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Interview with Turbine's Craig Alexander
Carolyn Koh recently had the opportunity to chat with Craig Alexander, VP of Product Development at Turbine, about the current and future happenings in Lord of the Rings Online.
I was curious to know what challenges Turbine had faced in transforming Tolkien’s famous work into an MMORPG and what else players had to expect in future expansions and had the ability to speak to Craig Alexander, Turbine’s VP of Product Development and Meghan Rodberg, Senior Manager of Online Community Relations at the recent LOGIN Conference in Seattle.
Currently, the Mines of Moria are open for players. The storyline is set in Moria itself, and at this point in time, the narration has changed from Gandalf to Galadriel as the Fellowship has already passed through Moria and Gandalf is presumed lost. The chronology however, is not the same for all players as the game makes use of instances to advance the epic storyline.
“The nice thing about MMOs is that we can go back and change things as the story moves forward,” said Meghan, referring to how for players that have advanced through the storyline no longer see members of the Fellowship wandering around in the public landscape. They still can be found by new players playing through the beginning story, but the quest now takes them into an instanced area.
The game also employs what they call session play. Players can actually see events that lead up to the current storyline, sometimes briefly seeing events unfold through the eyes of one of the lead characters and playing the story through in their shoes.
“Tolkien described some characters and areas in great depth and detail,” said Meghan, “and yet left others such as the nameless ones untouched. Which allowed us free reign to make them what we wished, within the context of the Middle-Earth.”
“Gameplay is paramount,” said Craig, “and really, it was actually easier in a way, than having to craft an original IP. Our storyline is laid out for us.”
“Mines of Moria is the natural second step for us in the storyline,” said Meghan, “a continuation of where Shadows of Angmar left off, and the next chapters will bring this storyline right up to and prepare us for Tolkien’s second book, The Two Towers.”
“How did the players and Tolkien purists accept magic users?” I asked, referring to one of the new classes introduced in Mines of Moria, the Runekeepers.
“Our magic users aren’t just mage or wizard lookalikes. Their magic hearkens back to ancient magic. The use of runes and the magic of the earth, and that’s very much in keeping to the Medieval European setting that Tolkien based Lord of the Rings on,” said Meghan.
Craig was more than pleased to talk about what was to come.
“Now that the Misty Mountains has been penetrated, we have the entire East area to play with and you can expect to see new lands open up for exploration regularly as we move the storyline forward.”
Essentially, players wanting to know what are to come simply have to read or re-read Tolkien. Yes, Gollum gets into the game. Yes, along the way, Boromir dies. Yes, Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White (He dinged! Yes, he did!) No, players will not be able to have flying mounts. The eagles helped Gandalf. No one else. Period. Yes, the goats in Moria were a way to have mounts within the mines.
Game experience and feature wise, Turbine has moved the entire game to DX10, utilizing and taking advantage of the advanced graphic features. The game has also moved to be more solo-friendly and more small fellowship quests have been introduced. The Reflecting Pools or Shrine System allows players to replay Epic story line instances that have been complete. The newbie experience was revamped in Book Seven and Book Eight, to be released in June will bring 12 man raids deep in the Mines of Moria.
“There’s also the Summer Festival and more dance emotes for players to discover,” said Craig.
“Dance emotes?” I asked.
“Oh yes! There’s more than just one or two dance emotes. The most expensive item I found in the Auction House recently was a dance move! You can do more than just slash dance.
Players, it seems, have been cagey about the new moves they’ve learned and not sharing freely. I wanted to know if humor and pop culture references were planned. “Well, some of them are,” said Meghan, “but we are careful not to over do it. Some players love playing the Moore Cowbell, you know? From Saturday Night Life? Some players absolutely hate that animation.”
“Easter eggs are often snuck in by a programmer and some of them are marvelous, but then again there are those that we or players find and we go OMG! And remove with extreme prejudice.” Laughed Craig, “But we did put in Orcs in Moria that call out Fellowship maneuvers and screw them all up.”
Two new classes were introduced in Mines of Moria and I asked if more were planned.
“New classes are a good thing.” Craig said solemnly.
“So, there are more to come?” I asked.
