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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Forum » General Discussion » Can Someone Educate Us on Crafting ?

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28 posts found
  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1864

 
OP  6/24/13 10:07:31 PM#1

many crafting questions.......................................

-is crafting deep ?

-how do crafted items compare to dropped items

-is crafting fun ? is it a grind ?

-Can you reverse engineer ?

-Can you discover new recipes ?

-What limitations are there on how many skills you can master ?

-What are the various crafting skills one can master ?

 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2620

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

6/24/13 10:10:58 PM#2
I suspect its very WoW like.  some will like it, some will not.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1125

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

6/24/13 10:30:41 PM#3

 

Crafting was one of the deepest aspects of the original.

You actively worked on making your item as opposed to watching a bar fill up; you used skills while crafting, watched your character work with the tools you had equiped (and on their specific workboards), and actively worked on making it high quality.  It was an issue of meeting quality against durability; if the durability hit zero before you could finish it, the item will break.  If you managed to get the quality high enough before finishing it, it could turn into a HQ status and make the item +1 or some such.

 

In a lot of ways it was a gamble, as you had to make sure it reached 100% complete before durability broke, and options to improve quality costed durability while giving you limited progression to that 100% goal.  Somes skills would even allow you to go almost instantly to 100% but at the cost of having no quality (and thus no chance to get high quality).

 

You also had to pay attention to the item.  If it became too "hot" or too "brittle" you had to perform the correct action to bring it in line again, or risk getting a huge hit to it's durability.

 

The higher the quality item, the more experience you also go towards the profession.  In addition, the more experience reward will be given by a NPC if they are giving you a crafting quest.  They will also give you more items if you bring them higher quality items.

 

You could improve your chances at HQ synthesis by using +1 material and then work on the quality.

 

You could also repair anyone's armor that matched your synthesis (Such as plate being repaired by armorer).  This would usually mean a much cheaper cost for the person wanting the repair, as well as you making a little gil on the side.

 

Aside from that there was materia in game whereby the crafters could slot materia into items.  Only crafters could do this, and it had to be the same item as their profession (in addition to their profession being the same level as the item).  Materia was obtained by basically transmuting it from a soul infused item that you have worked with for some time and could be turned into a random piece of materia and then sold or used.

 

Levequests often gave free materials to craft items for NPCs and then gave more materials to use as a reward.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Kayo83

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/29/13
Posts: 148

6/24/13 10:30:52 PM#4

Well I took Cooking in my short time so im not sure how the crafted gear is against drop/quest gear BUT as far as crafting goes, its definitely "more" than the usual. I dont want to say "deeper" but its more involved. So far all I have done is buy ingredients from the guild vendor and used them for cooking. Some ingredients I was able to make myself but again, it was all made through purchasable items.

 

To craft something you start out with the usual menu, you select what you want to craft, click on the "craft now" button (its called Synthesize in FFXIV) and then a new UI comes up where you can then use your "abilities" to either progress the completion or up the quality of the item. Each time you use an ability it eats up some limited points you get (lets call it Stamina for now) and once those run out you lose the ingridients and fail. So basically you have to balance the "Progression Ability" with the "+Quality ability" and make sure it progresses 100% before you run out of "stamina." It is possible for your abilities to fail, so thats another thing to watch out for.

 

I made a few things of higher quality, I think the most was about +12% but the stats either didnt update, or I did something wrong. They all ended up the same as if I had just progressed without upping the quality at all.  /shrug

 

There is also gear you can equip with stats that (im assuming) increase your chances at progressing or upping the quality.

 

Thats about all there is to it SO FAR. Not sure if there is more down the line, its fully possible, but at level 10ish I doubt I got far into it.

 

EDIT: Also, every time you craft something it uses up some colored crystals that, as far as I know, I got a ton of through questing. So far I used mostly red, but some blue was also required. There was also some way that you can use higher quality ingredients but I never had any to try out to see what it does.

 

I took a few screenshots but I have no idea where they saved, or if its even working ATM.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3821

6/24/13 10:35:19 PM#5
Originally posted by azzamasin
I suspect its very WoW like.  some will like it, some will not.

Its more like vanguards if i had to compare to another mmo crafting where you have to control over the crafting in the process by selecting commands with its own hotbar with skills in them that will determine the quality and durability.

  WKMitchell

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/13
Posts: 70

6/25/13 2:23:49 AM#6

http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=32577

Decent article from Zam about crafting and gathering.

  rhavok

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/08
Posts: 116

6/25/13 4:21:34 AM#7
Originally posted by azzamasin
I suspect its very WoW like.  some will like it, some will not.

It is not WoW-like at all.  I suppose they are similar in that they both have crafting, but that is where the similarities end.  This is an excerpt from an email I sent a friend regarding the game.  Hopefully it sheds a little more light on how it works.

 

When you start making an item it has a durability (around 40 ), progress of 0 out of 100. Each action you perform on the item uses up 10 durability.  At first you only have the option to increase progress at the cost of 10 durability.  If durability reaches zero before progress reaches 100 you fail at crafting the item.

As you level up you open new skills, one of which will restore lost durability.  Every skill besides the basic "increase progress" uses CP (crafting points), so you can't just spam durability increase over and over because it costs a huge amount of CP. An item can also be high quality and they have a high quality bar as well.  At level 3 you get the option to attempt to increase quality level, but it also costs durability. So it becomes a game of "do I want to use durability at a chance to increase quality but risk running out for progress to finish the item?"  To get a jump on quality, you can increase it starting value with using HQ mats that you gathered.  Each action has a chance to fail, even the base "increase progress" is only a 90% chance.  So if you get greedy and try to increase quality and only leave yourself 1 swing at finishing your progress you might fail.  If you fail the item, you lose the crystal involved in making it, and supposedly you can use lose mats too.  I have not lost mats yet, but I have lost a lot of crystals... I am greedy what can I say.

