You are right about the store and turning LOTRO to cash machine. I hate players who are lazy and dont want to work for it, its much simpler for them to just pull out there or parents card and "presto", they are level 60 with full gear. Its just go to show how simple minded they are, with no imagination or ethics. I miss old days when mmo was played by gamers who enjoyed game for what it offer, an adventure and lore. Today mmo become just one more mediocre product (with few bright exceptions).

 

 

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Sympathy to the OP...

I am a avid JRR Tolkein and Middle Earth fan... and YES the store takes away from what makes JRR Tolkeins works so immersive.

Its supposed to be about adventure and going anywhere thru out the world...instead you cant go here cant go there and must buy this or that to go here or there....

Now having said that, LOTRO needs to make money and its a known fact that F2P with transaction stores makes money and no one wants to pay a sub.

In my mind that illusion was shatterd when i could stand in Bagsend and spit to the edge of the shire. We all have to look away from the aspects that are glaringly wrong to be immersed in the story.

 

But i'd like to point out that even before it went F2P you had to pay to be able to advance the story so that is not really anything new.

Yeah, you had to pay a subscription fee, or pay for the expansions, that's the nature of the business. But if not enough were subscribing to keep the game going, what do you expect them to do? Shut the game down, or try another method of making  money and keeping the game alive for folks to play and enjoy... Personally I think if the store breaks your immersion, don't buy anything off of it, and don't worry about anyone else but yourself. 

And if you are pissed that it doesn't fit the books or movies (and the movies took some liberties as well) then don't play. MMO's have far too many people that cry about the silliest of things when they can simply not participate in those things, ignore those that do, or move on. And if you have a lifetime like I do, you already got your money's worth 2 years ago.

Originally posted by Niimarr

You are right about the store and turning LOTRO to cash machine. I hate players who are lazy and dont want to work for it, its much simpler for them to just pull out there or parents card and "presto", they are level 60 with full gear. Its just go to show how simple minded they are, with no imagination or ethics. I miss old days when mmo was played by gamers who enjoyed game for what it offer, an adventure and lore. Today mmo become just one more mediocre product (with few bright exceptions).

 

 

Nilmarr,

Given my frustration with LoTRo's divergence from their original mission statement, be true to Tolkien Lore,  I would very much like to know what games you consider "bright exceptions".  I've scouted around and haven't come across anything that is 'bright'.  I'd like to check them out.

Thanks - Kill Well - Stay vertical

Felseth

Originally posted by Felseth

Originally posted by Niimarr

You are right about the store and turning LOTRO to cash machine. I hate players who are lazy and dont want to work for it, its much simpler for them to just pull out there or parents card and "presto", they are level 60 with full gear. Its just go to show how simple minded they are, with no imagination or ethics. I miss old days when mmo was played by gamers who enjoyed game for what it offer, an adventure and lore. Today mmo become just one more mediocre product (with few bright exceptions).

 

 

Nilmarr,

Given my frustration with LoTRo's divergence from their original mission statement, be true to Tolkien Lore,  I would very much like to know what games you consider "bright exceptions".  I've scouted around and haven't come across anything that is 'bright'.  I'd like to check them out.

Thanks - Kill Well - Stay vertical

Felseth

Well, mostly those games are from older times. And by bright exceptions I mean mmo that are or used to be played by gamers who put effort in playing and of course those games that are good. DAOC is good example, Everquest 1&2, GW (not real mmo in that sense of word, but still great game), Lineage 1&2, Lotro (before F2P), ...etc. And hopefully few new ones will be "bright excep." , like TSW, GW2, ArchAge...

Originally posted by Niimarr

Nilmarr,

Given my frustration with LoTRo's divergence from their original mission statement, be true to Tolkien Lore,  I would very much like to know what games you consider "bright exceptions".  I've scouted around and haven't come across anything that is 'bright'.  I'd like to check them out.

Thanks - Kill Well - Stay vertical

Felseth

Well, mostly those games are from older times. And by bright exceptions I mean mmo that are or used to be played by gamers who put effort in playing and of course those games that are good. DAOC is good example, Everquest 1&2, GW (not real mmo in that sense of word, but still great game), Lineage 1&2, Lotro (before F2P), ...etc. And hopefully few new ones will be "bright excep." , like TSW, GW2, ArchAge...

