The squirrels are black because they're Canadian, eh :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_squirrel

You know...LotRO has become exactly what many on the old Middle-earth Online forums and those from the early days of the LotRO forums hoped it would never become. LotRO has become a grind and it's no longer fun to play. Granted, the game is absolutely beautiful. To walk Middle-earth and stand where our favorite hobbits have stood, or to venture into an evil dark place and feel the power of Sauron is exceptional.

But...I've grown weary of going out and killing 10 orcs, then going back and tearing down 10 baracades, then going back and buring 10 totems, then going back and killing more orcs, then going back and killing the orc leader...only to get a weapon for any class other than the one I'm playing. LoTRO is a grind.

In addition, the developers have made LotRO an exclusionary game where everyone except those in raiding kinships are unable to fully experience the game. You need certain armor that is exceptionally difficult to get to even get into some of the instances without dying...and that's without ever seeing the end boss. Crafting has improved, but still is all but useless.

I'm very sad at how LotRO has evolved over the last year. Fortunately, when the player base screams, Turbine has (in the past) listened. They revamped all of the game to make it more solo friendly for which they should be applauded. I only hope that this expansion and future explansions can bring LotRO back to meet its original goal. If not, then I will likely only play LotRO when I'm bored and am not sleepy enough to go to bed.

This is starting to sound like its traveling down the same tired road and other MMO expansions  more levels and more raiding

well what if you dont like raiding?

I was really looking foward to moria  but I was dissapointed because all it turned out to be was more track at the end of the rail

same mobs, same AI  just "bigger rats" to kill  what happened to creativity and innovation?  moria could have been so much more than just a cave filled with mobs  not all of us like WOW style game play

Im more for depth and immersion  where players actions can make a difference

slippery ice has allways been on my list

moria water slides or  ore cart (roller coaster) taxi 

animal pets  

much better forragables  

I play a hunter  and my level 60 hunter has been in cold storage because  all there is to do Is raid,  I left WOW for the same reason when my paladin maxed out

I dont want to do something that is just gonna reset every 5 minutes  you dont have to make lotro static

where are the boats? (evendim is NOT a boat)   siege weapons? 

LOTRO is going down hill in its quality content  and I think it started with that insult to players, fishing

dont get me wrong  moris wasnt a bad expansion  it just left me bleh 

im also hoping that mirk will add bag space to deal with all the rep items and craft items and legend items ect ect ect

and also revamp the player housing so there more usefull than just another vault  especially the stiff item hooks

Originally posted by Jorel

You know...LotRO has become exactly what many on the old Middle-earth Online forums and those from the early days of the LotRO forums hoped it would never become. LotRO has become a grind and it's no longer fun to play. Granted, the game is absolutely beautiful. To walk Middle-earth and stand where our favorite hobbits have stood, or to venture into an evil dark place and feel the power of Sauron is exceptional.

But...I've grown weary of going out and killing 10 orcs, then going back and tearing down 10 baracades, then going back and buring 10 totems, then going back and killing more orcs, then going back and killing the orc leader...only to get a weapon for any class other than the one I'm playing. LoTRO is a grind.

In addition, the developers have made LotRO an exclusionary game where everyone except those in raiding kinships are unable to fully experience the game. You need certain armor that is exceptionally difficult to get to even get into some of the instances without dying...and that's without ever seeing the end boss. Crafting has improved, but still is all but useless.

I'm very sad at how LotRO has evolved over the last year. Fortunately, when the player base screams, Turbine has (in the past) listened. They revamped all of the game to make it more solo friendly for which they should be applauded. I only hope that this expansion and future explansions can bring LotRO back to meet its original goal. If not, then I will likely only play LotRO when I'm bored and am not sleepy enough to go to bed.

I suppose my first question to you is what did you expect out of Lord of theh Rings Online? DId you want a pure exploration game, where perhaps there was some incidental combat but the primary focus on just going out an seeing the world? I guess a game like that would be...okay. For a while. But as with all games I have played where the focus is on seeing all of the content it gets old withing the first few weeks. As gorgeous as Middle Earth is, if there were nothing there for us to do then it would have shut down years ago. I feel like Turbine has struck a very nice balance. Of course, this is all my opinion. If YOU don't enjoy playing it because YOU feel it is a grind, that's not necessarily Turbine's problem. It is that carrot that a game company holds in front of you that motivates you, that feeling that there is something just ahead that will be great to explore. Granted, Turbine may have put that carrot a little too far ahead with Mines of Moria, but multiple developers have come out and said that all the issues players have brought up, be it with radiance or legendary items, are being looked at and solutions are on their way to help ensure more people enjoy as much of the content as possible.

I suppose the ultimate irony is that individuals all feel that they are the only gauge with which companies should measure their products. When I don't like the way the game is going, it is clearly becoming a disaster and throngs of players will leave the game with me in agreement! But when they revamp content to make it the way I like it, the company should be applauded, as the throngs shall returneth.

P.S. - I am a non-raider who plays about 14-20 hours a week and generally does solo content except where required.

It is true that LOTRO had moved away from being casual. And sadly away from being RPG story rich.

