I seriously hope right from the start Square-Enix handles this issue the same way they have been for awhile now in FFXI to keep this as little of a problem as then can. I think the way they handled it in FFXI was by far the best I have seen any other MMO battle this problem and would love to keep the gold farmers hurting badly in this game.

SE are saying all the right things so lets hope so.

the best thing they can do imo is to stop characters selling items to npc's, so long as fresh money isn't flooded into a game the system should balance out, gold sellers or not.

The way to stop gold sellers is NOT ALLOW money transfers between players. It's that simple. That would be the end of RMT.

Originally posted by Visc

The way to stop gold sellers is NOT ALLOW money transfers between players. It's that simple. That would be the end of RMT.

 

Nope the only true way to stop it is no game currency but game currency is needed in a game.

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

Originally posted by Visc

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

Here's an easy replacement on money trading:

Player X puts 1 item on AH for 10kk

Bot Y buys that item

Player X got the money he bought.

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by Visc

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

 

Here's an easy replacement on money trading:

Player X puts 1 item on AH for 10kk

Bot Y buys that item

Player X got the money he bought.

That's easy to fix.... end the auction house system and while your at it the mail system for things other than text based messsages. Once again it doesn't take much to figure it out. Auction house systems are not required and encourage RMT. NPC's can sell everything and what they don't you need to craft. The game company wins because players will have to play the game, not just level. Gather, craft and see/ use the world which the devs designed.
 

And how can people sell stuff to earn money? crafting gear and boss drops,ecc

Originally posted by Visc

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by Visc

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

 

Here's an easy replacement on money trading:

Player X puts 1 item on AH for 10kk

Bot Y buys that item

Player X got the money he bought.

That's easy to fix.... end the auction house system and while your at it the mail system for things other than text based messsages. Once again it doesn't take much to figure it out. Auction house systems are not required and encourage RMT. NPC's can sell everything and what they don't you need to craft. The game company wins because players will have to play the game, not just level. Gather, craft and see/ use the world which the devs designed.
 

Simply put your solution is to remove all player influence from economy. You can only get money from the non-player characters and activieties and you can only spend money on non-player characters and activities. Player driven economy is one of the KEY things MMO players DEMAND in mmorpgs, one even that many playerw feel games like WoW don't accomodate enough.

Removing player driven economics is a garaunteed way to fail. The only possible solution is aggressive tracking and enforcement, video games are nothing but number crunching. It's entirely possible to set up a system to red-flag large money and item transfer and then invisably audit and moniter those players until there give themselves away as RMTers and then ban them. Both of them.

The problem of course is you have to staff a team to investigate red flags and then track player until they give themselves away beyond a doubt that they are trading against the TOS. The thing is that if a game does this up front, they quickly establish that RMT is too high-risk and the market evaporates, because only that will truly combat RMT.

Originally posted by Visc

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by Visc

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

 

Here's an easy replacement on money trading:

Player X puts 1 item on AH for 10kk

Bot Y buys that item

Player X got the money he bought.

That's easy to fix.... end the auction house system and while your at it the mail system for things other than text based messsages. Once again it doesn't take much to figure it out. Auction house systems are not required and encourage RMT. NPC's can sell everything and what they don't you need to craft. The game company wins because players will have to play the game, not just level. Gather, craft and see/ use the world which the devs designed.
 

Sorry to say this but I think this is the worst idea I’ve ever heard about battling bots, your just might as well kill the game right now

The idea that you can prevent gold selling by inhibiting player trading is no good.  A player economy is an important part of any good mmo imo, and you would destroy that.  And not just player selling in general, you would destroy the crafting sphere as well since no one could sell crafted gear either.  The only crafting would be stuff made for oneself.

 Well if SE is as aggressive as they have been for years now with the gil sellers on FFXI then it wont be a big problem. 

If I wanted it to be an NPC based economy then why play XIV when I can play XIII. Player economy is a major part of a game and taking it out is asking for a failure.

Originally posted by NotNiceDino

Originally posted by Visc

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by Visc

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

 

Here's an easy replacement on money trading:

Player X puts 1 item on AH for 10kk

Bot Y buys that item

Player X got the money he bought.

That's easy to fix.... end the auction house system and while your at it the mail system for things other than text based messsages. Once again it doesn't take much to figure it out. Auction house systems are not required and encourage RMT. NPC's can sell everything and what they don't you need to craft. The game company wins because players will have to play the game, not just level. Gather, craft and see/ use the world which the devs designed.
 

 

Simply put your solution is to remove all player influence from economy. You can only get money from the non-player characters and activieties and you can only spend money on non-player characters and activities. Player driven economy is one of the KEY things MMO players DEMAND in mmorpgs, one even that many playerw feel games like WoW don't accomodate enough.

