For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

Originally posted by Zookz1

I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

Originally posted by Zookz1

I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

You know, I have only heard ANet play their game, I have not heard any other developers say that they love playing their own game.

Originally posted by nomss

Originally posted by Zookz1

I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

You know, I have only heard ANet play their game, I have not heard any other developers say that they love playing their own game.

That's not true however. Most developers play their game, for example Blizzard developers say it sometimes on the forums. Most Blizzard employees play WoW in fact, from the community representatives to the developers themselves. It's the same on many other MMOs. 

this isnt has hard as it sound!first you go on twitch then you start a stream(i am speaking to dev here NOT PLAYER)THEN YOU STREAM AT 1080I(since this is the most forgiving bandwith wise).then you make everybody know you are streaming say once a week!then who ever is streaming at ff14 dev end make sure they view what is being said in chat there!

and ask for positive feed back (concrete appliable)cause some like to ramble on.

it take just an hour or two a week to actually ber hit in the face with what the game issue are when you stream !it would take month or even years via the normal way!

THEN YOU FIX THE VARIOUS ISSUE!

its like me i drive big 18 wheeler!i come to mechanic and say hey truck is overeating,i suggest possible issue!he change every part i mention without making sure they are indead the issue!

you know what ? my truck still overheat!and they still havent found the problem!we begin to suspect it is an incompatibility with sensor or wire  bug somewhere !so it probably costed them 50 000 for something that if they had tested first they would have found it is a 20 $ problem!so make the proper diagnostic first!

Originally posted by Neverdyne

 

That's not true however. Most developers play their game, for example Blizzard developers say it sometimes on the forums. Most Blizzard employees play WoW in fact, from the community representatives to the developers themselves. It's the same on many other MMOs. 

No. Most developers say they play their game. It's no different than buying a new chevy. The salesman will tell you he himself drives a chevy even if it's a ford he's got parked around back.

* * *

How fast is "fast"? How much slower do you think it should be OP? Half the speed? 10%? It's not anything stupid like XI's bookburns is it?

Also, for those of us without accounts.. Is it displaying results? Can you post them here?

Originally posted by Ozreth

Originally posted by Zookz1

 

Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

Yeah, really, Abyssea's leveling/book-burns should have taught them all they need to know about what XI's community wants.

At first, at very first, it feels awesome. The XP per hour is insane, and you enjoy a day or two of it (at least I did) and then you realize you have everything merited. I got 80 merits in one full day leveling on Bluffalo.

There are plenty of people that like Party Grinding and SE already had a hook in most of them, they should have stuck with what they knew. I mean Guildleves sound a bit like Fields of Valor, and both are fine so that in situations where parties aren't available, or you just want to solo, you're not helpless, but party xp game...yesplease.

Originally posted by Deathofsage

Originally posted by Ozreth

Originally posted by Zookz1

 

Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

Yeah, really, Abyssea's leveling/book-burns should have taught them all they need to know about what XI's community wants.

At first, at very first, it feels awesome. The XP per hour is insane, and you enjoy a day or two of it (at least I did) and then you realize you have everything merited. I got 80 merits in one full day leveling on Bluffalo.

There are plenty of people that like Party Grinding and SE already had a hook in most of them, they should have stuck with what they knew. I mean Guildleves sound a bit like Fields of Valor, and both are fine so that in situations where parties aren't available, or you just want to solo, you're not helpless, but party xp game...yesplease.

I don't totally disagree with you, but I will never again play a game where I have to look for a party or attempt to put one together for an entire play session (several hours) and have it end with me never getting anything accomplished. In XI and XIV, I have actually spent a week without a PT leaving me to solo for a miserable amount of XP.

FFXI needed Abyssea because it's extremely top heavy after being around for a decade. FFXIV is already extremely top heavy a year after release. How are they going to adopt a slower and steadier approach to progression at this point? It would ruin the game for newer players.

