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Lord of the Rings Online Interviews: Free to Play Interview
MMORPG.com's Michael Bitton got a chance to catch up with Turbine's Executive Director of Communications Adam Mersky and LOTRO Executive Producer Kate Paiz to discuss today's big announcement that The Lord of the Rings Online would be re-launching as a hybrid Free-to-Play game.
By Michael Bitton on June 04, 2010
As I’m sure many of you read this morning, Turbine has announced that The Lord of the Rings Online will be going Free to Play. The F2P re-launch of LOTRO is set for this Fall in both North America and Europe (Codemasters will run the European version), and a beta test phase is set to begin in a little over a week on June 16th. Naturally, many of you have tons of questions about the dramatic shift, and we got a chance to catch up with Turbine’s Executive Director of Communications Adam Mersky as well as LOTRO Executive Producer (formerly Senior Producer on DDO) Kate Paiz to get you some answers.
I asked Kate about what went into making this decision for LOTRO, and she responded that one major factor was the runaway success of the re-launch of Dungeons & Dragons Online, which resulted in “a significant uplift In player participation, in interested in the title, and in activity community participation.” Turbine looked at that and basically decided that it was really a no brainer for LOTRO given all the aforementioned benefits, and of course, this change results in making the game much more accessible to many more players.
While there were a lot of obvious benefits in making the switch, the logistics of it didn’t involve a simple cut-and-paste job. The Lord of the Rings Online is an entirely different beast than Dungeons & Dragons Online, consisting of a more traditional MMO experience, and breaking that up into smaller pieces fitting a Free to Play model resulted in a few differences in execution. For example, LOTRO doesn’t make use of the same content model as DDO, instead it has a completely open world with your typical bread and butter quests, dungeons, and instances, and so in LOTRO players will have full unfettered access to the entire open world, but the limited access comes into play with certain quest givers. The entirety of Bree-land, Ered Luin, and the Shire will be fully accessible by F2P players, as will any of the main story content even beyond these regions, however, quest givers featuring quests peripheral to the main storyline will require a purchasable unlock as players progress through the game’s later areas, starting around level 20-25, beginning with the Lone-lands. The locked quest givers will be denoted with a lock icon above their heads, and players can unlock them by simply talking to them and being given the option to purchase the content right then and there. It’s important to note that players won’t have to unlock an individual quest giver, though, as making a purchase unlocks all locked quest givers for that particular region. Free players won’t be hurting for things to do, however, as Kate estimates the entirely free content amounts to around 300 hours of gameplay.
Turbine learned a lot from DDO’s re-launch as well, and they’ll be carrying their experience over to LOTRO. Like DDO, the LOTRO Store will only offer items of convenience, no one will be “paying to win” when LOTRO re-launches as a F2P game. Generally, the only time you will really see gear available in the LOTRO Store will be as “Starter Packs” which give new players a little bit of a leg up in the very early parts of the game.
Also like DDO, players who are current subscribers will not see much of a change in the way things are now, they’ll have access to all the content they have now, and enjoy some additional benefits such as shared storage, 20 cosmetic wardrobe slots, as well as a 500 Turbine Point stipend every month. Lifetime subscribers are just the same, they simply won’t have to pay for their continued VIP access. Current subscribers have the added bonus of being able to earn their 500 Turbine points beginning now, giving them a little bit of stockpile when the game switches over in the Fall. Though, those of you who play both DDO and LOTRO might be disappointed to find out that Turbine Points purchased for the DDO Store will not be valid in the LOTRO Store and vice-versa, they are entirely separate.
Development of the game will continue generally as it has been now, with larger updates featuring a new region and perhaps a level cap bump, as well as smaller updates, however Kate emphasized that the change to the Free to Play model would enable Turbine to put out these smaller updates much faster than they used to. Looking ahead, Kate let us know that the team is interested in exploring Eisengard and continuing the Saruman storyline there.
Finally, we wanted to know what the recent acquisition of Turbine by Warner Bros. would mean for Turbine and their players, and Adam Mersky explained that they’ve been working with Warner Bros. on this deal for awhile now, and Warner Bros. has previously mentioned some of the strategic reasons they were interested in Turbine, such as leveraging tech made for Turbine’s Free to Play business model. However, as Adam also points out, the decision made sense for Warner Bros. due to the success of Turbine’s games as well. More specifically, Adam explained that the “success of DDO is unquestioned, it’s changed everything as far as this business, the type of game, the way we do content now, it’s a total turn around success story that is continuing to grow.” Turbine (and Warner Bros.) feel that what Turbine is doing is the future of online gaming, though Adam cautions this doesn’t necessarily mean Turbine’s specific model, but the idea of offering players additional options in how they access your game, and this puts Turbine (and now Warner) at the forefront.
The fact that Turbine points don't cross over is BS. Asian publishers have had universal currency for the games under their respective umbrellas (a la gpotato) can't be too hard for Turbine to follow suit.
I see your point, but I understand their reasoning. Right now I have a lifetime sub to LOTRO, and I play DDO as a premium player. I haven't spent real cash on DDO since I came back, spending only some accrued points to unlock dungeons. If the points were universal, I could take my 500 a month from LOTRO and spend them in DDO to buy unlocks or hirelings or skill resets or whatever. It's pretty obvious the Lifetime sub option in LOTRO is negating a universal points system.
Whoa, that's interesting.
Maybe I'll give LotRO another go again, since I have more than 14 days to see if I like it this time, lol.
They just lost this current subscriber. I dont play Pay to Win games.
I just cancelled my LoTRO account. I have had enough with the F2P titles and the quality of player it brings with it. I'm sad they made this choice, but it's their business and they have every right to do it.
I suppose you're right. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.
Did you read the interview? I asked them explicitly about the "Pay to Win" scenario, and it's part and parcel of their strategy to ensure that players are not able to "Pay to Win," this was made painfully clear by Turbine's Craig Alexander during our panel at PAX East as well.
I'm just glad they made sure to take care of the life subs with this conversion. I'm sure some will still complain, but the exemtption from charges for content and the c-store stipend seem like adequate compensation to me.
The Turbine Points being separate between games is stupid. Station Cash is good across any SoE game that has access to the Marketplace (my cash is good in Free Realms and EQ2 for example). I can even buy game services with Station Cash.
The other thing I think they're being disengenuous about what they're selling in the store. Based on the comparison chart on the LotRO site VIPs will have access to the complete trait system while others can buy them. Traits are core to the class functioning properly, so they are selling core class and game play functionality upgrades and not just fluff or content.
I think they would have done the game world better by actually developing deep subsystems and offering a cash shop model similar to SoE's Marketplace where people could buy fluff, mounts, housing items, potions, and pets to make their adventures in Middle Earth more fun.
This is a sad day for me. I have been a LotRO player from the days right after closed beta and have had a lifetime membership since that time. The fact that I am LIMITED to 500 points per month is TOTAL BS! I paid my rather large fee up front and expected that to be sufficient.
I would rather have a COMPLETE refund and give Turbine/Warner Brothers a big one-fingered wave good-bye ..i.
Ok, seriously, people need to learn to do some fucking RESEARCH
You are not LIMITED to 500 pts. You are GIVEN 500 pts. You want to buy more? Go ahead.
So the locked quests can only be bought? Can't they be earned with some kind of a different system like in DDO where you could open up new classes and quests by completing quests to get favor points?
For every one of you they will lose because you dont't read the whole article, and don't bother to look into how the F2P model has changed DDO (for the better), they will gain 10 more people... I know that I am super-excited about this and will be playing.
Yes, you can. Just like DDO.
My question is this what happens with the content alot of us already purchased such as mines of moria and mirkwood along with the other lil small adventure pack that gave shared bank and more char slots do we get to keep any of that or do we have to repurchase it again or go to a sub model?
And I think ANYONE who has purchased these games and expansions should be given something considering we paid for this frickin software to begin with,What really p**ses alot off is the fact turbine was lettin ppl buy lifetime subs again till really recent along with running there 9,99 special what about those ppl are they sol now that they bought the software or lifetime sub under a few weeks ago to have turbine pull this crap? I am really dissapointed that they did this not so much the f2p model but how they cashed grabbed off unknowing ppl right up to the minute.
http://www.lotro.com/news/709-announcing-the-lord-of-the-rings-onlines-move-to-free-to-play-
All your questions are answered there.
How many companies openly admit they are putting in 'pay to win'? Has any company ever admitted that?
Thanks zeowyrm I had looked at it earlier and could'nt find it for some reason.This I can deal with.
* Purchasers of the Mines of Moria™ expansion get access to the Mines of Moria region and content, premium classes (Rune-Keeper and Warden), legendary items feature, Tier 6 crafting feature, 2 extra character slots and a level cap of 60. Purchasers of the Siege of Mirkwood™ expansion get access to the Siege of Mirkwood region and content, a level cap of 65 and the Siege of Mirkwood skirmishes.
** Purchasers of the LOTRO Adventurer's Pack get 2 extra character slots and 20 slots of shared bank storage across all characters on the same servers.
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The comparison chart (http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html) on their site does say that trait slots will be limited and can be purchased, gold cap is limited, storage is limited, destiny point usage is limited, and crafting guilds are limited. These are all things you can buy that seriously affect the win. There is more to buying the win or being gimped by no purchase than gear and stats on items.
I think it's a gross oversimplification to say that since a game doesn't sell gear or stat items in the shop that they aren't making purchases that drastically affect the game play. The way Turbine is setting this up is just that; seriously limiting game play without buying them. There is a pretty big difference between Turbine's cash stores and the way EQ2 and WoW have set them up. The stuff in those stores really isn't needed to play the game to its fullest. Turbine's cash model is the opposite.
As much as Turbine might claim they're not going to go in the "Pay to Win" direction, I've never seen a F2P that didn't, and that includes DDO. The biggest difference here is that LotRO is known for a higher calibur of difficulty and of player ability. It has a larger distance to fall than DDO did. Once again, proof that MMOs will no longer be made for serious players. This move is likely the final nail in the coffin of serious raiding.
You paid $199. If you joined when the game started, you've gotten over 3 years of play out of that. If you paid it last year, you'll get over 18months out of that. Plus, you are now going to continue to get the equivalent of $15/mo content for free. That's MORE than fair compensation. If free content and 500pts a month aren't enough (though, I can't imagine being able to use more) then I don't know what to tell you...
If you look at the content on the DDO store, I'd say there would be a lot of equivalent content on the Lotro store. Variations and exceptions will exist obviously. As the holder of two lifetime subs, I'm particularly looking forward to the ~5000 points I'll be getting when the f2p goes live. (1000 for lifetime, 500 per anniversary (1500), 500 for founder, and 500/month figuring Sept as launch). First thing I'm doing is buying up my shared bank to max.
Also, I think this is a good opportunity for former players who've not played for whatever reason to come back with no expense. Paraphrasing a quote from the Lotro forums by a dev, "If you've spent money on lotro, you will be Premium as a minimum" So that right there gives past players a leg up from Johnny-come-lately who downloads it after the f2p launch.
My concern, and why I cancelled, are not because I think Turbine is "the devil", they have a right to run their business as they choose. As a veteran online gamer of some 15+ years I just don't aprticularly like the F2P crowd. I'd rathe rpay a monthly fee and not have the quantity of rabble in the game. That's just me and I choose to take my money elsewhere, I wish LoTRO the best because I love Lord of teh Rings. I think turbine will make more money but I think the quality of the game, for the serious gamer, will take a nose-dive. Just my opinion.
Crafting was barely holding on now it will be dead why pay a player in game gold which is limited, when I can use points.. especialy if I have a lifetime sub...
I have to agree 100%. Looking at that chart - I'm screwed unless I pay to play. Destiny points? I have 4k...you cannot spend them unless you pay. Crafting guilds? I'm fully crafting guild playable right now - something I EARNED through an honor/crafting grind. I will be limited unless I pay. Gold?? I have 20g right now. Are they going to TAKE 18g away from me when this goes pay to play unless I pay real money to keep it? Storage bags. I have 4 bags in my vault - all full of items I've made and/or found. Do I lose them if I don't pay to play?'
"WIN" may be a subjective word in an MMORPG. But, I'd say that if I have to pay real money to keep all those things - that is clearly 'pay to win' in my book.
One thing i will agree with is the community which atm is about the best,friendliest and most helpful of any mmog out will turn to garbage once it goes ftp because the trolls and immature players can come in and out whenever they want.I hope it don't happen but am sure it will.One thing always brought me back to lotro every few months was def the community.
I've been speaking to some friends in Lotro and its a little bit of a mixed responce at the moment . I'm alone in my kinship in having played DDO and seen how well the hybrid model (i don't like the term free to play) works so I don't see this as a paticulary bad thing .I think a lot of players will be turned around when they see there will be more people playing and more content . The only possible bad thing is how it may harm one of the nicer communitys in the mmo genre . I may have to use that iggie button and that will be a first in lotro .
This almost always turn out to be a lie/a huge modification of the truth and this does not look like an exception.
Missouri. "Show me". I've no doubt it's part of their strategy. I just have enough corporate experience to know corp speak and smoke talk. It's their job to tell you and us things like that. Whether the guys/girls actually putting things in the game do it or not is a whole different ball game. If they do, good for them. If they don't, well, you and I will get more spin as to why they "couldn't" do it.
Either way, as I said before, Turbine went from tops on my list to completely off my radar. I'm not down with the Craig Alexander "Monetize Machine". The company was better in my eyes before he (as well as the others who came along and created this new regime at Turbine that has certainly taken them away from the "for our fans" motto) joined in 2007.
i've just checked out the differences between Normal/Premium/VIP members for LotRo when it goes "free" to play, for normal members (those who have never played the game in their life) 95% of the games content has to be purchased, including Ered Luin, Shire etc as quest packs. Premium members (those who return to the game after having one previously) have to pay for about 50% of the content as well as losing a lot of what they take for granted at the moment, 5gold limit unless you purchase a "cap unblocker", i'm sorry but the FREE word doesn't enter into it when they say Free to play, it's becoming a Virtual store game not FTP.
But the difference is that in WOW or EQ2, their shops already assume you are a paying subscriber, and the stuff is truly extra. The Turbine shop to unlock more trait slots or crafting, etc, is for the f2p people without paid subscriptions, who want a bit more a-la-carte. Apparently there will be ways, like in DDO, to earn points to spend within the game, via quest or deed completion, so that new quest zones or storage can be purchased without spending real cash, but it will take a lot of effort. OR, just subscribe and have everything plus 500 points a month to spend on extras.
That's the whole slant on the hybrid system Turbine is going with. For the f2p people, have a game be attractive enough to entice the players to sub, and for those who won't or those who do but want even more fluff, have the store to make MTs for convenience items or a-la-carte unlocks. example: f2p guy hates the Lone Lands so he never pays to unlock the quests there, and goes straight to the North Downs. Or skips Evendim but does want Forochel. Or doesn't care about crafting but does think having max trait slots is necessary. For some people, small MTs like that make perfect sense. Turbine gets some money out of the guy and he's satisfied.
So? How exactly is this pay to win? The cash store is NOT going to allow you to go beyond the cap limits on anything. Ipersonally have 5 lvl 65 toons and furthermore, have a Supreme Master of each crafting class. Are the F2P players going to be able to purchase skills I don't have? I don't think so.
And keep in mind, just because they purchase the skill unlock, they still have to actually WORK to level the skill/craft.
Stop with the term "Free to Play"! Holy Crap! It's not! Free to try? Free to level 10? Free at First?
BTW didnt read every post but what is the plan for Monster play?
F2P will not be able to play as creeps.
I have no respect for turbine any more after this. As far as I am concerned turbine = cryptic now.
Why? Since they made their games free to play? Oh please...come on now, get over yourself. No one is as bad as Cryptic.
I like how Curt Schilling called them Free2Start in a recent MMORPG interview.
You can't spend destiny unless you're a VIP so even if you could log onto your creep it would put a cramp in getting new skills or traits.
I've heard that before. I've played enough F2P games in the past to know thats the way they always tirn out. I have no interest in ever playing a F2P game again and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.
i am sure turbine will miss there monthly fee that they probly will never get back from mooches like yourself who will suck up bandwidth be rude to paying subbers and never spend a dime.
You have to be a VIP (ie subscriber) to have access to the monster side of monster play. So, noone on f2p accounts can roll up creeps. And given the freeps should be at or near cap, any PvMP is pretty much limited to subscribers.
And yeah, the whole f2p is somewhat a misnomer. You can download and play the game free, but it''ll be hard to advance past 20 without a sub or spending some cash to unlock quest zones. Still, a lot of new people will give it a try and obviously Turbine is confident enough will like what they see to either full-out subscribe or at least use the store to purchase some stuff.
Exactly.
Actually before you even start, I am a Life-Time Subscriber of LOTRO and I also played and paid for DDO. I also play and pay for Aion but I also play F2P games and I have no problem with them. So, Turbine has gotten more than enough from me thank you. So, go ahead and quit, no skin off my back. 10 more people will replace you.
Redundant troll is redundant.
It is better than having people like you who will be absolute a-holes to those who are playing it when it came F2P and treating them like dirt.
Sure you do lol
Really? A troll because I paid and play a game that is now going F2P and I have no problem with it? Come on now, stop treating those who don't have money lower than dirt because they are finally happy that a really good game is going to become F2P so they can actual play it without having to worry about money. There is no excuse for the way you and others like to treat those who play f2p games, it is pathetic.
Talk about fixing something that isn't broken. Oh well, guess I'll scratch Turbine off my list of, 'developers with integrity'. It's getting really, really short lately.
Oh and how dare I, one paid subscriber actually don't care. I'll ignore them like I did on Aion, DDO, and every other game I played. You think WoW(which is P2P) doesn't have gold spammers and immature little children. Also, most gold spammers come the United States. Every game has its ups and downs and have people who make the community suck. I learn to ignore them and I have fun, they won't ruin my fun.
Well, they better give me a refund on the Lifetime sub I purchased 10 days ago!
I don't play F2P crap.
Oh and the 500 points a month they say they will give lifers will get you bot all if the DDO store is anything to go by. They should be giving 5000 a month! They're just trying to rip people off imho.
This was a triumph, I'm making a note here... "huge success"... not.
Just read the FAQ and other information related to the change. Frankly this looks like great news to me.
I specifically cited F2P when I last left LoTRO, leaving a detailed comment comparing the game to existing and coming F2P titles. Clearly I'm not the only one to do so. As I've said before, the Guild Wars and the DDO models are the obvious evoluntionary paths for MMOs.
got a lifetime so.... don't really care about that :)
Now that it's free I might play it again. But will I be able to play with my original characters?
wonder what those 500 tokens (Tolkiens?) that i'll be getting each month for being a lifer/founder... (flounder?) buy me from their awesome new turbine store... oh, let it be a warner brothers' porky pig,"that's all folks!" cape.
Maybe I am misreading the article or maybe I'm just stupid, but if you are a subscriber (i.e., VIP), nothing changes, right? You still have access to everything you had before, plus you get the points to spend on fluff too, right?
So... if you are subscribing now, and you continue to subscribe, there's no change. If you stop subscribing, you have to pay for the content that subscribers get as part of their fee.
If that's correct, what's all the crying about in this thread? Just keep doing what you are doing now, and the only change is more people to group with and we get faster updates. Where exactly is the downside? I'm not seeing it.
You are correct.
And why are people crying?
Because that is what people do on the internet...
As a lifer it doesn't look like a bad change to me. I'm not upset by this news at all, hell it might even breath some new life into LOTRO. The only bad thing I see happening is all the assholes that play WoW will now come over. At least there's no PvP so maybe they wont all come.
Alot of these same complaints were expressed when DDO went free to play. Yes there are the occasional douche bags in gereral chat but guess what you find that in any game including pay to play games. DDO didnt have as many because there wasn't anyone playing. People complain "Well now I have to pay for such and such" Guess what if you were not paying a monthly fee you could not even log onto the damn game. If you pay your monthly fee absolutely NOTHING will change except more people to group with and the occasional jack ass in chat to squelch.Now if you want to not pay for 3 months you can still log on and chat with your friends and level a lowbie for FREE. This is not the end of the world believe me I felt the same way about DDO and immediately quit. This simply brings more exposure to the game and believe it or not more revenue for more and quicker content. Even if the new person only spends 10 bucks that is 10 bucks towards development and employees they did not have before. The Froobs will play for a week or two not like the game and move on no harm done. People will gripe, piss and moan, but believe me it's not as catastrophic as it seems. How many long time players PUG anyway, so that aspect won't really affect you. I thnk alot of you need to just step back realize nothing will change if you keep paying and you still can play certain areas even if you dont pay and see what happens.
That's kinda how I read it.. Best I can tell, the biggest difference that the life subs and such will see is.. more people on the servers, which means more money for Turbine, which means a longer service life and more updates for LotRO.. Considering the fairly small pop, kinda get the feel that this was more of a "we make the switch to f2p, or set a go dead date for the servers".
I don't really care, since even though I have a lifetime sub, I haven't played it since SoM came out. I might actually play it again, since with the new people coming in, not everyone will be so stuck up.
On the other hand, the whole basis of "free to play" games is to squeeze as much money as possible from players. I mean, that's how it works. It doesn't try to get $5 from people who only play a little (though they don't mind that), it works by getting tens, hundreds, even thousands of dollars from the hard core players who live for the game.
That's why it's so profitable.
So my concern is that all new content is going to be aimed for the heavy spending types. I already struggle with much of the content in LOTRO, I really hope it's not worse. Even though I have a lifetime sub and should get 500 free points a month, at the same time, in every F2P game, you generally have to spend $30 or so to stay even with the content (in terms of power up and xp potions/liceneses whatever)
Yeah, they might say they aren't Pay to Win. But does any game actually say that? They can't help but not be, as that's the very basis of the free to play model. Anyone who says otherwise is naive.
Everything existing players have they will keep. plus they'll get more fluff and points to buy it. For the f2p it will just be an extended trial to lvl50 without much of the quests.
Note that you wont be able to raid if you dont pay monthly. Premiums only get '1 or 2' traits in each category. No raid will let you join with 1 legendary kill slot. With 5g max gold you cant buy crafted jewelery (a must for endame these days) or good legendary weapons. So even if you buy the xpacs but not the VIP sub you dont raid. So endgame doesnt change at all.
Only VIPs can pvp so pvp doesnt change at all.
Added together all these things are very positive for the game whether you are an existing player or the f2p crowd. All these people rage quitting over this aren't thinking straight. The model seems to be very well thought out.