“Well, you know, we have the rights out to 2017 right now, and the second book comes next, not to mention that rights can be extended. As new areas, new lands, new cities are discovered by the players in game, what’s to say that the next city won’t have a specialist class as yet to be encountered? There’s Rohan… Helms Deep… and countless other places East of the Misty Mountains,” said Craig.
“We have areas described and areas mentioned but not fleshed out by Tolkien to play with and you may expect that we will do everything we can to keep it fun and yet in keeping with the consistent with Tolkien’s original work.”
Craig spoke of game design in LotRO as a marathon and not a sprint. LotRO’s strengths are its conformation to Tolkien’s storyline and the keeping of game play to its lore, as evidenced by many glowing reviews of the same. The game play that is criticized is its PvP which is currently created in instanced areas allowing players to do “Creep” or Monster play, which is playing what are essentially the evil creatures, such as spiders, Wargs and Orcs.
“Some players simply love playing as a Creep.” Said Meghan, “Once they got to level then and started Monster play, they never went back.”
Will Turbine be expanding Monster Play then? Perhaps the battle for Helms Deep will allow for legions of Uruk-Hai and Human Dunlending players? Both Craig and Meghan were mum about that, but in the Marathon of game design that is Lord of the Rings Online, perhaps we shall see that in expansion three or four? RvR fans can hope.
Haven't this interview been published before? I got a very strong dejavu feeling even though I only read the first and last part.
Well what really sucks is that these interviewers only throw softball questions to these mmo developers.
Let's tell it like it is and start peppering these developers with some real challenging questions so the public that is considering purchasing Lotro can know right off the bat what they're getting themselves into.
For example, there is a huge disconnect for new players coming into the game since the release of Moria and now that Lothlorien has expanded the disconnect for newer players is even worse.
Here's what I mean pre-Moria release you could get pick up groups to go into Carn Dum or Urugarth fairly easily to get a Rune of Wing Dominance or the Slime of Helchgam.
Carn Dum and Urugarth are vital for character legendary skill and trait development. The skills gained from acquiring these drops for each different class is like comparing a Jetta to a Ferrari. You need to complete these quests in these areas to get to uber status as far as Legendary Skills go. Characters without these skills are often overlooked during high end game raiding content due to these deficiencies. Another option is to pay 15 Gold for a Rune of Wing Dominance or 20 Gold for a Slime of Helchgam.
The problem is when Moria came out and now the Lothlorien expansion these areas mentioned above are now predominantly abandoned and this is on a server with one of the largest active populations.
It gets worse, this phenomena has now trickled down into Moria when the Lothlorien expansion came out. Same type situation but for radiance armor which comes into play for high end game raiding.
Prior to Lothlorien expansion you could get groups all the time to finish these areas and get your radiance armor. Now everyone is in the Lothlorien areas and the same disconnect will continue to occur here as occurred in Carn Dum and Urugarth.
This will put new players continually at a disadvantage and stunt their overall character development and growth.
Nothing is perfect and the public has a right to know before they spend hard earned money in a global economy that is still in the tank.
The bottom line, you will always have someone in a forum come along and say no not me that's not what happens for me. Their personal experiences do not change the existing facts. Unfortunately I have to repeat this several times because it's true.
People are going to believe what they want. I'm not going to go line item by line item with every tom, dick or harry that disagrees with me. In fact sadly, most people that realize these issues simply walk away from the game.
I want to ensure everyone in the general public knows these issues for what they are. Some player’s experiences are obviously going to be different but for the general populace that plays this game and doesn't post on this website they experience these issues.
These areas unfortunately are pretty much abandoned these days and as mentioned above they are passé. If you want to play the game go for it. I think it's a great game but be forewarned if you want to have the necessary skills to do high end game raiding look somewhere else because you will encounter these issues in this particular game.
Now if anyone disagrees with me and feels otherwise and wants to put together a stable and consistent network to distribute these legendary skill drops to all of the players in the game in every server then the issue will be put to bed. But somehow despite all the rhetoric, I don't see that happening. See how quickly the flamers scurry when the onus is on them to address a real life issue and do some work.