Thats the real catch isn't it.  Games from older times.  Gamers who put effort in playing.  Games that are good.  The last two being the criteria for a good MMO experience.  LoTRo, in older times, game flaws blurred by adherence to Tolkien Lore, had wonderful players who wanted the Tolkien immersion and played it as such.  Not so anymore as Turbine has reduced the immersion factor to just another MMO that can have Tolkien names in it.  You can still find small pockets of such players, most on the original servers, who ignore the Store, don't play dwarf loremasters, etc. and try to keep the game as it was.  But I fear its a losing battle and they, like myself, are out looking for a better places, but fall back on our lifetime subs and hang around and bitch about  whats been done to "our" game.  As if it ever was.   And the search goes on....

I just love people crying abou what other people are doing in games.  It is just the funniest part of our horrible society that everyone is so worried about what everyone else is doing.  Face it LoTR was dying it went free to play because subs were dropping to new games.  FTP brought it new life.  Yeah new people run it and it probably does not get the attention and dedication of writers to make it as close to the books as you would like.  That is a valid argument for you to make, but worrying that your hard work is not looked upon and oogled by the masses is a joke.  Do you whine that your car does not make everyone oh and ah like the 16 year old who's parents bought him a ferrari.  Your anger over the fact he did not work for it. 

@OP

 

Sorry mate.  Time to face cold hard truths.  Cash Shop is not going anywhere.  Cash Shop is not gonna fold  back and go 'minimalistic non-intruseive way'. Like it does from beggining it is gonna expand.

 

Seriously hoping that 'game will revert to old immersive no-microtransaction times'  will get you nowhere. 

I know I was in the same place you are.

 

Much better to bite the bullet and move on.  Just do other things. 

Find other mmorpg, or find some nice books, maybe sport or anything else.

 

Pleading, asking, begging or threating will not change WB-Turbine.  They already decided long ago.  They decided to not leave any pure P2P servers and they decided to go CS / microtransaction way.  I know it sucks, but it is not gonna change for Lotro.

Staying and putting more money into Turbine's mouth is not gonna make them change their ways.  Nor asking to change on forums.

Originally posted by Felseth

 

I understand the economics that game developers work under, I used to do it many moons ago.

I also used to LIVE in Lord of the Rings Online because I was such a fan of the books.

Then Evil came to the lands - far, far worse that anything Mordor could conjur up.

LoTRo went and opened the LoTRo Store - where nothing you buy is in any JRR.T book, movie, or anywhere.

It was a great game to play(with all it own unique flaws included) - But the Evil GREED opened a store that totally defies any Tolkien Lore, in game logic, everything.

It made it a Game for the Wealthy.  It skewed the haves and have nots almost as bad as the US Government.

Forgot your TP, just buy it from the store no matter where you are.  Need a bandage, there's the store.  Want all your crafting materials without farming, theres the store.  But bring your VISA card as they don't take Gold.

Hear Me Turbine / Warner Brothers - you screwed it big time.  First mistake was $200 gets you free play for life.  Who did the math on that one?  But that is nothing compared to ruining your fine game.

Hear Me Turbine / Warner Brothers - Kill the Store and I'll gladly come back and pay $25/mth to have LOGIC returned.  Equality returned.  Yes the extra $10 will hurt some, but my guess is that $10 is paltry to what that player is paying the store.

But thats the catch isn't it.  The wealthy spend cold hard cash at your store far and beyond any exorbitant monthly fee.

Which brings us back to GREED.  Don't try the "we would be out of biz without it" line - nobody is buying that old crap.

So before you let GREED KILL THE GAME, ALIENATE MORE AND MORE PLAYERS, AND YOU END UP WITH LESS MONEY and ULTIMATELY NO GAME PLAYERS....

BURN THE STORE TO THE GROUND.

 

 

Yeah...

 

Go read the books.

Originally posted by Horusra

I just love people crying abou what other people are doing in games.  It is just the funniest part of our horrible society that everyone is so worried about what everyone else is doing.  Face it LoTR was dying it went free to play because subs were dropping to new games.  FTP brought it new life.  Yeah new people run it and it probably does not get the attention and dedication of writers to make it as close to the books as you would like.  That is a valid argument for you to make, but worrying that your hard work is not looked upon and oogled by the masses is a joke.  Do you whine that your car does not make everyone oh and ah like the 16 year old who's parents bought him a ferrari.  Your anger over the fact he did not work for it. 