What happens to the ppl like myself who are canceled atm who have alot more than 5g? I mean does that gold get deleted or locked away or what exactly?
Come on Mike, you should know better by now. Can't expect people to actually read articles to get a clue what theyre talking about, its always just "OMG F2P! RAAAAAAAWR NERD RAGE" and assumptions that every F2P game is exactly the same and sells the exact same things in the cash shop, even though its proven time and time again how different some models are in various games. Ignorance at it's finest <3
I like Curt, and I think he might put out a good game, but until he shows how he's planning to gouge his customers, he should keep his mouth shut on this issue. It is unfair to criticize others when you're not really in the business yet.
Curt is a gamer and a huge mmorger well before his company.I think he will do what he says he will do because the fact is he loves this genre as much as us players do unlike alot of the execs who are nothing but suits and could care less about the actual game.
Everything about the game changes. All of a sudden there is an ingame store selling XP pots, Stat pots, Loot boosters, Res pots, Food buffs etc, etc, etc.
So imagine the scenario, you're invited to a raid and the leader asks 'Has everyone got the Ubber l33t healing pot ?'. 'No' you reply, 'you can only get them on the ingame store and I've used up my 500 points'. 'Oh well, maybe next time' you hear, as they kick you from the group.
So yeah, this game will change fundamentally. Now it's one thing to have no problem with these changes, thats ok. But for anyone to suggest the game will be exactly the same as it is now is just plain silly imho. You cannot tell me that the games company will be able to resist tweaking standard XP gain down in order to sell a few more XP pots for example!
I already had Blizzard and Cryptic to point to when asked for an example of corporate greed in this industry. Now I have another option.
Devs won't re-discover integrity without the industry taking a serious downturn. I think a lot of players are getting very sick of the greed, dishonesty, and incompetence.
Not all of them. Some mock people who express legitimate concerns.
Puh leeze. People will always find a way to be elitist. "You got your Rad gear? No. Fuck off then." Windmills are that way Mr Quixote
Thank god! If only that were true. But don't kid yourself. Raiding at "end-game" (I hate that phrase) is what drives players to speed to max level. The content of the game is between level 1 and max-level, NOT raiding at max-level and earning trinkets to dress up your paper-doll.
But I agree with you that the quality of people playing as a whole will go down since any schmuck can play it.
I am absolutely digusted that they never warned us of this and that lifetime subs aren't granted something extra - especially the group of us that have paid for a lifetime sub within the last year. Honestly - had I gotten my lifetime sub 2 years ago, I wouldn't feel so cheated as I'll have 'made my money' in terms of not paying for a regular sub. I had paid the upfront money knowing I would continue playing the game for the next year and a half based on how the game has been being delveloped. Had I known that this was bound to happen there is absolutely NO CHANCE I would have gotten a life time sub.
I wish the interviewer would have had the foresight to ask about the more pressing question of how the game will change. Anyone that has played both F2P and P2P models know that their is a very large difference between the two communities. LOTRO chat moderation is already absolutely pathetic - and now we'll be filled with all kinds of spam. There are so many fundamental changes that happen when a game changes models.
In short: Absolutely ridiculous.
It's the internet. People love getting their panties in a twist over things that either (a) don't affect them personally, or (b) are not the OMGDOOOOOOOOOOOOOM tragedies they'd like to believe they are.
As someone who's had a Lifetime sub since launch, I think this is pretty sweet. Nothing changes for me, I get free Turbine points every month, plus a bunch more for being a Founder and a subscriber for over three years. Plus, my sub paid for itself after the first year and I've basically been playing for free for over two years now anyway. As far as I can tell, everything in this deal works out in my favor.
Given the number of past promises Turbine has now broken to their players, I don't really care what they say. Even if hooked up to a lie detector, they are full of it. They have gone from being one of the most open and communicative teams to being every bit as bad as most MMO companies.
PS The trolls need to get a grip; People are unhappy because the LotRO team has basically told their loyal customers to go pound sand. They promised 4 updates a year, with this announcement it will now be ~a full year from the last real update to this next one. The devs have left all the current players ignored and stagnated for months on end while they did prep work for this F2P end run, all the while deliberately witholding information and intentionally deceiving the playerbase.
They *know* this is going to piss off a lot of their current players and just don't care because they think will make more money in the long run from the sheeple who will fall for the F2P gimmick. Any lifers they can drive into emorage quitting at the same time is just bonus bandwidth for them.
If you think that is how a company should do business and treat its customers, then you are a doormat.
I beleive free players cna buy extra trait slots iin each category if they wish to raid after buying the expansion content.
Lotro is dead, sure it's going to be "Free to Pay" whoopie! I think what you soon to be "VIPs" are missing is you will no longer just be paying the monthly fee, you will be nickled and dimed to pay more. This is absolute bullshit, want to play the new class? Nope you gotta pay to unlock first. How about a new series of quests? Get out your credit card cause you have to pay to make those quest locks go away!
They always said they cared about immersion and the lore while how true is that going to be when you see NPCs with locks around their head what toppsie-turvy world do we live in where you actually have to pay to help the NPC out. Just wow, if you don't see it yet you never will but you will feel the burn quickly when you realize VIP isn't immune to the cash shop.
I don't think this model will be a huge success for lotro as DDO it is just completely different models. DDO is like a hub game you jump into areas and play, you can't do that in Lotro.
Well w/e I knew WB would screw up Lotro I was dreading the buyout and now I have the news to prove it. Terrible day indeed....
Sadly true but I think alot of us kinda knew when DDO had such success with there cash shop and how Turbine pretty much stopped doin any updates to LOTRO but continued to pump out the payable content for DDO we knew there buisness model was going to change combine that with being bought out by Time-Warner this isn't the same Turbine we dealt with back in AC1 and when lotro came out.I will check it out when it comes out but I will go play EQ2 in the meantime.
And until a good mmog comes out that says hell no to any form of cash shops I will just mooch off all the f2p games.
This is fine by me since I'm a lifer. At least some of the WoW kiddies who invaded DDO will now be split between DDO and LOTRO so we will only have 1/2 of the ridiculousness to deal with. Though Kate specifically said that they would NOT be doing this for LOTRO when they went f2p with DDO. I am also still waiting for Kate's other DDO promises...Druids, Gnomes, Half-Orcs (finally this fall!), housing (promised to be given after LOTRO got it but we still don't have it, though we're about to get guild airship housing), scroll cases, potion belts, throwing weapon sheathes, etc. I'm glad that I paid for LOTRO already, but I'm pissed that they never offered a lifetime sub. for DDO, so I recently had to drop to f2p and now buy all the content so I won't have to pay a sub. every month for the rest of my life.
Oh and don't complain about Turbine focusing on DDO lately; it has been frozen in time for many many months with NO updates of any kind due to the stupid Atari lawsuit. All the while we got nothing in DDO, LOTRO continued to get plenty of updates and perks.
Because they are life time subscribers in a f2p game lol.
And besides, they have 2 separate dev teams, so what gets done on DDO has nothing to do with what gets done on LOTRO.
I can certainly empathize with you there.
I hate the divisiveness that cash shops engender, though, and F2P are even worse in that respect.
Would you pay more for a P2P that absolutely promised NO RMTs at all? I know I would - assuming I could trust the company to keep their word.
What? Lifers get permanent VIP access.
nothing funny about being a lifetime subscription holder with it now going f2p; we don't ever have to pay anything and we get access to everything, just as we always have.
Yeah and whats that? Getting stuff that they could had gotten before ingame. Turbine will remove things from the game or make em hard to aquire and then give em to the vips. It's not actually giving, more like taking and giving back.
For all the people who said LotRO subscriptions were oh-so-healthy, you now see how oh-so-wrong you were. Successful subscription games don't go FTP.
..and some people post just to post.
On topic: I no longer have a reason not to install my copy and play. Maybe I'll actually like it.
You're wrong. DDO showed that F2P model that incorporates a P2P option and a Cash shop are MORE profitable.
This is about DDO showing a new model is better than the conventional model. LoTRO was seeing an increase in subscrition numbers prior to the decision to go F2P.
What aversion do people have to reading and thinking, rather than automatic lambasting? Shire, Ered Luin, and Bree-town quests will not have to be bought. It says in several places that those are automatic for free and premium players. People who have already paid to play (even one month of subscribing) will automatically be considered Premium players, and will not lose any gold, items, etc. that they already have. They will, however, need to choose their 3 character slots they'd like to keep (and if I recall correctly, this is 3 character slots *per server*, of which there are several). Honestly, they're not screwing the prior subscribers as bad as some people seem to think.
As for why DDO/LotRO Turbine points don't cross over, that seems to go along with the 'pay to win' idea, except in this case it's 'play x game for 6 months straight to accumulate points, then go buy up all the cool epic shit and stomp newbies on y game'. Does that make some sense to anyone? No? Then please excuse yourself from any future intelligent discussions.
Blizzard is coming out with Cataclysm this fall, and it looks like Guild Wars 2 may be out before years end.
Turbine had to do something before LotRO officially and permanently slipped into complete MMO irrelevance.
F2p will work better in lotro actually since there isn't pvp in this game. The difference between those who pay and those who don't will not be big. I have a feeling warhammer will be the next to follow but since that game rely heavily on pvp, cash shops might not work so well.
DDO only went free to play because it was either that or die.
Keep telling yourself whatever it takes to make you feel better, though.
This seems to be spot on.
The only problem is going to be how Turbine balances the whole thing. What if it comes to a point where your $15 bucks a month is more than the time it takes for the F2P crowd to get the same content by "working" for the points and unlocking the same content that you're paying for.
I actually think the opposite will be true. It's going to be easier just paying the $15 bucks rather than going throught he hassle.
What does that matter? Regardless of why it was done, it has still been very successful, and now they are trying to to do the same with another game. You say DDO only went F2P cause it was dying, but it has seena huge turn around... so what do you think a similar F2P model could do for a game that actually is for the most part rather succesful?
Think about it. If dying DDO saw I believe it was like a 500% increase in players and profit from the time they switched to F2P, what would happen if a huge game like WoW did the same? Sure there may be some who would leave it due to the change, but just think if WoW saw anywhere near a 500% increase in profit from the switch, would be insane.
goes f2p, so.... FAIL
Frodo dead.
Exactly. Except it's quite possible (as it is in most F2P games) that the Uber l33t healing pot is necessary to do the raid in question. As are all the buffs you get from the various potions.
But Turbine is as pure as the driven snow. They'd never stoop to such things. Especially when they have an easy to exploit mechanic already in place. Radiance potions, anyway?
Hoo RAY!
TYVM, Turbine!
My dear Bambi! Are we still going? Do not degrade someone because they do not have money and you do. That is not right. GW is a GREAT game and GW2 will be an awesome game. I've got GW and I am getting GW2 and no, my mommy and daddy aren't paying for anything. Get OVER yourself. You are no better than those trolls who will show up on LOTRO when it goes F2P, actually you are worse than those trolls, I can stand them. It is people like you who I can't stand.
I'm not sure but can someone tell me if they will be doing a wipe when it goes f2p of all the current subscriber's characters? If not or if they are can you please provide a link
Wow.. I'm surprised. I stopped playing LotRO awhile back but it's way too good and solid to be F2P.. I think this game will change the stimga associated with being F2P because it's an uber solid game. I for one.. will probably go back to this MMO as I wait for Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV once LotRO is free to play...
There is hardly no reason not to try it if you haven't. And even if you have you might want to install it for some random fun every once in awhile... cool
I believe the Tolkien estate ought to have a say in this.
They didn't do it with DDO, so why would they do it for LOTRO?
They didn't? Two of my friends told me his toon's got wiped. Led me believe that might be that happened
My character didn't get wiped when Turbine made DDO f2p, if you cancel for awhile, I hear Turbine just wipes your characters.
If you are playing now, then you must be subscribing to the game already, so if you continue then you will not lose anything.
The F2P thing here is nothing more than a glorified free trial that virtually all MMOs have, but gives greater options.
If you want to drop down to the free to play, then you will lose some stuff, but if stopped subscribing to the game now, then you won't be able to play at all.
I pay for SWG too, and can also play 14 day free trials for that which only gives me a limited amount of credits, can't place any strcutures, level cap of 25 etc I still pay the monthly fee for SWG as don't want any restrictions, although a CL 25 Entertainer still helps me out!
So even games like SWG that are not Free to play, are still pay to win when you sub to it, and not leech off the free trials
This actually excites me a bit. I have a lifetime that I rarely use lately, but with it going F2P I can now try and tempt my fiance into joining me. I think she'd like crafting since she's into all that FB farming and stuff.
Besides that I think adding more people to the game is good in general. Yes you'll get a couple idiots, but there are plenty of paying idiots and jerks in every premium AAA title I've played in already. Along with the new idiots you'll also get some non-idiots. You'll also get some people that wouldn't normally even play such games and among that group there will also be good and bad apples.
So basically subscribers and lifers are only getting positive action points from this change as well as introducing more players. More players means more possible friends, more grouping opportunities, more money to improve the game, more money to extend the life of the game you love, etc.
Seems like a win-win-win situation to me.
I've never been a "search is your friend" forums cop, but GEEEZ people! Even when the information and facts are right in front of you, you still believe just the opposite is going to occurr, guess that's why Palin is so popular in this country...lol
Mike, Mike, Mike. You should know by now that the mantra "Play to Win" is only uttered by reactionary rage-o-holics who rail against F2P just for the sake of arguing.
"Play to Win" only makes sense in the context of PvP anyway. Since for all intents and purposes, LOTRO has no PvP, I don't get how someone could "Play to Win". What does amount to PvP in LOTRO -- Monster play -- will only available to VIPs anyway, and everyone gets the same number of points to spend in the mall.
As a lifetime member, I am so psyched about this. I can't wait. I hope they can re-create the DDO phenomenon. I have more faith in Turbine/WB now more than ever.
So I'm going back and forth between the Black Prophecy game as a f2p game, andnow LotRO as a f2p game, and just checking off those that so venemously denounced anything to do with f2p contecpts, regardless of the business model or item shop; oops.
Looks like someone pee'd in some folks pure snow.
<p>Can't believe how people can find something positive by going F2P. I've friends who played the game guess what? All canceled today. This is not a small move its big move and a completely new business plan for current customers. I'm sure this one has been forced by Warnberbrothers. Lotro will never ever my game had one of the best post 2005 communities I've ever experienced so its a shame that they'll soon have to deal with a bunch of idiots.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>@LTA: You guys really believe this 500 points/month are enough to buy everything at this stupid cash shop? No way so unless they can't buy everything there for those 500 points its a LOSE situation and don't get me started with BS like its even fluff items doesn't matter, there will be items even VIP's have to pay for and I'm not talking about addons, more on things like mounts, furniture and stuff like that. And YES I actually do care becauser people accepting this fucking crap will lead to more and more F2P modells and I don't wanna have to deal with them in my genre.</p>
I am glad that they found a way to bring more people into Lotro. I left Lotro because the population is so small making it difficult to find people to do group quests with. Now hopefully, when this goes into effect, that problem will be solved.
What an unfortunate change, LOTRO community will suffer a drastic change from now on.
It's a win-win for them though - current subscribers will have to fork out additional money (really, $9 a month for the promotional sub that becomes occasionally available was that much?) for item shopping. They will expose their product to a huge wave of customers in this new freemium format (F2P is really misleading for a game that you will still have to purchase expansions, adventure packs, and other kinds of content besides the usual functional, convenience and cosmetic items you will be offered (over 2500 items, there's probably $500 or more to be spent in there...).
Unless F2P has reached the saturation point yet, a thing we have seen happening with monthly subscription MMOs lately, because I still believe it can reach a saturation point, especially as people notice how potentially more expensive the genre can be for someone willing to have a complete experience (having a heard time? it can be easier with the selectional of consumables, enhancers and whatever else will be available) - when will P2P developers finally incorporate hourly pre-paid plans for the casual gamers or the ones that want to enjoy more than one MMO without the pressure of the monthly set time subscription?).
some of us did not get the lifetime sub at launch. i got mine last year dyring their second anniversary....and yes this pisses me off to no extent.
LOTRO has always had a great community, very helpful, down to earth, and more mature than most games. This i fear will change it drasticly.
Mixed feelings on this, but not because it's going f2p. My mixed feelings are from the fact that in DDO you do not get the base game for free. As I saw on the tier chart for lotro's upcoming business model, some quests you had as part of the base game will be "pay-for" quests with the new business model unless you sub.
Okay, I know what you're going to say. Just keep subbing! But the whole point of f2p is that if you can't or don't want to pay a sub to the game for a given month, you can still play it and have a complete game. This is not the case in either of Turbine's f2p models, which is why I'm having mixed feelings.
Seriously, what I absolutely LOVE about most posts/comments on this article is the sheer about of misinformed statements made regarding this new decision by Turbine. I am now going to explain what this means to people that do NOT want to play F2P LotRO: Keep paying the subscription fee. Seriously. That's ALL you have to do. The changes you WILL see are the following:
1) Increase in population.
You either like this idea or hate it. If you don't like an increase in player-base, then why on earth on your playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game? Larger population has many perks, the most-important one this: MONEY. More money for Turbine equals more content for LOTRO, better maintenance, more issues addressed, etc... However, larger population also means that there will be a larger number of people to ruin the game...if you let 'em. My advice is to NOT let this Rt@rds ruin a game you play. Find a good kinship...stay in that kinship...avoid the riff-raff.
2) Minor UI changes.
The changes I speak of will, of course, be the LOTRO store access. People have complained that you will be able to buy your way to the top of LOTRO using the in-game store. This is a misconception. For those that believe this go play DDO...right now...seriously. You will find that it, in fact, does NOT ruin the game in any way. In fact, it's pretty cool/interesting.
3) More chat in General, Regional, OOC, and/or Advice.
Seriously, the chat at the moment is pretty bad...at times. The first thing I do when creating a new character is immediately leave the General, Advice, OOC, and Regional channels. People may say to this, "Yeah, well it's going to get worse, pal!" Well, it won't for me because....you know...I don't *listen* to those channels anyway. This falls under the *Not Letting Others Ruin My Game* section.
Folks, if you don't like what Turbine is doing with LOTRO, then just continue (or start) paying the 15 bucks per month. It allows full-content access, with no limitations. Don't make this out as something bad. This can only help LOTRO. This game will still be LOTRO, which still isn't for everyone. This is because of the LORE. The Lore is what makes this game more for adults, and/or serious-minded teens (if those exist, that is...I've heard rumors :P).
Also, to the one that stated that F2P games are only made up of riff-raff and the *wrong* type of players is completely off-base. Stop being an egotistical jerk and come to realize that just because you *enjoy* paying 15 bucks per month (no matter if you play less one month than on other months), doesn't mean that those of us that enjoy playing a free game periodically are somehow *detrimental* to the community in some way. We work for our money same as you, bub. We just like enjoying ourselves for free if there is a way.
I think we all need to give this a chance BEFORE criticizing it. All the DOOM and WOES being thrown around are completely unfounded. I, for one, am looking forward to this change...and, so does my wallet. :P
Peace to all.
"Turbine Points purchased for the DDO Store will not be valid in the LOTRO Store and vice-versa, they are entirely separate."
:(
Dude...you *totally* get the base game for free. You download it, create an account, log-in, and play. I've done this. So has my son, wife, and daughter. I'm not sure which game your speaking of, but it certainly is NOT DDO.
Also, once you buy an *area* or dungeon to quest in, it's yours for the life of the account. Period. You don't have to re-buy it, or anything like it.
In LotRO, you have access to the *ENTIRE game...just not the content within the areas. Playing a free account? Want to play up until the Lone Lands area? Then, just talk to the first quest-giver in Lone Lands, and purchase the content in the entirety of the Lone Lands. VOILA! Now, the Lone Lands is open to you. Want to adventure in the Trollshaws? Guess what?? *See above steps. Repeat.*
It's a *very* easy process. F2P is the future. We old fogies are gonna have to *get with it*. :P
*Depending on whether or not you own the expansions, that is...*
Or could be why Obama got elected?
Anyways, on topic. I'm a lifetime founder and I don't really have a beef with how things are going. I play DDO a little here and there and feel they did a nice job with it. I expect the same with LOTRO and I am actually a bit more excited about it since I have already seen the good things that happened with DDO. I just wish I got maybe just a little more Turbine Points a month, like 750 - 1000 but I guess 500 isn't too bad.
I think we will all be pleasantly surprised at how well this move turns out to be.
I always wondered how they were going to keep interest long enough to play out the entire story line given that they were parcelling out bits of middle-earth one or two times a year.
Got my answer: they're not.
Well, now I'll just hope for a developer to make a sandbox middle-earth I can play in, instead of a theme park that launched before the entire rollercoaster ride was completed.
They didn't? Two of my friends told me his toon's got wiped. Led me believe that might be that happened.
What probably happened in DDO with your friends toon's were that they were Monk or Warforged. Both of which have to be bought so yea if that's what they were then yes, but they should have gotten a pop up along the lines of 'you have a unplayable race, do you wish to buy?', any who 'poof' if they didn't. The other option was the toon's were very low level still on the starter island types. Those should get wiped from time to time no matter if it's P2p or F2p. AoC did a level 1-5 toon wipe on inactive accounts fall? last year. It just cleans up the servers.
I had a level 3 Dwarf over in Stormreach, hadn't played for 6 months and he was still there so that would be item one in your LotRO toon's being safe.
Also, and of course I can't find it now with all these multiple threads, but there was an interview posted where the person specifically talked about Runemaster and Warden (which I have) and said if you had one before, because you had the MoM expansion, then you'd still have it after the switch to F2p, which leads me to believe my guy and my son's will still be there.
I am really not into F2P games or the milking business model that is part of the process into major suckage of my income. Have fun with that kids.
If DDO is any measure LOTRO fans have lots to look forward. Tons of changes making your game easier like DDO gets in each update. Nerfs to make the long time Vets weaker so the F2P stop whining(even though DDO is not a PVP or competetive PVE game).
You also get the added benefit of mostly low and mid level content in your updates because Turbine goes by metrics telling them when most characters either stop getting played or what level a large number usually are and tailor the next update entirely towards them in hopes they buy said content in the store, adding the epic difficulty and pretending this makes high level characters happy.
Yes LOTRO players you have plenty to look forward to, your nice mature community will never be the same. My DDO ignore list gets longer any given week then it did in the first 3.5 years I played that game. Not to mention that since it is F2P the people griefing and causing trouble never really have to leave as they can just start a new free account and continue what they did then.