Removing player driven economics is a garaunteed way to fail. The only possible solution is aggressive tracking and enforcement, video games are nothing but number crunching. It's entirely possible to set up a system to red-flag large money and item transfer and then invisably audit and moniter those players until there give themselves away as RMTers and then ban them. Both of them.

The problem of course is you have to staff a team to investigate red flags and then track player until they give themselves away beyond a doubt that they are trading against the TOS. The thing is that if a game does this up front, they quickly establish that RMT is too high-risk and the market evaporates, because only that will truly combat RMT.

I thought what players DEMANDED was a game they kept their attention and was fun to play. The fact remains that player driven econmies are not needed to have a fun and enjoyable MMO experience. If the npc's have fixed prices that are realistic then all you have to do is farm.
 

FFXI tried (among many things) to limit the amount of money a player could transfer. This was easily worked around with the RMT having multiple character transfers.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by Visc

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by Visc

If an RMT can't sell his/her ingame cash to one of the companies that buys/sells the cash. And that company can't have a player on each server that transfers the ingame cash for real cash to the players too lazy to farm then that DOES end all RMT in that game. Money in the game can still exist and be used for what is needed. It is just that simple.

 

Here's an easy replacement on money trading:

Player X puts 1 item on AH for 10kk

Bot Y buys that item

Player X got the money he bought.

That's easy to fix.... end the auction house system and while your at it the mail system for things other than text based messsages. Once again it doesn't take much to figure it out. Auction house systems are not required and encourage RMT. NPC's can sell everything and what they don't you need to craft. The game company wins because players will have to play the game, not just level. Gather, craft and see/ use the world which the devs designed.
 

Sorry to say this but I think this is the worst idea I’ve ever heard about battling bots, your just might as well kill the game right now

 

Thanks for the opinion..............

If you take away the ability for a player to trade items and money to another will hurt the game.  I myself wouldn't play a game like that if the economy was based on the NPCs instead of players.  You would have to craft your own gear to get the good stuff and to get the good stuff you will have to have a high lvl craft.  In order to get a high lvl craft you have to spend money to skill up that craft and how will you manage that if you can't trade goods with others?  Farming your own money and items is the only option but if you compare it to FFXI that would take alot of freaking time to get your craft high enough.  You won't have time to enjoy the game because you spend all your time gathering trying to get good gear which defeats the purpose of playing the game, unless you like crafting instead of exploring.

Like NotNiceDino said its possible to set up a system to track and flag suspicious money trading activity.  SE would have to employ some people to monitor and that will cost them money.  I wouldn't mind paying a extra buck or two a month so those employees can get paid to track RMT as long there is a guarantee that is what the extra money is going to.  You can't leave it to a program to monitor RMT because in some large LS's they will have a bank in which drops sold from raids will go a leader's mule to hold then distribute as needed.  That itself would look like RMT and a honest player would get banned for nothing then he would spend days trying justify his actions to get unbanned.

It seems like they have no intention of having an Auction house in the same sense they did in FF11. I think they can pull it off though.

From what I have been reading they will have a "Market:" and "Stands" Stands will be bazaar like places that I think players will be able to set up and walk away, leaving the stand to make money for them. Apparently Stands are to be used to sell rare items and such. The benefit to this system over an auction house is that continuous effort by RMT to controll/raise/lower prices is removed, as people can not only choose not to purchase from known RMT but also purchase from different stands. It definitely increases the work an RMT would have to go thorugh to buy up the stock and then sell it at their price at their stand. I have no problem with this.

SE is not taking away the economy but adding depth to it. Now everything will be sold from person to person. Prices will fluctuate even more and controlling supply and demand will become a lot more difficult for people who like to play the market or RMT. People will begin to reuse the same Stands for theior items and people will become reknown for quality,quantity, price and availability. The possibilities of the Stand system being forced over the old Auction system are endless.

Markets will be NPC's that will buy your none rare items and sell quite a bit of similar non rares. Maybe you will also have a business skill, and as you sell more and buy more ; you get more money for the items you sell and are able to buy more items... similar to the Bazaar in FF12.

I think SE is going to astound us.

Originally posted by swalker23

If you take away the ability for a player to trade items and money to another will hurt the game.  I myself wouldn't play a game like that if the economy was based on the NPCs instead of players.  You would have to craft your own gear to get the good stuff and to get the good stuff you will have to have a high lvl craft.  In order to get a high lvl craft you have to spend money to skill up that craft and how will you manage that if you can't trade goods with others?  Farming your own money and items is the only option but if you compare it to FFXI that would take alot of freaking time to get your craft high enough.  You won't have time to enjoy the game because you spend all your time gathering trying to get good gear which defeats the purpose of playing the game, unless you like crafting instead of exploring.