Its maturing more and more into WOW-ish , grind raid oriented game.

But it does not undermine that the game is just oozing with atmosphere, and brilliant design.

I would purchase Mirkwood expansion, just for the chance to lead my avatar trough that ancient forest

Wish we had a date for release. With so many other games just starting up right now, and my current game subs I'd consider not resubing or not joining the new games if I knew that Mirkwood was coming sooner than later: say in September or Early October and not say December 20th...the last day of fall.

I am so far behind in this game since I can't afford to play it for a long time.

I still have a character stuck on the books at the lake (eye of angmar) since no one is around doing that section back when I would log in, LFF, then log out for months, log back in again on free play seasons/weeks/weekends they gave, and still dead. 

Actually LotrO is less Raid centric than it ever have been. Back in SoA only the 12-man content was worth doing.

Now there is lots of solo, 3-man, 6-man content worth doing at lvl 60 and if you read the article you will notice that they are adding more of that kind of content.

Adding one 12-man raid / year is considered raid centric now?

Just look at the skirmish system, seems like the biggest MMO-innovation of 2009 but that doesnt say much.

As an original closed beta tester and closed beta tester for every expansion since, I started losing my love for LotRO while testing Mines of Moria.

I'm a Lifetime Founder.  Shaking my head and with a nagging feeling I'd regret it, I did pay my $20 and downloaded the MoM retail expansion and was dragged, kicking and screaming, through the Mines of Moria content (well, at least most of the quests, most of which can eb done solo and to the closing portion of Vol. 2, Book 5).  I didn't advance my pre-Moria maxed crafters (3).  I didn't do any of the MoM instances for the "cool" gear.  I'm not a raider -- I did schlep my way through Helegrod once and got close to the Balrog in the Rift twice only because friends/kinmates asked -- but I just conuldn't motivate myself to raid anymore -- it feels like slowly pulling out my fingernails with a pair of pliers.

A poster above here dilusionally insinuates (parroting Turbine's latest LotRO development team) that most LotRO players want and expect the WoW-like "old generation" MMO.   The truth is that Turbine, unfortunately, choosing to take that well traveled road will likely lose more of their loyal player base than they attract when peddling that old-style content.

So now, reading this hype about the next retail expansion, South Mirkwood, I'd of very much liked to be excited but while it does touch on some nice additions and improvements (the "Good"), those, unfortunately, are vastly overshadowed by WoW-style theme park design of content we used to brag about LotRO avoiding since launch (the "Bad" and the "Ugly").

Yes, I am underwhelmed.  And I actually never thought I would feel this way about LotRO, but I'm toying with not purchasing the next retail expansion.

The one thing i'll always give them is the great in-game music system.

I love you .abc

Originally posted by itpaladin

I am so far behind in this game since I can't afford to play it for a long time.

I still have a character stuck on the books at the lake (eye of angmar) since no one is around doing that section back when I would log in, LFF, then log out for months, log back in again on free play seasons/weeks/weekends they gave, and still dead. 

well its definatly difficult to play that way   it wasnt quite clear  is your problem time or money or both?  

its allways gonna be difficult to log in and think your gonna get a group   together  in 5 minutes 

a standard play sesson is considered 4 hours    and its prety difficult to really get much done in anything less than an hour.

the thing with MMO is that they are by definition a time sinc   so a time comitment is required.

if its a money thing  you might look into  dungeons and dragons online  they just went to free to play  and its at least looking like your play isnt crippled if you dont buy from the store  at least in the short term.

its a markedly different play style than lotr   you may like it,, you may not  but its worth checking out.

i'm a founder as well and have kept my accout active but i dunno the game doesnt grab me. I'm still 30 somthing up in the north downs and rarely play

Originally posted by blackhawk432

The one thing i'll always give them is the great in-game music system.

I love you .abc

dont forget the costume clothing option and clothing toggles,, whoever added that is  definatly a genius  best thing they put into the game,, lets players choose their look,, made lotro much more diverse.  FALLEN EARTH needs this BAD!

I for one am enjoying it immensely, I can safely say that its the only game where Ive taken the time to actually read the quests.

And as far as quests goes they are immensely good and intreaging, I havent felt such a sense of atmosphere since vanilla wow and the two plague zones. Though I must admit that figureing out the lingo and the gameplay is rather tricky even for an old rat like myself.

out of 10 id give it a solid 8+, and im still looking forward to the rest of my journey.

There are many reasons why Im not playing LOTRO - but the picture  with this preview reminded me of one of the biggest.  

Why on earth are horses not with saddles and leaders ?   Seriously ... Talking about Lore braking issues of land of no magic....  What the fuck are ppl at Turbine thinking?

Yes... this is gamebreaking for me.  I dont know if any of the nubs playing the game have ever seen a real life horse.. but they should know that horses or ppl in Middle Earth do not have telepathic abilites...

Originally posted by Fadervor

I for one am enjoying it immensely, I can safely say that its the only game where Ive taken the time to actually read the quests.