Sadly F2P/hybrids like this do seem to be the future and if so the future of MMOs is full of angry, hate filled people who use the anonimity of the internet to act out their sad little lives. At least when my game was P2P those people had to pony up some cash to annoy me, now Turbine invites them into all of their games. Normally when your home gets infested with vermin you get rid of them, Turbine builds them an addition and then caters the new content to them.
This is an interesting trend in the industry. Instead of fixing player issues, ensuring that your game continues to prodive content worthy of the monthly fee, just throw the game in F2P, strip away most the content and figure out various ways to charge a lot more for it, and then only allow those with VIP (paying the monthly fee) to have the same content you had before but not even offer more. I didn't have too much a problem paying 9.99 for the game, but the problem was it became stagnant and the adventure pack (nickle diming) was telling me that Turbine would never be satisfied with just a monthy fee. They just want more and more for less and less.
Actually it is more likely due to the Hasbro/Atari lawsuit rather than the Turbine/Atarri lawsuit; with Hasbro trying to revoke the D&D franchise away from Atari, it would be foolish for Turbine to spend a money in continued development until they see whether or not Hasbro wins. If Hasbro wins (which seems like the most likely outcome), there's a very good chance they might make Turbine pull the plug. Until a court decision is made, or some kind of settlement between Atari and Hasbro happens (I wouldn't hold my breath on that one), don't expect much in the way of continued development for DDO.
I'm thinking this as good an opportunity to kick Turbine to the curb for awhile and get back into WoW when cata hits.
I'm a lifer. So I'll still log in once a month to keep the perks. Wait for time and tide and Turbine to finally toss ole Gollum and the ring in the lava. Then consider heading back.
I always hoped Turbine might actually use some of the money I gave them to design new areas for further game development. But I was wrong. Looks like they used my funds to design toll booths and a take what the consumers are willing to pay scheme.
So I would just like to say thanks to all the new free to play players who are going to foot the bill to the top of Mt.Doom.
BTW no one tell the free to play peeps that parts of their cash will be going to go fund new WB Harry Potter wands long before Turbine will ever get to Mt.Doom.
Last thought I think this tune is very apropro. This tune is kind of how I hear Turbine everytime they open their pie holes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mW1ZKrs7ag
Good interview. Thanks for asking that question. If they stick with this approach, I'll give it a shot. I don't mind paying for things that are truly optional--i.e. not necessary to compete.
The RMT models I dislike give players a competitive advantage and/or are added on top of a subscription fee. With the success of DDO, maybe some MMO publishers are getting the message. Gives me more hope for the genre.
Welcome to the Buisness Side of MMO Gaming...I dont particularly Like F2P games..But I do understand that it dosent matter what Corprate robots do weather it be a good thing or a bad thing there is always gonna be people out there that dont like the idea...Companys can and will never be able to satify every customer they have..Its impossible...Thats buisness...But there is ONE thing I DONT understand...I thought LoTrO was doin good..Why are they changing it in the first place??? And are you able to play your old characters if you resubscribe???
The DDO store absolutely sells things that give an advantage in game over people who do not spend money. Stat potions that stack come to mind. Spell Point potions that can only be bought on the AH that people got in quests are sold in the DDO store in large numbers. Both of these things can give an advantage and I am sure the LOTRO store will follow suit.
Not sure if it was asked yet, and didn't see it mentione din the interview but I think one of the most imortant things to consider is this:
Will you be able to earn points to get cash shop credits through simply completing certain tasks in the game like DDO allows with Favor, or will the only method of obtaining points be either paying for them or the monthly amount from subscription?
If they do allow you to earn them, just like DDO, theres really no room for anyone to complain about needing to pay for anything in LOTRO, since it could all be gained through simply playing the game. If not, then yeah this does kind of suck for those who have been subbing the whole time since they may need to pay the sub + added costs of buying other things.
You can say that, we have to pay per month or one large amount like me just a few weeks ago and they can only pay a small amount and get the same stuff for only paying once! Its just not fair and it will destroy the game fun for most! Look, now alot of kids will come and play on an rp server and kill the fun! Look at DDO! It happened there too! Whats fun when your rping and some moron kid comes by and starts ruining it? And who says those 500 points is worth anything? They themselves claim its not for win win situations! And then again, they messed up by giving us the oppertunity to get the lifetime sub and a week later do this! Thats bad and even here where I live, I can ask for money back and termination of my contract with them!
So, if they get it from playing the game and yes it can be done, read the forums for the answer, why did I have to buy the lifetime? They can get it for free by playing the game! Im fucked and I didnt even like it!
Jungleninja, if it is like DDO earning enough points to have everything you want will take a mindnumbing amount of grinding. Seriously the amount of people willing to grind for enough points will be miniscule at best.
Your lifetime sub may by you access to all of the content without having to purchase anything else, but there will be other things added in besides just unlocking content. The lifetime sub wont give you unlimited XP pots or stat pots or whatever (that werent even in the game when you got your sub), youll still have to either buy (or earn if possible) things like that. You also have access to other things such as bigger inventory, more character slots, etc with your sub which F2P will need to eithe rearn or pay for.
Plus, if it is like DOO in that aspect, it will likely require a pretty steep grind to earn enough points for everything if youre 100% free. Personally, id rather shell out the $ for the lifetime sub than have to spend months grinding to unlock the stuff that sub buys me.
This. This is the kind of egotistical nonsense that ruins game communities...not because of the F2P. Attitude that *only* kids will play a free game.
Milking business model? In a later post you stated that Turbine has sold out...that they (companies) care naught for their customers. Do you have any idea how a company actually works? True, they're out to make money. Isn't that the reason you go to work? (assuming you work...I assume you do...) To do that they *have* to do the following:
1) Care for their customers.
or
2) Act like they care for their customers. And, if they *act* like they care for us, then they're actions will prove it. So, if their actions show that they care, even though they're *acting*, isn't the end-result the same? I mean, if their actions are good for *us*, doesn't that mean that we have been *cared* for?
So, in synopsis we see that if we (the customers) are being cared for (i.e., getting a good product that provides us with what we want, in this case entertainment), then the company is being *good* to us because they *care*.
To be quite honest, I'm glad that the F2P will hopefully *weed out* the egotistical peeps like yourself. Because we *want* to play a good game...for free...doesn't mean that we're kids or that we'll *ruin* you community. Well, unless the community has attitude like you've demonstrated. In that case, we'll be happy to *ruin* it :)
Yes I agree the DDO store does sell things that give players an advantage for buying them. I did buy some of the items when i played ddo. But what whay i understand from turbine them selves. Turbine points can be earn thru game play. While you are at a small disavantage because it will take longer to get these items. You are not at a complete disavantage, because you can get them without ever spending a dime.
Also, with the ability to earn turbine points in game, that is probaly why they are not alowing them to go to other games.
All i have to say other then that. Is i like this idea. I love lotro but never got around to buying it. I believe this is a good thing for the game, and if you dont like it (and dont already have a life time subscription) then dont play it. I do like the idea of what they are doing for the lifetime sunscribers, and i think it is fair. Plus why are yall whining it is there game, they are breaking no contracts, and are doing nothing wrong. No matter they did, no mattter what when ever you change or add something someone wont like it.What gets me is how so many companies wouldn't touch MMOs with a 10 foot pole, even with EQ1's success.
Along comes WoW showing that MMOs can make money and, boy oh boy did the companies suddenly take notice and decide it's where they want to be.
So, now it's the usual routine of finding out every possible angle they can come from to milk every player as much as they possibly can.
I will again refer to the panel that mmorpg.com hosted where one of the panelists stated, unequivocally, that microtransactions allow the developer to monetize the players for potentially much more than a $15 sub.
That is what it's all about, folks. It's not about them trying to find a way to make it more convenient for people to play without the sub. They're doing it because they know it will allow them to nickel and dime players for a lot more than a sub fee would ever get them... All while repeating the "Free to play!" mantra over and over again.
If anyone seriously thinks they're going to play a F2P MMO at the same level, or with the same access as they can a subscription-based MMO without paying a dime, because the developers say so? Yeah... I've got some land I'd like to sell you.
It's no longer about making a game that players will want to stick with for years and pay their sub fees and the expansion costs because they enjoy the game. Now it's about getting as much $$$$ as they can, as quickly as they can before the players move on.
I agree that mmo's are now all about getting as much money as they can. Thats what pretty much everything in the world is about. It was only a matter of time untill it games were all about making money.I found a really good link here that explains a lot about how good this has the potential to be. If you don't feel like following the link I'll just post what I found was most interesting in the article below. The article is about the DDO relaunch.
How Turbine Supercharged DDO by Adopting a Hybrid Business Model
Launch Results
WHile all of that is true, gameplay itself has suffered and the next update is even worse. Turbine is now working very hard to appease the same customers who ignored their game for 4 years. I understand money drives decisions, but DDO is now a bigger game not a better one and each update to me has had less quality then the old ones. New Quests seem more lineart and less inventive.
Is DDO making money? Yes. Is DDO a better game? To me the answer is a resounding no.
Wait...so you mean that major game developers, all of whom are multi-million dollar (or bigger!) corporations, are in the process of transitioning from one successful business model (i.e., the traditional monthly sub) to a newer, more lucrative model because recent consumer trends have shown them that this is what people do? Shocking!
Pass the smelling salts. There are an awful lot of people getting the vapors.
We live in an age where microtransactions are a part of gaming for every other genre. Just look at the track download markets for Rock Band and Guitar Hero, for fuck's sake. Look at all the DLC and fluff content (i.e., avatar costumes and props, icons, themes, etc.) that game companies make money off of on the XBox Live Marketplace and the PSN. Look at the wild success of browser games like Farmville and Mafia Wars. Consumers have repeatedly shown that they are willing to buy the content they want when they want it, even in addition to things like XBox Live Gold membership fees.
Why anyone is shocked that this trend would bleed over to the MMO genre is beyond me.
wow, so If I take a dump in a bag, and write V.I.P. on it, does that mean I can make a forture too!?
Only if you have an in bag store to sell toilet paper.
Well, there goes our friendly, mature, drama-free playerbase full of RPers and helpful people. Here come the WoW-heads.
I feel like I wasted $200 on my lifetime sub 'cause if the paradigm shifts from great community to what every other MMO is nowadays, I'll be completely done with MMOs.
How does a subscription fee keep the WoW-heads out? WoW costs $15/month to play.
DDO has had 5 major updates to LOTRO's 1 since the relaunch. Also, it's your OPINION that DDO is not better now. To others it has become better.
Switching to a F2P format makes me think the game is losing people playing the game. Sounds like marketing to try to bring back people to play.
This has to make LoTRs one of the big MMO's for 2011.
I can see that some people are very upset with the current turn of events and this can be understandable, you are happy playing and happy how things are going. But by going free to play it opens the option for people that have less time to play or like to dip in and out without feeling they have waisted their money cause they only played a few times that month.
But more importantly if this does as well as DDO did then it means more content and more work on the world. Though I do wonder if they wont find they are competing now with DDO rather than other sub based MMO's. Could the new buisness model mean people leave DDO for LotRs casue they have similar price plans but is a better game. Or will the new players come from the sub based MMO's where people would prefere this payment model over 15 bucks a month for a game that might feel more like a second job than a fun hobby.
I play LOTRO, trust me...if the community is mature...and helpful....and friendly, I'm on the wrong server because there have been nothing but jerks on my server.
You should of stopped playing MMOs a LONG time ago because all the games have people in the communities that are a-holes. There is not one game that is perfect. Nothing is going to change, so there will be no problem.
You must play on Landroval, too...
I play on Landroval and my experience has been nothing but pleasant. In 2 years' time, I've only had to /ignore one player. In 3 years on City of Heroes, I /ignored 63 (on Virtue. Before I moved there from Guardian, I must have /ignored at least one a day) and on Guild Wars, which I've played since Prophecies launched, I've /ignored close to 300. If you guys are having that many bad experiences on Landroval, you must be trolling and griefing the RPers.
It sounds to me like Turbine found a good system that works both for them and the players. I don't mind a F2P model as long as you don't have to buy the game + pay sub + buy extra fluff. Turbine seems to have found a sensible model with DDO and are now expanding on it. It finally gives me a chance to check out LOTRO hehe. Cool beans.
Maybe you two met each other ;)
FTP scam format is something I will never play. As someone else well put, I will not play a "pay to win" game. Give me my monthly sub and let me know my cost upfront. FTP just attempts to scam people out of as much cash as possible. It's a commercial scam, nothing more.
I feel bad for all the lifetime subscribers. I was soured on LOTRO after I had canceled and Turbine decided a few months later to start charging my credit card for 3 month subscription (I didn't even have the game installed any longer). I then hear all the problems people have with DDO selling player information, and add scams.
First I could care less on the amount of updates. DDOs content in said updates is very little. Also I clearly said it was my OPINION, never said it was a FACT. To most of the vets I play with(we tend to play with people like ourselves) the game has gone downhill in terms of quality and difficulty. Two things that attracted us in the first place.
F2P absolutely brings in worse people. There are people who would never buy a game and pay a subscription that will not DL the game to cause problems and be the worst mankind has to offer. There is no debate about the simple fact that F2P always has the worse community.
There are technical gaming issues too.
Player populations tend to be huge in the beginning levels, but as you progress, the people will leave because of "paid content" and like you said "pay to win" item shops.
As the free to play model invite you just to hop from game to game without any serious investment in money/time, these games will stay on the HD's, but will rarely see longer periods of actual played time.
It will all come down to a very thinned out high end content population which will make the game unbalanced and even unplayable in its more interesting parts.
Without the planned return on investement from developpers expect a LOT of underdevelopped products too.
I hope Blizzard will combine play of all their products through BattleNet with one fixed sub fee (a kind of SC2-D3-WOW-newMMO) for 20+ dollars something.
As the so called FTP will be a very bad thing for the complete fiield (from investement to players).
Both Lotro/DDO as AAA titles would never have been developped with a FTP model industry.
Yes, the Tolkien estate will say "just give us the check"
If you look on the LOTRO Website it gives a nice graph of all the benefits and FAQ's, I do have one question tho as I just bought my copy of LOTRO yesterday (before this was announced) Would it benefit me to use my seral code now or wait? Really quite annoyed that I spent £15 on this just to find out I didn't need too :P!
Anyway I think that this game will benefit from this change and I think this may start a trend with the less popular MMO's like Warhammer Online.
First, F2P with VIP parts and shop is the future. There can be little doubt about this, so if you really stick with classic monthly fee games, there will be few left soon. Maybe none at all. I admit I am not too thrilled about it, but I won't condemn a game because of it. I am going to see in the specific game how it works out and not make any prejudice before even seeing it in action.
Second: guys, you really should READ an interview. About half of the folks here say thing which are the exact opposite of what was said in the interview. I mean, you can always claim they are liars, but it doesn't help if you only project your ideas of how it will be over what they SAY it will be. I assume a lot of people here don't actually care about reality but only to go through their emotional tantrum.
I agree totally - I dont like the 'type' of player that wants something for nothing - they didn't have the balls in the first place to give the game a go when it cost them - now that they can play for free their attitude to the game and other paying players will be "who gives a crap if I behave like an a'hole I can always move on to the next f2p with no cost to me"
They have millions of dollars at stake. You do the math.
They. But not you. =P
From the Turbine report:
If subscribers are a revenue baseline, the free to play customer averages to 70% the revenue/player of a subscription player. However, post launch the subscription + micro user averaged to 175% revenue/player under the old system.------
---
There's my problem; subscribers (and lifetime I assume), are being leveraged by this system most. Based on their own data, they expect us to pay more. Tell me how this doesn't factor into design decisions being made at all levels. It isn't as simple as some make it out to be. The game will be designed to get you to spend extra money, as they've learned it works. So, yes, this appears to hurt subscribers.
Its not F2P. Its more like demo is free, pay to play the game. Where F2P content is the demo.
I will have to PAY to do quests (among other things), so I am also paying to get rewards from this quests so I am paying for game content anyway. Whats the point ...
I know, I don't have to do the quests or crafting, I can just farm and farm and farm... and we all know thats fun !
As if MMOs industry wasn't already a sham as it is, now this F2P (aka P2W) b*****t spreading everywhere like ebola.
Problem is: Greed and Incompetency. As more and more weekend-developers fail at delivering real AAA MMOs, suits get greedier and greedier and incense us with their lies. Same s***t as with the banks and their "innovative financial products" that should have benefited consumers. Go figure. Too bad Mmo sites and papers on their paycheck try to lure us with lies too.
Pity. Turbine was an exception and their products were always polished and fun. With Warner Bros in and stock-options managers at the lead, we're served the meal.
Thanks for the info on Monster play. Now I dont have to worry about finding time to check back in with lotro agian or the rest of the "Free2try" item mall, grind games.
THe discussion was fun to read though thanks for the entertainment and my heart goes out to you "lifetimers". ouch.
Funny all the threats to quit threads. Turbine knows that this will increase the paying playerbase, it has worked well with DDO. Personally I like the item shop in DDO, I don't play it much so I can pay for the content I want and I spend far less than a sub would cost. There is no I win button in the item shop in DDO and I don't expect one in Lotro.
Turbine does f2p far differently than we find in the eastern designed games, where the I win button is prevalent throughout the item shops.
Despite the many negative posts, this was a good business decision by Turbine whether you like it or not. There will actually be people to play with in the lower areas again.
So Us lifetime members get it good to start off with. We get 500 points a month just for logging in. That is ok, nothing is going to change for my account at re-launch or they are actuall calling it launch.
However what will be the real cost moving forward?? We know in DDO you got to play x number of hours to get points.
My real quesion is, when the next update comes around how many points will you need to unlock the new content??
Anybody got an idea of how many points you will need. So I see the item shop and points as this, a new revenue stream to keep the game going.
All I can say its a shame they had to save the game via this route, when they could have pulled radaince out and done something about LI's, in order to pull the folks back in who had left due to MOM and SOM being so unpopular.
Oh well it will be a win win for turbine, I am not so sure it will be a win win for us lifetimers as we move forward.
Oh Well. Having had a job since I was 14 years old I have seen what MBA's have done to corporate America. One company I worked for was a great place to be until the MBA's took over. Now that have taken over gaming. Well so long LOTRO and F you MBA's.
Being a non-subscriber this is great news for me, but like when DDO made the switch it ended up burning a lot of their previous paying customers, a few I know to the point of vowing to never play their game again.
Seems to me the same thing is about to happen here with LotR. They will lose most of the people who have been supporting them all this time, and slowly but surely regain new players over time.
No ammount of compensation is going to change a persons mind, since it's an unwelcomed change for most, but in LotR's defense it does sound like they are trying to adress those problems created when DDO made the switch, but still not the biggest one; Month2Month players who used to have it all are now forced to actually spend more in a shorter timespan for the same game. Those seemed to be the ones who got burned the most and it sounds like they will be again.
[quote] [i]Originally posted by MikeB[/i] [quote] [b][i]Originally posted by Regomar[/i] [/b] [b][b]They just lost this current subscriber. I dont play Pay to Win games.[/b][/b] [b] [/b] [/quote] [b]Did you read the interview? I asked them explicitly about the "Pay to Win" scenario, and it's part and parcel of their strategy to ensure that players are not able to "Pay to Win," this was made painfully clear by Turbine's Craig Alexander during our panel at PAX East as well.[/b] [/quote]
Mike? Did you even read your own article?
It's painfully clear to me that you've reported that the "I WIN" button is already available in the Starter Areas via "The Starter Pack", which you stated,
"Generally, the only time you will really see gear available in the LOTRO Store will be as “Starter Packs” which give new players a little bit of a leg up in the very early parts of the game."
Their toe is already across that line. Just a matter of applying the "Boiling Frog" technique to slowly get more and more over that line. Next we'll have new "$OE card Game PACs" available each month, just pony up those TurbineBucks folks!
Oh and "LOTRO Executive Producer (formerly Senior Producer on DDO) Kate Paiz", who we we're just introduced to YESTERDAY, who has been Exec Prod for over A YEAR NOW.....a year that's shown us miserably slow fixes as well as dismally minor expansions, where's she from? Oh, yeah, the "brains" behind intro'ing F2P/RMT to DOO, and before that she was with There(tm)", the now defunct and CLOSED/failed Social micro-transaction MMO...yep two whole jobs in the industry. Kate who?
"I asked Kate about what went into making this decision for LOTRO, and she responded that one major factor was the runaway success of the re-launch of Dungeons & Dragons Online, which resulted in “a significant uplift In player participation, in interested in the title, and in activity community participation.” Turbine looked at that and basically decided that it was really a no brainer for LOTRO given all the aforementioned benefits, and of course, this change results in making the game much more accessible to many more players."
Corporate-speak translation of "runaway success of the re-launch of Dungeons & Dragons Online, which resulted in “a significant uplift In player participation, in interested in the title, and in activity community participation.".....
Runaway success= "we just managed to just save our biscuits in saving this game as it was spirally towards it's death.
“a significant uplift In player participation, in interested in the title, and in activity community participation.”= We made more money from more people, by nickling and diming folks to death, but less folks stuck with the title...
What works for DDO may not work for LotRO...I think I see different demographics between a "never-ending story "IP and one with a finite ending, not to mention the differences in the engines/setups of the 2 games they've already admited.
What it boils down to me in a nutshell is, LotRO releases in China around the same time it goes F2P, and Asain MMO financial model that works well there....they consider us "collaterral damage" on the "chance" they will get flooded with new players there.
Can you say NGE.......oh, yeah significant overhaul to the engine/program that they've already admitted having been in the process. (past tense)
Turbine as already seen the last money they will ever get from me. If an expansion cannot be purchased with TurbineBucks that I've accrued as a LTS (don't get me started on that) in time for it's Release, then SoM is the last I'll ever see.
I will also point out that these are the same folks who told us and I quote. "F2P will not be comming to lotro" in the lotro forms several times.
So when I see them saying this will not happen, I have to question it. I am sorry but I don't trust turbine. Once again being caught in a lie, and here I thought it was just stefell, but it apears to be status quo for them.
We already know that new content is going to cost points, and we already see whats happening in DDO, so yes I question everthing at this point. Now it becomes a game of wait and see. At this point I don't trust anyting turbine has to say. I am now in the prove it to me camp.
For every 15 buck sub they lose they'll let 2-4 new players who will spend collectively 2-3x as much a month. Turbine have a great business model with their f2p, premium, and vip subscrition types.
Great for them! And I wouldn't be surprised to see more games employing a similar hybrid business model in the future.