Wow, where did you and your bold button come from?  

Your 3rd/4th/5th sentences are valid responses to this thread.  The rest.... not sure what post you picked it out from.

Who said anything about paying any attention to what others are doing, or worrying about it.  Nobody. 

Who said anything about "worrying that your hard work is not looked upon and oogled by the masses" ?  Nobody.

But since YOU brought it up - I don't give a crap about what others in the game have, and I certaintly don't give a crap about a 16 year old with a Ferrari.  Hell, he's just going to wrap it around a tree in a few months anyway.  Seriously what does that have to do with LoTRo and this thread.  You seem to not only invent words and emotions, make wild assumptions, but you also blur life and game mentalities.

This thread is simply about a game.  More specifically the LoTRo store with the game. Something that IMHO it is illogical from a game standpoint and takes something away from the game rather than adding to it.  I also feel it's an unfair situation to those not as well off as some others, a difference not in the game prior to the store.  Nowhere is there anything said about being angry about those who use the store, simply that it's use, as it is implemented, is flawed from a game perspectve.

Maybe playing the game is "hard work" for you, but I don't find it so.  

The only joke is your invented , off thread, off base blather.  That and your last sentence, which isn't actually a sentence.

I suspect the only anger in this entire thread will come from your 'inventive' response.  But hey, surprise me.  Cheers.  

 

Throw the cash shop into Mt Doom. Along with the tokens and marks, dungeon finder, streamlining zones, and everything else post moria except for hall of mirrors and waterworks.

Originally posted by Felseth

Thats the real catch isn't it.  Games from older times.  Gamers who put effort in playing.  Games that are good.  The last two being the criteria for a good MMO experience.  LoTRo, in older times, game flaws blurred by adherence to Tolkien Lore, had wonderful players who wanted the Tolkien immersion and played it as such.  Not so anymore as Turbine has reduced the immersion factor to just another MMO that can have Tolkien names in it.  You can still find small pockets of such players, most on the original servers, who ignore the Store, don't play dwarf loremasters, etc. and try to keep the game as it was.  But I fear its a losing battle and they, like myself, are out looking for a better places, but fall back on our lifetime subs and hang around and bitch about  whats been done to "our" game.  As if it ever was.   And the search goes on....

I know what you mean, but thats the way things are right now and sadly we cant do nothing about it (at least for now). Iam on EN-RP server and it have still fairly decent community.

First off the OP makes it sound like the only way to play this is F2p? He states he would pay $25/month to play this and not have to use the store? Well I have been playing since beta over 5yrs, I kick myself every three months for not buying the lifetime sub. They released that way before f2p and they only introduction it twice. At release $299 and one at moria $199, not sure how you have an issue with that. But back to the store, I have multiple level 75s very well geared max traits and never once have i used the store for anything except cosmetic and storage. So I am confused how you are willing to pay a monthly sub but feel something you DONT EVER HAVE TO USE RUINS this game? Also how about an example of what people buy in the store that takes away from the lore?

any game which is pay2win like lotro just deserves to die. No immersion, competition is skewed to the point it turns you off. Hopefully GW2 doesn't ever become LoTRO.

Its funny that people operate under the delusion that accomplishments in LOTRO were meaningful, at any point.

 

It was the most EZ mode MMO Ive ever played, full stop. Might as well put in a cash shop, the way the game was designed everyone and their daddy who hardly plays is gonna have top end gear on thier 4 max level toons.

Plus the community in LOTRO has always been garbage. Another fantasy is that hardcore players are elitist jerks, and roleplayers are pillars of the community...dont make me laugh bro. Hardcore players are definitely elitist jerks, but as a general rule roleplayers are equally snobbish and far more infantile.

You are right though, the only thing LOTRO really had going for it was the quest dialogue. We can agree on that point.

I just started playing Vanguard, now there is a real MMO, if you're looking for something worthwhile to spend your money on. But they're going FTP soon too, so beware the impending cash shop.

I am gonna have to agree with the last post. It is overrated the quality of the player community. It is an easy game that probably a 6 year old could solo. [mod edit]

I dont see why the OP is upset over the store though. Sure they went overboard selling everything but their grandma to you, but you would have to spend a fortune to really make advances, and as said above, it still wont make you that much better a player skillwise. I think the lure of the special mounts or lorebooks might have affected him, so perhaps the store is actually working.

