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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Forum » General Discussion » Videos showing current client/server sync issues (skill delay)

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106 posts found
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5119

 
OP  10/07/13 8:01:17 AM#81
Originally posted by Kajidourden

Problem?  Definitely

Easily compensated for? Definitely

Will they/do they plan to do anything about it? Who knows

Bottom line: Gotta deal with it until then, or play another game.

 Also, these forums are the last place anyone from SE is going to look....just saying.  So really, the thread is pointless bickering.  Why not put it on the official forums, or add to a thread already going?  This place?  Seriously?

MMORPG.com is the largest 3rd party MMO forum site.

Every community manager worth their salt reads mmorpg.com forums for their respective games. There are devs for many game companies lurking here as well.

The official forums already have a thread with plenty of relevant info - we didn't have a thread here and yet at the same time posts are popping up where people were discussing lag and skill delay and usual things were blamed (ISP, PC, lack of player skill)

So yes this place.

Seriously.

 

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5119

 
OP  10/07/13 8:07:41 AM#82
Originally posted by Alders

You missed the best 2 vids.  This issue was prevalent in 1.0 and still continues.        

 

I've never seen that video but that shows it perfectly.

Also this is very noticeable when you are riding a mount next to another player on their mount - you can see them *stutter* they are not running smoothly, and on their PC you appear to stutter and they are running smoothly.

 

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3360

10/07/13 10:12:35 AM#83

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/07/13 10:23:12 AM#84
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5119

 
OP  10/07/13 8:46:02 PM#85
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

You are still not willing to accept a very simple truth - there should be no additional 300ms delay introduced by SE's netcode period.

We are being penalized here, why do we have to relearn the timing to compensate for poor netcode that shouldnt be there to begin with? WoW doesn't have this, Rift doesn't have this, Diablo 3, GW2, NWN, TSW... I don't know of another game that adds such a huge amount of latency into the mix.

the gameplay on the client and server should be in sync as much as possible and only subject to ISP latency, not ISP latency + additional 300ms server check BS.

 

 

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3360

10/07/13 8:59:26 PM#86


Originally posted by Alamareth
Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

No.

Either you are saying the problem is S/E (for whatever reason), or the problem is the player (for whatever reason - this includes those people who say there is no problem).

  Kajidourden

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 296

10/07/13 11:17:16 PM#87
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Kajidourden

Problem?  Definitely

Easily compensated for? Definitely

Will they/do they plan to do anything about it? Who knows

Bottom line: Gotta deal with it until then, or play another game.

 Also, these forums are the last place anyone from SE is going to look....just saying.  So really, the thread is pointless bickering.  Why not put it on the official forums, or add to a thread already going?  This place?  Seriously?

MMORPG.com is the largest 3rd party MMO forum site.

Every community manager worth their salt reads mmorpg.com forums for their respective games. There are devs for many game companies lurking here as well.

The official forums already have a thread with plenty of relevant info - we didn't have a thread here and yet at the same time posts are popping up where people were discussing lag and skill delay and usual things were blamed (ISP, PC, lack of player skill)

So yes this place.

Seriously.

 

So a thread in a third party website when there's already an ongoing and dev responded to thread on the official forums is somehow going to.....do what exactly?  Good luck with that.  Carry on the bickering back and forth, i'm sure it will solve all your problems.

Edit: I don't mean to be a negative nancy, I know you're trying to do something about it rather than being reactive...just seems farfetched to me, especially when these forums are tangent happy (as we've seen).  

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/08/13 6:34:29 AM#88
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

You are still not willing to accept a very simple truth - there should be no additional 300ms delay introduced by SE's netcode period.

We are being penalized here, why do we have to relearn the timing to compensate for poor netcode that shouldnt be there to begin with? WoW doesn't have this, Rift doesn't have this, Diablo 3, GW2, NWN, TSW... I don't know of another game that adds such a huge amount of latency into the mix.

the gameplay on the client and server should be in sync as much as possible and only subject to ISP latency, not ISP latency + additional 300ms server check BS.

There's a difference between LATENCY and server timing.  Like I've said before, latency is going to be felt consistently - this position check won't be.

There's no penalty.  Hell, it *barely* affects the game.  Yeah, sure - there are some people that can't or won't account for it for various reasons.  At the end of the day, the only question is can you progress. Obviously, yes.