And as far as quests goes they are immensely good and intreaging, I havent felt such a sense of atmosphere since vanilla wow and the two plague zones. Though I must admit that figureing out the lingo and the gameplay is rather tricky even for an old rat like myself.

out of 10 id give it a solid 8+, and im still looking forward to the rest of my journey.

yeah that's how i feel which makes my lack of DRIVE to actually log in something of a odd ball. I have like 20 alts on City of heroes and a lvl 32 hero (of a max of 40)

But i just can't bring myself to log into LoTRO even though i enjoy myself when i do.

Personally, I was hoping that they would make Mirkwood a new starter area for Elves, since it is the homeland for Legolas' Elvish folk.  It always seemed like an ideal choice -- and since Elves got the shaft with their "oops, we didn't finish the zone we intended for the Elves first starting area, we'll cram them in a corner of the dwarves's zone", it also seemed even more appropriate. 

That all this digital expansion offers is more of the same Raid-oriented BS is an enormous disappointment.  My wife and I play LOTRO because we enjoy the setting; we enjoy the storytelling; we enjoy the more "casual" approach the game was originally aimed at.  We looked forward to a housing revamp to make it more EQ2-like (housing specifically, that is).  We looked forward to those "we have tons more hobbies after fishing" promises -- which have been ZERO, and fishing not that well implemented in the first place.

We looked forward to the game keeping its launch-attitude -- not to the steep swing to be "just like everyone else", where the whole game becomes focused solely on 'get to the endgame and RAID'.  I never wanted to hear conversations in LOTRO of the ilk:  "you gotta have the new -x- gear, if you want to do anything", nor hear arguments when people who didn't have -x- (in this case, radiance) are denigrated for not playing the way other people want them to. 

It is a profound shame, what they're doing to LOTRO.  My wife let her subscription lapse a few months ago; mine was paid up through mid-October.  I will not be re-upping.  Nor, with Mirkwood being a high-end-only-raid-centric thing, do I have any enticement whatsoever to return.  I will be deleting it from my hard drive -- the final step, as I only delete MMORPGs that I genuinely feel zero interest in, given how long it takes to reinstall and re-patch.  There is nothing in Mirkwood that is interesting, nor is the direction the game is going in compelling.  Scratch two subscriptions, which they could have kept by remembering how they built the game in the first place.

(sigh)  Another one down. 

I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual.

You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load.

Pro tip: Radiance gear is only useful for one thing. you guessed it, RAIDS. There is alike a grand total of 5-6 raids in the entire game. Everything else is for solo, small groups, or 6 mans, including skirmishes and the rest of the new content in this expansion.

You do not need to do anything, or have any of the radiance gear, EVER unless you are raiding.

For fucks sake, it even says right in the article you will now be able to see where a legendary items is going in its progression before investing time in it AND you will be able to craft 3ed and second age items. Not to mention the horse, and bank changes, zone revamps, recent crafting changes and bag stacking.

Clearly most of you do not know what casual means, or what hardcore is, OR how good you have it with this game. Your just re spouting out the same dribble you read on a forum somewhere.

---

Originally posted by Papadam

Actually LotrO is less Raid centric than it ever have been. Back in SoA only the 12-man content was worth doing.
Now there is lots of solo, 3-man, 6-man content worth doing at lvl 60 and if you read the article you will notice that they are adding more of that kind of content.
Adding one 12-man raid / year is considered raid centric now?
Just look at the skirmish system, seems like the biggest MMO-innovation of 2009 but that doesnt say much.

---

Originally posted by brenth

This is starting to sound like its traveling down the same tired road and other MMO expansions  more levels and more raiding

well what if you dont like raiding?

YOU. Out of the pool. There is ONE OPTIONAL raid in this entire expansion.

Originally posted by brenth

Originally posted by blackhawk432

The one thing i'll always give them is the great in-game music system.

I love you .abc

 

dont forget the costume clothing option and clothing toggles,, whoever added that is  definatly a genius  best thing they put into the game,, lets players choose their look,, made lotro much more diverse.  FALLEN EARTH needs this BAD!

I have not played in a while,  Will have to check out these new features.   As far as LoTrO now a grind?  When was it not?  I started with pre-order deal and its a gorgeous game no doubt but what has changed to make it more of a grind?  I get sidetracked to anything new that comes out.   Champions online im currently playing and Aion.   Champions is a crazy challenge and the first mmo that can get your fingers moving like a Quake fest.  At first I died a lot but after dialing in the same messed up character using their skills and abilities system, then using the right sequence of attacks its awsome.   Aion on the other hand is like LoTrO in a way,  I like the chained power skills but still playing pop a mole in the beautiful surroundings with weird creatures.  But, I am still under lvl 20 and can not judge any game untill at least that lvl.   Im sorry,  my point was they are all a grind if leveling is the goal.  Maybe a  "Where's Waldo" mmo would be cool?   Something other than beating little animals to death one after another for a few measly points put towards the ultimate goal,  The Next Level.   Those who are cool with the journey, not a race to the destination,  guarantee you are enjoying mmo's more while getting the full experience devs worked so hard on hoping its noticed. 

Grind is a player created conditions based on the users goals set at the time they log in. No one, but yourself is creating the pace of the game, you are.

If a game feels like a grind, its because you want it to be one. There is, after all, a log off command.