As for Vanguard, I was gonna give the FTP a try. I played for the first 6 months thru their dumb nerfs, lack of promised content, and horrible technical problems. But after reading their FTP offer, I will not be returning. That game doesnt even have the content to offer a viable FTP model. Its just a sad testament to how cookie cutter games have taken over that old schoolers refer to Vanguard as one of the last great games. Vanguard was and is a pile of sloppy ugly mess.

Originally posted by Params7

any game which is pay2win like lotro just deserves to die. No immersion, competition is skewed to the point it turns you off. Hopefully GW2 doesn't ever become LoTRO.

and the OP has done it, you've successfully called forth the "everythings P2W!" crowd. Was just a matter of time. 

I agree with you OP i don't like what they charge in the store or that they put materials, enhancements to LI's in the store. However, nothing in there can't be gotten in game. AND you missed one other thing, one can earn 2500 points free just by playing. It's really not that difficult. How many other  games give you free stuff to buy? And you don't have to do anything but play.

I did it. There is some bad there yes, but the entire store concept is not bad and having cosmetics is hardly a have and have not situation when you can make many of the same cosmetic items in game or get them from Skirmish rewards.

If you want to complain about a store i would suggest you do so concerning those games that do both sub and store and still charge $25 to transfer a character. WoW comes to mind immediately.

LOTRO was a well done niche game that was unable to attract a large enough subscription audience to survive and truly grow on its own merits. I do not see the F2P move as a cash grab but as a necessity to keep the game viable in the eyes of WB. I did not have a problem with the cash shop at all back in the Moria days. I left with Isengard though and a recent check of the website revealed a lot more cash shop focus than I remember on the store page. I am not sure what is up there but I hope it has not grown as bad for the game as say Star Trek Online with their lock boxes and P2W ship sales model.

 

EVE Online is pay to win in game and even in the meta game sense. LOTRO is pay for ease of play as there is no real PVP focus outside of misguided kids that want to think they are cool somewhere other than in real life.

 

Does the cash shop destroy immersion? I hear there are ads in the F2P version? If that is accurate yeah I would want them gone even in the free client. Lord forbid they put them in the subscriber client. Otherwise, Joe-Bob picking up a stat tome for easier grinding or a cloak to look good doesn’t bother me or destroy the game.

Take the LOTR skin off of it and this is simply not a very good game. Rather you should consider what a team of devs with a genuine vision and raw talent (and the huge budget this IP deserves) could have done with it. "Free" to play is jsut a scam of sorts - it ain't free and the truth is all you are doing is helping them sell subscriptions, a kind off lets make the world look populated while exploting poor gamers by having them make the game look popular but in reality you allow yourself to become nothing but a corporate marketing tool for a subpar so-called "RPG" while having a rancid little bone dangeling in front of you (ftp). Think about it.

Originally posted by Params7

any game which is pay2win like lotro just deserves to die. No immersion, competition is skewed to the point it turns you off. Hopefully GW2 doesn't ever become LoTRO.

 

 

What a ignorant post. I'm guessing you haven't played in a while? It's far from dead on Laurelin. I play to RP and i'm in a good RP guild. We don't 'play to win'. You misunderstand that LOTRO is so easy now to solo, you don't have to buy anything from the store to help you win, the game is not play to win by any stretch of the imagination.

No immersion? I had 2 hours of the best RP i've had since UO last night, across several zones with over 20 players. I can't get that in almost any other current mmo. Lotro won't die any time soon because the community is so strong.

To be honest the things I buy (with my free 500 lifer points each month) are cosmetic items to enhance roleplay.

Originally posted by Nikoz78
Take the LOTR skin off of it and this is simply not a very good game. Rather you should consider what a team of devs with a genuine vision and raw talent (and the huge budget this IP deserves) could have done with it. "Free" to play is jsut a scam of sorts - it ain't free and the truth is all you are doing is helping them sell subscriptions, a kind off lets make the world look populated while exploting poor gamers by having them make the game look popular but in reality you allow yourself to become nothing but a corporate marketing tool for a subpar so-called "RPG" while having a rancid little bone dangeling in front of you (ftp). Think about it.

 

*Yawn*