FFXIV needs a more modern approach than what they currently have. The franchise as a whole, including XI, place emphasis on story. It seems silly that the main method of progression is to sit in one spot and grind monsters from 30-50. Shouldn't we be discovering things about the world and the inhabitants? Shouldn't I learn about the native creatures and the lands? The main storyline is laughably short and excessively boring in terms of gameplay. I know it's an extremely unpopular opinon amongst FFXI/XIV players, but I want to see a more quest driven (read: story driven) approach to progression, but the mere mention of having quested progressions sends the community into a seething rage.

Maybe people want an "oldschool" experience with XIV, but I have serious doubts as to whether that is something SE is willing to deliver. They already had/have that game in XI.

Originally posted by Zookz1

Originally posted by Deathofsage

Originally posted by Ozreth

Originally posted by Zookz1

 

Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

 

I don't totally disagree with you, but I will never again play a game where I have to look for a party or attempt to put one together for an entire play session (several hours) and have it end with me never getting anything accomplished. In XI and XIV, I have actually spent a week without a PT leaving me to solo for a miserable amount of XP.

Been there, done that. Talking about XI, and not quite a week, but yeah. I've spent an hour forming a party only to have it fall apart or another party come and camp on us right after we started.

FFXI needed Abyssea because it's extremely top heavy after being around for a decade. FFXIV is already extremely top heavy a year after release. How are they going to adopt a slower and steadier approach to progression at this point? It would ruin the game for newer players.

XI did quite a bit with Level-sync, fields of valor (pre-bookburn), and campaign (campaign kicked in around 65). When ToAU colibri were full, there were a few people that went and merited at WoG's baby colibri, sinking with people appropriately geared for the level and somebody usually dualboxing a PL.

If anything, all XI needed was making it so you could do more than one page an hour (but not, lol, in a freaking alliance) and more camps like baby colibri.. mobs that died fast and were fun to kill.

FFXIV needs a more modern approach than what they currently have. The franchise as a whole, including XI, place emphasis on story. It seems silly that the main method of progression is to sit in one spot and grind monsters from 30-50. Shouldn't we be discovering things about the world and the inhabitants? Shouldn't I learn about the native creatures and the lands? The main storyline is laughably short and excessively boring in terms of gameplay. I know it's an extremely unpopular opinon amongst FFXI/XIV players, but I want to see a more quest driven (read: story driven) approach to progression, but the mere mention of having quested progressions sends the community into a seething rage.

I haven't played XIV yet (._.) but XI wasn't quite 30-50, not before bookburns. Most camps lasted about 4-5 levels so it did have you moving around quite a bit, or usually disbanding and reforming with a new group.

But I do definitely understand that point. I like party grinders, but I like it to be an adventure.

Maybe people want an "oldschool" experience with XIV, but I have serious doubts as to whether that is something SE is willing to deliver. They already had/have that game in XI.

Agreed. It's too bad too, because a lot of old school players, as we all know, would latch on to such an mmo.

I have no issues with taking my time getting to 50. I started just after Christmas and my highest job atm is 36 mrd.

Wow, honestly this whole "we're leveling too fast" debate is actually making me want to play the game. I think people look at leveling too much as content, but that's me. I'd much prefer leveling to be either irrelevant or quick, and instead for the game itself to be filled with reasons to team up. Not because you HAVE to, but because you really want to.

Leveling, for me, is just a matter of getting to the recommend level to be useful to people with my abilities and gear, I'd rather get that out of the way quickly so that I can get to the part where it's fun. If that's the direction FF14 is headed, I might have to take another look at this.

Repeat after me: FFXIV is not intended to be a hardcore game. They're targeting the more casual playbase that they missed with FFXI.

Besides, leveling may be fast, but you don't have just one to level, you have over 15. Even if you max all of the combat classes quickly, that's not going to happen with the non-combat classes.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

Repeat after me: FFXIV is not intended to be a hardcore game. They're targeting the more casual playbase that they missed with FFXI.