Some say their kin hall stocks these items? Is that for everyone in the game to just drop by and pick up with no strings attached? What server are you from? Please enlighten us, because I know many that would love to stop by and stock up for their characters and alts. Your specific kin on your specific server may offer this I don't doubt this. By boasting statements regarding a kin's bounty of these items are we are to believe that everyone in the game on your server can stop by to pick these up for free?
If not then new people that decide to play this game will face these obstacles.
It is what it is...denying it in some feign attempt of loyalty to the game won't change the facts.
Some will say this is what happens in all games that experience expansions and I don't doubt this for this has also been my experience. But that simple fact does not make it right and I will not allow that to prevent me from letting the public know about what they are getting themselves into.
I don't care if anyone loves the game or doesn't. However, when people make light of my point of view with comments like "they made it easier" or "my kin hall stocks these items". That doesn't speak to the issue it only speaks to your specific experience in the game. Some people have the benefit of kin halls with these items but not everyone. And I have to disagree with the ones that state these legendary skills are option not necessary skills. For example a Minstrel being able to rez in combat is a necessary skill when you get to the higher levels. That's just one for one class folks.
Do not be disillusioned by the haves. There are more have-nots in the game than haves. I have played the game since beta and I can and will speak for myself.
Overall review great game with many good things going for it but don't expect to do any high end game raiding if you are new to Lotro. The best you can hope for is Turbine addresses these bottlenecks in character development for proper closure on these issues.
While the prospects of new things to come are exciting let's ensure that we are informing the new players of the bad as well as the good.
Thats why most of the content now is solo or small group friendly. I am myself taking a break from LOTRO but it was always like this with new players. LOTRO is not somehow magically different from this issue. Its still a game based on level even the the focus is on the story line and questing system, not the end game raiding, which is of course available as well.
Your points make sense, but they are not any different in LOTRO as they are in any other MMORPG. There has to be a constant non-stop stream of new players in order to find groups whenever you want and whenever someone else new is looking for one. LOTRO including betas is now over 2 years old. Its ok to expect some areas to be abandoned. After all you can join some active guild, which probably won't be much success until new expansion, that is the best time when game comes to live again and people are not just in high level areas but in every zone, since expansion time is usually when new players join the game the most.
There is enough solo content to level from 1 to 60, you may not have raid level equipment, but you will still be fine. Everyone has access to legendary items, it improves every class abilities. And when you are around 50 you can join some guild and do a few runs with kinmates to get yourself those class items. While your concern makes sense is not really that big to change opinion about the whole adventure that game offers.
Interview text has quite a few spelling errors. Use spelling checker next time :).
Thank you for sharing your points of view and for being civil. I appreciate the spell checker tip, I'm fairly certain it's still has grammatical errors, but I did go back and do a spell check on my portion of the post.
On a seperate note, I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the game dynamics you mentioned above that are prevalent in all MMO's.
I don't think I said that only Lotro has these issues, if I did or if I implied this then it was totally unintentional. Lotro is not an isolated case you'll find no argument in me disputing this point.
I never make the following case in my posting however, some may feel it is not that big a concern to change opinion about the whole adventure the game has to offer. This is very subjective and will vary from individual to individual. Some folks want to experience the game in it's entirety and all it has to offer.
I want to remain consistent and stay on message...I want to ensure folks out there know the good and bad so they know what they are getting themselves into.
I read through your post thoroughly I found it to be very insightful and your inputs are nicely laid out.
Great post!
Heh, maybe because game devs tend to always say the same sort of stuff? XD
Heh, maybe because game devs tend to always say the same sort of stuff? XD
Actually this article have been published before:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/feature/3099
compare to the new one: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/feature/3109/page/1
Funny thing is that talamanthon posted the same thing back then :p
...and my response would be the same - find a good Kinship
The issue of "critical" old content exists in pretty much every MMO as it ages, it always gets harder to pull groups/raids together for dated but still needed content. The answer is simply in social networking. There are generally *lots* of Kinships, some of which may just be hitting that content for the first time, others of which will happily go back and run the old raids to help out.
