending on the group, but in the end, if there is no group available I always find something else to do with my time.

Now, this is not to say that I think all group content should be made soloable to bow to my whim. On the contrary, my attitude has always been that I will go without because that is the price I pay for not being proactive about grouping.

My thought is that this is a good thing for my playstyle but they really should enable different and interesting rewards for players who do want to group in order to encourage grouping.

It's funny that this is happening because along with the other voices on forums that asked for this, I had come out and blatantly stated that this was something that I would have liked when I spoke with Steefel at Pax.

It actually gives me a reason to subscribe which of course is probably a huge plus for Turbine as they are probably counting on people who never did the group main quests to actually join for the chance to experience the game. Still, I can't help feel that something was lost with this.

Grouping or soloing should be a decision not something that another has to endure because there is no other way.

They are revamping the older content as well. So in effect it is new content for the lower levels. All the starting areas have been redone, except the Shire I think. Lonelands is getting a revamp soon I believe. But the older content in LOTRO, for the most part, is really good I thought.  North Downs and Trollshaws are freakin awesome, Forochel is badass too. Wait till you see those mammoths.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Elikal 

I don't want to overly dramatize it, but if there are crucial moments in which developments at large are changing, it is this. Sorta like D-Day for Europe, this is a bit of a water margin for MMOs. Why? Simple: we have seen a huge rise in Soloability, and story is still a relatively fresh and new element in MMOs, and - at least until SWTOR hits - something not yet fully developed. An element in its infancy.

........

For good or ill, I think this is the margin of a paradigm change.

 

I liked your post. I wish I could express myself as good as you, but my english is not near as good.

And Ive to say that I agree with what you wrote. I believe it was the last words that caught me-  paradigm change is not something you read to often in this dark corner of the internet :) 

 

Yeh I agree with Elikal's post as well. Shame it's gonna be buried soon by tons of mindless posts including this one.

I agree too, as far as other MMOs go, but Lotro is a different kind of MMO. First of all, it has alot of themepark tendancies, but not so much that you are streamlined, you can go off and explore stuff and the RPG potential is the best of any game out there, but for the most part it is about the story. The gameplay/combat is good, but the quest, story and amazing graphics are what really make this game top notch.
 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Elikal

This decision is both logical and regrettable. it is regrettable, because experiencing a story in a group is way more fun and excitement than alone. What is the heroic, triumph, what is the tragedy worth, when no one is there to share the moment with you?

 

Maybe but not all the time.

I remember so many times in Guild Wars when the group wanted to skip the cut scenes. I also remember in DDO when going through a dungeon or quest was essentially blazing through it because the participants had already done it. Leaving me to just tag along at their fast clip.

And in LOTRO when I as still reading the last npc's quest text and everyone had already clicked and left the instance.\

I think it takes a group of like minded people to experience quests in a group and to fully take advantage of that.

This change in LOTRO will actually enable me to experience the rest of the main quest. Actually, most of it.

It's not within my personality to shout for groups. If asked I will go and will most likely enjoy it on some level depending on the group, but in the end, if there is no group available I always find something else to do with my time.

Now, this is not to say that I think all group content should be made soloable to bow to my whim. On the contrary, my attitude has always been that I will go without because that is the price I pay for not being proactive about grouping.

My thought is that this is a good thing for my playstyle but they really should enable different and interesting rewards for players who do want to group in order to encourage grouping.

It's funny that this is happening because along with the other voices on forums that asked for this, I had come out and blatantly stated that this was something that I would have liked when I spoke with Steefel at Pax.

It actually gives me a reason to subscribe which of course is probably a huge plus for Turbine as they are probably counting on people who never did the group main quests to actually join for the chance to experience the game. Still, I can't help feel that something was lost with this.

Grouping or soloing should be a decision not something that another has to endure because there is no other way.