Originally posted by brenth

Originally posted by itpaladin

I am so far behind in this game since I can't afford to play it for a long time.

I still have a character stuck on the books at the lake (eye of angmar) since no one is around doing that section back when I would log in, LFF, then log out for months, log back in again on free play seasons/weeks/weekends they gave, and still dead. 

 

well its definatly difficult to play that way   it wasnt quite clear  is your problem time or money or both?  

its allways gonna be difficult to log in and think your gonna get a group   together  in 5 minutes 

a standard play sesson is considered 4 hours    and its prety difficult to really get much done in anything less than an hour.

the thing with MMO is that they are by definition a time sinc   so a time comitment is required.

if its a money thing  you might look into  dungeons and dragons online  they just went to free to play  and its at least looking like your play isnt crippled if you dont buy from the store  at least in the short term.

its a markedly different play style than lotr   you may like it,, you may not  but its worth checking out.

This is exactly why I cancelled my subscription. I have the money, but do not have the time. I can not spend four hours a shot playing this game. There are too many other things to be done. It is hard to get one hour at a time to play the game. My two characters stalled out in the 30's. The game is beautiful and a great story line, but its hard to progress in the storyline when you can't find a group becuase everyone has moved on. Its become a grind. I didn't look forward to Moria and grinding a LI's along with levels in order to access more content. That's the biggest problem with this game. The developers have put in a big barrier in order to access content and that barrier is an inordinate of time that must be sunk into the game.

The other big problem is that they haven't significantly moved the story forward since MoM. They keep adding in raids and more time sinks. Not to mention that from the description of this latest expansion, it really should be a free update instead of a paid expansion. Yeah, its only $20, but really I don't see anything exciting here.

I loved this game when I first started. It took me a year and a half, but I have discovered that the game isn't for me. The direction the development team has taken sionce MoM has made it even more so.

Originally posted by Shreddi

Originally posted by brenth

Originally posted by blackhawk432

The one thing i'll always give them is the great in-game music system.

I love you .abc

 

dont forget the costume clothing option and clothing toggles,, whoever added that is  definatly a genius  best thing they put into the game,, lets players choose their look,, made lotro much more diverse.  FALLEN EARTH needs this BAD!

 

I have not played in a while,  Will have to check out these new features.   As far as LoTrO now a grind?  When was it not?  I started with pre-order deal and its a gorgeous game no doubt but what has changed to make it more of a grind?  I get sidetracked to anything new that comes out.   Champions online im currently playing and Aion.   Champions is a crazy challenge and the first mmo that can get your fingers moving like a Quake fest.  At first I died a lot but after dialing in the same messed up character using their skills and abilities system, then using the right sequence of attacks its awsome.   Aion on the other hand is like LoTrO in a way,  I like the chained power skills but still playing pop a mole in the beautiful surroundings with weird creatures.  But, I am still under lvl 20 and can not judge any game untill at least that lvl.   Im sorry,  my point was they are all a grind if leveling is the goal.  Maybe a  "Where's Waldo" mmo would be cool?   Something other than beating little animals to death one after another for a few measly points put towards the ultimate goal,  The Next Level.   Those who are cool with the journey, not a race to the destination,  guarantee you are enjoying mmo's more while getting the full experience devs worked so hard on hoping its noticed. 

Amen to the last sentence, which is why all the foolish "grind" talk people spout I don't buy nor do I buy into the whole "the game doesn't start until end game" argument.  These are often statements made by people burning through content to reach the end result waiting for some carrot on a stick while hoping the carrot for once isn't on a stick and once they find out it is they bitch and moan then quit but usually only after moaning so much foolish devs bork the entire game to appease a population who isn't going to return.  But really if you find you play a game simply to reach max level and be able to raid don't turn around after burning through content and bash the game admit you are the problem and move on.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual.

You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load.

Pro tip: Radiance gear is only useful for one thing. you guessed it, RAIDS. There is alike a grand total of 5-6 raids in the entire game. Everything else is for solo, small groups, or 6 mans, including skirmishes and the rest of the new content in this expansion.

You do not need to do anything, or have any of the radiance gear, EVER unless you are raiding.

That's a very good point.  LOTRO has plenty of options for both raiders and those that want to solo.

Personally, I'm a casual raider (I go on a few Turtle runs a month with my guild) but I enjoy doing the 6-person and 3-person stuff - because some of those instances are really fun when you get the strat down.  I play with a static group 2 weeks a night - and have done since shortly after launch.  I enjoy playing the solo stuff but it's more enjoyable for me to be playing something challenging with a group of people I like.  For anyone that's not in a good guild and/or a regular group, I'd thoroughly recommend it.  It's how you'll get the most out of the game.

Oh - And static groups are great for the lower level content.  That way you fly through the solo content and you don't get stalled LFFing when you get to the group stuff.

For all those complaining about raiding and grinding, what exactly do you expect from an expansion?  Steefel is very up front about what you can expect, I believe the quote is 100hrs in one of the videos.  That probably means all the quests 60-65, the book storyline, and a run through the new instances as well.  Anything beyond that, and you are repeating content and grinding.  So you are paying $20 for 100hrs of content plus however much extra grinding you want, plus however many book releases they bring out during they year.