 

Besides, leveling may be fast, but you don't have just one to level, you have over 15. Even if you max all of the combat classes quickly, that's not going to happen with the non-combat classes.

I really wish people would stop spreading this.

This is twisting the words of people like Tanaka (the former director) who said he wanted everything to be accessible to all people, and the current directer who says that he wants content for all play types, into somehow meaning that the game is Casual only.

The case could have been possibly made when Tanaka was still in charge, but Yoshida has made it very clear that this game will not be targetting Casual players only and is very much trying to recapture the XI playerbase as well.

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by dreamscaper

Repeat after me: FFXIV is not intended to be a hardcore game. They're targeting the more casual playbase that they missed with FFXI.

 

Besides, leveling may be fast, but you don't have just one to level, you have over 15. Even if you max all of the combat classes quickly, that's not going to happen with the non-combat classes.

I really wish people would stop spreading this.

 

This is twisting the words of people like Tanaka (the former director) who said he wanted everything to be accessible to all people, and the current directer who says that he wants content for all play types, into somehow meaning that the game is Casual only.

 

The case could have been possibly made when Tanaka was still in charge, but Yoshida has made it very clear that this game will not be targetting Casual players only and is very much trying to recapture the XI playerbase as well.

There is a lot of difficulty involved, when it comes to trying to cater to both sides of the casual/hardcore "fence."  In fact, I've never seen it done, effectively, and while it's apparent how they're attempting to accomplish that, FFXIV is no exception.

 I enjoy FFXIV, for the most part, but at this point it lacks most of the "hardcore" elements, or at least what I considered "hardcore" about FFXI.  In FFXI, the game was more about group combat experiences.   Your character developed, over relatively long periods of time, and when you did get to endgame experiences, although they were great, you recognized that they were secondary to the experiences you had, while getting there.  Character progression and development is key in any rpg.  FFXI did it mainly with challenging group combat experiences, along with an excellent storyline and job system.  In FFXIV, there's very little need for this group-experienced progression, other than through endgame raids, and that's usually just gear hunting, not real character progression.  Endgame gear raids are fine, and eventually everyone gets to endgame, but I believe they do so with less satisfaction than they did in FFXI, because there's relatively little impedence to getting there.   That's the casual appeal they tried to impart for FFXIV if you ask me. There are a lot of people that want instant gratification.  You know, those people that somehow twisted the description of  satisfying group combat leveling into the now-dirty-word, "grind."  Developers want to "capture" that audience, simply because that demographic has been relatively absent to the MMORPG world, up until about the mid 2000s.  The problem is that they alienate another large portion of their base, when they do that.  A player base that is typically much more loyal and appreciative.  Not to mention, it can be damaging to the community, another element of FFXIV that doesn't live up to its predecessor.

I don't want to bag it too much, because I think FFXIV has a lot to offer, and it seems to continually make leaps and bounds in getting better.  The whole attempt to get both "casual" and "hardcore" players was/is the cause for it's less-than-receptive state.   FFXIV does better than many, when it comes to trying to capture both player types, but I honestly don't recognize too much effort to recapture the "hardcore" FFXI player base, and in my opinion, that's because they tried too hard to lure casual players, through relatively-easy leveling and fast "progression."  I think the player, ironically, gets robbed of something, when things are handed to them so easily.

Originally posted by Ozreth

For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

 

I don't think they can slow the leveling as the game is now , Most gamers level thru quests & FFXIV is in short supply of quests , you can do the same leves over & over which becomes boring , if they wanted to slow progression by say 50% they would need to add at least 300+ new quests  Not leves  but real quests . as it is now I have a lvl 20 caster &  a few 10+ crafters & I am bored allready , this is where games like WOW excel even in vanilla wow had just over 700 unique quests between lvl 1 -20 , FFXIV has maybe 100 .