Yey for innovation!
I do not think you are understanding his complaint, which is justified. He paid a lot of money up front for an unlimited access account. The ONLY money he should have to pay is for paid expansions. A life time subscriber should get total store access with no point cost, ie for free, that is what they paid for after all.
From this perspective they are screwing the Life Time Subscribers.
I agree this model is growing and in fairness if you START this way then I do not have an issue with it. However to have players literally pump hundred of dollars into the game and then tell them, hey we are gonna make the system for pay different now is lame.
As I said above life time subscribers should be given total access with the exception of paid expansions. They should get everything in the Turbine Store for free, they are have already paid for it. To do less is basically a bait and switch.
Players that have been paying for YEARS should get a nice turbine point bonus when the game goes F2P to say thank you for supporting the game.
Failure to do this shows Turbine is just like every other MMO company, all about the money.
I love Turbine's decision to go F2P with LoTRO. I don't think LoTRO received the the amount of exposure it deserved before because of the more casual playing style. PvP was more dynamic than most MMOs and social aspects were more dominate in LoTRO. Music concerts and houses added things that were becoming a rarity in MMOs.
Now that it's F2P, more players will be able to enjoy these aspects that LoTRO has to offer and maybe realize how much of a powerful impact having these options can have in making a MMO more of a social experience. And as far as I can see with the pricing table, it seems to mimic DDO in some regards. This allows players on a tight budget to not only price their experience, but also allows them to enjoy both games without the pressure of traditional monthly cost.
I think it's a win/win for older paying LoTRO players as they wil get more players, while not losing out on current content options. Honestly I do not see why anyone has an issue with such a sound decision.
This is pretty much my entire point regarding the lifers being cheated.
This is my concern as well. I know we got 500 points each month, and we keep what we already had. But the problem I see is those lifetime guys like me are going to get milked now for cash we otherwise would not have spent. That is how I see it but were not the only ones getting the thumb screws, the new kids on the block are going to totaly have to pay to keep up. So there cost are going to be triple or quadruple what a 15 dollar a month sub was and or is.
This will only mean good things for this game, imo. I'll start playing it again when it's f2p. Looking forward to it.
an interesting development. i think i'll be playing this one, at least for a while.
I just resubbed to this 2 weeks ago. LOL cant believe they are doing this already. It's good and bad. I hate ingame stores like SoE and other games have. It ruins the game to a certain extent. Buyable mounts and endless rest XP, shit like that makes the leveling process easier than what it should be. On the other hand, the population could desperately use more players, and going F2P is a solid way of getting a ton of them. I just hope the GMs will stay strict on gold farming and keep BS out of the game.
Some people just know beter, but I guess that is not appreciated.
Anyway, it looks like a drastic measure, and I thought they were doing well.
Are you on their payroll? Man, you really dont know how it is do you? The I win button is there, yes it is! XP potions ,etc. galore in DDO and it is already said in the forums they will be in LOTRO too! If they really want to please the lifetime subs, then give them unlimited coin for the shop, if whats in there isnt really needed! But hey, they dont do that, so you know they arent telling the truth!
You know, new players can become VIPs aswell. If you end up paying more than 15/month then just subscribe.
The F2P is most of all for casual players who just want to spend a little here and there. Hardcore player or thoose who play alot will probably end up VIP after awhile. Thats the good thing about this model, it give us the players options and flexibility.
Most of the potions in the DDO store can be found in-game, and it's been said over and over again about how pointless it is. The one exemption is the XP potions that give between 10-20% boosts.
Now, seeing how if you own a sub, you get points allocated every month - so just having a sub means gratis potions on top of the unlocked content that everyone else is paying for individually. I say it works fine, because it sucks balls to repeat missions for xp, and anyone with a sub is welcome to a share of these potions where people like me would have to buy them out-of-pocket (which I don't do).
Oh those poor idiots with the sub, amirite?
I'm glad LOTR is going f2p. I'll certainly be giving it a try now. As an older man with kids ..I won't be one of those obnoxious people f2p tends to draw. I understand how many feel though about the f2p crowd though.
It makes me think about the difference between people who own their houses vs. people who rent their houses. I own my house, but all around me are investment properties that are rented out. Without fail....those property's that are rented out are not maintained well. This is because it's all about the money to the owner and the renter has no ownership and thus no true commitment to the community.
F2p has much of the same elements to it. It brings extra revenue to the owner, but tends draws people who have no commitment to the community and thus act recklessly. Over time...the owners too tend to invest less and less into their investment too, doing just the bare minimal to keep the renters happy.
welcome to the future of MMOs and you know what it's not bad.
MMOs are doing willingly what cable companies were forced BY LAW to do
offer a la carte
basically all those monethly plans that cable companies offer can easily screw you over, aka how many of those 900 channels do you actually watch, so ther ewas a law passed that said that cable companies had to if asked offer single channel plans
so in my example I only watch science travel comedy discovery and nat geo.
I could pay a monthly fee for those channels individually in fact with just those 5 it would save a butt load of money.
now if I were to get all 900 channels individually it would cost a fortune. Now the law is funny they have to offer only if asked and noone thinks to ask.
So MMOs are just going the cable company route without being told.
But yea I cant believe they are going with evil cash shops you wouldn't see WOW doing anything like that, now if you'll excuse me I need to go get a wyvern plushie, a battle.net authenticator keychain, a constelation mount, then buy enough packs of their TCG game to get myself a spectral tiger mount.
People assume that if game is F2P then players will swarm it. Here you are wrong. F2P crowd will ditch this game soon after realising that they can't fully enjoy it if they don't spend real money on it.
There are tons of F2P games with no limitations and everything there is possible to achieve without spending a single cent (all you have to do is invest more time than those who are spending real cash).
Sorry but from what I have seen here: http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html I can tell that no sain player will stay with this game for more than few weeks. Free players and even a Premium ones have way too many restrictions. Why would anyone want to invest their TIME into a game which offers unfair terms to different kind of players.
They are basing this decision off of the fact that with DDO people did swarm it. DDO was a success.
Heck tehy are using the same buisness model as free realms and they just had a celebration recnetly because they reach 2 million subscribers.
the hybrid model is working. so that is the direction they are going in
Just wonderd if anyone know's what will happen to people with serial codes unused?
I dont mind the free to pay scenario but only if they make premium or vip ONLY servers for those of us who have been loyal i for one dont care if its free its the assclowns f2p games tend too draw in and if you thing gold spam is bad in p2p games wait till it hits f2p. I want premium and vip only servers just too keep the communitys we have created intact especially landroval server the rp server great community loved it now its gonna go down hill.Not saying all f2p players are assclowns but there is a ton.
Proving that race is not required for racism.
I just love the "we don like yer type round 'ere" mentality
Your analogy is dead on over time were going to be getting less of a game, I fail to see how this is good, but then lotro had almost stoped doing anyting other than the festables. I mean the dev team has not done anything and now we know why they are working on gettting ftp in place. Good for the new kids bad for the folks who are at max leve with all theire toons.
Oh well so much for lotro, it will be great for the new kids on the block those of us who been around since the meo days well only time will tell if this is a good or bad thing.
Righ now it totaly blows that there will be no new content until around december.
Looks who's making assumptions. I say pay to win because that's exactly what it means and I hate it. period. Pay to Win does not just apply to PvP, it applies to PvE where things like super pots, res pots, xp pots, sometimes weapons or attack buffs make peopel that pay considerable sums of money better than everyone else. This is common in all free to play games including DDO, and it's nothing I care to play. You are allowed to have your own opinion, but dont invalidate mine because of your ignorance.
How did you guess? Lol, I had a dwarf following me around on my elf going "You're hott! Wanna make out?!"
Wow, it seems there is quite a bit if illiteracy in this thread.
1) The people who are ALREADY paying to play lose nothing. There will CONTINUE to be a monthly sub option, and you will get everything you have now AND MORE.
2) The people who are current LT subs likewise lose nothing. You will automatically have access to the premium content(aka the full game, just like you do now) for free, without having to pay per month like non-LT players.
On top of all that, you will have more people trying the game than ever before, and at least some of them will turn into paid members. The end result is there will be more players, more revenue, and more content being developed from that revenue. The "free" version is basically just a glorified demo.
You want to know something? You don't have to play to win ANYTHING. I played a f2p game for YEARS and I was one of the top 3 of my server, I didn't pay for anything. I worked hard and did what I could to make myself the best. You just need to stop looking at f2p games as something horrible, why don't you try working hard on a f2p game like you do a p2p game, it will all be good. Don't give f2p games a bad rap because you have trouble.
You do realize that you people who pay the monthly sub wont need to "pay to win"
your given points each month to spend on these hypotheitcal res pots and xp pots.
People have been trying to explain that since the beginning, you can't explain that to those who do not listen.
Exactly. Why should we believe them now when they outright lied to us on numerous occasions promising us the game would NEVER be free to play, selling us lifetime subs, then dumping this heaping pile of... on us... You REALLY expect us to believe the words of people already proven to be liars?
After DDO went F2P I made an account there (so I'm one of 2mln I guess). Took me a day to realize how unfair it was to those who don't wan't to pay. So i quit.
I have no doubt that lots of accounts are being created daily but how many people do actually stay with this game and for how long? Player retention rates - this is what matters.
Do you happen to have a link to those statements? I'd like to see exactly what was said, because in my experience game developers never say "never". They usually say something like "no plans AT THIS TIME", etc.
Not an infinite supply.
Well yeah, figure that some of it is tradeable and they don't want you handing stuff out to the whole server. Plus, wouldn't you just get an infinite supply of xp potions and maxout n' get bored, or maybe sell the stuff for in-game cash (rinse-repeat). I don't see how you could even ask for such a thing without considering this.
Kinda just speaks to me of an entitlement problem you have, and since I'm well versed in your post history, I have to vouch for that.
fucking awesome!!!!! thank you god!!!
Wow...summary of the above posts is:
* The people who were already willing to spend $15 a month are angry because that does not make them feel special anymore...and all the stuff they 'earned' through long hours of play just got devalued
* The people who were unwilling to spend $15 a month are happy...and those who have more $$$s than time are also happy
The MMO social order just got leveled and the' have nots' are dancing and the elites are upset.
Good for Turbine because from a business standpoint - the have nots outnumber the elites by multiple orders of magnitude. i am already paying to subs elsewhere, but AM WILLING to spend $5 to $10 a month to play a little LotRO...and I know many others who feel the same. The game will thrive and grow as many more players will join.
For the elites leaving...can I have your stuff?
I do not know of any DDO store item that is tradable. They are either character or account bound. With enough cash you could buy as many as you want, but you can not sell them for in game cash. WHo in their right mind would spend real money in game and hand it out to the whole server?
DDO store sells stuff you can not get in game, in DDO this really is a non issue since it has no real PvP to speak of and PVE is cooperative only ATM.
Of course its unfair - if you want to play past level 10...it is a pay-to-play model. Duh? It' a business. F2P is beginning to mid free-to-play not free-for-all.
And players are staying. If you would have played, you would have seen there are many more players at ALL levels. Their sub rates are UP signifigantly because of the F2P model.
They are expanding their market and it is successful. The whole doom and gloom is wrong - the majority fo teh asian market (including WOW) is already on a F2P model...buying hourly increments of playtime is a version a F2P model - it is NOT the classic western monthly usb model.
There will always be people who will pay hundreds of dollars a month in ftp games that buy their way to the top. I will not be a part of that. Get it through your thick skulls. It's an excruciatingly simple concept. You obviously dont get it so I dont know why you keep responding to me. IN THIS SYSTEM YOU CAN PAY FOR ADVANTAGE. I. DO. NOT. LIKE. THAT. PERIOD. End of discussion. Nothing you can say will change my mind on this concept so you might as well just stop trying.
I am not trying to convince you, you keep playing your p2p games with the 25 dollars to switch servers, change genders, change sides and those 10 dollar pets that do nothing. That is always so much better anyways since you seem to be able to afford it. I don't care if you don't like it, it is no loss to us you can't play a game without having to pay to be the best.
Way to make a 10 dollar a month subscription into a classist argument. Silly troll. If you cant afford 10 dollars for a month's entertainment, you have more to worry about that whether you can play a game for free or not.
Ahhh the great elitist minds at work "You can't afford 10 dollars for entertainment" please, I rather spend that 10 dollars on FOOD for a day than a game I might not even play as much. Stop trolling, it is getting really sad. You are no better than anyone else here, you just throw your money away.
Well, this was my secondary game that i went to play for 4-5 months or so at a time after playign WoW (was the only game i found that had any worthiness about it), guess that will be scrapped as F2P games cost alot more than a monthly subscribed game as you will be eventually forced to use the item shop to progress which always ends up costing alot more.
What about the current characters, will they be removed, servers wiped and you start over? Doubt i will be back anyways as like quiet a few people have said, they dont play F2P marked games with a hidden cost and the bringing in of a certain player type.
Awww well. Didnt think Lotro was doign that badly either with its subs, but see'ing this move, it really must have declined quiet significantly.
Of course it was going poorly. With 2/3 of your playerbase being already lifetimers, your 150k playerbase suddently turns into 50k actual paying customers.
I, for one, welcome this move. In fact, I wish more MMOs would adopt the model.
I am sick and tired of the "$15 per month and I'm entitled to the world" crowd.
Nice to see another voice of reason here.
Yeah, you might want to prove that statement.
Very well put.
Think about the development of the game, more profit = more content! Larger playerbase = much more content (since the voice of the masses 'we are bored' is clearly heard).
Oh, to quote someeone in this thread ''Nothing you can say will change my mind on this concept so you might as well just stop trying'' - people like that shouldn't spend the time on the forums etc. what's the point of discussion if only one side is listening and the other is just so thick and stubborn? If they don't want to even listen ... well they say 'ignorance is bliss' ... and I say Ignorance is just an excuse (for whatever reason you have).
There is nothing "free" about the f2p model. People get a taste fo the game but in the end will being paying more to access the whole. It is, in my opinion, very dishonest for companies to push this so-called f2p model.
With that being said, I am a Life time subscriber. I don't intend to just walk away from the game....at least not yet. I will wait around and see what shakes out. If Turbine/WB start charging me to do quests or offering things that I normally was able to earn in game, then I will walk away. If the community that has been pretty good in LOTRO starts to head south I may also just stop playing. One thing I will no longer do is recruit people to LOTRO.
I am happy to see this because I have wanted to play LotRO for a long time. I have never played this game, but one of my buddies says it is a quality game and very fun. I currently play EQ1 and Vanguard, but I am excited to play LotRO and try out all the classes. Turbines free to play gamble is going to pay off big time in my opinion. I can`t wait.
This game was not on my radar at all but after going free to play, I will definitely check this out now!
BS! I saw a link on the right hand side of this interview that read, "Asheron's Call 2: Free to play interview." I was excited, until I read this shit.
Lord of the Rings... Pssh. Shouldn't even bought that IP after failing with DnD. I mean really, if you can't make a decent MMO with an IP like DnD, you should stop shitting out any gaming content!
The funny things is all they are doing is making it free to play. Until you fix the problems that chased of 50% of your player base in MOM, how do you expect it to get any better.
All this does is to suck in new players while taking a dump on what is left of your veteran players.
So it is clear that turbine is interested in one thing only, a cash revenue stream from folks who have never tried it before.
Turbine can't do this no matter how much they'd like to because, unlike most F2P games, DDO and LotRO both license the intellectual properties on which they're based. Mix up the Turbine Points between the two, and you've got an accounting nightmare when it comes time to pay royalties to the rightsholders for Lord of the Rings and D&D.
Okay. Let's put it this way: are you paying for your subscription right now? Then you are paying for all of that already. You should not expect that, just because they are going to offer a very limited portion of the game for free, that you should now get it all for free just because you paid at some point in the past. If you paid for lifetime, then you will still get all the same stuff you already get for nothing more per month, plus they will be giving you a few extras.
And something you said really got my attention: "Gold?? I have 20g right now. Are they going to TAKE 18g away from me when this goes pay to play unless I pay real money to keep it?"
So you're telling us that you are not paying real money for it already? What are you using to pay with? Monopoly money? And if you are a lifetimer, then you already paid with real money. No difference.
LOL, exactly. Anyone currently playing LOTRO is ALREADY paying to play. So unless it is going to cost them MORE under the new system than they are ALREADY paying, then it makes no difference to their gameplay.
For a company that claims such success with DDO, they certainly look setup to try and get even more milk from LOTRO. This doesn't even take into account limitations on wardrobes, legendary weapons, monster play, destiny points, and skirmishes. Hell they even cut customer servicen down by half a month. I was originally thinking this might bring me back to LOTRO, but it's just looking like a weird attempt to keep their subs (not really adding to it which is why i left to begin with), and throw in these sort of second class citizens with non-citizens on the side to see how much they can get.
And yes, i realize these are two different games and not exactly setup in a way they could be run exactly the same, but I do take issue with a company that is setup in a way that penalizes customers who could, potentially, wind up paying more than VIPs over time.
LOTRO
DDO
LOTRO
DDO
LOTRO
DDO
LOTRO
DDO
Sad to see Turbine go this route with LOTRO. It is just another nail in the coffin of, in my opinion, the greatest MMORPG developer. Or well they used to be. Once Warner digs their greedy talons in deep enough the Turbine so many of us grew to love will be gone.
One of the devs on the LotRO forums stated, "If you've ever bought anything (box or subscription), the lowest you will be (without paying) is Premium."
Lifetime subs are going to get around 4000-5000 store points when the hybrid model launches. Plus an extra 500 a month.
Premium and Free levels with their gold. It will be held in escrow. So if you spend 1.5g of your 2g and you had 10g to start, you now have 8.5g and 2g available to spend.
Oh yes. The sky is falling, the world is ending, and the antichrist walks among us.
LOTRO story is full of fantasy, which is based on P2P and with the fall of the traditions now will be F2P with a grain of green magic.
Today LOTRO isnt only a tale of enthralling adventures and mythical beings, but it also touches upon some questions of philosophy and morality. Greed deeds against Heroic deeds, the separation for the sake of a money cause, true green love, the triumph of Evil over Good.
LOTRO community which are the strongholds of Good, in contrast greedy Mordor, with their generals, is an abode of Evil.
Hard life in LOTRO during this War of the F2P reflects hard life in reality. We has to believe that countless fair armies do not always decide the outcome of the battle, and that only one greedy can conquer alone if we let him.
The struggle with different personifications of Evil is eternal. The War of the F2P is a small part of this struggle.
But Evil has always been and will remain in LOTRO as well as in real life.
LOTRO community teaches us to be humane, to follow the principles of valour and moral.
It is both sympathy and humanity that prevent Frodo from killing Gollum, who played a crucial role in the destroying of the Ring, he never gave in to greed. The temptation was too great but even he knew that the Ring of shining gold was the personification of evil, the worst that humanity is capable of doing when blinded by evil.
Good isnt greedy. It strives to get justice and will never shoot an arrow into the back of an ally.
We cannot say that everything ends extremely well. F2P wounds won’t leave us in peace like Frodo.
In the past The Chain of Evil has split, however, there remains a possibility that a new Sauron will come, with the new Ring F2P.
For us who believe in our community and way of being in our world, LOTRO is unique to us, is not like another game, and several times has proved that. The righteous player who believe in our community and all the good it represents, will be in the front ranks to defend our way of life and not let the new Ring forged by Sauron makes us no longer believe in our fellowship and we all, who still believe, not vanish from the face of LOTRO midle-earth. May our ways be green and golden
I just don't get it... why do some ppl hate this f2p model?
It's nothing more than an extended trial for players who wish to see the game and stay there a bit longer than 2 weeks.
And it doesnt't change anything for lifetimers or monthly payment subscribers, we still have the same game, the only thing that will change that there won't be any trial or welcome back weekends...
It is still a p2p game with f2p option...
There is no need to be condescending; yours is not the only valid viewpoint here.
Yeah, putting a price tag on the story and spirit of LOTR is surely doing good ol'Tolkien proud....
If Tolkien is alive today, I bet he'll be more than happy to make LOTRO completely free, so poor children from all over the world can enjoy his work. So the move to f2p is driving out all those evils disguising as "fans", and hand the game right back to whom he wrote the story for....the real people.
Seriously, f2p hating activists should just leave the genre. Whether the game and payment model is good or bad, I'll be the sole judge of that. None of the negative myths and "pay-to-win" propaganda you guys are spreading is going to work on me.
Only those who play lotro since 2007, called "founders", know that the LOTRO community will lose out with F2P, can be lengthy debate.
1 - The division of players, VIPs, PREMIUM, F2P. There will be some discrimination in choosing players for instances, there will be problems in certain communities and kinships and RP, the union of the community will not be the same.
2 - Turbine and his advisers did not ask anything to the community, knew that the overwhelming majority would be against (speaking of those who already play LOTRO), this concept F2P fell from the sky like a bomb.
3 - We will all lose: lose our gold and stuff if we take a breack(ex: play and pay with real money all goes well, but we go on vacation and did not play for awhile, we cancel the VIP, we lose mostly of our Gold, Items, Crafts etc, they are in the bags and chests, we can only pay when we not play or we will punished.
4 - The risk of being invaded by spamers (rare situation in LOTRO P2P) and players without any sense of community and goodwill, they are the minority, we risk being the majority.
5 - Steps, quests, deeds, virtues, armor, weapons, horses, goats, skirmish content, even worlds, are now free for subscribers, all achieved through our gameplay, with F2P everything will be business and have to be purchased in some situations.
6 - F2P is a lie, we will pay for stuff inside game or we are screwed.
7 - I cant find anything good with the implementation of F2P.
and so one...
Here is F2P of which you speak, children being victims of loan sharks
Massive influx of people enjoying LOTR is always a good thing to both the story and estate. Tolkien didn't write his works so a selective few "founders' can maintain their priviledges. If I were Tolkien, I'd make it free in a heart beat so more people can enjoy the lore.
Are you interested in your in-game "accomplishment", or are you interested in having more people taking part of LOTR world? Yeah, people can be vulgar and bad-mannered, but they are whom Tolkien wrote the story for. Never forget that !!!
I wrote about something that has meaning to me, about a new challenge that is coming and I believe that the changes are not for the right reasons (Evil).
Our community is very important to me (Good).
I fear for the health of our community and the harm it may cause.
I fear that who are causing this evil, never read nor understand what is written on the work of the Lord of the Rings, because if it was understood we were not here to talk about divisions of players and F2P (Ring).
What led to implement F2P in LOTRO was the greed has nothing to do with Tolkien's work.