An expansion is levelling followed by a new endgame.  Endgame in Lotro consists of story, gearing up, and PvMP.  It only takes so long to get through the book quests and then you focus on improving your character.  I have yet to hear anyone come up with anything else to do in endgame.  And to Turbine's credit they are trying something new with the skirmish system.

The only thing im worried about with this expansion is it sounds like it will be the death of MPvP. Why not do the skirmish stuff in th Ettenmoors?

The expansion  sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down"

We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY.

Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times.

Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread,  mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story.

Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill.

There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

The expansion  sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down"

We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY.

Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times.

Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread,  mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story.

Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill.

There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.

Dude, you are assuming you even "Win" the fight, or kill him.

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

The expansion  sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down"

We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY.

Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times.

Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread,  mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story.

Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill.

There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.

And yet Aragorn and the hobbits were able to temporarily keep the 9 at bay.  Something as simple as a flash flood (although magically created) was all it needed to take them out of the equation for a bit.  And Eowyn was able to take out the chief Nazgul.

I agree that, if such events are too common, then they lose their impact.  However, I definitely want to have such events and don't want to wait until the final battle for that to happen.  I've enjoyed the way Turbine has implemented those events and they've been rare enough that the chance of another shot at a Nazgul does not seem passe to me.  Sure, if you farmed the Rift a lot, then it could get old - but that's optional for any player.  If a raid stops being fun, stop playing it.  For instance, I've only been into Helegrod about 5 or so times - the last time probably about a year ago.  If I ever find the time to go in again with my guild (they still run it every now and then), I think I'd have a blast doing it again.

Last night, I ran 2.8.3 for the first time (which is also the Hall of Mirrors instance).  I found myself picking up "lesser rings" from the mobs.  It was a geniune lore "wow" moment for me - right down to the quest hand-in text.

If I never got a chance to fight those battles, I think that would be a huge disappointment.

I have quit playing LOTRO all together, even though I am the kins leader.  I have a lifetime sub.

I wish all these folk would quit giving turbine a free pass.

Facts are we were promised to have 4 free updates a year. This year 2 updates and both of those should have rolled out with MoM, but did not.  

The game now is more buggy than ever, and Turbine continues giong down the wow path. I still talk to friend and all, they say hardly nobody is playing it any more.

Folk are all like omg were getting soldiers and stuff, all I see is more and more hampster wheel of death grindathon instead of real content.

I for one will not be giving them my 19.95 until I actually hear the real reviews on how it plays and not this articles gamespeek of what we already heard at pax.

LotR is facing the age old what do you do at top level issue. Raiding and PvP originally and now weapon grinding are their solutions. If you know of anything else the top levels in a MMO could be doing please tell us.

I'm happey that Mirkwood is first. I can wait to get to Rohan and Mordor even few years and want to see Lonely Mountain and other north-eastern areas first. The more places in middle earth to visit the better.

While I am disappointed to see the level cap increase again (at all really, but let alone so soon after moria), I have to wonder at al lthose complaining about the "grind" or how "raid-centric" this is...I mean really, come on!

3-man instances are NOT raids...the six mans are "barely" raids in any serious sense...LotRO continues to be largely focused on the single-group and below content...which is perfect for every small Kinship or group of friends out there.

As for the "grind"...*every* MMO has a grind. Time spent is the only significant way to gate access in a persistent online world. There is virtually nothing in LotRO that you *must* grind to play or advance. It is *all* optional and concerns things that you simply could do without if you choose to not spend the time on them. (really the only present exception to this is Lothlorien faction, which is only a "grind" if you are farming for specific rewards...doing the quest line once through gets you into and through lothlorien)

I am excited to see the details of the skirmish system (which sounds potentially very interesting) and love that they are finally taking the first steps to allow mounted combat.

Am I "thrilled" to be paying 20 bucks for it, nope, but I'm not overly bent out of shape about it either. I still remember how much I shelled out playing EQ...Kunakr, Velliious, Luclin, Planes of Power and on and on....

I hope Turbine gets back on track with more free content upgrades and less of this paid DL crap, but I am willing to cut them a bit of slack as they are still doing better than most.

LoTRO leaves me in a quandry. I love it yet hate it. I love the world, there are none more beautiful. I love the atmosphere that the game conjures and the immersion I feel exploring it. I have a couple of lvl 60 characters, but it took me a long time to get there because I explored everything, read everything and did a lot of crafting - and I never put in the big hours. I haven't got any of the radiance gear, but I don't mind - I think the gear I have looks great and does the job well enough. I still pay my subscription because I cannot bare to part with a game. I would really like to be there when the level cap finally, after many increments, reaches 100, and you can fight your way to Mount Doom, guarding the door while Frodo does his thing with the ring.

But I never play it any more - I just make donations to Turbine. The gameplay is simply too boring. There is no thrill. It's all so static. The community, which used to be the absolute best, is not what it used to be. The skirmish idea sounds interesting, but I doubt it is enough. I doubt that LoTRO will actually last long enough for us to reach Mount Doom. What will become of Frodo without our help?