Awesome reply and it's often the way I think I have done two raids in LOTRO and honestly those two I had to get drug kicking and screaming.  For me it is more a point of not wanting to feel so "important" to what others in game are trying to accomplish and also the fact that for some reason the mental timer in my head immediately kicks in when in an instance/raid group so much so that the content feels most like a chore and less like fun even with the radiant carrot dangled at the end.  I find myself wanting nothing more than to not be playing the minute I get in an instance/raid but I don't feel I am entitled to that content on the contrary I think since raiders and such go through something I find so excruciating they deserve that extra carrot.

And lastly you are right to group or solo should be a choice made by that indivudual player.  I don't begrudge those who feel no need to play an mmo solo and would hope in time that the sentiment that seems to exist the other way would change.

Thank God ( or Iluvatar anyway.)! As a Hunter there'ld be days I'd spend teleporting all over Middle Earth trying to find groups  to do various open Books ( granted I'm on Firefoot). I imagine for a non-Hunter it would be incredibly difficult.

I'm very hopeful about this. It took me weeks to find a group to finish 1.15.12 (and I'm currently experiencing the same problem with 2.8.3). Not many players are interested in completeing the book quests anymore. It's all about rad gear and legendary items now. When the level cap was 50, the rewards given out for completeing the epic quests were quite desirable. But with level caps approching 65, legendary items and radiance gear, the general consensus is that the epic book group quests are just not worth the time and effort for the outdated rewards offered.  However, for those players who still want to complete the epic quest arc (like me), any option that allows me to work on those quests at MY convenience (and no longer have to hope and pray I can find 5 other players who are also looking for a fellowship) is a big plus.

I'm going to give you Lord of the Rings to read.  Except, before I give it to you I'm going to rip out Chapter 12 "Flight to the Fords" in Book 1; and I'm going to rip out Chapter 5 "The Ride of the Rohirrim" in Book 5.   The only way you can read these chapters I've torn out is too gather 5 friends and read it together.  But as an added challenge, they have to be the right types of friends, and I'll be the judge of that. You can't all be of the same Class of readers -- you can't all be Tolkien Loremasters. You'll need at least one Louis Lamour Tank, and a Rober E. Howard Champion, and perhaps a Harlequin Romance Author Minstrel (doesn't matter who, we just need ONE!)...but I'll not allow any Tom Clancy Hunters into the group because their pages per second (PPS) sucks these days......

So yeah, I think Orion's solution for LoTRO's Epic line can work to solve these bottlenecks.  Still PLENTY of group content. Plenty. Not only PLENTY, but the group content remains the best in the game by far.

As a final observation, I find it fascinating that those who most ardently support forced grouping are the very people with whom I'd least like to group.

Originally posted by Elikal

I don't want to overly dramatize it, but if there are crucial moments in which developments at large are changing, it is this. Sorta like D-Day for Europe, this is a bit of a water margin for MMOs. Why? Simple: we have seen a huge rise in Soloability, and story is still a relatively fresh and new element in MMOs, and - at least until SWTOR hits - something not yet fully developed. An element in its infancy.

Now what we see is, by and large that more and more people want to decide by themselves whether they want to solo or group in a MMO, something that so far was pre-set by the quests and mobs. This might be a turning point. A first step, in which at the end MMOs generally leave the choice in quests. This is so vital, because story will be the mayor innovative factor in MMOs in the coming decade. The one thing which differs old gen MMOs of "kill 20 of X" from really Role Playing MMOs.

This decision is both logical and regrettable. it is regrettable, because experiencing a story in a group is way more fun and excitement than alone. What is the heroic, triumph, what is the tragedy worth, when no one is there to share the moment with you? I think it cheapens those moments, when you have no one to remember it together. On the other hand, it is logical. I have tried to play the stories VERY meticiously in LOTRO, for one because I liked them a lot, and they are what makes LOTRO other than so many MMOs. The book quests. Its what attaches me to my char, and why in LOTRO unlike other MMOs I have only one really played out char. I am one hero in Middle Earth, feeling connected by the book stories. However, in the later days I too had GREAT difficulties to find people for the book quests, especially the more difficult and demanding ones, those which take a long time and much work. So I came to a point in Book 2 where I was forced to wait or skip. So it is, alas, a necessity, which will make it even more difficult to find people for book quests, because as experience shows, what CAN be soloed WILL be soloed by most. Its a bad circle.