I can't see how this is not going to effect any new content that lotro get's since they now have to take into consideration 3 tiers of players not to mention how does it effect kinships and groruping? I don't see how the way they want to inplement the so called ftp model will work in an open game world. DDO is entirely different animal in how it is presented to the player. I have a friend who has played ddo for quite a while and now will only play the game with his small guild he says since they went ftp the quality of the new players has steadily decreased to the point that he will no longer pug at all. I fully expect the same to happen in lotro which is a shame as the game has always had a pretty good community at least in my experience. Well I probably will no longer play lotro since I see the direction that turbine wants to take it in.
As a long time subscriber to LotRO, I can state, without hesitation, that when we first played the game, we also were playing like "newbs." And, based on the limited quest access the f2p people in LotRO are going to have, "pugging with noobs" is not going to be a problem.
Wow....someone needs to get a life.
It's just a game.
If you dont care about it, maybe you should stop posting and leave the conversation to people who do. Your post is spam at best, trolling at worst.
Like it or not, free to play models are the way the MMO gaming industry is heading.
Sounds like a good reason to get a new hobby. Which is pretty much what Im doing. (no, you cant have my stuff)
Breeland, Erud, and the Shire are all the F2P people will be able to access. I don't really care how bad that community is... The rest of the game's community will be great like it is now.
All you LOTRO fans who really do love the game, you should really look at this as a way to keep the game alive until Frodo and Sam toss the Ring into Mt. Doom. I'm all for it, and as a lifetime subscriber, it appears I won't ever have to play for any new expansions again.
Patience has said in a couple of RMT threads (last summer and fall) that the game would never go Free2Play. I think it's really silly to hold a company to those kinds of promises or expectations.
This will end up being really good for the game that Turbine has developed. It may not be so good for the Middle Earth I wanted, but it's still a fun game and I'll probably revisit it from time to time.
Yeah. I'm close to that myself.
Bad games, shameless greed, lies, and awful people in general. Too much downside.
When you warn people about shenanigans, and some of them attack you for it, you realize that MMO players in general are not worth hanging out with.
There are some very good people, but it is a minority and you still have to find a good game to play. Which is becoming more trouble than it's worth.
No. What is 'silly' is to let companies off the hook for their lies.
So you are in reality our saviour? If only people would listen, eh Kassandra?
Sometimes, it is not shenanigans, it is just a different taste. Even considered that?
Actually Steefel (producer) said a couple of years ago that LotrO will most probably change buisness model sometime in the future. All Patience have said is that they currently had no plans to make LotrO F2P at the time when DDO did. If people think that means that they PROMISE it will NEVER go F2P then thats there problem.
Great news for us players and the MMO industry imo.
Strange; I have found Landroval to be the best server I have played on. Additionally, i have always found the community there to be very friendly and helpful. What times do you generally play?
I play MMOs since "Ultima Online", I try test mostly games MMOs and I particularly never liked F2P games and their microtransations. I moved to LOTRO in 2007, I thought this is it I need for my favorite game. Now I do not know, as I said earlier it fell like a bomb on our heads. They have not heard us before deciding, I'll think carefull what to do.
I have rarely seen so much smokescreening as in this interview. It is total BS. Look at the comparison table and read the details! Existing customers are being screwed over. Gone is the convenience of game cards, where you could just subscribe whenever you wanted for a limited time (when you have enough personal time to actually play, because you know some people actually work and dont just get the money to play and purchase items from mommy and daddy!).
So us people, people like me are screwed. And the whole" you dont buy stuff to win" argument is smoke and mirrors. How are you ever going to get anywhere with only 5 gold and no access to all the quests? It is BS and lies!
I have been with this game (with short interuptions for work and health reasons) since the open beta. I am sooooo pissed right now, I have no words for it. I am going to switch to AoC, even if that means that I have to get a new computer yet again (just got one that would allow me to play LOTRO with all details, grrrrr).
Aaaargh and I just purchased a game cards again a couple of days ago! I wished, I had not . Was a total waste of money, since I am not going to play this crap of a game anymore!
Changing the business model in this way changes the game considerably. While the company might have the legal right to do so (and that is debatable), it is a slap in the face to current players - especially lifers.
It is up to the players to decide if they want to do business with a company that is wiling and even eager to treat them this way. If someone treats you like dirt, and you accept it - you are to blame.
I would like one thing explained - if the game is still taking subscriptions, how is this not now a P2P+cash shop game? Allowing some free players to do minimal content is irrelevant.
They could have allowed free play without adding a cash shop at all. This is a pure greed move.
I think you should read what this is about again since its players like you who are the big winners in this.
do any of you know a place where i can buy a lifetime sub for this game, i thourt it was a preorder thing only, so that is why im asking now.
You can only get lifetime sub for the European servers now (which are operated by Codemasters). Turbine have said that they wont have the lifetime offer anymore.
nice im eupean :) and will play in europa
I endorse this post, makes total sense. Not a fan of f2p and never will be. Buh Bye!
Wow, while I suppose you could say the writing was on the wall far as this goes I must admit I'm a bit surprised.
I have a sinking feeling about it myself and while it worked well for DDO there is a significant design difference between DDO and LotR that will make it much more difficult to pull off in Rings. However, I'll wait to see how it actually plays out to decide one way ot the other fore sure.
Can't say my first reaction was a good one though when I read this.
Turbine, Turbine. Did you guys all forgot how Turbine released boxed paid expansion to Asheron's Call 2 and then announced to terminate all servers 3 months after? This doesn't come up as surprise.
Just suscribe, then carry on as you allways have. In fact, ITS CHEAPER NOW TO SUBSCRIBE.
Ok so you're willing to drop another $800+ to get a new rig to play AoC, but are unwilling to or were unable to drop 199 to get a lifetime sub for LoTRO in all the years it has been around? I think you have your priorities screwed. If you really DID buy a PC just to play LoTRO with high setting and you did play on and off since beta, then getting a lifetime sub would have been the move you made first and foremost. I call BS on your part....try that story somewhere else.
Either that or you're not as supportive of the game as you're trying to lead people to believe.
This missinfromation in this thread is astounding.
If you are a subscriber, nothing has changed. If you are a Lifer, nothing has changed. You can F2P, or susbscribe.
just not happy about all the bad apples we will be getting.
code master dont have the lifetime sub anymore :(
I like some F2P games not many but some , but i find the main problem with them is , when they first start/go Live the GMs are there all the time.. sorting out events and such... but give it a few months.. and thats it they vanish never to be seen again.... the customer service goes right down hill compared to P2P....
Nice, now i don't have to worry about not trying out this game.
It will be interesting to see how it effects the community. Compared to most mmos out there the community in LotR is definitely one of the better and friendlier groups out there in the mmo world.
Can F2P players duel?
Some people actually don't like coughing up all that money at the same time, or as good as all LOTRO players would be lifers.
Buying a computer is a different thing, you don't just use a computer for a single game, you use it for everything from watching movies, surf the net to playing single player games and FPS.
And if you already coughed up $800 bucks it could affect your economy for a while (my new cost me 3 times that much so I am on a somewhat low budget right now even though I would still have bought a life time sub afterwards.
And some people don't actually *gasp* own a credit card and still use gamecards. Those Visas with a sum of money on them isn't something you can get in all countries (you can't get them here, in Sweden to mention one).
Sure he might just be a troll but he can well be telling the truth.
and thank goodness for that
Massive influx of people enjoying LOTR is always a good thing to both the story and estate. Tolkien didn't write his works so a selective few "founders' can maintain their priviledges. If I were Tolkien, I'd make it free in a heart beat so more people can enjoy the lore.
Are you interested in your in-game "accomplishment", or are you interested in having more people taking part of LOTR world? Yeah, people can be vulgar and bad-mannered, but they are whom Tolkien wrote the story for. Never forget that !!!
============================================================
What a bunch of nonsense.
I suppose no one should have to buy his books.
Grow up amd join us in the real world. We need no freeloading lushes in this game.
Turbine, go die, I lost all my respect for you, I don't do Pay to Win games, I quit, you suck, I hope your office burns in a fire, have a nice day...
You are correct sir! i shall absolutly pawn you with my cosmeticaly equiped broom and frying pan!
(the only PvP in this game is monster play, so what is there to "win"?).
Still, the missinfromation in this thread is ASTOUNDING.
It will be interesting to see how this could effect some other current f2p games. DDO was pretty significant but it had nowhere near the amount content and mass appeal that LotR has in comparison.
Turbine devs have already stated that it will not be "free to play, pay to win" model. Most of the items will be cosmetic and convenience items.
Various mount skins, wardrobe skins, +10-20% or more XP potions, run speed potions, maybe even some port scrolls.
Just look at the DDO store, and that is exactly what the LOTRO store will be modeled after they have said. Also stated, a dev said this plain and simple:
"The purchase of items in the LOTRO Store is entirely optional. While items in the Store are designed to immediately enhance your in-game experience, premium loot and rare gear are the rewards of adventure and are only obtainable through gameplay."
This means that raid gear, and any type of gear with stats that will give you a major advantage will only be obtainable through actually doing the content. Hope this helps answer some questions and silences the doom-and-gloomers.
I love that idea! Let them create Free 2 play servers! If the newbies love the game they can pay to be transferred to a VIP/Premium server!
We must keep Ladroval safe!
Pffft, more like keep the rest of the world safe from Landrovalians!
; )
One thing that I learned from this story is that Turbine lie with all the teeth. Patience and Sapience in the forum said that there wouldnt be F2P, rested the LOTRO community, then the F2P appears with absolutely no warning. When greed climb over their heads again we will see the loan sharks again in action. I dont trust in Turbine anymore and what they say.
Single digit IQs and illiteracy usually breed misinformation. Oh, and blind hate for F2P games. Let's not forget about that.
What I find so amusing is that the game is not even going F2P -- it's gaining a F2P OPTION. Big difference.
In a game that lacks pvp the concurrence betwen players is exactly that. Fluff items and experience.
Essentially, they are making a permanent free trial of the game, since the f2p'ers will be limited to quests in the three starter areas; so they aren't going to get much past levels 15-20 for free. And, we subscribers just get to keep our current deals, access everthing, and get free Turbine Points every month, STARTING NOW. Gee, I feel so used. How dare they give me MORE than what I thought I was paying for!!! How dare they make the game more accessible to people who would rather play on a pay as you go plan since they may not play enough to justify a monthly!!!
The sky is not falling.
The misinformation is on your part, because the F2P name, really is just a hoax, of course we all have to pay to play, subscription or microtransactions, we all have to pay to enjoy the gameplay at least.
And some of us are in MMOs a lot of time and not let ourselves be deceived because we have an advanced IQ, some of us are test players of MMOs.
Therefore do not be rude and gets your IQ that you love so much.
Oh damn.. :-p and I am a lifetimer! nooooo :o DOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
haha =D
No they never said that. Saying that they currently dont have plans to make LotrO free to play does not mean that they promise it will never be. But I guess thats the fun thing with the internet, people like to spin everything into something it is not.
The producer even said a couple of years ago that its unlikely that LotrO will remain subscription only forever.
Ok, I'm sorry, but...
What the hell are you rambling on about? Your response doesn't even make any sense.
Well "stop" no wonder "stop" that you dont understand "final stop"
Yep I have a liftime sub, ill get 500 points. Then whats going to happen when we got to unlock new content, how many points is that going to cost. How many points is it going to cost me to keep up with the jones. My entire thinking is yea they give us 500 points a month there has to be a reason , they need you to spend, on what who has any idea. All I see is a further subdivide between the folks who have stuff and the folks who dont, and that is not what we first got and was promised back in soa.
You'll be getting 500 points a month. How much do you think those updates are really going to be? Plus, as you said you're a lifer so what else are you really going to spending those points on since you'll essentially have the same benefits as someone with VIP status anyways? Especially if you have been playing the game all this time on a regular basis.
They're banking on getting new blood into the game and making money off of them and making money off of those that simply have to have everything and have it now regardless the cost. About the only significant change this is going to make that will effect you directly outside of the in game economy and community is there will be "expansions" coming out on a more frequent basis than before.
One thing I will say that I find to be rather lame about all this is that the points are not transferrable between the two games. Really should be...
/dances
Well I"m shocked because I always thought Lotro was a healthy MMO. There have never been server mergers and when I"m on there are always plenty of people playing. I felt when they did it with DDO that the subscriber base was probably low enough that F2P made good sense. However, doing it with Lotro makes me wonder how bad off the subscription base is for the game.
I have a big problem with games that say they are free, and then say they are free for up to 300 hours and then they cost money.
On the Pay to Win issue, if I read the article correctly they are saying you can't buy gear except starter gear. That's why they claim it's not pay to win.
But then they say that you will come across a quest (that may have gear as a reward) and you have to pay to be able to do that quest, and thereby be able to get that reward.
I guess there are two ways of looking at that. One way is to say it's the same as the subscription model. If you want the content in the expansion pack in a subscription model game you have to buy the expansion pack, to gain access to its content, to gain access to its rewards.
But another way of looking at it is that they are selling gear under the guise of giving you access to that gear by having you pay money to do some quest.
Balancing the two, I still call it pay to win because it's paying for gear where that payment is being laundered through the facade of "content access." We don't sell you the sword. We sell you a quest where you talk to a guy who gives you a key to open a door and the sword is there in a chest. I can't get the sword unless I pay. Pay to Win.
There should have been server merges but they have always avoided that discussion like the plague. While there are some healthy servers such as Brandywine, Landroval, and Elendilmir there are others that are rather desolate in comparison and were a pain in the ass for new players to try and group on them.
They always refused to look into this issue though and tried handling grouping woes players had by doing other things such as creating smaller group oriented material or turning prior group content into soloable material. I didn't agree with their thinking then and now that they're going this route seems like it was even more of a waste that they went that route now.
Still, in a roundabout way it did lead to them fleshing out the earlier level zones more with additional content so I suppose there is a silver lining to it.
Anyways, I think this isn't due to the LotR subscription level being bad but more due to what they think the income potential could be considering what happened with DDO and what they believe will transpire with LotR when they go the same route.
I also heard the story of the empty servers in the US. I don't know what the situation was there. But on the EU realms we didn't really had that problem, we had only 1 low populated server, and everything else was always full of people. Atleast on my server, evernight. I never noticed the server was empty or something like that. Like last night, it was really bussy in the crafting hall in Bree :-), But ofcourse I can imagine the population dropped this year. Because there was almost no content comming in. Lotro isn't in the bad state DDO was. But turbine found out their 'f2p' system worked to get more people in the game. If it works for DDO why wouldn't it work for LOTRO ? :-)
I really don't mind LOTRO goes this way. I will be a VIP player and have fun :-)
LoTRO IS successful the way it is. My server Landroval is just as packed now as it was at launch!
BUT they increased DDO's profits 500% when it went to the hybrid F2P/P2P model.
500%!
500%!
A 500% increase in profits is quite the incentive for Turbine to try it on their successful game too. Why be happy with a few mill a year when you can go hybrid and quintuple your cash coming in? I'm guessing their profit increase in LoTRO will be even bigger than in DDO.
I'm gonna think positively about this whole thing. More Cash to Turbine = More Devs= More Frequent and Bigger Updates
If ^ comes true, then I'm estatic that they made this decision.
So. ****ing. True.
Turbine really played their cards idiotically with LoTRO. First of all, there hasn't been made a single improvement to its broken LFG tool since its launch 3 years ago. With dying populations, crappy LFG people just stopped picking up group quests. Turbine thinks people don't like to group anymore, and instead of merging servers + breathing a new life into its LFG tool (like Patch 1.9 did for Aion) they instead decided to DELETE group content (Lone Lands revamp). The Solo'ists loved it, people who wanted a balance did not and left.
And now the game is going F2P. Serves Turbine right imo.
Why would you think Lotro was unhealthy mmo to go free-to-play though?
Completely agree w/Darkholme, and I'm a lifetime member. As long as I'm compensated (and it looks like I will be), I'm fine with it. I actually believe it helps the game, not hinder it.
Counting Gpotato? ^^ Lets see how this works out in practice before we break out the torches and pitch forks. There will be plenty of time for that, if it turns out to be warranted.
Do you realize what percentage of the player base are serious raiders? I suspect that they looked at the statistics, applied it to the existing demographics, and came to the conclusion that they stand to gain more than they lose. Corporations do that all the time. Why should game corps be any different in that regard?
There saying its not a PAY TO WIN game. Read before you comment.
I'll give the game another try since I can play forever not just for 14 days.
They always say it's not a pay to win game.
I suspect its about maximizing their potential profits. Now that they are owned by WB, the corporate bean counters no doubt looked at how well DDO is doing, and ran the numbers on LOTRO. It would appear that they think they can make more this way, than the traditional sub approach. Only time will tell if they are correct.
Indeed. What PR talking head in their right mind would ever admit that their game is pay to win? LotRo may or may not be, time will tell, but gosh, try not to believe everything you hear just because a dev said it. In fact, you'd be better off disbelieving it until conclusively proven otherwise.
You pay to unlock zones.
Exactly right.
These are multi-million dollar projects. MMO devs shouldn't be trusted any farther than the typical used-car salesman. Sorry - pre-owned.
I noticed that you play STO. Does STO give it's Lifetime subscribers everything in it's store for free? Does STO even give lifetime subscribers free "bucks" every month to spend in the store? Expecting this out of one game, while not expecting it out of the game you currently play seems to have a bit of hypocrisy about it.
My point is not to be condescending, but to say that the people preaching doom have not fully looked into what is going to happen.
And I should say NONE of us knows how it will play out until launch (or beta).
From what I understand, from reading the FAQ and various forum posts, is that the updates will still be free to the lifetimers and to those that are paying the monthly sub (VIPs). It's only the expansions that you will still need to buy (just as before). If you have enough points saved up (500/month for VIPs) then you can just pay for the expansion that way. If you are a subber now and continue to sub, you loose nothing that you have now. If for some reason you need a few months off the game, and unsub, then return a few months later (resub) you will have lost nothing that you had (except your house maybe in escrow). Your gold, bags and bank will all still be there, just as before.
And to those commenting on the xp pots, I already get bonus xp. It's called rested xp (which you can also buy with destiny points). So, I don't see a need to buy the potions. If I get more XP than that I will outlevel my current zone without finishing most of the quests (as it is my quests are green). I'm not in a race to get to max level. I'm enjoying the story. If they fail to deliver on that portion (the story) in the future then I'll have a problem, but as it stands now, I loose nothing.
Nothing is really changing for those of us who are subbed or have lifetimes, except a chance to maybe buy some extra shared storage and such with our "allowance" every month.
It was clear since well before release that STO would have a cash shop. It wasn't sprung on people after they paid for their lifetime sub.
That doesn't negate the fact that lifetimers don't get everything free. At least Turbine is giving a monthly stipend to their lifetimers to spend in the store, which, I may add, they didn't have to do. They could have been just as stingy as Cryptic. Maybe other games that offer lifetime subs + microtransactions should follow suit.
I know it's offtopic but why in the hell would anyone need xp potions for this game anyways? Since they eased the leveling curve in this game it's ridiculous how fast you level. You level so goddamn fast anymore you can outlevel entire freaking zones at this point.
Games such as this and WoW really went overkill with how quickly they allow you to level anymore..
What the article says is:
"....quest givers featuring quests peripheral to the main storyline will require a purchasable unlock as players progress through the game’s later areas, starting around level 20-25, beginning with the Lone-lands. The locked quest givers will be denoted with a lock icon above their heads, and players can unlock them by simply talking to them and being given the option to purchase the content right then and there."
I just had to "lol", when I read your reply, because I was thinking the same thing. I gain xp way too quickly already.
If you read more of the article it does say that the purchase will unlock quest givers for that entire zone. In fact, the one Turbine rep comments on it directly.
EDIT: Oh come on, I just reread over that and it even makes this distinction in the very next sentence after what you quoted. You're telling me you didn't see that?
@junzo: Hehe
That's right. They didn't have to do it. Why do you think they did it?
They aren't selling xp potions yet.
Nothing is easier to change in an MMO than xp rates.
Well, lookee there, you made a funny. I'll mail you a gold star you can stick on the front of your shiny new protective helmet.
Free players wont get rested xp and cant use destiny points to buy it.
I bet you there will be xp potions in the cash shop, and it is where I will spend my 500 tp/month :)
To cut down on potential PR problems? Now people can point to the difference... Basic PR tactics. Those that think that they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, likely believe in the tooth fairy as well... ^^
No mmo goes f2p unless their current model is failing, and LOTRO's was. I know there's lots of people that love it to death, but their subs were in the dumps. Let's start with a little realism and not so much fantasy when we analyze mmo news.
Why does the article say that you won't pay to win, yet you do? I don't get it. In both games Turbine has you can take a crap without paying them some money. You can't level, you can't quest, it's more a demo than an actual game.
You sir are wrong, please stop being wrong. There is nothing to "WIN", thats just retarded to even say.
"MT: That's right, Dungeons & Dragons Online right now is about eight percent of the market, LOTRO is number eight in the marketplace with five percent. Combined, thirteen percent of MMO gamers are playing Turbine games. That positions Warner Bros. right away in MMOs, and that's clearly a direction we're headed in the future."
After reading over the chart linked in a previous post, there are a couple things I don't completely agree with.
I think that "premium" players should be able to get more than they currently are able to. For example, they should be able to do monster play, get rested experience, and should definitely be able to spend destiny points. That's just my personal opinion, though.
Although I haven't played Lotro in a while, this is not likely to bring me back. I do, however, hope this is success.
I would rather they had kept the subscription model and just added a cash shop. I wish they invested in their subsystems (housing, hobbies, crafting, deeds) and made MIddle Earth an interesting place to hang out. However, it doesn't surprise me that it is changing and even moving in a direction that isn't my style. Every paid update has significantly changed the game affecting every kind of player and account holder. Not only that, every time I logged into the game for the last three years there, in big yellow letters is a message telling me that the game play and content can change.
The game will have multiple payment options, among them VIP (subscription and lifers) who can buy stuff in the cash shop. You identified that fairly clearly but I don't see your point. I think it's great that they're adding a cash shop. They can offer some of the perks they gave out in the past (account wide mounts, signature capes, appearance gear, newbie starter kits, and so on).
Sure it's a revenue based motivation, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It will come down to how things are implemented and their future developments continues. If I want full access to my stuff I can always pay my sub again. No one is really losing out on the sub or lifer payments.