The thing that hoses the gameplay far worse is jitter.  There's no predicting it.  There's no reacting to it.  It definitely exists today and it does cause wipes.  All I want is a consistent connection.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/08/13 6:42:59 AM#89
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

You are still not willing to accept a very simple truth - there should be no additional 300ms delay introduced by SE's netcode period.

We are being penalized here, why do we have to relearn the timing to compensate for poor netcode that shouldnt be there to begin with? WoW doesn't have this, Rift doesn't have this, Diablo 3, GW2, NWN, TSW... I don't know of another game that adds such a huge amount of latency into the mix.

the gameplay on the client and server should be in sync as much as possible and only subject to ISP latency, not ISP latency + additional 300ms server check BS.

There's a difference between LATENCY and server timing.  Like I've said before, latency is going to be felt consistently - this position check won't be.

There's no penalty.  Hell, it *barely* affects the game.  Yeah, sure - there are some people that can't or won't account for it for various reasons.  At the end of the day, the only question is can you progress.

Obviously, yes.

What are you going on about? It's there, Yoshi p himself said it, there are videos to prove it, it is there in the accepted bugs section on the site.

What more proof does anyone need than that? Position check will be felt continuously and randomly which is worse than latency checks which you can get used to.

Sure the game is good for those who like it but just blatantly ignoring issues which have been proved by pretty much everything isn't normal. You can love and enjoy the game all you want but the issue is still there. Like i said, it's even worse for people playing from Asia and EU because they have to deal with the latency delay and the positioning check afterwards.

And the combined effect affects the game a lot. Nobody wants an unwanted 1/2 second delay in a game. It's a lot no matter what anyone says or denies.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/08/13 6:46:41 AM#90
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

You are still not willing to accept a very simple truth - there should be no additional 300ms delay introduced by SE's netcode period.

We are being penalized here, why do we have to relearn the timing to compensate for poor netcode that shouldnt be there to begin with? WoW doesn't have this, Rift doesn't have this, Diablo 3, GW2, NWN, TSW... I don't know of another game that adds such a huge amount of latency into the mix.

the gameplay on the client and server should be in sync as much as possible and only subject to ISP latency, not ISP latency + additional 300ms server check BS.

There's a difference between LATENCY and server timing.  Like I've said before, latency is going to be felt consistently - this position check won't be.

There's no penalty.  Hell, it *barely* affects the game.  Yeah, sure - there are some people that can't or won't account for it for various reasons.  At the end of the day, the only question is can you progress.

Obviously, yes.

What are you going on about? It's there, Yoshi p himself said it, there are videos to prove it, it is there in the accepted bugs section on the site.

What more proof does anyone need than that? Position check will be felt continuously and randomly which is worse than latency checks which you can get used to.

Sure the game is good for those who like it but just blatantly ignoring issues which have been proved by pretty much everything isn't normal. You can love and enjoy the game all you want but the issue is still there. Like i said, it's even worse for people playing from Asia and EU and all because they have to deal with the latency delay and the positioning check afterwards.

And the combined effect affects the game a lot. Nobody wants an unwanted 1/2 second delay in a game. It's a lot no matter what anyone says or denies.

I'm not denying it exists, I'm denying that its a problem.

How can a 1/2 second position delay in which 250ms skill delay exists not be a problem? This issue would have been workable had they not hogged all their servers in Canada of all the places..

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/08/13 6:49:24 AM#91
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

You are still not willing to accept a very simple truth - there should be no additional 300ms delay introduced by SE's netcode period.

We are being penalized here, why do we have to relearn the timing to compensate for poor netcode that shouldnt be there to begin with? WoW doesn't have this, Rift doesn't have this, Diablo 3, GW2, NWN, TSW... I don't know of another game that adds such a huge amount of latency into the mix.

the gameplay on the client and server should be in sync as much as possible and only subject to ISP latency, not ISP latency + additional 300ms server check BS.

There's a difference between LATENCY and server timing.  Like I've said before, latency is going to be felt consistently - this position check won't be.

There's no penalty.  Hell, it *barely* affects the game.  Yeah, sure - there are some people that can't or won't account for it for various reasons.  At the end of the day, the only question is can you progress.

Obviously, yes.

What are you going on about? It's there, Yoshi p himself said it, there are videos to prove it, it is there in the accepted bugs section on the site.

What more proof does anyone need than that? Position check will be felt continuously and randomly which is worse than latency checks which you can get used to.