 

For good or ill, I think this is the margin of a paradigm change.

Well thought out post. But I think you are being a bit over dramatic. This one change isn't spelling the doom of grouping for the entire industry.  Yes, SWTOR might be that paradigm shift, but not this change to a line of quests that reside in Volume 1. 

I will also nit-pick with your assertion that experiencing the story in a group is way more fun and exciting than alone.  This assertion is not universal. While I have had some fun times with my Kinsman, I have also been frustrated in other grouping situations where everyone is running through the quest so fast that I don't have time to read the NPC dialogues, or fully take in the graphical content. Everyone rushes through it.  An even more frustrating thing is going into a quest fresh with people who've done it a dozen or even a few times and so they KNOW every little thing that must be done -- there's no sense of adventure in that for the newbie going through. That for me is a huge turnoff when experiencing new content.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

 Not all of the new zones have been only for high level. Infact most of the new content in SOM is for 30 - 65.

So FAR all the new zones have been for high level. SOM hasn't launched yet. And while I'm sure there is new content across the board, the new zones themselves are for high-levels, since low-levels can't get through Moria, no?

 

If you get right down to it. The books themselves were written with levels. They start out with the hobbits as simple folk that never do anything but live their daily lives. You then start to progress with the ring leaving the shire and the encounters getting more and more difficult as you move further away from the shire and get closer to mordor. You see this with the Lotro leveling maps.

The fact that the game is a leveling game requires the new areas to be for higher level players. That is what a leveling game is all about. This is not a sandbox game obviously. This type of leveling is not for everyone, but this game is what it is. They try to add to all levels with free content and expansions. But what will keep the game going is a new high level area with each new expansion. Always moving closer to Mordor and the end of the books.

As far as the changes with the book content. I think it is a great idea. I have played off and on starting with open beta. I still have not completed all the books with any of my characters. I get stuck with 8+ do to my play times and never getting a full group. I don't care about the rewards or xp. I would just like to see the epic book stories as the dev's have written them. It is one of the best parts of the game. I don't want a SPG MMO, but following the story in a story driven game is important to me. The OPTION to solo if I can't get a group will be nice.

Well Orion has been on a personal I got to fix the lone lands for the past 6 month.  He saw the content he so loving designed and most folks bypassed it due to how hard it was.  He is redesigning the entire area hopeing folks will run the content.

The problem is most folks are not going to rerun level 30 content,  they tried to make folks do that about a year back with triumph marks, the went over like a lead balloon when the marks got you junk rewards.

So now they are going to try it again in a different way.

The problem is the book content is level spacific, most folks hated it,  They did it on one toon then found out hey I don't kneed to books to level.  That is the real problem. Nobody likes running content that is so hard you have multi wipes durring it, and nobody like crappy quest reward that just get sold for vender trash.

I don't see this changing how book content is run,  most of your level 60's are either casuall and book content dont matter, or they are hard core raiders, and that will not entice them either.

Your still going to have the problem.  Book content is just not run, not now and not after this.  Most folks will bypass what they do not need.

I'm sorry but for most of you Turbine can do no wrong. Giving people options isn't always a good idea. LOTRO may as well be a single player game with some online capabilities because that is all it will be if they allow players to solo through most of it.

They may as well admit defeat and say they have no solution to these problems. Who's going to bother looking for a group when you can just do it on your own?

Originally posted by pb1285n

I'm sorry but for most of you Turbine can do no wrong. Giving people options isn't always a good idea. LOTRO may as well be a single player game with some online capabilities because that is all it will be if they allow players to solo through most of it.

They may as well admit defeat and say they have no solution to these problems. Who's going to bother looking for a group when you can just do it on your own?