The question was asked 'what else do you do end game but raid?' I would like to see the ideas used in Annuminas applied on a far broader front and taken a step further. I like the push and shove that constantly happens between the NPC factions. It would be a matter of taking this idea to a much broader areas of the game and making it relevant to players and encouraging player involvement in this push and shove on a broad level.  In other words, the trolls and orcs constantly make forays into the friendly NPC held areas - except let the trolls and orcs win in such battles if players don't join in the fight, and if the trolls and orcs win, then replace all the NPC's in an area with troll and orc NPCs. This could generate a quest - perhaps a non-instanced raid, to get the place back. Again, we see this sort of thing done on a very small scale in Annuminas already. There are plenty of non-instanced quests where groups of enemey NPCs attack friendly NPCs and we must defend them. Use this, but on a larger scale that make the worl dynamic.

The skirmish idea could come into its own here because it could lessen the need to wait on the LFFs. Make the NPC push and shove meaningful - if the enemy holds an area, then quests are not available from friendly NPCs. Randomise the push and shove both in time and number of NPCs involved. In many ways it is still a static themepark world, but it would become more dynamic. Although it might be a little short lived, at least there would be a sense of accomplishment in that you are helping other players by helping hold back the enemy. A sense that your efforts affect the world and other players in a way that an instance can never achieve.

Go up Haldor's flet and wait. At some time a group a ravaging orcs should come streaming across the river and try to get up to that flet. Haldor always escapes to come back at a later stage, but you had better help defend it, along with any other player up there or else the orcs will win past the archers and control that flet. No more quests from Haldor until that flet is recaptured (although there is now a non-instanced skirmish/raid to recapture the flet). And if the flet is not recaptured within 24 hours or whatever, then the orcs NPCs start attacking deeper into friendly territory. Make the strength of attacks gauged on number of players logged on so that there is always a fighting chance, but so that those players who are logged on feel some obligation to help out for the benefit of all Middle Earth.

Imagine playing in Middle Earth and the enemy NPCs do not sit in a static corner waiting for you to come and beat them up, but will randomly attack in numbers an elven, dwarf or ranger held enclave. You must break away from asking for a quest to aid the NPCs and other players to defend the area or risk the area being overrun and access to that quest disappearing until the enemy can be driven out by a larger group of players. Have a frontline more like the Ettenmoors that moves with the tide of battle. Make the world dynamic (at least to some extent).

Then we would have a beautiful immersive world where actions mean something more than a title shared by hundreds of others. What end game is there apart from raiding? Fighting the good fight, helping other players get access to quests and pushing back Sauron's minions.

Well, in a way, there are 9 other raids, since the skirmishes can be done with 12. But yeah, calling LotRO a raid game is stupid. And for all the radiance cry babies, radiance gear will be much easier to get. You won't even need to complete hard mode. Not that it matters, since radiance is being nerfed so that it only onteracts gloom and no longer gives hope. So radiance gear will have no point other than the raid gate. I have never been able to understand the people who whined that the raids were out of reach because they needed radiance. If you could not manage a hard mode, you couldn't handle a raid anyway, so why complain?

Originally posted by erictlewis

I have quit playing LOTRO all together, even though I am the kins leader.  I have a lifetime sub.

I wish all these folk would quit giving turbine a free pass.

Facts are we were promised to have 4 free updates a year. This year 2 updates and both of those should have rolled out with MoM, but did not.  

The game now is more buggy than ever, and Turbine continues giong down the wow path. I still talk to friend and all, they say hardly nobody is playing it any more.

Folk are all like omg were getting soldiers and stuff, all I see is more and more hampster wheel of death grindathon instead of real content.

I for one will not be giving them my 19.95 until I actually hear the real reviews on how it plays and not this articles gamespeek of what we already heard at pax.

MMO's, serious life changing business.

We can ignore the fact that your entitlement on something they HOPED to do, is through the roof.

This expansion will be great cant for it to come out.

Originally posted by ericbelser

While I am disappointed to see the level cap increase again (at all really, but let alone so soon after moria), I have to wonder at al lthose complaining about the "grind" or how "raid-centric" this is...I mean really, come on!

3-man instances are NOT raids...the six mans are "barely" raids in any serious sense...LotRO continues to be largely focused on the single-group and below content...which is perfect for every small Kinship or group of friends out there.

This man/woman speaks truth.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth  

 

I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual.

You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load.

 

QFE. The article mentioned adding a single 12-man, and adding a metric ton of solo, 6-man and even 3-man (?) content in addition to it. And that's on top of this Skirmish system that really should increase the longevity of the game. There are problems with LoTRO, the least of which is it becoming too Hardcore Raid centered. Go play EQ2 if you want to see a raiding community.

LoTRO never feels like a grind for me, I sit back and enjoy the content with my friends. It's literally the only game where I've read most of the quest text, enjoyed the story of the Book quests and not wanted to be at the cap right away. Taking time with alts is one thing, but wanting to read quest text is what makes LoTRO not a grind IMO.