Also, the universe isn't static - often as time passes you will find that older "key" drops or things of this nature will be made available in new places or made easier. LotRO is no different. I've been playing some alts with friends we recently dragged into the game and couldn't help but notice that there are places in the world already where mobs have been lowered from "elite" to "signatures" making content much easier for soloists/small groups. I am sure that Turbine will continue to address this issue slowly as the game moves forward.
Actually this article have been published before:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/feature/3099
compare to the new one: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/45/feature/3109/page/1
Funny thing is that talamanthon posted the same thing back then :p
Funny thing is it's still like that in the game too the people have a right to know then and now.
Finding a good kinship as we all know is easier said than done, most pull you in and forget about you in 3 weeks.
If Ericbelser can list a good kinship that he has been on personally in every server that he knows for a fact that will do Carn Dum and Urugarth to this day for all the new people that join those kinships then we're good...otherwise he's just blowing smoke.
That's the problem with generalizations Ericbelser unless you can back it up with the hard data you're just full of it.
In the meanwhile in the real world the fact remains the same. And to stay on message...the public has a right to know about the good as well as the bad.
When it changes I'm pretty sure we'll be notified but right now...this is how it is in Lotro.
Some people want to experience the game in its entirety and others like to join pick up groups and not be beholden to a kinship. It's all very subjective the bottom line is as of right now this is the current status of said topic.
Nah, its not your post has errors, mate. Very first post the interview itself has some. Was quite unexpected when I saw them. The poster was in a hurry or something :). You don't see that very often when you read official post of the interview in forums from "big dawgs" =D.
Oh ok I hear ya thanks Reanor :)
Talamnthon I just read the dev chat from yesterday and this question was in it:
[17:58] <~DelmarWynn> deusdictum: Is anything going to be done about the lvl 50 class quests? Now that they're not at the level cap, CD and Uru are harder to find groups for.
The dev answer was:
[17:58] <@Orion> YES! These are in dire, dire need of an overhaul. I will be tackling them on at some point in the future. No guarantees as to when these might get changed, but they need to be changed; very badly, very very badly.
See the LotrO devs do lissten :)
Papdams glad you just read the dev chat and looks like there's no ETA so please keep us posted as to when that gets changed.
In the meanwhile I'm going to assume until an official patch announcement comes out that this is still the same issue as I originally discussed.
Hasta
Amazing way to take a serious discussion into personal attacks there, got something to hide?. Unless you list every kinship on every server that has "sucked you in and abandoned you in 3 weeks" then you are full of BS generalizations and everyone should ignore you too right? Got any kind of empirical data to back this one up either, "Now everyone is in the Lothlorien areas" is that just more generalization based solely on your experience too? (Since you know, I see the 21st hall crammed with people nearly 24/7 staging PUG radiance raids and such)
I play on Gladden, there are a crapload of KINs recruiting and both of the ones I have been in were happy to stage any raids needed to gear up new players. In one of them, the older members even just gave away any spare items for the class quests that they had to newer members who needed them. Even for a pure soloist, people are still farming those raids and selling the items. It's not cheap, but it can be done (and for far less gold than the prices you quoted) if you absolutely have to have them and can't wait or get the help.
I see people forming pickup groups for old story raids all the time when I am in those zones. Heck I saw someone recruiting for a Helegrod PUG raid a few days ago, no idea if it went off though. Maybe it takes you a while to get it all sorted out, but it is far from impossible especially if you are actually willing to step up and lead those PUGs. Of course, if you come across as much like a bitter whiner in game as you do here, I can see why you specifically might have more problems with this than most.
I'll say it again, because you seem to have a problem grasping the reality here: every MMORPG out there has problems with older "gated" content as the game moves on and level caps are raised. This has been true since even the earliest days of EQ, when the original two dragon raids got level capped and became harder to do because everyone had moved on. It is NOT unique to LotRO and in fact there are many aspects of the LotRO system which both encourage people to help with older content and make it easier. Turbine is in fact *more* responsive to this issue than many companies have been, so trying to slam them on it is a little pathetic.
Likewise, the issue of "bad" guilds or problems finding a good one is hardly unique to any one game. My experience with the LotRO community has been that it is better than most out there in terms of being willing to help anyone reasonable.