And it was such a financially disastrous decision for Blizzard to allow players to solo most of the way through WoW.   Sorry, I group because I enjoy the people I selectively group with, not because a game forces me to.  There's still plenty of content in LoTRO that requires grouping, and as I said, it is the best content in the game. Allow the early epic lines to be solo'd isn't going to destroy the game.

Originally posted by pb1285n

They may as well admit defeat and say they have no solution to these problems.

Au contraire.

Here's a solution - update the rewards and make them worthy of the quest. If it 's an epic arc, make the loot epic as well. Offer a class-specific First-Age Legendary Item or a radiance gear coin for completing all the quests in all the books. You might be amazed how quickly players will group to do book quests again.

Grab us by the loot and our hearts and minds will follow.  ;)

Originally posted by TarotMage

Originally posted by pb1285n

They may as well admit defeat and say they have no solution to these problems.

Au contraire.

Here's a solution - update the rewards and make them worthy of the quest. If it 's an epic arc, make the loot epic as well. Offer a class-specific First-Age Legendary Item or a radiance gear coin for completing all the quests in all the books. You might be amazed how quickly players will group to do book quests again.

Grab us by the loot and our hearts and minds will follow.  ;)

With SOM all instances now have secondary (random and some class based) objectives that grant rewards. And there are rewards for doing all the books int he deeds. ALSO, scurmish points can be traided for class quest items ( Skirmishes start at 30)

This is the feature I have been waiting for. I left LOTRO a few months ago because I could not complete the epic quest line by myself. Its not that I don't like grouping, I do, but night after night I'd try and get a group to do some of the epic content to no avail. I was stuck. Yeah, I could do side quests and move ahead, and I did that sometimes, but I didn't want to.

I can only play a few mights a week for maybe an hour at a time. So while my kinnies are raiding in Moria, I'm still running around the North Downs. It was frustrating. This change can get me to come back.

Where did you get that screenshot  MR  Bloodsworth!!  I have not seen that in live.

Originally posted by Thillian

 You've got mages riding goats all over the Middle Earth?
 

I get the impression that you find it absurd that a mage would ride a goat. This has me curious - for the sake of understanding your reality - what do mages ride in your world? The reason I ask is because if I saw a mage riding past me on the street I probably wouldn't be saying, "That's odd. That mage was on a goat," I'd be saying "Holy shit, I just saw a fucking wizard!"

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

I don't think I'm dumb but this reads like one of those posts where you are trying to sound super smart but not really saying anything.....

Maybe you're not dumb but you're clearly can't be too sharp if you think I'm not saying anything. Maybe my normal intelligence seems like super intelligence to you because its so far beyond you, or did you deliberately miss my point just to have an transparently pointless excuse to attack me?

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

You know, just because something is soloable doesn't mean you have to do it solo.  Just find some friends and do it as a group.  Or watch for people who are wanting a group for quests you've already done and help them.  Not everyone in the group has to have the quest, so if you're just looking for group activity then it should be easy to find.  I've found that most of my lotro friendships have come not from getting into a PUG for whatever group quest I happen to be on, but from questing with the same people over a long period of time.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

With the exception of Ultima Online, I can't really think of a game where a player just starting out can make their way to or through almost every area of the map.  This is just the nature of games where character advancement is made through levelling.

 If you're playing LoTRO, and you're not doing the storyline quests, I think you should really question WHY you are playing LoTRO given how central the story is to the whole experience. "phat lewt" should not be something that need to bait you with. 

Originally posted by Drockarius

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

 

You know, just because something is soloable doesn't mean you have to do it solo.  Just find some friends and do it as a group.  Or watch for people who are wanting a group for quests you've already done and help them.  Not everyone in the group has to have the quest, so if you're just looking for group activity then it should be easy to find.  I've found that most of my lotro friendships have come not from getting into a PUG for whatever group quest I happen to be on, but from questing with the same people over a long period of time.