Sure the game is good for those who like it but just blatantly ignoring issues which have been proved by pretty much everything isn't normal. You can love and enjoy the game all you want but the issue is still there. Like i said, it's even worse for people playing from Asia and EU and all because they have to deal with the latency delay and the positioning check afterwards.

And the combined effect affects the game a lot. Nobody wants an unwanted 1/2 second delay in a game. It's a lot no matter what anyone says or denies.

I'm not denying it exists, I'm denying that its a problem.

How can a 1/2 second position delay in which 250ms skill delay exists not be a problem? This issue would have been workable had they not hogged all their servers in Canada of all the places..

Easy, you have that much more time to get out of stuff.  There's only ONE skill in the entire game that I noticed is significantly faster than everything else.  That's the gateway mini boss in BCoB Turn 1.  That chain lightning is fast as hell.

There's so much time to get out of everything else, you have a good half second cushion.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/08/13 6:57:25 AM#92
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I love how this thread has devolved into one group of people shouting

"I don't have this problem, so either it doesn't exist or it's your fault!"

and the other group shouting

"Is not!"

The videos pretty well sum it up. I don't see how you can dispute some of those. Particularly the one where the CNJ is in with Titan and gets blown off the side like 2 seconds after the effect goes off.

Surely you can differentiate between a discussion about a 300ms position check and excess lag?

I could emulate the same effects by amping up the graphics, running FRAPS, and downloading something in the background.

There's no issue persay with a 300ms position check.  We know that the SE tests in a clean environment, but they are stuck with the same 300ms position check that we are.  I'm assuming that they account for it when timing skills - maybe I'm putting too much faith into the team, but this seems freaking obvious.  Yes, they have no extra lag on top of that but for the sake of argument think about the following.

Let's say they make the position check 150ms.  Do you really think they wouldn't adjust all timing accordingly to fit at 150ms?  People that lag excessively will *still* have a problem. 

The overseas players should have a data center that's on their continent to at least remove distance from the equation.  We need more instance servers to stop the massive spikes.  Other than that, laggers will be laggers.  I wouldn't expect that to change substantially.

This is just such a convenient excuse.  Yeah, I know people that do lag.  They've admitted it, but they don't blame the game.  They account for it, memorize skill rotations, and react to things faster.  That's what a good player does.  As a healer, it's my job to pick up whatever can't be accounted for.

You are still not willing to accept a very simple truth - there should be no additional 300ms delay introduced by SE's netcode period.

We are being penalized here, why do we have to relearn the timing to compensate for poor netcode that shouldnt be there to begin with? WoW doesn't have this, Rift doesn't have this, Diablo 3, GW2, NWN, TSW... I don't know of another game that adds such a huge amount of latency into the mix.

the gameplay on the client and server should be in sync as much as possible and only subject to ISP latency, not ISP latency + additional 300ms server check BS.

There's a difference between LATENCY and server timing.  Like I've said before, latency is going to be felt consistently - this position check won't be.

There's no penalty.  Hell, it *barely* affects the game.  Yeah, sure - there are some people that can't or won't account for it for various reasons.  At the end of the day, the only question is can you progress.

Obviously, yes.

What are you going on about? It's there, Yoshi p himself said it, there are videos to prove it, it is there in the accepted bugs section on the site.

What more proof does anyone need than that? Position check will be felt continuously and randomly which is worse than latency checks which you can get used to.

Sure the game is good for those who like it but just blatantly ignoring issues which have been proved by pretty much everything isn't normal. You can love and enjoy the game all you want but the issue is still there. Like i said, it's even worse for people playing from Asia and EU and all because they have to deal with the latency delay and the positioning check afterwards.

And the combined effect affects the game a lot. Nobody wants an unwanted 1/2 second delay in a game. It's a lot no matter what anyone says or denies.

I'm not denying it exists, I'm denying that its a problem.

How can a 1/2 second position delay in which 250ms skill delay exists not be a problem? This issue would have been workable had they not hogged all their servers in Canada of all the places..

Easy, you have that much more time to get out of stuff.  There's only ONE skill in the entire game that I noticed is significantly faster than everything else.  That's the gateway mini boss in BCoB Turn 1.  That chain lightning is fast as hell.

There's so much time to get out of everything else, you have a good half second cushion.