There are better criticisms to be pointed at Turbine marketing such as why their Turbine Points don't work across their games. If I buy Station Cash with SoE I can use it in any game that uses the Station Cash. That they haven't figured that dilemma out is telling of their inexperience.
It might have to do with how many "free" points suscribers and vip's get, how much they are going to charge for LOTRO points and how much the points in lotro buy in comparison to DDO.
Sony is marketing their Station system but Turbine seems to be marketing each game as its own entity. Maybe it's an accounting thing. but it's clear that they want them separated.
One example is that DDO needs to be funded based on their players. If someone is a lifer in lotro and they get free points per month and then solely use them in DDO then that is not adding to ddo's bottom line.
...Yes you do. If you pay a subscription fee for an MMO you do. I fail to see the problem here. You would rather be forced to pay a subscription than to have the option of not paying it if you don't feel like it? I mean, you already pay for it, yes? And if you pay for it now you get everything you've been getting and more. Your argument doesn't make any sense.
QFT, don't you want some more noobs to bash up or something?
This and a bit more.
LotRO going F2P isn't the end of the world, it may not even be a bad thing for the game long term and it most likely will be a profitable move for Turbine.
However, the way they chose to implement the change; the outright lies and deception involved in stonewalling anyone who asked what was going for 6 months while content stagnated and then engaging in a slash and burn campaign to eliminate all the old posts where they said they would NOT got F2P with LotRO is pathetic.
The second part of the announcement which basically says that there will be no significant content update for another 3-6 months plus basically nothing at all in 2011 is pathetic.
I really don't get the "battered wife syndrome" that seems to affect far too many MMO fans. Turbine just took a huge steaming dump on all their most loyal customers. That it may have made sound business sense is no reason for any of those customers to like it better or ever trust Turbine again.
They have seen the last of any payment for any game or service from me.; not because they were stupid or wrong or evil or whatever but because I do not do business with companies that treat their customers like this.
Before all you quitters start jumping to conclusions, read the complete information on the actual site, rather than just reading this article. This is only an interview from two employee's of Turbine, and doesn't have all the infromation. The FAQ, at www.lotro.com answers a pretty decent amount of questions, especially about the 3 player tiers; Free, Premium, and VIP, and what qualifies that. For all those Subscribers out there complaining, and saying " Oh well, looks like I am going to quit now, since LOTRO is going " Free to Play".". Look at it like this, if you already have everything up to Seige of Mirkwood, then you won't have to pay for it again, its already unlocked, you will already be a VIP member. You just have to pay the same monthly fee you always have done, not so sure about lifetimers, but all this stuff is subject to change, its only June and November is months away, just chill out and watch what happens. All the stuff can be earned through gameplay, so it takes you longer to do more things, and its a little bit harder to get there. Hell it maybe the same stuff your already doing in game right now. So just stop your complaining, it gets nowhere. Anyway Founders and Lifetimers get extra Turbine Points to spend every month, and from what I see those points accumulate. Mainly why Turbine is doing this is for the people not playing this MMORPG, to actually give them the chance to play and try it out. Rather than having a 14-day trial, it gives more of the casual player more time to play. Because unlike some of you, not everyone has time to play mmorpgs for hours on end.
I see: a zillion different options to catch money: "free, premium, vip, founders, lifetimers... and various degrees of item sales, expansions - bought or not - unlocked/locked content etc...
The end conclusion: if Lotro was really that good for "many" players, they wouldn't take all these in game measures, would they ?
They can't motivate enough players to pay their subs..."so let's make a system where they don't feel the money we grab"
Seriously: calling a game "free" and limit the Gold for those "free" players to 5 Gold ???
Lotro apparently was no longer popular enough to simply ask a fixed subscription fee. Period.
That's not the main complaint. The main complaint is that now the community is going to change from a mature one to a f2p one, where most of the f2p games attract the worst gamers ever.
We p2p gamers like to play p2p games, not only for what we like about them in terms of content, lore, etc., but because they are p2p. When you change the type of game we initially bought, a p2p one, to a game we would have never put any time or effort into, a f2p one, you are literally pulling the rug from under our feet.
Don't give me that "Game experience may change during online play" crap, because honestly, this is not referring the method of payment, it is referring to the actual game content, ie., what once was a siege in moria is now a siege in mirkwood.
Give unto p2p what is p2p, and f2p that which is f2p; Do not mix the two.
If I had known this P2P game that I CHOSE to play from release unto now was going to change to F2P, I would have never picked it up.
There is a stark difference between p2p games and f2p games, and we will see that in the future patches to this game. The content itself will change, just like DDO has from when it went p2p to f2p.
I hate f2p games, I despise them, I think they are leeches to the mmo industry. And because of this change that LOTRO has undergone, I now see LOTRO in the same manner.
If money needed to be generated that bad, it would have been better off the game itself be shut down.
Quote me on this, this is what the developers did to swg with NCU. And if this game does not fall, it will have changed to be something completely different than intended.
Tolkien would be ashamed.
yea turbine also said it would not go f2p also
Just to clear this up, LOTRO was originally intended to always be subscription only and it's absolutely true that we had no plans to go Free-to-Play. When the statements in question were made, they were true; but clearly, our plans did change.
right from the donkeys mouth from official forums.So lemme ask when there buisnessmodel changes againand they begin selling all the stuff they say they wont atm how many of you will roll over and accept it> Turbine has NO credibility left anyone who claims they do don't understand credibility very well.
Sorry to double post, but my first one took quite a bit of time to type up. So it sounds like this was only Turbines decision to make LOTRO "Free to Play", but did you forget the fact that Warner Bros. now has control over Turbine. Maybe it was true that LOTRO was not going to be "Free to Play", as said by Patience and Sapience. But now under Warner Bros., it was decided that, with the success of DDO's new "Free to Play" model, LOTRO should also be "Free to Play". Dont go around assuming that Turbine is hiding the fact that it wasn't going "Free to Play", by deleting the threads. Many things change when one business is owned by a much larger one. Don't just say that they are lying. Turbine has every right to delete those threads, because those statements are no longer true. That doesn't mean that those were lies, no one can foresee the future. As such don't go around saying such nonsense about a company if you don't think before you type. I do agree with the fact that yeah they should have given a warning about this change......oh wait they did, its not like it changed and is now "Free to Play". The change doesnt occur till the Fall so thats a few months away.
Well, I've played many f2p and many p2p since becoming an MMO addict. I have to say, one of the worst communities I have ever come across was from a p2p game...WoW.
Well if you are a P2P, I assume and I know assuming is bad, you played WoW. If not, then thats what happens when you assume. But if you have, then you must know the community of that MMORPG. That game has the worst, if not then one of the worst communities of all time. Last time I checked too, that game was P2P, not F2P. No matter which type you go with P2P or F2P your going to have people who are immature, or in your terms "F2P", one may have more than the other, but that all depends on the game. WoW is so easy and attracts much more people, has been out longer, ect. LOTRO attracts the poeple interested in Tolkien lore, mainly LOTR, not to say just that. But that makes up at least 80% of the community, maybe more, maybe less, just spitballing there. But as I see it, I'd rather try it and see how it goes rather than just saying right now, that I am going to quit, just because of that, I quit WoW, because I loved the community of LOTRO, and thats what kept me, I will be heading back to WoW when new expansion comes back, because though the community is very bad there, there are more +'s then -'s, of going back. I play because you find a very nice guild that enjoy playing with, there are quite a few decent people as well outside of guilds, that you socialize with. So there is going to be more immature people within LOTRO, all that could be is just your opinion and some others, but we wont know till the change occurs. We will see how many people from other mmorpgs come to play, or see how many that are new to the scene of mmorpgs. We just cant assume the fact that the community is going to go from one extreme to the other.
This is the truth of the matter. Turbine caught again in another lie. For 6 months we got nothing, no updates. Anytime anybody asked the threads were locked and deleted.
What lies were told. (1) We doing great. (2) Our sub base is great nothing to worry abot the game is growing. (3) Were not going F2P, in fact any thread that even mentioned that was locked.
So if they were doing so great then why the buyout?
If there subs were so great and the game was growing then why this move?
We all know that they know they were doing this for months, thus the silince they were hoping to prolong this is much as possible, and keep getting folks to buy the lifetime. In fact just a few weeks back Patience was on a thread going no f2p, followed with a tin foil hat guy on a post that has been locked and pruned.
I am not worried to much about the f2p part of it any more, the out right lies over the past 6 months, I cant trust anything they say now.
[Quote]I think you should read what this is about again since its players like you who are the big winners in this.[/Quote]
A really, so loosing two character slots per server is a big win?!!!!!
I currently have 7, as a VIP I would only have 5. SO HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY READING THE FAQ!!!
Also, do you really think that nothing will change for subscribers? This is total bull! Look at all the stuff that they offer for sale in the DDO store and tell me that you really want that? I cant stand the thought ot it!
The whole Turbine Store thing will totally ruin immersion for me.
Oh and for the guy who asked my why I did not become a lifetime subscriber: This offer has not always been available! When I wanted it, they did not have it. They just got it again in Europe and I was about to get it, when this announcement came out. I am sooo glad I did not. Oh and it is not about the money, you ijit! It is about the immersion and fairness and balance fo the game and the fact that you will always feel pressed to buy more and spend more money in the Turbine store to stay competitive. Players will run arround with nice stuff that they BOUGHT in the store. That feels like cheating to me, sorry. The thought allone makes me want to puke. Also, do you really think that things will stay that way? Turbine wants to make money and then more money. The lifetime subscribers dont do that, so they have to find ways to get more money out of them. They do that with that store. Whatever they promise, I dont believe a single word of what they are saying!
Money, money, money, must be funny.
I dont really see this as a bad move, it will bring more playerbase, more customers for Turbine, and alot more people to group up with.
Also, I dont get why the LT's are whining and bitching about this in every freaking post I see on this thread. Youve already played for years with that money, do some math and you will see that you have paid already less than those who pay monthly every month, just cus' they cant buy LT anymore. LT's will also get free points, so, why not? Its fine.
I could still buy my own LT as I am from Europe, but we'll see. Havent played LOTRO for ½ a year now..
I'm going to try this game.
I understand what might have happened, however unlike you I do not choose to give them a pass on it. Turbine doesn't get to magically drop everything they previously promised because they were bought out, that's part of the baggage anyone who buys an existing company gets along with the purchase. Think of it in legal terms if it helps: The new parent company is legally bound to honor old warranties, legally liable for any outstanding lawsuits, heck they are liable if Turbine was illegally dumping copy toner behind the dumpster outside the office...so I don't see why I shouldn't hold them to the promises they made to their players. Arguing otherwise is stupid to me as Sapience asserting that "steefel"'(sp?) publicly promising content updates wasn't relevent because he got shuffled to another project.
Yea the entire Stefell thing him and orion and the other devs being moved to another project was sure done on the quite.
We just found out Kate has been the exec for lotro for over a year, while steffel had been making his usuall comments on lotro as late as last month. I found it odd that Kate had been the exec suposdly durring the beta of SOM, and stefell promoting som when he was suposedly on another poject. It is all just a bit strage.
One thing for sure the devs were pulled to another poject and lotro had went stagnent. Were all going to have to see what happens now. I still dont trust what I am seing them saying and doing. But like it or not times are a changing.
I think the hybrid model works well in games that offer mostly pve . There isn't anything to win so the pay to win arguement is redunant and quite frankly a little stupid . The turbine store wont ruin any sort of immersion for me in fact it will be quite useful at times and I think with the boost in the numbers of players this will bring in and in the increased revenue it should mean a lot more new content will be available . I do however think it was completly wrong to offer a lifetime subscription at half price only a few weeks before changing the buisness model . While not actually fraud it certainly feels like it to those that brought it . I think for those with vip access any future expansions should be free now and it would be seen as pure greed to charge for them . The thing is with this model is its really not completly free is more an extended free trial , subscriptions still exist and to get to the end game content you ll either have to pay a one of payment or become a vip . With increased numbers playing it will be easier to group for lower level quests . The only downside initially is you ll proberbly get loads of trolls coming in to have their say but as in DDO this will only last a couple of months before things settle down . LOTRO wont ever appeal to younger players in the way Warcraft does so I think the community will remain mature and maybe somewhat larger . I'm already at work trying to get friends I know that play mmos to at least try it and you know what I think a fair few will .
To each their own. But corporations are no different than individuals in many regards. They will always act in their self interest. Obviously some corporate bean counters ran the numbers, and decided that more money could be made this way, than with their current business model.
How that works out for them in the future remains to be seen.
As for their revision of history, that too should be expected. Its pretty much human nature, yet again. Why do you think politicians and governments hate the Internet as much as they do? It makes it more difficult for them to keep their various lies from coming back to haunt them.
But keep this in mind in regards to Turbine. Perhaps at the time, they really did not have any intention of taking LOTRO F2P. Perhaps it was the idea of the corporate types from WB?
As for content, given all of the work thats going into the switch over, perhaps they have limited staff/talent resources that they can throw at the problems? If it really was an edict from on high within WB, then they are doing what they can, with what they have. Again, only time will tell how this works out.
I've been in WoW since late beta. I have four 80's on Silvermoon(one of the most populated realms to this day), and while it isn't the best community, its FAR from the worst I've seen on some other games(F2P/P2P). Might I remind you that Shadowbane was originally P2P?...
Its not quite time for torches and pitchforks. Lets see how this works out, before we see if thats warranted.
I've been a huge fan of this game and the franchise in general for about three years now.
I know it won't make any difference, but I've just cancelled my account.
Why? - Free to play opens the floodgates to any non-dedicated gamer who chooses to play for 'a little bit'. I don't want 'little bit' players in my games, plain and simple.
M
While there is some truth in that it will be mostly at the lower levels . Kinships will only keep active players so its highly unlikly you'll see many casual players beyond level 40 . While at the lower levels it will be easier to get groupings .I can't count the number of times I've tried to get groups together for instances and group quests at lower levels without success . Its quite simple stay in your kinship and it will make no difference to you at all apart from the fact when you level an alt it will be far more interesting because middle earth will be a lot buisier . I have a life time sub and I'm looking forward to this . My kinship does have a few players that think it willbe a bad thing but they are by no means a majority . If anything like DDO it will be a greater success . One thing I would have liked to see is being able to use you credits in both the DDO and LOTRO stores allowing access to both games but I guess thats unlikly to happen at least in the near future .
Lets hope the likes of Warhammer , Everquest ,Vanguard and Age of Conan are taking note . This is a good thing from mmos a break with the tired old 15 dollar subsrciption model which is failing miserably to attact players to most MMOs out there today .
Its another step in the right direction .
hmm...not bad...maybe i will try this one...
I don't think it's a bad change but I do think it is a 'change'. It changes the dynamic of who populates the gameworld. It changes the perception of how you view the other players in the game.
I understand why they made the change, trying to ride DDO's coattails but there is one huge difference as to why I don't think it'll be as successfull for this as it was for DDO. In DDO, from what I've heard, it is perfectly viable to play that game without spending a dime. With their current model, that doesn't seem to be the case in LoTRO. It's one thing to want to buy items from the shop because you enjoy the game, it's something else when you feel you 'need' to buy those items to enjoy the game.
actually you need to pay in DDO as well. Pretty much all the endgame stuff needs to be purchased before you can actually run the dungeons.
Pretty much
I love it and everyone thought WoW would be the first to do this! makes me want to laugh in everyones faces that said that.
Well thats basically whats happening, people are complaining way to much about how its going to end up and its not even Beta yet. People keep assuming that the community is going to go bad, do people have ESP, I think not. Look at how the store is going to be made up, whats going to be in it, we already know some, like cosmetics, maybe helpful potions or something to that nature, expansions, mostly what you would find in the DDO store. But some people are already jumping the gun, saying its all going to go down hill. Thats an opinion, based on previous trends of other games. As I see it, the community may not change much at all, but thats my opinion. Why well because, I dont see many "WoW-heads" coming over from WoW just to play this, maybe to try it, sure will probably see some trolls, but who knows. If "WoW-heads" truly wanted to play this, rather than WoW, we would have seen the community go down hill, but then they wouldn't be considered "WoW-heads" then. The subscription is the same as WoW. forThis game appeals more to the Tolkien-fanatics than any other, nothing like WoW does for almost everyone else. Sure this game can also appeal to others, but most of you think of this as negative to what happened to other games. Basically your asking to play the whole game for FREE, and that is not the case, sure you have everything unlocked, if your a lifer/sub, but your throwing all that away just by canceling your sub. This setup is for those who want to play for Free and then buy what they want to buy, when they want to buy it, ie Mines of Moria, or whatever else. Sure I understand some stuff shouldn't be limited, but I understand why they limit what they limit, for example Gold, why did they limit it, so they keep out Gold Sellers, sure we may have more but, Turbine has been doing a damn good job of keeping the bulk of them out. I am not here to argue, and not to harrass the complainers, they can quit all they want. I am just saying that you quitters are quitting way to soon, just look at the past with what Turbine did, hell this stuff is subject to change. They may change anything at anytime. As for the items in shop, I'd say its just going to be stuff that you want to buy, not stuff you need. This isn't a game thats just coming out as a F2P, its transition from P2P to F2P. I believe the store will not change actual gameplay, but they did say that they will change the starting areas, to better faciliate, their transition to F2P.
Again, you have 2 character slots less than you have now, EVEN as a VIP (I currently have seven, VIPs only have 5). SO dont tell me that nothing is going to change for subscribers!!!
Plus, Gamecards wont work anymore. So that too is a change that I will very much dislike. Plus, F2P is annoying me. Nothing but brats that buy gear with their daddies money and annoy the crap out of everybody when they complain about the lack of XP from grind and that there is to much to read in the quest descriptions.
I dont need players like that. I just dont! Also, I can promise you that they will lower the XP you get even as a VIP player, compared to now. So that even VIPs will have to go and buy those XPboosters in their Shop. The whole idea of the shop makes me want to puke. It totally ruins emmersion in the game if I have constantly have to go and spend real cash on shit in their store, or even have to hear about others doing that! Hey maybe they will soon start spamming us with adds for their latest deal in their store.
Bottomline is developers are a business, business want to make money. F2P models make so much more money than subscription games ever will, except for WoW, but they advertise during primetime TV. If I add up all the money I've spent on online games, F2P games is about double AT LEAST, but I've played more hours on subscription games. It only makes sense as a business to go with the F2P model. I wouldn't be suprised in 10 years if there wasn't a single subscription game around. Get used to it.
P.S. I hope Mythic is watching, f2p DAoC and WAR anyone? :)
I gave up reading all the posts back about page 7, cause they are all the same. One group is pissed, the other group is fine.
I am a founder/life member. From the very beginning. So I have more than gotten my money's worth. I will continue to play cause I love the game. Turbine owes me nothing.
So things change. Does you life never change? Did you have a job and are now unemployed? Does everything run smoothly for you?
They promised things you say. But nothing is written in stone. Granted when I heard WB bought it I did go "oh S--T. But well it happens.
All games promise things, new content, better this or that. It doesn't always happen. I always worry when they say, "oh a patch will be on Mon morning" Thinking that something might not go wrong. Then when they say oops sorry we are having a problem. Then people go. "But you said mon morning." Maybe your life you have never had disappointment or things happen. Wonderful then.
To the ones that say "I Quit". well sorry you feel that way. Maybe later you will reconsider.
In regards to the thought of all the little twits that tend to be annoying. Ignore works great.
In the meantime, relax, breathe, and wait and find out. Waiting to see costs you nothing. If it helps the game, will that not be a good thing?
Wow, I only read the first couple pages because most people seemed clueless. All I saw was a ton of rants. Several people posted about how they had level 65 toons now and maxxed crafted guild rep. Then all they did was complain because they acted like it was all going to be taken away and they would have to "pay to win." Perhaps gamers need to work on their comprehension levels.
What is so hard to understand. If you have level 65 toons now then do you own a lifetime sub? Congratz you are a VIP member and you get to keep everything, plus you get a monthly stipend in their store. Nothing changes for you. You don't have a gold limit or crafting level limit. Or do you pay a monthly fee....guess what, just keep paying your monthly fee like normal and nothing changes. You will be a VIP member. How hard is that to understand.
What this does is give new players a chance to experience the world for free. They can then unlock parts of the game for cash, like a free to play model, or they can subscribe just like in the old system and be considered a VIP member. It is really that simple. The current players can just keep doing what they are doing now and stay at the same level.
Edit: I have a lifetime sub, and I think this is a great deal. Now all my friends that have been on the fence can come play with me. I lose nothing.
Agreed...Anyone who did not at least think this was a possibility with the success of DDO's Hybrid/F2P is a bit blind if you ask me...
As an Account holder on LOTRO it's REAL hard for Me to understand why anyone would have a big issue with this move to the Hybrid/F2P...I'm going to continue to Pay for My Sub and I'm thrilled this may mean a boost to Subs overall...There will be a boost in My own House...I know now that My Girlfriend and Her Son will be playing LOTRO every now and again...I have 2 Guildies that are coming back for sure...They only quit because they're always broke...
...I can't see how it will hurt anything to be honest...But it certainly is going to give Me more Folks to Play with...And that's all good if you ask Me...
Exactly!!!
Lifetime subscribers should get EVERYTHING for free.. including every item in the turbine shop and as many of them as they want.
I don't have a lifetime sub (glad I don't now), but there is no other fair way. Lifetime sub promises no other codes to access any of the games content. They already went back on that with Siege Of Mirkwood.. and lost alot of players.
Turbine are going to screw up here... this game didn't need to go free to play until it was dying. Now they have just cheapend it.
LIfetime subs promise only that those with one will never pay a monthly subscription fee. We paid for Moria. We paid for Mirkwood. Since I got mine at launch, I've basically been playing for free now for more than a year. I don't expect to be given every item in the new store for free. Egads! there's supposedly 2,500 items in there. I'll take my 500 points a month allowance and unlock more of the shared storage then save points for the next paid expansion (Rohan?).
The only point I can somewhat see is now (as a lifetime sub) you will be limited to what you can get with your 500 pts a month, whereas before you were not limited (those same items in the shop were already in the gameworld). It's a valid point, but it's a pretty narrow view if you want to focus only on the negative (probably the only negative).
I'm actually more dissapointed for those people who actually bought the lifetime memebership. Plus, here are my $40 going down the drain, guess I'll stick with WoW for now.
Keep in mind that when the game switches over to free to play, you might have as much at 4,500 points on day one.
Founder lifetime members get 1,500 points.
You get 500 points per anniversary of the game, so if you were there since day one, you get another 1,500.