Of course, I could be cynical and look at the $20 download as a cash grab before a large chunk of the user base leaves for Bioware's Star Wars MMO.  Still, as I have a lifetime sub, $20 a year isn't much to shell out for everything I get out of the game.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual.

You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load.

Pro tip: Radiance gear is only useful for one thing. you guessed it, RAIDS. There is alike a grand total of 5-6 raids in the entire game. Everything else is for solo, small groups, or 6 mans, including skirmishes and the rest of the new content in this expansion.

You do not need to do anything, or have any of the radiance gear, EVER unless you are raiding.

For fucks sake, it even says right in the article you will now be able to see where a legendary items is going in its progression before investing time in it AND you will be able to craft 3ed and second age items. Not to mention the horse, and bank changes, zone revamps, recent crafting changes and bag stacking.

Clearly most of you do not know what casual means, or what hardcore is, OR how good you have it with this game. Your just re spouting out the same dribble you read on a forum somewhere.

 

 

 

All stuff that should be in a free book release.

Originally posted by Valdartak

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual.

You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load.

Pro tip: Radiance gear is only useful for one thing. you guessed it, RAIDS. There is alike a grand total of 5-6 raids in the entire game. Everything else is for solo, small groups, or 6 mans, including skirmishes and the rest of the new content in this expansion.

You do not need to do anything, or have any of the radiance gear, EVER unless you are raiding.

For fucks sake, it even says right in the article you will now be able to see where a legendary items is going in its progression before investing time in it AND you will be able to craft 3ed and second age items. Not to mention the horse, and bank changes, zone revamps, recent crafting changes and bag stacking.

Clearly most of you do not know what casual means, or what hardcore is, OR how good you have it with this game. Your just re spouting out the same dribble you read on a forum somewhere.

 

 

 

All stuff that should be in a free book release.

Most that I listed was. I listed very little of whats coming in the expansion, apparently, you have no idea what is what, thus your comments are moot. I listed all the recent and expansion changes that continue to make LOTRO a game very respectful of its player-bases time.

Problem is, most of you do not realize how much work most of the changes coming in the expansion is. The skirmish system is not something someone made in an evening.

Scope, and perceptive, look it up. The expansion is also 20$. Many in this player base have been spoiled, Turbine still releases more free content and new feature more frequently, and with more quality and quantity than any other development house.

Originally posted by teuchy

Of course, I could be cynical and look at the $20 download as a cash grab before a large chunk of the user base leaves for Bioware's Star Wars MMO.  Still, as I have a lifetime sub, $20 a year isn't much to shell out for everything I get out of the game.

Eh why would people leave a MMO for a game that is far from release which we know almost nothing about and what we know isnt very promising?

How could they give a huge content update like this for free? Other companies would charge full price for this amount of content but SoM is only $20...

The mods here need to stop breaking threads. The last page button, and the number of the last page is now broken, this has happened in about 15 threads on the site so far. To the point where a rely boots you to the general discussion forums.

Originally posted by teuchy

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

The expansion  sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down"

We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY.

Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times.

Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread,  mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story.

Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill.

There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.

 

And yet Aragorn and the hobbits were able to temporarily keep the 9 at bay.  Something as simple as a flash flood (although magically created) was all it needed to take them out of the equation for a bit.  And Eowyn was able to take out the chief Nazgul.

I agree that, if such events are too common, then they lose their impact.  However, I definitely want to have such events and don't want to wait until the final battle for that to happen.  I've enjoyed the way Turbine has implemented those events and they've been rare enough that the chance of another shot at a Nazgul does not seem passe to me.  Sure, if you farmed the Rift a lot, then it could get old - but that's optional for any player.  If a raid stops being fun, stop playing it.  For instance, I've only been into Helegrod about 5 or so times - the last time probably about a year ago.  If I ever find the time to go in again with my guild (they still run it every now and then), I think I'd have a blast doing it again.

Last night, I ran 2.8.3 for the first time (which is also the Hall of Mirrors instance).  I found myself picking up "lesser rings" from the mobs.  It was a geniune lore "wow" moment for me - right down to the quest hand-in text.

If I never got a chance to fight those battles, I think that would be a huge disappointment.

Well, I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that. I'll just mention that Tolkien draws heavily on the old concepts of Fate and Doom.  The reason Eowyn COULD take down the Witch King was because she was the one fated to do so. No swordsman, no matter how brave, strong or skilled could achieve that because the Witch King was doomed to never fall to the hand of any man.... and he didn't it.

Furthermore, there are many things that Aragorn does in the books because only HE can do them. Remember, not only is he not just any old wanderer in the wild... he's not even just any Dunedain either. He is Isildurs heir.... that blood-line means something special in Tolkiens World.

As far as our characters go.... we're just supposed to be the Ordinary sort of hero's that you might see get a passing mention in the book (e.g Hama) .... At least that was Turbines origional concept (as they described it) when they first released the game.... and one I REALLY LIKED. That's why we are not allowed to play Dunedain or Elf Lords.  There is something far richer (IMO) to being forced to play those ordinary sorts of hero's with all thier flaws, failings and short-comings.