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Wow, honestly this whole "we're leveling too fast" debate is actually making me want to play the game. I think people look at leveling too much as content, but that's me. I'd much prefer leveling to be either irrelevant or quick, and instead for the game itself to be filled with reasons to team up. Not because you HAVE to, but because you really want to.

Leveling, for me, is just a matter of getting to the recommend level to be useful to people with my abilities and gear, I'd rather get that out of the way quickly so that I can get to the part where it's fun. If that's the direction FF14 is headed, I might have to take another look at this.

I seem to be your mirror half , while you enjoy the destination I enjoy the journey , I would rather level 10 character to 50 then spend month's sitting at lvl50  raiding dungeons  only to have an expansion come out a month later & make all that work grinding the best gear which is now just vendor trash ..

Originally posted by Lukain

Originally posted by Ozreth

For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

 

I don't think they can slow the leveling as the game is now , Most gamers level thru quests & FFXIV is in short supply of quests , you can do the same leves over & over which becomes boring , if they wanted to slow progression by say 50% they would need to add at least 300+ new quests  Not leves  but real quests . as it is now I have a lvl 20 caster &  a few 10+ crafters & I am bored allready , this is where games like WOW excel even in vanilla wow had just over 700 unique quests between lvl 1 -20 , FFXIV has maybe 100 .

 

 

 

 

 

Most gamers that are used to the WoW questing style of play are used to leveling through quests (I realize other games do this, but WoW is the most prevalent example).  In some ways, I think the OP is talking about taking away some of the solo-ability of leveling.  Engaging group combat that requires time in effort and social interaction, throughout progreesion through levels; I think that's what a lot of old FFXI players want.  FFXI didn't have near as many quests as WoW, but a lot of the quests it did have were meaningful to the story, or were required to progress your character.  Quests were not necessarily there to provide the experience points one needed to advance in level.  To me, this style enhanced the "journey," as you called it in another post.  Challenging group combat and community interaction were sort of the "meat and potatoes" of the game, and quests/storyline, while still challenging, were sort of the "dessert." 

Like you, I am much more about the journey than the conclusion.  I think that's just the way a good rpg should be.  Tell me a story that I'm a part of it, and let me immerse myself.   I suppose I could be a bit presumptuous, but I think your boredom, which you indicated would possibly be taken away with more quests, would be better quelled with some of that engaging group combat that takes some time.  The problem is that FFXIV isn't really set up either way, at this point, and there are a lot of players like yourself, bored, and a lot of other players that are sitting around with capped characters, which didn't take much effort to get, waiting for the next content patch that may add another couple days of new things to do.

I enjoy a lot of the things in the game, but this is the main aspect that I hope they change, as well.

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Wow, honestly this whole "we're leveling too fast" debate is actually making me want to play the game. I think people look at leveling too much as content, but that's me. I'd much prefer leveling to be either irrelevant or quick, and instead for the game itself to be filled with reasons to team up. Not because you HAVE to, but because you really want to.

Leveling, for me, is just a matter of getting to the recommend level to be useful to people with my abilities and gear, I'd rather get that out of the way quickly so that I can get to the part where it's fun. If that's the direction FF14 is headed, I might have to take another look at this.

This has always been my thoughts. I never particularly liked xp parties except when I lvled my rng in a static with my LS and that was because they were cool people, we did amazing damage, and it was fun hanging out. I feel bad for the people that just lvled in ffxi and that was their main source of content (you missed out on so much). For me xping is just a means of getting to where I want to be and being powerful enough to do the content I like. That was one of the reasons why CoP was my favorite expansion though I could take breaks from my xp partying and farming to actually do things other than lvling not on my main job.

I just feel really bad for the folks that looked at xp as a form of content it's just sad, there was so much more to ffxi and I can't wait til there is tons of stuff to do in FFXIV so I can finally make the switch. A short lvling curve will be a bonus for me I want to do fun things.

I like the game but the leveling system is SO SO SO SO SO boring. Grind or Guildleve! I have a 6 months sub, and I'm hoping that by 2.0 the game has more to offer to level up.