When i (and i would guess many others) play, i don't like running out stopping everything i am doing to get out of the red circle because they screwed it up. I (and again many others) like to use the AoEs efficiently and move out after completing what we are doing but before the channeling ends. And it's not just for FFXIV, it's there in every game. People don't run havoc as soon as they see the channeling. They try to determine the most efficient part of the channeling to process to move out so as to not get hit. Here, you have to just run as soon as you see it and hope that sever times you. It's too much of an immersion breaker.

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/08/13 7:11:49 AM#93
Originally posted by skyline385

When i (and i would guess many others) play, i don't like running out stopping everything i am doing to get out of the red circle because they screwed it up. I (and again many others) like to use the AoEs efficiently and move out after completing what we are doing but before the channeling ends. And it's not just for FFXIV, it's there in every game. People don't run havoc as soon as they see the channeling. They try to determine the most efficient part of the channeling to process to move out so as to not get hit. Here, you have to just run as soon as you see it and hope that sever times you. It's too much of an immersion breaker.

You were too slow.  You don't have to move immediately, but you can't sit on it and expect to hit the last minute slide.  Stop acting like you are doing all of this complex analysis - it's not complicated.  You are vastly overblowing all these processes you go through to dodge a simple AoE.

As a healer, I never have the luxury to see a cast bar.  Perhaps you should consider playing as if you couldn't see it. As for immersion breaking?  You are LOOKING AT A CAST BAR.  How does it get any less immersive than that?

Also, forgot to make this point earlier.  We are talking solely about a position check, but I'm seeing people call it latency.  It's not.  The game isn't a twitch game.  There is minimal lag on skill activation and certainly not much lag on critical silences.  Latency affects all of those.  Position checks do not (unless you manage to slide cast an animation).

  Kajidourden

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 296

10/08/13 8:07:56 AM#94
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by skyline385

When i (and i would guess many others) play, i don't like running out stopping everything i am doing to get out of the red circle because they screwed it up. I (and again many others) like to use the AoEs efficiently and move out after completing what we are doing but before the channeling ends. And it's not just for FFXIV, it's there in every game. People don't run havoc as soon as they see the channeling. They try to determine the most efficient part of the channeling to process to move out so as to not get hit. Here, you have to just run as soon as you see it and hope that sever times you. It's too much of an immersion breaker.

You were too slow.  You don't have to move immediately, but you can't sit on it and expect to hit the last minute slide.  Stop acting like you are doing all of this complex analysis - it's not complicated.  You are vastly overblowing all these processes you go through to dodge a simple AoE.

As a healer, I never have the luxury to see a cast bar.  Perhaps you should consider playing as if you couldn't see it. As for immersion breaking?  You are LOOKING AT A CAST BAR.  How does it get any less immersive than that?

Also, forgot to make this point earlier.  We are talking solely about a position check, but I'm seeing people call it latency.  It's not.  The game isn't a twitch game.  There is minimal lag on skill activation and certainly not much lag on critical silences.  Latency affects all of those.  Position checks do not (unless you manage to slide cast an animation).

^ This.  That strategy is retarded anyway.  Whatever miniscule DPS you're going to do in that extra second or two is not worth the risk...ever.  The exception being a stun or interrupt.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5119

 
OP  10/08/13 8:42:57 AM#95
Originally posted by Alamareth
I'm not denying it exists, I'm denying that its a problem.  Perhaps you haven't caught my insinuation, but I'm saying that you really lobby hard to get this changed - you suck at the game.  Period.  DMKano?  Obviously full on carried in BCoB. 
Now you are just being silly - I play a white mage, obviously full on carried in BCoB... you play a healer as well, so you know how abusurd that is. So please, don't even go there, no need to attack my skill, you are better than that.

I also fully support moving the European data center to...you know, Europe.  I cant stand the server instabilities, there are entirely too many spikes.  At least the latter should be fixed in a week or two with the instance server upgrades, but I haven't heard anything about moving the data center to Europe.  That one baffles me.

Agree 100% - I also question Montreal as a datacenter location - leaves the entire west coast with crappy latency.

 

 

  Kaynos1972

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/04
Posts: 2323

10/08/13 8:50:41 AM#96

300ms is HUGE.  I know i already played a MMO with a 300ms ping and it was VERY noticeable and annoying.  Anything above 100ms is noticeable, 300 ms built-in delay is a joke.

As for the datacenter in Montreal, i'm in Quebec City, 250km away and i was getting hit by lag too, so it's not the latency, it's something internal.