You also get 500 a month until they launch the free to play, which is about three months or more so that's another 1,500.
then you get the first month, so that would be a total of 5000 turbine points in your wallet.
How much $ would you have to spend to get that much?
First of all read the fine print, you get to keep everything, if your already a subscriber, when transition occurs. There is no saying of Turbine taking away anything from what you already have, unless your like some who just up and quit without giving it a chance. So if you bought Mines of Moria, and Siege of Mirkwood. You get to keep the expansions, all character slots, everything that you got is yours to keep. The only reason why they have shown 5 is because thats how many a person who comes to play after LOTRO transitions to F2P. Next, they are not saying they will be adding actual stat'ed gear, its just cosmetic gear, just for looks, there is no "pay to win" crap. They did mention that there will be like a Beginners Pack with gear in it but thats all there is, just to help those new to the game. How do you know Gamecards wont work, found a page saying they wont? How is this game going to be a grind? This is not an actual Korean made F2P, where you just grind, but I guess doing tons of quest, counts as grinding to you. Because it really sounds to me like you think this game is going to turn into a Korean grindfest, please, just be quite.
Also no one is making you buy anything, so leave the game if your going to be all pissy about stuff you have no clue about.
The fact that they are dishonest (this isn't the only shady marketing blurb either) and that they aren't really providing a real content update for at least 9 months since their last one are really valid complaints. Who cares if I can play free if there isn't anything new since I left the last time. I don't care that they are altering their business model. I care that this is all they are doing with the game for nearly this whole year. Right now the game has very limited replayability because it's the same linear path it has always been.
I disagree with your last paragraph though. The problem is you're trying to moralize game mechanics. Turbine, or any company for that matter, should add stuff to their stores and games that make the game play more fun. It makes no sense to add a crappy item to a cash shop that no one wants to buy. The Warcraft mount is so successful because you get a mount as good as any in the game and it works on all of your characters. That makes the game more fun. It's not a necessary item, but it is really cool to have those. I have the account goat (from the AdPack) in LotRO and I love having it. Instead of worrying about what they might add that violates some imaginary gamer code of ethics, let them know what you would like in there if you did ever feel like spending an extra $5 or $10.
Unfortunately, for me at least, Turbine has chosen to sell pieces of game functionality in their F2S model instead of content and game enhancers. This is why I don't like DDO but don't mind the cash shops of Guild Wars, WoW, or EQ2. In DDO everytime I'm out adventuring Turbine will send me a message letting me know I can spend more money (on ammo, potions, rez twinkies, etc, blah, blah). I really hate having my game interrupted for that so I don't like their F2S model. When I play Guild Wars, WoW, or EQ2 there is a cash shop if I want to add stuff to make my game session more fun. If I don't they don't shove it in my face and I'm not reminded of it. Some cash shops are fun for me. Turbine's is not.
Maybe you should read the FAQ. I think that is the problem with most of the posts. The misinformation is astounding. If you have 7 slots now as a subscriber, you will have 7 slots after the F2P launch.
Did they lower the XP in DnDO when they launched the xp pots? We already have an example of what will happen, just look at DDO. We get too much xp as is. I wouldn't be upset at a decrease. Though I doubt they do that. The doom and gloom in this thread is hilarious. It's funny how everyone has become Miss Cleo.
I call bullshit on this. I've been playing DDO off and on for months, and not once have I ever been messaged in game about the shop unless I was trying to access something i had to pay for. Don't feed more misinformation into the pot.
Well maybe on non-roleplaying-servers (I guess US still don't have designated RP servers) the fact that some like it and some don't may be true.
As far as the german roleplaying community is concerned, 90% hate the change. There will be idiots creating characters with stupid names left and right in Bree.
While I _do_ know that the traditional idea of MMOPRGs as a multimedia development of the non-electronic RPG is a dieing breed, I can still truly hate the current facebookesque approach the genre is taking.
People tend to say "yay good thing more players, more freedom, more fun". That may all be right and true. But this dinosaur here thinks that the kids should get the f*** off my lawn and keep playing runescape, CoD IV or farmville. I personally would pay 50 bucks a month and get the age barrier up to 21 just to get rid of exactly the guys that flood free to play games.
Oh well, I can always go back to EvE and blow casual newbs up until they quit. Oh yea, and quit they will...
M
Aye, I have played DDO for quite awhile now aswell (now that it turned F2P), and I havent gotten any messages like that, expect on the areas that are only avalaible on purchase.
Turbine knows what they are doing with the cash shops.
All they are doing is taking Lotro, slicing it up like a pizza pie and selling each piece of explorable area off for a 1 time purchase.
If it's pricing is anything like the DDO store, then it could save you upwards of $50.
http://yfrog.com/ccddostorej
I'm not.
I'm actually disappointed that I never bothered getting the lifetime membership when it was offered and rather envy those that did.
...and I'm not sure one way or the opther how f2p will play out in this game. Some of you though are really being silly about it. Way too much doom & gloom going on when the reality is we're not sure how this will pan out yet.
I'm not disaapointed as a lifetimer either. I have gotten my money's worth. 3 years of gameplay, and I'll be a VIP member until the game officially closes. I'll get monthly credits even if I don't login. What is their to be angry about? I can keep playing the same game.
People said the same thing about DDO . Its now turned around from a failing game to a succesful one . LOTRO in comparison is more successful and i believe its a better game . Free to play may make it the most successful fantasy mmo this side of WoW . I would rather that than it face decline .
Unless you subscribe.
Well there goes the neigborhood, Abner!
Seriously, this is horrible news.....
1) LOTRO has one of the nicest communties around. It's one of the main strengths of the game. I expect it's going to take a serious nose dive from this. While I certainly don't equate economic status with how nice a person is, it's a simple axiom that how much care a person treats something with is directly related to how much they have invested in it (whether that investment be cash or some other measure). If it costs you $300 for a coat, you are going to treat that coat alot differently then something you pick up at Walmart for $10.
Alot of the new people that a F2P model is likely to attract WILL treat the community like trash. They have no reason NOT to do so... they have absolutely nothing invested in thier accounts....and nothing to loose by trashing it. Heck, without even at least requiring credit card verification in order to create an account...even if you don't charge anything on it.... there is nothing to stop a person from making an infinite number of accounts for the express purpose of griefing if they wanted to do so.
2) There is little doubt in my mind that part of Turbines scheme is to push current monthly and lifetime subscribers (VIP's in newspeak) into spending money on Micro-Transactions on top of our current fee's. Sure, we get 500 points per month for free. Exactly what does 500 points get you? Dollars to doughnuts, Turbine will calculate it to be less then what a typical user would use in a month from thier subscription. The cynic in me also tells me that Turbine will grandualy shift the game balance so most people will have to spend more then 500 points a month to get the same amount of gameplay they do now. I also have a sinking feeling that when new "features" are added to the game, most of the important ones will cost points to get, rather then be part of the VIP benefits. Under the subscription model, all of this was included in the price....and we could enjoy as little or as much of it as we wanted while paying 1 fixed fee. End result under F2P we'll end up paying more for less....watch and see.
3) Development Focus. Under the P2P model, development is (theoreticaly) focused on adding new and fun content to the game and new systems to improve the game. The primary focus being to keep the game environment fresh and fun in order to retain subs. On the new model, I have no doubt that the lions share of development will now go to things that they can directly monetize in thier cash shop. They will put in as little development as they can possibly get away with for people paying monthlies as that has no direct and immediate influnce on thier revenue (i.e. short term profits).
4) Audience focus. The switch from P2P to F2P also indicates a shift in thier audience focus. Under the classic subscription model, monthly retention is the key factor for income. You focus your assets on retaining your long term player base and making sure they stay subbed month affter month. Your goal is customer loyatly. The F2P model is a very different dynamic. The focus here is tends to be on one thing.... VOLUME. The more people you shove through your doors, the more opportunity you have to sell them product. While it's a nice bonus if those customers stick around and continue to buy in future....customer loyalty is far less important under this model. Get familiar with the term... CHURN. You can bet the Turbine exec's behind this move already are.
What we're seeing is the difference between eating out at a fancy resteraunt and eating at a fast-food joing. We've just been handed a turd happy meal and they are trying to tell us it's the same as the surf n' turf we're used to getting. Sorry, there is no other way to view this. Turbine management has been going downhill for a couple years now....this just confirms how far they've sunk.
Oh well...just happy that I've been into turn-based strategy wargames then MMO's these days. That's still a market dominated by people who love games.
The Chicken Little syndrome that crops up from time to time on these boards is really downright nauseating sometimes.
I'll bet all the little chickens are from Landroval too...
XD
You aren't reading what the game tells you then or you never die. The game encourages you to use the cash shop every time you exit an instanced dungeon before you complete it.
The Chicken Little syndrome that crops up from time to time on these boards is really downright nauseating sometimes.
Actually, I find the "battered gamer syndrome" far more nauseating. "Thank you Mr MMO company, may we have another?"
So? It doesn't force you to do anything. It simply provides an opportunity. Its your choice if you take it or not.
This went better than expected. Finally a company which actually gives lifers something back to us. And i agree with some people here, if they didn't make this change here in europe. Lotro woulda been dead, ddo as well. And judging by limited chat, areas, quest and all the other penalties F2P people will get. I do not see kids jumping in and ruining my day anytime soon.
You go turbine, you go girl!
Yeah, they're definitely one to just make you shake your head as well.
Although a lot of them are more humorous than anything because you can tell the majority of them usually just purchased the game or haven't made it to the problematic areas that other players are angered or debating over.
Kinda glad I canceled this a couple of months ago, seperates me some from the decision.
That being said, I'm not a real fan of the so called F2P models. I tolerate it on EQ2, but I did leave the game for over a year over it as well (where I went to LotRO...).
I prefer to know exactly how much I need to spend to enjoy the game how i want to enjoy it, whether I play 5 hours that week or 80.
I know, I know, F2P model is the way of the future. I for one, hope the future is rewritten and they get off of this mistake of a path before they destroy the entire genre.
Wow, EQ2 is f2p? Really? May actually give that game another go if this is true.
Is it or have I just been bamboozled?
see...i am not happy with the new model...but there is no other mmorpg i want to play atm so i am going to stick to this and see how it goes..
i like this game too much
I didn't say they forced you to do anything, neither did the poster who mentioned it in the first place. I was simply pointing out that they DO promote the item shop in game with what are effectively pop-up ads (even in several other instances in game as well), contrary to what the follow on posters were asserting.
No, this is why people shouldn't post on 4 hours of sleep :)
I meant to say...
I'm not a real fan of the so called F2P models and their cash shops. I tolerate the cash shop on EQ2, because they only offer fluff items on it, but I did leave the game for over a year over it as well.
Oh rats, I thought so but I don't follow that game much really so was hoping maybe I might have missed it. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm not either but outside of the level sigils in DDO (which they removed anyways so rather moot - although how in the hell anyone thought that was a good idea is beyond me) I don't mind how DDO was turned into f2p. If they're able to do something along those lines won't bother me in this game either.
So far the only things that I find to be a bit whacked is the gold limit seems too low in my opinion for f2p players and it really makes no sense to me that they won't allow players to use points acquired or purchasd for both games.
As for my overall opinion, I'm on the fence really at this point. I could see it being a boon for the game or being a disaster pending on how things are implemented.
Great, Reading this thread it seems like a lot of retards are leaving the game because of this and lots of cool people are going to be starting!!!
Which is exactly what happened to DDO, I've got a list as long as your arm of people who refuse to play ddo anymore, each and everyone of them are the unpleaseant type of gamer, the one who solo's and multibox's everything, the one who claims to be the best.. and yet always mysteriously gets a lag spike at a crucial moment.
So great, LOTRO is going to get a new price structure, a new injection of players... and to top it off, due to their own stupidity the retarded gamers are leaving, meaning that lotro will once again have a nice community
Bring it on! :D
It occurs to me that while (presumably) no one in this thread is a Turbine employee and therefore has very little idea of what will actually happen to LOTRO once it is free to play, there is an awful lot of assumptions being flung about regarding it. While I am not myself any more knowledgeable on the details of what Turbine has planned, I guess I can comment on my experience in F2P MMO's and how that might relate to this situation.
First, let me say that I am like many folks here in that I am no fan of the "pay to win" systems that have often been used in F2P games. I have not played DDO for more than an hour since it went F2P, so I cannot comment on how its system is implemented; I leave that to someone with some actual knowledge. However, the information I have seen on the system (reviews and customer testimonials) suggest that Turbine has not made a "pay to win" shop, and I have no reason to doubt this. As far as the possibility that this might change in the future, all I can say is, "You might get hit by a bus and die in the future. That doesn't keep you from going outside and enjoying the sunlight each day, does it?"
With that in mind, I cannot see how any regular player could see a benefit from a shop that sells only convenience items, unless the convenience items are XP/rest state boosts. Food and "Health/Mana" pots are already available from crafting in-game, and any decent Kin has people willing to flood you with them for nothing but a thank you. The same is true of any number of resources, and services such as zone porting are relatively easy as well. So the only sellable item I can see being useful would be the aforementioned boosts, and they, to my mind, are pointless to someone wanting to play a perpetual world.
Using an XP boost in an MMO is like living 70 years in 10; why would you rush your way to the end of your life and miss out on the journey there? I know the current thinking that all the "good content" is at the end, but how can you appreciate that "good content" if you didn't earn it by doing all the "mediocre content"? My children complain that they want to grow up, but my adult friends all wish they could go back and enjoy their youth again. Maybe if more people took the time to enjoy the time spent leveling, They wouldn't burn out as fast and would stick around in an MMO for longer than 5 minutes.
I suppose my real concern with any F2P game isn't having to buy things, because I simply won't (I have kids, as I said, and their needs come before Turbine's, or mine), nor is it the notion of a game overwhelmed with children (mine annoy me from time to time, but overall I'm ok with youngsters enjoying a product targetted towards them, as most all video games are). What concerns me is the potential for other, less desirable elements getting into the system. A free client and account means there is essentially nothing stopping the multitudes of spammers, farmers, conpersons, and hackers from deluging the servers with garbage and headaches, both verbal and technical. I left WoW because my account was hacked and it took them what I felt was way too long to address it. What will happen when the LOTRO admins are over-run with complaints from long-standing users that the chat channels are unusable for all the gold spamming? How long will it take to get items back after an account hijacking when Turbine has 1/20 the staff that Blizzard has? And what, if anything, does Turbine have planned to help combat these issues before they even start?
I've read comments that suggest that F2P players won't have access to chat channels to harass other players, which only makes me wonder why they would play then. How would they communicate with others on the server? How would they get into a quest group and get through group content? Are they suggesting that all content would be soloable then? Wouldn't that, by definition, make LOTRO no longer an MMO, and instead a Massively Singleplayer Online Game?
As I said before, I am not privvy to Turbine's decision-making on this, so all I can say for certain I know is that I don't know. However, these are questions I would certainly like to see answered before I make up my mind on whether or not to continue playing.
Well, if you consider the typical F2P gamer a component of a "nice community" I wish you and they all the best...<face palm> ^^
I suspect it was some bean counter type who came up with this idea... Only time will tell how it works out. I played LOTRO up to level 39 or 40(guardian) its just not my type of game. But to each their own.
I think this might be intresting.
I got life with code-masters but never upgrade to Siege of Mirkwood, partly because it requires a credit card but partly because the game was getting very stale indeed. It had degenarated into endless grind for legendary items and radiance gear. As far as I am concerned, the game got to big. Shadows of Angmar was doable but Moria was just "no way am I going to do all those damn dungeons where mobs are randomly spaced everywhere with all my alts".
The game was a lot of fun till 50, then it became something else.
It could do with a reboot. As a lifer I don't think I have been shafted on the original price. Granted, Turbine/Codemasters REALLY need a major course on customer satisfaction. Most MMO companies give old timers small ingame presents. Turbine/Codemasters seems to think giving an ingame painting would cost them an arm and a leg. They must come from regions of the planet where things like Christmas customer relation gifts are unhead of.
But the game has been good fun and I played it long and often enough that I saved on subscription. Plus I can always pick it up if I feel the need. 500 points, well no idea how far those will stretch in practice, but in essense I am playing for free now. Granted, they could do better but I will just use this as a warning never ever to deal with these companies again. They don't know how to deal with their customers.
Maybe if it revives the game it allows them the resources to overhaul the game. 50 percent change it will be for the better. Anything that gets rid of the current "1/6 lfg, only item worth taking, taken so essentially I need 5 people to give me a free ride" attitude that the radiance gear has brought.
Be intresting to see how they handle the expansion packs. But to all those who want their money back... grow up. Games always get cheaper when they get older. When Id makes their old games/engines opensource do you demand your money back as well?
Just hope the shire can handle the F2P crowd. Poor hobbits.
This is enough to make me give the game a try again. I bought it when Mines of Moria came out, and only stuck with it a month. I am excited to give it another go!
The nerd rage is strong with this thread.
Personally I am glad LOTRO is going the way of DDO. The game very much needs new life/players in the game. As many players kept to themselves or stay within their own social circles. Grouping up was for the most part an impossible task. I know there was a huge thread on Turbine's LOTRO forum on the solo players and multiple threads on how hard it was to find groups. Hopefully the people that login are more group friendly.
As far as F2P games goes, what is so bad about them?
Also since when did F2P with mmo games meant that the whole game was free to access and play? I always thought access was free.
F2P? New players going to group? I sure hope so, and SOE take a look, or take another bullet to your player count. (Combine EQ1 servers and cancel Vantard is on the horizon)
With hate SOE, die!
It’s obvious that LOTRO wasn’t living up to the expectations of the suits or it would never have come to this. There is far more stability in monthly subs and if the game had millions of players, each paying a monthly fee, I doubt the F2P option would have even come up. Just my opinion of course.
While the success of this F2P model has been proven with DDO, what applies to one game doesn’t apply to all of them. In a way, it’s a big gamble for Turbine and they could lose big if they don’t get the same response that DDO received. Think “NGE” and SWG but instead of content, it’s on the monetary side of things.
When everything sorts itself out, F2P may be a great boon for this game. People who pay a standard sub will only notice that there are more players in game and everything else will be the same. My son plays DDO and for him the monthly sub game was the same, except for the huge population jump and amount of content that the dev’s were able to put in since the change. Besides, people who play this game … and it is a high quality game … may just decide to sub full time.
While I understand that people don’t want change and are even afraid of it, I would wait and see what happens before I did anything to fight/protest it. The changes haven’t been made and yet people are condemning it right out of the gate, which makes their arguments pitiful since they have no experience with it. It’s kind of sad that people are like this. It’s amazing we ever made it out of the stoneage.
I don’t play LOTRO because I didn’t like the feel of the combat system as well as the forced grouping nature of the storyline. I doubt I will even try this game again unless that has changed. Even so, I would be surprised if many players didn’t return and bring others with them If Turbine has the same success with LOTRO that they did with DDO, expect new servers. From what I understand, DDO is planning to open a new one soon. We will see.
What I also find interesting is that between DDO and LOTRO … once again both high quality games … what does this do for the other existing and future F2P games? Has the bar been raised in terms of quality content? Turbine may have just “shook the F2P world” and the fallout should be entertaining.
I for one am happy that I get to finally play this title. I don't pay monthly fees to play a game when I can get single player games or even some MMO's for free.
Now that said, I also have played DDO and tried to lead a guild there. The quality of the individual players went down drastically from my prior game. I was unable to hold a guild after three attempts.
A large part of the problem is that when you go to a door with a party and they all go in, you get a pop up message saying "you must pay to play this dungeon". And all my party is in there in that dungeon because they payed money to play a quest....
I think that's where most people will have a problem Mike. There's no point in playing an MMO if the community is in the dregs and we can't group. I'd rather go play a single player game with better storyline and quests. (general statement about MMO quests, no offense to LOTRO quests)
I for one am happy that I get to finally play this title. I don't pay monthly fees to play a game when I can get single player games or even some MMO's for free.
Now that said, I also have played DDO and tried to lead a guild there. The quality of the individual players went down drastically from my prior game. I was unable to hold a guild after three attempts.
A large part of the problem is that when you go to a door with a party and they all go in, you get a pop up message saying "you must pay to play this dungeon". And all my party is in there in that dungeon because they payed money to play a quest....
I think that's where most people will have a problem Mike. There's no point in playing an MMO if the community is in the dregs and we can't group. I'd rather go play a single player game with better storyline and quests. (general statement about MMO quests, no offense to LOTRO quests)
Poster was implying that he was getting messages from Turbine while playing. Not while logging in, not while dead in game, not while loading the area. So yeah, I stand by my original assertion. Bullshit.
So you have a link to the statements in question?
Sure, but pay-to-not-grind seems to be more like it though. LOTRO is all about the questing & storyline. Take away any of that & make people pay for decent quests piecemeal & the game devolves into a f2p grindfest race to top level. Someone pls tell me it's not so. :-/
I've been back & forth as an (ir)regular sub since open beta (probably clocked 2+ years so far) over 3 accounts (one of which my mate took over after trying it through me - shhhhhh! ;) - he now runs 2 accounts of his own for the Mrs & him & has been paying monthly or 3-mthly for 1-2 years continually). This development could give a more casual player like myself the luxury of playing when I can without feeling like I'm blowing $15 just to play for an hour or two in a particularly busy month. If you do it right Turbine. Just don't forget who got you here thus far...
I also suggest Turbine take a close look at AO to see how you foster a great community spirit while maintaining a long-term f2p model.
I never said I got popups. I said Turbine reminds while I'm playing to spend cash. They do it a lot. I go to storage and a huge windows pops up with text in the middle trying to sell me shared storage. Every time I zone the loading screen is offering something. At least there has been some improvement becasue when I entered the instance low on ammo this time there was no message offering to buy ammo. I also didn't get any messages leaving the store this time. I have had them before because I've been playing DDO off and on since before they went F2S and after. It's good they toned down the messages some, but don't pretend like they didn't exist. Next you'll claim the adwall was just an urban legend.
In any event if you think this won't change LotRO dramatically you're fooling yourself. It changed DDO and LotRO is a much more immersive RP environment than DDO has ever been.
And you believed him didn't you? I mean it's not like these developers have a habit of lying through their teeth on subjects such as these right? Only the most naive person would believe that in time this won't turn into some gross pay to win scenario as they get more and more cash coming through.
They are going cash shop because they want to increase revenue this means that sure at launch it'll be tame so that they can pacify the current playerbase and suck in as many F2P tight wads as possible. Then once they have enough it'll start getting vulgar with XP potions and buffs. New content will go into the cash shop and those guys that paid for a life time sub to a now F2P game with a cash shop will realise that they've been stiffed by Turbine.