Yes I know that I dont need to do them solo. But that is not the problem you see. I for one plays mmo becuse I want to team up and when we have a game that offers a solo or group solution we all know what option most guys will pick.

And my experince with pugs is diffrent than yours. The friends Ive found in the game is by doing random stuff in pugs and then Ive teamed up with the same players later on in the game and slowly we have gotten to know each other as players. And thats mostly becuse Im fun to play with and most pugs do need a kind healer. So our game experince is diffrent and its fun to see that becuse then you can play the game with two diffrent mind sets- we have options in the game. 

Originally posted by Drockarius

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

 With the exception of Ultima Online, I can't really think of a game where a player just starting out can make their way to or through almost every area of the map.  This is just the nature of games where character advancement is made through levelling.

I don't mean to say you should be able to make your way through the whole map on your own. Clearly a low level char should get eaten alive in Moria. But in LoTRO you couldn't even be escorted through. The areas are locked out to lower levels. And if that trend continues you have a stratification of the playerbase.The difference between LoTRO and other games is that in LoTRO we weren't given a world map that's been added onto with new stuff. We were given a small part of a whole map that most are probably familiar with. The potential problem (assuming things contintue the way they have) is that later areas due to lore that are probably a hell of a lot more awesome than Bree, but are (presumably) non-combat community centers, for example, Gondor are going to be shut out for a significant % of the playerbase due to level restrictions. And that seems a shame. To me at least.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Thillian

 You've got mages riding goats all over the Middle Earth?
 

 

I get the impression that you find it absurd that a mage would ride a goat. This has me curious - for the sake of understanding your reality - what do mages ride in your world? The reason I ask is because if I saw a mage riding past me on the street I probably wouldn't be saying, "That's odd. That mage was on a goat," I'd be saying "Holy shit, I just saw a fucking wizard!"

The fact that he's a wizard wouldn't probably be as obvious as the other fact, that well someone is riding a goat at 2pm on a street. So my first thought would definetly be, wow there's a lunatic riding a goat, which makes weird gestures with his fingers.

Originally posted by pb1285n

I'm sorry but for most of you Turbine can do no wrong. Giving people options isn't always a good idea. LOTRO may as well be a single player game with some online capabilities because that is all it will be if they allow players to solo through most of it.

They may as well admit defeat and say they have no solution to these problems. Who's going to bother looking for a group when you can just do it on your own?

I suspect that if they did what you might suggest, I will have seen them to do great wrong.

i did try playing LOTRO several months ago, and it really is a good game, in the end though, i did leave because finding groups, as a new player, was just too frustrating. the solo option, is perhaps one answer to this problem, but its not one that i would find acceptable. i dont choose to play a mmo, to end up playing what amounts to being a single player game, grouping is what makes a game fun, lack of it quickly becomes boring. i really think a mentoring option would have been a more realistic solution.

Originally posted by Phry

i did try playing LOTRO several months ago, and it really is a good game, in the end though, i did leave because finding groups, as a new player, was just too frustrating. the solo option, is perhaps one answer to this problem, but its not one that i would find acceptable. i dont choose to play a mmo, to end up playing what amounts to being a single player game, grouping is what makes a game fun, lack of it quickly becomes boring. i really think a mentoring option would have been a more realistic solution.

This is ONLY for the book quests.

If LOTRO was a single player offline game, it would be the greatest single player RPG of all time.

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Drockarius

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

 

You know, just because something is soloable doesn't mean you have to do it solo.  Just find some friends and do it as a group.  Or watch for people who are wanting a group for quests you've already done and help them.  Not everyone in the group has to have the quest, so if you're just looking for group activity then it should be easy to find.  I've found that most of my lotro friendships have come not from getting into a PUG for whatever group quest I happen to be on, but from questing with the same people over a long period of time.

Yes I know that I dont need to do them solo. But that is not the problem you see. I for one plays mmo becuse I want to team up and when we have a game that offers a solo or group solution we all know what option most guys will pick.