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/08/13 9:14:12 AM#97
Originally posted by Kaynos1972

300ms is HUGE.  I know i already played a MMO with a 300ms ping and it was VERY noticeable and annoying.  Anything above 100ms is noticeable, 300 ms built-in delay is a joke.

As for the datacenter in Montreal, i'm in Quebec City, 250km away and i was getting hit by lag too, so it's not the latency, it's something internal.

For the last time, the 300ms POSITIONAL CHECK is *NOT* the same as 300ms LATENCY.  Good grief, please talk about the correct thing.  I have no clue why Yoshi P ever said this, I'm sure he regrets it now.

My point is that the positional check isn't nearly as big of a problem as the true latency from Europe due to weird data center location.  The position check isn't immersion breaking, it's easily accounted for.

@DMKano,

I stand corrected.  I still don't quite understand your insistence here.  I just don't see the gameplay impact.

It's kind of a quality thing.  Yeah, it's weird to see the jitter when people are on mounts.  However, as compared to the actual real issue of lag spikes and consistent latency from Europe - this just doesn't seem like a big deal.  I'm having a hard time seeing this as anything more than an excuse for a mistake.

I personally like the NA data center in Montreal...

It's about time us Midwesterners get a handy server location.  I'm always dealing with California.

  Kaynos1972

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/04
Posts: 2323

10/08/13 10:30:09 AM#98
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Kaynos1972

300ms is HUGE.  I know i already played a MMO with a 300ms ping and it was VERY noticeable and annoying.  Anything above 100ms is noticeable, 300 ms built-in delay is a joke.

As for the datacenter in Montreal, i'm in Quebec City, 250km away and i was getting hit by lag too, so it's not the latency, it's something internal.

For the last time, the 300ms POSITIONAL CHECK is *NOT* the same as 300ms LATENCY.  Good grief, please talk about the correct thing.  I have no clue why Yoshi P ever said this, I'm sure he regrets it now.

My point is that the positional check isn't nearly as big of a problem as the true latency from Europe due to weird data center location.  The position check isn't immersion breaking, it's easily accounted for.

@DMKano,

I stand corrected.  I still don't quite understand your insistence here.  I just don't see the gameplay impact.

It's kind of a quality thing.  Yeah, it's weird to see the jitter when people are on mounts.  However, as compared to the actual real issue of lag spikes and consistent latency from Europe - this just doesn't seem like a big deal.  I'm having a hard time seeing this as anything more than an excuse for a mistake.

I personally like the NA data center in Montreal...

It's about time us Midwesterners get a handy server location.  I'm always dealing with California.

 

You dont need to get all emotional, i'm no network expert, i dont care how you call it, if there is a delay it doesnt matter if it's due to latency or not, it's still a delay and it's annoying.
  Ikkei

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/10
Posts: 169

11/14/13 6:03:26 AM#99

Currently, this is the biggest problem in FFXIV: ARR. It's the #1 reason making people leave the game, based on what players say on their forum (lack on content is also an issue at this point, but the next content patch is approaching and people are both aware that a new MMO may not have much endgame content, and FF fans seem to like it grindy/repetitive anyway).

There are three threads on their forum trying to get the devs attentions, but so far no response.

>>> Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

>>> .3 Second Positional Update Delay

>>> Letter from the Producer LIVE Part X: Will the netcode issue be honestly addressed?

And as the last one says, "Along with other threads discussing the same issue, [these threads] are totalling more than 150,000 views and 2,000 replies. There is no issue being more discussed on this forum."

Each time they make one of their Video Events (they call them "Letter from the Producer LIVE"), they gather questions from the community. For the next one, scheduled for Nov. 22, the question that is the most "liked" (voted up) is this: "Are you planning to do anything to address the incredible unresponsiveness & discrepancies between what players see on their screens and what actually happens that plagues the entire game? Why is this the only MMO on the market where spells can complete casting while you're on auto-run, and where you can be out of the red zone for an AOE for almost an entire second and still get hit?"

So I think it's pretty clear that there's a really big problem with client/server sync in this game. I know it's the reason why I personally left, and don't plan on coming back as long as the game isn't decently responsive compared to other AAA P2P MMOs.

  Emhster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 913

Played: Shadowbane, WoW, WAR, AOC, Aion, SWTOR, Rift, Tera

11/14/13 6:17:39 AM#100

I was worried when I saw this video: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

 

However it wasn't as bad when I tried it myself.

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