What else was that guy gonna say to you and your softball journalists anyway? He knew you weren't going to ask any uncomfortable questions and just spouted what he wants us to believe, "don't worry it's ok your game is a F2P micro transaction piece of trash now but the cash shop will never give anyone an unfair advantage!", what a load of bologne!
This only proves the point to anyone still in doubt that life time subscriptions are for retards, most developers are liars and most game studios are run by suits and bean counters not by gamers.
FACT!
Well said! Virtue / Deeds directly affect your character's power! Do we need to say more??
People need to wake up, open their eyes and don't be so naieve!
there are ways to make cash shops work in f2p games without disrupting too much when it's only cosmetics or some mild additional grinding but unfortunately a manager's often has every interest to make life in a mmorpg annoying up to nearly impossible for a free or even a paying player in order to 'convince' them to spend cash.
that was the reason i quit a game like runes of magic where my thoughts about the developers greed hampered the experience even though i eventually payed more than in a subscription based mmorpg (:p) ... a 'f2p' game like that became (after a much more enjoyable beta with an acceptible cash shop principel) is simply build around earning/scamming money in so many ways that a game eventually feels 'soaked' with greed instead of fun.
as for lotro ... it's funny that the site mentions both 'free trial' and 'going free' at the same time currently ... less funny is one of the 'free trial' conditions: you're not allowed to trade with players during your trial period. if they'd keep a rule like that while it's so-called 'free to play' then that one rule is already enough to say i won't even bother to try this game because it's going to push any game into a 'have' and 'have not' class system where the 'have nots' are going to try in as devious ways as gold sellers just to attempt to enjoy the same quality of game as the 'haves' and such things are devastating for game communities.
Great response. Posters have more sense than editors.
Locked quests to be unlocked by money. A Gold bag limited by money. Content to be unlocked by money. Potions that makes you win to be bought by money. Deeds to be unlocked by money.
The "I win" button to be unlocked by money is only XXXX dollars away.
Wow, the amount of misinformation is unbelieveable. Do people actually read anything before they post? Deeds are not being sold. Deed slots are. You still have to work for that deed.
Lifers and subscribers who have already purchased all the expansions do not have to pay to unlock content or gold bags. Only F2P'ers have to purchase this kinda thing. The only "I Win" button I see is in your imagination.
So the way i see it, the games subscriber level had fallen way lower than what was required to cover the games running costs, therefore they had to come up with some other idea. I have been told alot stopped playing because the last expansion was shite and they stopped through pure boredom. Strange though as 6 mths ago i thought the game was doign pretty well. Just goes to show how quickly a game can fall.
Or maybe its this: Turbine has a failing game, DDO. Turbine tries something out new. Its a massive success. Turbine thinks wow, this has worked out well, wonder how this would work applied to our other game? So they try it...Actually it's trait slots not deeds (those are just moderate grinds for virtues or titles), according to their comparison chart, and that heavily impacts game play. Trait builds and bonuses ARE what makes class roles in LotRO. Try joining that instance group or raid if you don't have your traits available. What good is a Lore-master at end game if they can't build properly? The bonuses from traits make decent game play possible in the later game.
The gold cap is also pretty huge. Before SoM was released even a good third age level 60 LI (depending on the class) might go for over 5 gold. A good second or first age weapon were way over 5 gold. Having the gold level capped is bigger than it sounds.
Turbine isn't selling just selling content and quests. They are gutting a few core pieces of their game and then selling them back. Instead of adding things to the shop to make the game more fun they are making the game less fun and then letting you buy the fun parts back. It may work for the traditional Free2Start crowd, but let's not pretend that isn't what they're doing.
There is an easy way to get around this. Pay the monthly fee to be vip and play like the game is now. You people dont realize that the people getting screwed will be the F2p players. All of the restrictions are to get f2p people to either subscribe or spend money in the store. VIP subscribers have NO restrictions.
Ok, crybabies. Try to refute that?
Nothing to refute there (except that the F2S players aren't just buying content - that was the point after all not that you can't get around it). But you're also only teling part of the story. Just like DDO changed dramatically after Free2Start, LotRO will change and it won't be the pretty world it is now. Turbine will continue to develop their game as a one shot experience using Tolkein's storyline instead of creating an immersive Middle-Earth.
The VIP experience in DDO isn't like having a sub used to be, although you get the same benefits, because the game is different now. It feels a bit different playing and the community is definitely different. LotRO won't be the same either. Some people will like the new direction, especially those just looking to play a game once or twice through and then move on. Others, MMO hobbyists and those looking for an immersive world to spend time in, probably won't like it so much and will look for something else to play.
My hope is that there will still be gaming enthusiasts (developers) and studios that like to make good games.
What part of the whole "you can grind in game to earn currency to unlock these items" are you people just not comprehending?
Honestly Lotro's style fits well with this model. LotRO is an episodic game at its core. The soul of the game is its epic storyline, following along with the rings journey and all the events surrounding it. Its designed to slowly unfold Middle Earth in front of us as we make our trek across it. It allows a smoother development cycle without the pressure to bundle up a ton of content as an expansion.
Just look at the debacle that is WoW. they planned a content progression to last through wotlk and then have an expansion ready. however its obvious that the expansion has taken longer to develop than anticipated, so players are stuck with the same content for an extended period of time. This type of system helps prevent this from happening.I agree, really though I wouldn't so much as say it would be grinding as it would be getting through quests more so. This isn't a Korean Grindfest game, that you just go around killing xx amount of monsters for some lousy quest.
As for the poster; bobbadud, Turbine has some reasons that you can't see or comprehend as to why they have quite a bit of things locked. Your going on and on about this stuff, but if your a Sub already, like me, you would already have everything unlimited and unlocked, when they go F2P. So quit your complaining, the transition doesn't happen till this Fall. So all you complainers just take a chill pill. Also be smart and check out the official site, rather than reading an article on only a few details. Really you complainers should be more informed before talking smack about what you don't know. Now if your not a Sub, well to bad for you your going to have to pay to unlock stuff past the F2P area, if you want to progress further into the game. Turbine isn't just going to give you all the expansions/unlockables to you for free, so deal with it.
I'm sorry, but you subscribers who think you haven't been shafted by this move are in denial. You need to read through the corporate-speak coming out of the suits writing the official press releases. You also need to understand how the thought process of the MBA's who cook up these schemes work.
Basicaly, here is what is happening. Up until now, we've all been members of a nice private club with a swimming pool. We pay a reasonable fixed monthly fee that allows us to enjoy ALL the amentities of the club as little or as much as we want. In other words, we determine the level of value we are getting out of our membership by our use. It's a perfectly functional model and believe me, Turbine has made a very nice profit from it so far.
Now along comes a change in management of the club and rather then continuing to build on the nice stable business they have by gradualy increasing the membership by improving thier advertising, offering fresh new amenties to attract new members and retain the ones they have... they decide to "go big" and "commoditize" thier service. Make no mistake, this is a make or break move. It will either pay off Turbine in boatloads or it will completey ruin the business (if the execution isn't superb) but either way it will DRASTICALY alter the nature of the club you have enjoyed so far.
The first thing they do (this has ALREADY been done) is that they divert many of the resources used to keep up the grounds and to put in fresh new amentites into this commiditization project. They do this silently, without letting the membership know whats going on. As a result the grounds start looking a little stale and dishelveled and some of the membership leaves as a result. This provides even more ammo for management to justify thier big move...even though they created the problem themselves through diversion of the resources needed to keep the place up. They then anounce thier big move that's needed to "revitalize" the business to the membership..... along with lots of assurances (read spin) of how nothing will change for the current membership and only good things will come of this.
They are going to open up the club to the public, free of charge. so that everyone can come in. They'll charge the public cash on an item by item basis for using certain of the amenities (towels, soft-drinks, ice, etc). All these will of course remain free (or so they assure you) to paying members. Here's what actualy will happen....and what the new management is planning behind the scenes.
There WILL (if things go the way management hopes) be a huge new influx of people coming into the club. A certain percentage of these people will spend some cash on amenties (hence why management wants to let them in). Now some of these new people will indeed be very nice folk who just, for one reason or another, weren't going to pay a membership fee. Others, however, will be absolute riff-raff.... I'm sorry that sounds harsh, but it's the plain and simple truth... They'll pee in the pool, be rude to the staff and other guests, etc. Some of the people coming in will be coming in for the express purpose of starting trouble. Now here is one of the kickers.... Management will spend the absolute minimum in resources they can get away with to police the trouble-makers coming in. They'll probably not even increase the staff/resources already devoted to policing such things...even though the volume of problems this staff will need to deal with has just increased dramaticaly. They'll do this because in thier view, such policing efforts are considered a "cost center" not a "profit center"... and they don't want to spend very much on cost-centers. Furthermore their new business model depends on large volumes (heck even some of the trouble-makers may spend some money).... so they won't want to spend much on anything that might retard that volume. They WILL show some of the worst trouble-makers the door...so that people aren't too outraged... however since no one is checking ID at the door, there will be nothing to stop those trouble-makers from turning around and walking right back in....and the trouble-makers won't face any incentive not to do so.
Furthermore, you are going to start to see something else happening. Although members will start out with all the ammenties they currently enjoy included in thier membership fees...there would be a mass revolt otherwise. When new ammenties are added, or when existing ammenties are "improved" (read problems caused by the mass influx of guests are addressed) you are going to start to see some "premium surcharges" put on these ON TOP of the normal membership fee's..... in other words, membership no longer buys you access to all the ammenties in the club anymore...like it did before. Note that this will happen VERY gradualy and subtley.... so gradualy and subtley that many folks won't even notice....and those that do and complain will be painted (at first) as making mountains out of mole hills. This is called the "boiling frog" syndrome..... if you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water, it'll jump out right away.... however if you put the frog in the pot while the water is still cold and gradualy increase the heat, it'll stay in the pot until it boils to death. Trust me, the MBA's that cook up these type of schemes are WELL aquainted with that syndrome...in fact, they count on it in thier business plans.
What the end result for the existing membership of the club is that you'll end up with degraded services and ultimately paying more (through nickle and dime fees) for your membership. The thing that you need to be aware of is that this is exactly what the MBA running the show WANTS to achieve. It's not because they are evil...it's a simple business calculation.... providing services costs overhead (money)....collecting higher fees provides revenue (money). Maximizing profit (the holy grail of the MBA) means reducing overhead as much as you can while increasing revenue. Again, this is not evil...it's how business works. However as a CONSUMER it does work against your self interests.... your interests are the opposite of the business owner....you want to get as many services as you can for as little as you can get away with paying.
A healthy arrangement strikes a balance/compromise between the two competing sets of interests where both sides feel reasonably satisified. As a consumer, you don't need to feel the business owner is your enemy.... but you absolutely DO need to be aware when the business owner is trying to change the balance of the existing bargain on you....and you need to let them know you are aware. Make no mistake.... this move by Turbines new management is an attempt to majorly alter the nature of our current bargain with them as consumers....Don't let anyone try to snow you that it isn't.
Turbine is doing a good thing to this game by making it F2P, but providing a benefit to subscribing/buying... as any company that wants to make money should do.
When I read the complaints, i'm seeing alot of "this game isn't as free as it should be. I don't like the limits they put in for free players."
Screw off.... it's free.
Hell... I don't even like to call it free, it's a new subcscription model that allows you to play for free with limitations.
They essentially gave people who didn't want to pay MORE access... and some of those individuals get all butt hurt because they still have a problem with it.
As for Pay to Win... Win what? It's not like this game was PvP-oriented.
You could walk into most dungeons with zero traits equipped and probably do just fine on your own. if you want to top damage or healing charts... if that is your "Win"... then pay for it.
And... as always... go play something else that suits your wallet.
I have already mentioned that I was excited about the F2P in a earlier post. I can honestly say that I am surprised about a lot of the negative comments throughout this thread. For all of the LotRO vets, not all of us new players will be childish and stupid. I have been playing MMO`s since 2001 and I have never used a "cash for" item in any game. I`m a older gamer and I like to get things accomplished in a MMO. I think a lot of the LotRO vets will be happy to see new players once the F2P goes live. I know there will be some "bad apples" amung the new players, but some of us will be experienced and good players.
As far as the free game being limited goes, that is fine by me. If I like the free part, I will simply get the expansions and subscribe. I think that only the people who really want to play the game will subscribe, thus keeping out a lot of the idiots. Honestly though, the only game that has made me dislike it because of the community was World of Warcraft.
I`m still looking forward to playing this game. Hope to see some of you very soon.
How many pages is this thread now ? And all I see is a lot of assumptions and speculation. If many of you had actually read the original announcement made by Turbine, you would know that there will be a beta test for the current proposed system. All of these people saying " well I know how business people speak ", and " the devs are just candy-coating it so it doesn't sound so bad ". Do you work for Turbine ? Do you know what they are thinking or doing in their offices ? Didn't think so. You're just assuming that you know what the hell is going on. I, for one, am looking forward to new players in game. And if you don't like the changes, I look forward to you not being in game.
There is a reason Turbine has been in business as long as they have.
Interesting that the interview seemed to convey the opposite message. Hmm. Worth looking into I think, and I thank you for telling me this.
If Lotr sells things in the RMT shop that give competitive advantages to characters (e.g. stat potions), I simply have no interest in that. This kind of business model is far too manipulative for my liking. Sure you can play for free, but you'll suck. No thanks. I wouldn't want to be the weak link, and I wouldn't want to reach for my visa card to be on par with my peers.
Like I said in an earlier post, if the RMT items affect performance, this business model can be extremely manipulative. For instance, they can make a grind take a really long time, be extremely difficult, or be very boring and repetative. Why would they do this? Well, the last training session I reviewed for MMO service providers, they discussed how to use impatience to drive up demand for virtual items.
If you understand the significance of what I've just shared, you'll see why people have a problem with this. The devs have the power to shape the virtual environment so that players need/want/crave more virtual items. Would they do this? Well if their CEO wants to up the quarterly profits and tells them they have to, some will, just to keep their jobs. Most MMO houses are laying people off these days.
Call bullshit all you want. Turbine pushes their cash shop on you ALL the time in the game. I never said I got messages from Turbine. I said they push their cash shop at you a lot while you're playing. Anytime after you login, you're playing the game, not just when I'm sneaking up on bugbears, orcs, or kobolds.
I've never been interrupted in combat, but I have been "offered" help after death, when low on ammo, or if I didn't play well and ran low on health and power before finishing an instance. I can't figure out what triggers the offers outside of a few things like opening storage. Of course every single fricken loading screen is an ad, but that is to be expected I guess. I'm not talking about loading screens though.
Log in to the game, go to storage and open it. If you hven't already bought the shared storage a HUGE window opens up with an advert to get shared storage.
They have toned it down somewhat compared to the relaunch and they do listen to their players to a degree (which I can only guess is the reason why the push is a bit less pushy). That's a good thing. But when you compare their push for a player to buy crap in the shop to games like Guild Wars, EQ2, or WoW the contrast is plain.
What part of you can't earn enough Turbine points in game without rerolling doesn't sound fun or even realistic. In DDO I haven't found a way, and I could be missing something, to earn enough TP to unlock everything. Can you really earn enough to do that? The only way I can figure is by rolling a toon, doing the quests, gathering hte points, deleting and re-rolling. Is there another way that I'm missing because I am trying to see how much I can collect.
This sounds like an example of what I'm talking about. The grind can be extremely long, repetitive etc., so that people will become frustrated and hit the cash shop.
Another game that does this gives you two options:
1) harvest sweat off creatures (no kidding) for a very, very long and boring time, or
2) hit the cash shop and make with the visa payments.
That doesn't sound like entertainment to me; it sounds like a virtual money pit. To companies with this business model, I say, "piss off." To fellow gamers I'd say, "buyer beware, they're setting you up."
I simply dont get it. Really i dont. Let me get this straight, a couple of posters above me complain that a game, they currently cant play at all without spending money, will not be as much fun after going F2P unless you spend money. Is that about the gist of your problems? That you cant get everything as a free player who isnt supporting the company making the game one bit? That there are maybe even pieces of the game that require you to spend money if you want them?
The way some people here complain they want everything subscribers get, not pay any money and have all of that be financed by some kids in a basement with a unlimited CC buying cosmetic items which do no affect gameplay at all. That about sums it up?
Ya'll whine a lot. I like the F2P/Store model of DDO, and I like that they're doin' it for LOTRO. I will be coming back!
you know, the heroin dealer on my block has a f2p program, too. The guy that sells coke at the bus stop has a f2p policy, also. The idea is to hook you and then you pay. f2p is not Free. You don't get to play. You get to visit a couple of areas. You get to dance around the halls. If you want to be part of the game, you have to open up your wallet. Calling it f2p is misleading, and I feel should be illegal. If you can't start a game and finish a game without opening up your wallet, it is not f2p.
I know your post is hyperbole but you're actually not far from the point. I was reading a discussion about F2S. I think it was from a MMORPG.com article on E3 East. The idea is to get the credit card numbers on file with the company. No one wants to spend money but if they can get that player to register and enter the CC number then it's so much easier for that player to justify spending even a tiny bit of money later. In essence they would rather have one million CC numbers on file that might spend some money than 250,000 subscribers only spending $9.99 a month. It is much easier to design game play in such a way as to get those million to spend money later.
If it is really FREE TO PLAY then I want everything, every piece of content I purchased before and play with that for free. I don't mind paying for anything new in the future but I don't want to be required to repurchase what I've already bought.
If they limit what I've purchased then it isn't Free to Play, it is CRIPPLE WARE and a LIMITED PLAY. That is what bugs me. That and I think their dev efforts will end up gimping the quality of the game, but that's another issue.
Thats the whole point, you didnt buy it before, you rented it, the only ones who bought it are the lifetimers. Now you get to buy it, dont like that? Well keep renting it.
I for example got me a NA account with their recent special, i paid 10$ for SoA, MoM and Mirkwood + 30 days. I would have been a braindead monkey if i had thought that would cover all the content from 1-65 in the game and meant i owned it. I mean seriously, 10$ for all that stuff + 30 days if the monthly fee alone is 15$?
You did damn well know when you bought the game that you would only be able to play it aslong as you paid your subscription. Now they change it, you dont have less while your subscribed, but you get more once you unsubscribe. And you feel cheated?! You dont have to buy anything again aslong as you stay subscribed, and if you unsubscribe you will still have more than before, so excuse me if im thinking your unreasonable. Not about your fear that they are going to gimp the game though, im a bit worried about that too.
Then again, the game wasnt going into such a good direction before either, giving the players more voice on the developement direction, if only by their wallets, has to count for something.
Though you are completely on the mark, I can feel Torvaldr's pain.
Part of it is perception. When we buy an expansion or event the original game, we feel like we are purchasing the game. Even though the fine print says we are purchasing access.
Part of this is how we as a society have always bartered and traded. We are used to an excchange of goods and services for goods and services.
It's the shift in our mentality that these games are services over an actual product that we own where we falter.
I even toyed with dropping my sub once this f2p thing took off. However I then realized that quite a bit of the game might have to be repurchased by me. I can see where that would be frustrating.
Same idea but different conclusion here, i see that i have to buy stuff i completed before again, but its finally the last time. For example my Warden is level 45 and my LM is 35. I will now focus on bringing both to the beginning of moria, once f2p hits i drop to premium, and can be busy doing all the moria and mirkwood content without having to buy anything. The question when i have to pay again will only arise with my next twink, will i buy a couple questareas to level to moria or will i subscribe for a month? I dont know, but i have the choice.
Btw, strangely we do not have to buy moria and mirkwood content, only SoA, so its not that bad as it seems considering you only need a bit of that now to complement the book quests and skirmishes.
Lol guys, you sound like those wall street dudes. Will I have to buy this or that.
I do realize that we're not really "buying" anything. I'm making the difference between content purchases (SoA, MoM, and AdPack/Mirkwood) and renting access to their servers for the last 3 years via subscription. I make the differentiation because that seem to be how Turbine is dividing out content to be purchased and access as a VIP.
They are honoring past purchases of content packs (SoA, MoM, Mirkwood, AdPack), but they are removing some features already purchased and allowing the player to re-purchase them. If they had just removed those and only allowed them for VIPs then I would understand. But they are blurring the lines between the two to maximize their revenue return. In the amorphous and subjective world of greed and milking your customers I'm saying they're crossing that line.
It's not necessarily a deal breaker for me, but I'll certainly call it like it is. The problem with trying to sort these things out or make value judgements in black & white is that we live in a gray world. I can certainly see the issue from two sides.
Been looking at LOTR for a while and this is great..gonna give it a try!!
Great news for me. Time to come back :)
Um, what exactly are they removing from VIP's that they had before in F2P. They have explicitly said that all VIP's keep what they have, plus they get the base cosmetic item bank and the 500 monthly points for free.
I think lotro going f2p is the worst thing they could've done with this franchise other then making monster play completely seperate and making it pretty much a strictly only pve game. I do love this game it is fun, but to me going f2p just means less resources being invested into it.
Finally got my wife interested in playing this game. Glad it's going f2p.
I didn't say VIPs. I said they are making some content availabe for purchase such as character slots, shared storage and such. Some of that was purchased (in the loosest sense of the word) when I bought Shadows, Moria, and the AdPack+Mirkwood combo. Most of that appears to be transferring over as permanent paid content (eg: I will keep my RK, Warden whether I am a subscribed VIP or Premium member) and other content I purchased such as character slots I will lose as a Premium member (I will lose 2 of the 9 slots I purchased).
If Turbine had started out with this model I would be keeping whatever I purchased and obviously missing out on what I didn't. Since they have changed the model midstream they can pick and choose what is transferred over or not. Turbine is making a distinction in paid for content between Shadows, Moria, and the Mirkwood+AdPack in that the MoM and SoM+AdPack content will all transfer over (if I understand it properly) however, the SoA content is being divided up a bit; some will transfer over and the rest won't.
Turbine is definitely within their right to do so, however it still makes me feel as though they didn't appreciate the effort and support I put into them for the last 3 years with founder pre-orders, MoM and SoM/Adpack preorders and keeping a continual sub for so long. Giving a tiny bit extra to their long term supporters would have gone a long way to engendering good will and loyalty. They're also only rewarding those who maintain an active sub from the end of this month to the October release with about $50 worth of TP even though that means about $60 worth of sub fees. This is why I feel they're being a bit greedy and showing a casual disregard for customers who have supported them.