Playing the guy with the cape and the big S on his chest.... gets very one dimensional and frankly cartoonish very quickly. It seems to me that Turbine keeps upping the ante with how powerfull our characters are supposed to be in the world.... I guess they are going for the "Iconic" or "Epic" or whatever the marketing-speak buzzword of the day is. I just wish they had stuck with thier origional guns and kept things on a more subtle/low key level. Honestly I think they are letting thier marketing guys drive thier content and tone.....and frankly marketing guys stink as story-tellers, GM's, and world designers.

The game had pretty much the perfect feel for me right around when our characters were 15-20th level or so. The more we advance the more Monty Haulish/Monty Pythonish it starts to feel..... and frankly the further away (for me) it feels from the essence of Tolkiens creation.

This is really simple.

The preponderance of long-time LotRO players are very unhappy with the direction the new development team is taking with the game.    We'd like to see them stop worshipping at the old-style fantasy MMO god, reverse direction and move forward and never look back. 

The profound dislike with the old-style stuff is all over the official forum and a focal point of many threads on all thewell-known fan sties, as well.  Impossible to ignore or dismiss, even if you're a LotRO/Turbine fanboi and/or a lover of the now-tiresome old, outdated standbys of fantasy MMO game play.

We'd like to see more polish to what we have (mounts are a joke, for example) and more forward thinking (like skirmishes).  We need even more improvements to crafting; lets not forget how silly the half-ass housing has remained the same, unchanged since it was hastily thrown in).  Polish.   LotRO is screaming "Polish me!."

Unfortunately the current dev regime made it clear that they will remain stubbornly fixated on many of the tired old-school WoW-like (use EQ2 here and the like) systems, foolishly justifying this in their mistaken impression that it will bring more people to the game. 

Sad.

While I agree there is plenty they could and should be working on, it's not like none of what you want is there.

The new skirmish system IS there. They are taking the first steps towards making mounts usable in combat. They are making crafting more important to end game legendaries. 

All three of those are things you say they need to do and well they are doing them. Look on the bright side for once?

Originally posted by Lizante

This is really simple.

The preponderance of long-time LotRO players are very unhappy with the direction the new development team is taking with the game.    We'd like to see them stop worshipping at the old-style fantasy MMO god, reverse direction and move forward and never look back. 

The profound dislike with the old-style stuff is all over the official forum and a focal point of many threads on all thewell-known fan sties, as well.  Impossible to ignore or dismiss, even if you're a LotRO/Turbine fanboi and/or a lover of the now-tiresome old, outdated standbys of fantasy MMO game play.

We'd like to see more polish to what we have (mounts are a joke, for example) and more forward thinking (like skirmishes).  We need even more improvements to crafting; lets not forget how silly the half-ass housing has remained the same, unchanged since it was hastily thrown in).  Polish.   LotRO is screaming "Polish me!."

Unfortunately the current dev regime made it clear that they will remain stubbornly fixated on many of the tired old-school WoW-like (use EQ2 here and the like) systems, foolishly justifying this in their mistaken impression that it will bring more people to the game. 

Sad.

While it is true a lot of folks are unhappy. All you have to do is log into game and see the numbers.  Saturday night I went to each region and did a /who to see what all I cam up with. A total of around 2900 folks playing, durring prime time hours.  Saturday morning less than 100 total server wide.

I think a lot of folks are playing other things while waiting for the dev team to give us details.  Things we do know about the relase. We getting level cap increase, were getting some kind of tune up to LI system, and a skrimage system.  Were also getting more radiance gating something that has been an issue for a year, instead of fixing it now there just splitting it off. 

Only time will tell, moria was a bad publish. I would bet that were going to have months worth of fixes after this thing goes live. All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it.

"All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it."

Freudian slip, eh Eric?  Still on point, though.

I'm a lifetime founder so I'll be checking to see how long it takes for Turbine to get back on course with this game.  If they do manage to listen like they used to and get away from their current bent on old style, outdated MMO "features," great.  I'd love to return to logging in and playing LotRO regularly.  If not, I'll just continue beta testing Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Originally posted by Lizante

"All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it."

Freudian slip, eh Eric?  Still on point, though.

I'm a lifetime founder so I'll be checking to see how long it takes for Turbine to get back on course with this game.  If they do manage to listen like they used to and get away from their current bent on old style, outdated MMO "features," great.  I'd love to return to logging in and playing LotRO regularly.  If not, I'll just continue beta testing Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Well you dont speak for all of us... I have played LotrO since beta and think MoM have been alot better than SoA was and that Turbine have been improving the game alot since what it was like back the.

The only thing I dont like is that they are catering to much to the solo grinders.... and guess what? The majority of the people complaining are the solo grinders for some wierd reason.. But if you are looking for a solo game SWTOR will probably be great for you ;)

Well I have to say, even as a supporter, I am a bit baffled and vaguely annoyed now that they have announced some more details.

On the one hand, it's cool that I might be getting Mirkwood for free....on the other, it's annoying that I cannot really tell for sure from the way they worded their "special offer".

Also, this new "adventurers pack" thing for the 2 extra character slots and some perqs is a massive let down and the start of the slide down into the abyss of microtransaction hell - which *will* make me quit the game faster than anything.