 

Like NotNiceDino said its possible to set up a system to track and flag suspicious money trading activity.  SE would have to employ some people to monitor and that will cost them money.  I wouldn't mind paying a extra buck or two a month so those employees can get paid to track RMT as long there is a guarantee that is what the extra money is going to.  You can't leave it to a program to monitor RMT because in some large LS's they will have a bank in which drops sold from raids will go a leader's mule to hold then distribute as needed.  That itself would look like RMT and a honest player would get banned for nothing then he would spend days trying justify his actions to get unbanned.

It's a good point that punishing the players by restricting trade would hurt the social aspect of a MMO. The game really depends on the live GMs to investigate, and the players to act as the first line of defense. I wrote a short write-up about this a few days ago. Here is a short excerpt from the post.

"When you look at all the ways to enforce the rules, you see it all boils down to a simple relationship. Players need to be able to trust their voice gets heard by the GM's. The same can be said that GM's need this feedback, or else it becomes a numbers game, which would put them at a disadvantage."

Read the rest of the article on Combating the RMT: Trends

Originally posted by Bellarion

It seems like they have no intention of having an Auction house in the same sense they did in FF11. I think they can pull it off though.

From what I have been reading they will have a "Market:" and "Stands" Stands will be bazaar like places that I think players will be able to set up and walk away, leaving the stand to make money for them. Apparently Stands are to be used to sell rare items and such. The benefit to this system over an auction house is that continuous effort by RMT to controll/raise/lower prices is removed, as people can not only choose not to purchase from known RMT but also purchase from different stands. It definitely increases the work an RMT would have to go thorugh to buy up the stock and then sell it at their price at their stand. I have no problem with this.

SE is not taking away the economy but adding depth to it. Now everything will be sold from person to person. Prices will fluctuate even more and controlling supply and demand will become a lot more difficult for people who like to play the market or RMT. People will begin to reuse the same Stands for theior items and people will become reknown for quality,quantity, price and availability. The possibilities of the Stand system being forced over the old Auction system are endless.

Markets will be NPC's that will buy your none rare items and sell quite a bit of similar non rares. Maybe you will also have a business skill, and as you sell more and buy more ; you get more money for the items you sell and are able to buy more items... similar to the Bazaar in FF12.

 

I think SE is going to astound us.

I personally don't like the idea of a marketplace for the simple fact if I'm looking for a certain item I don't want to go through 10-20 stands trying to find it and then going through another 10-20 stands trying to find it cheaper.  Even though I don't like the idea I would love to try it out, hell it might even be better than the auction house.  I'm sure SE know what they are doing with the market idea.  One thing you don't have to worry about with the market stand is bidding the wrong price on a item.  Been a few times I added an extra 0 to a item I bidded on paying more than what its worth.   We've all seen someone else doing that on the ah, paying 10,000 gil on a 1,000 gil item and it.

Originally posted by swalker23 

I personally don't like the idea of a marketplace for the simple fact if I'm looking for a certain item I don't want to go through 10-20 stands trying to find it and then going through another 10-20 stands trying to find it cheaper.  Even though I don't like the idea I would love to try it out, hell it might even be better than the auction house.  

I'm going to have to agree with this sentiment.  Having the option of going to a marketplace is nice.  Parts of FFXI cities became de-facto marketplaces due to the many mule bazaars that would get parked in high traffic areas.  Generally bazaars sold high volume items such as food, raw materials, and/or ammunition.  It was rare to find finished goods.  It's a pain for someone to sift through 20 different 'stalls' to find that iron longsword they want.  It's much easier to sell low volume items like that on an auction house.

I'm hoping they stick with a system like the one they have now.  Limited AH access (only seven items at a time) and a marketplace to sell those high volume items.

Personally I look forward to the new system. I am sure SE has done their homework, I doubt a manned desk or team could successfully and effeciently cover all the RMT and their continual rerolls. I think that SE is doing what they know to be the best way to deal with RMT, making the game less RTM-friendly at the development stage.

I do not doubt that RMT are going to find FF14 gives them a whole lot of hurt.

I bet fishing will require certain actions that botting will not allow for and have restrictions that hamper bots.

I bet the manner that bosses are fought,that items are dropped and traded etc. will also be tweaked and changed from the get-go to be anti-RMT, while still giving players more then enough options and abilities within the game.

And yes the economy will be different, but we must all try and understand that we continue to ask for innovation, and then balk at the first thing we hear about a game having truly different gameplay features.