And my experince with pugs is diffrent than yours. The friends Ive found in the game is by doing random stuff in pugs and then Ive teamed up with the same players later on in the game and slowly we have gotten to know each other as players. And thats mostly becuse Im fun to play with and most pugs do need a kind healer. So our game experince is diffrent and its fun to see that becuse then you can play the game with two diffrent mind sets- we have options in the game. 

well this is interesting - i see only 2 possibilities:

either most (or at least really significent portion) of the (particular) mmorpg players feel this way, then i dont understand, how you could have problem finding group, when most (or at least really significent portion) of the players also prefer to group over playing solo

or

most (or at least really significent portion) of the (particular) mmorpg players enjoy playing solo (and it has not to be all the time) and in that case you are minority which is trying to FORCE their play style on majority of players

as for myself - i am really glad for this - i stopped playing lotro few months after it got out since i in those days enjoyed playing other games more and didnt have time to play also lotro. i came back like half a year back and i had/still have BIG problems to find groups for epic book quests (and also for my champion class quest in moria :( ).

I think that story quests and class quests should be playable solo, so anyone can enjoy them.

On the other hand, some people on MyLotro made (in discussion under Orion's blogpost) interesting point that I also agree with - middleearth and lotr always was about friendship, cooperation and "divided we fall" feeling. therefore part of the story quests should be group ones - but if you cannt (or simply dont want to) get group, you should have option to run these quests with some NPC group. (which of course would mean much more developement work, but maybe we will once get this option instead of heroic buff)

Originally posted by ghettobooste

If LOTRO was a single player offline game, it would be the greatest single player RPG of all time.

It would be crap, just like any single player game that tries to use MMO mechanics. However, it would be slightly better, as it has a story. That parts true.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Phry

i did try playing LOTRO several months ago, and it really is a good game, in the end though, i did leave because finding groups, as a new player, was just too frustrating. the solo option, is perhaps one answer to this problem, but its not one that i would find acceptable. i dont choose to play a mmo, to end up playing what amounts to being a single player game, grouping is what makes a game fun, lack of it quickly becomes boring. i really think a mentoring option would have been a more realistic solution.

 

This is ONLY for the book quests.

the lack of grouping at the admittedly low level i was, was general, it meant i couldnt progress through the 'books' either. i dont find solo grinding stuff fun either funnily enough, whether its the book quests or general adventuring outside of the instances.

Great idea. One of my biggest pet peeves that I had with this game is never being able to do most story quests because I could never find a party who wanted to do them. No one cared enough to even help or group up.

I am very happy to read this. I am a complete soloer. I have made it through level 38 so far and parts of the epic but it will be great to do more of it! Thank you Turbine.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Thillian

 You've got mages riding goats all over the Middle Earth?
 

 

I get the impression that you find it absurd that a mage would ride a goat. This has me curious - for the sake of understanding your reality - what do mages ride in your world? The reason I ask is because if I saw a mage riding past me on the street I probably wouldn't be saying, "That's odd. That mage was on a goat," I'd be saying "Holy shit, I just saw a fucking wizard!"

 

The fact that he's a wizard wouldn't probably be as obvious as the other fact, that well someone is riding a goat at 2pm on a street. So my first thought would definetly be, wow there's a lunatic riding a goat, which makes weird gestures with his fingers.

Good point.

Honestly, I dislike this solution for a great many reasons.

I would *much* rather they changed two things:

1. If you've done the story chapter on any character, you are credited it for *all* characters (Not exp and items, but in terms of deeds and unlocks - having to do the "story" over and over on multiple characters just sucks)

2a. Made all the old content (pre-moria), available from say a storyteller series in Bree-->Rivendell/Evendim that let you play through all the old encounters in flashback mode to get storyline/deed credit for them.

or!

2b. made all the old group story credit accessible from storytellers in rivendell/moria/lothlorien and updated the "assist" system so you could earn the same tokens dropping from the skirmish or 60th+ dungeon system for helping others complete them.