The items you make are the exact items you buy from vendors.  So on one the hand the items are useful and the stuff you make will be needed right away.  And if the item you make turns out to be HQ it is better than the items purchased.  Mobs do not drop items (Although I think dungeon bosses do).  I cannot attest to a Dungeons bosses drops vs crafted items yet.  However, right now, (from my experience) to be the best geared for your level, HQ crafted items are the way to go.  I would like for items crafted to be one of kind and not be able to be purchased from a vendor, perhaps it will be this way and I just haven't gotten there yet though.

The crafting classes are always very dependent one another.  For example, I was making weapons as a blacksmith, but I needed ash lumber for the weapon handles.  I could buy the lumber from the "guild supplier" but that added up over time, plus they don't sell HQ mats.  So I became a botanist and harvest the lumber.  Also, as an armorsmith, I needed a lot of ice crystals to use a catalyst for the items I made (each crafting class needs specific crystals).  However, mining around my level only provides Water, Earth, Fire, and Lightning. I had to pick up botany to be able to harvest ice crystals.  Whether this dependence is good or bad is preference based I guess.  It definitely wouldn't hurt to have a friend covering your complimenting crafting class because it can turn into a huge project. I think I have ended up with every crafting/gathering class to support Armorsmithing so I can be completely independent.  It is by far the most interesting/detailed/quirky crafting and gathering system I have ever played. 

 

  rhavok

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/08
Posts: 116

6/25/13 4:26:06 AM#8
Originally posted by Kayo83

There was also some way that you can use higher quality ingredients but I never had any to try out to see what it does.

Using HQ ingredients gives your HQ bar a head start when you start the item synthesis, making it much easier to craft an HQ item.  Using all HQ items makes it much easier to obtain an HQ item, although you still need about three successful "increase quality" turns to make out the bar.  As an Armorsmith I have had a few items with a 100% HQ bar thanks to HQ ingredients.

  Benedikt

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Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1289

We live for The One, we die for The One.

6/25/13 5:15:28 AM#9
Originally posted by rhavok
Originally posted by azzamasin
I suspect its very WoW like.  some will like it, some will not.

It is not WoW-like at all.  I suppose they are similar in that they both have crafting, but that is where the similarities end.  This is an excerpt from an email I sent a friend regarding the game.  Hopefully it sheds a little more light on how it works.

 

When you start making an item it has a durability (around 40 ), progress of 0 out of 100. Each action you perform on the item uses up 10 durability.  At first you only have the option to increase progress at the cost of 10 durability.  If durability reaches zero before progress reaches 100 you fail at crafting the item.

actually durability is based on item, 40 is usual for low level crafted mats, 60 for low level end product (weapon, armor etc), i did encountered items with dura 70 (i suspect end products have +10 dura each tier, but it is just my guess)

As you level up you open new skills, one of which will restore lost durability.  Every skill besides the basic "increase progress" uses CP (crafting points), so you can't just spam durability increase over and over because it costs a huge amount of CP. An item can also be high quality and they have a high quality bar as well.  At level 3 you get the option to attempt to increase quality level, but it also costs durability. So it becomes a game of "do I want to use durability at a chance to increase quality but risk running out for progress to finish the item?"  To get a jump on quality, you can increase it starting value with using HQ mats that you gathered.  Each action has a chance to fail, even the base "increase progress" is only a 90% chance.  So if you get greedy and try to increase quality and only leave yourself 1 swing at finishing your progress you might fail.  If you fail the item, you lose the crystal involved in making it, and supposedly you can use lose mats too.  I have not lost mats yet, but I have lost a lot of crystals... I am greedy what can I say.

you actually (no surprise) are constantly getting new abilities, like with combat class - i got e.g. ability to increase success for next 5 steps by 10 or 20% (tooltip of ability said 20, tooltip of buff icon 10), or ability to gain bonus to control with every successful increase in quality

The items you make are the exact items you buy from vendors.  So on one the hand the items are useful and the stuff you make will be needed right away.  And if the item you make turns out to be HQ it is better than the items purchased.  Mobs do not drop items (Although I think dungeon bosses do).  I cannot attest to a Dungeons bosses drops vs crafted items yet.  However, right now, (from my experience) to be the best geared for your level, HQ crafted items are the way to go.  I would like for items crafted to be one of kind and not be able to be purchased from a vendor, perhaps it will be this way and I just haven't gotten there yet though.

The crafting classes are always very dependent one another.  For example, I was making weapons as a blacksmith, but I needed ash lumber for the weapon handles.  I could buy the lumber from the "guild supplier" but that added up over time, plus they don't sell HQ mats.  So I became a botanist and harvest the lumber.  Also, as an armorsmith, I needed a lot of ice crystals to use a catalyst for the items I made (each crafting class needs specific crystals).  However, mining around my level only provides Water, Earth, Fire, and Lightning. I had to pick up botany to be able to harvest ice crystals.  Whether this dependence is good or bad is preference based I guess.  It definitely wouldn't hurt to have a friend covering your complimenting crafting class because it can turn into a huge project. I think I have ended up with every crafting/gathering class to support Armorsmithing so I can be completely independent.  It is by far the most interesting/detailed/quirky crafting and gathering system I have ever played. 

 

 

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

6/25/13 5:59:13 AM#10

Crafting and gathering are actual classes with skills and abilities. The system is very complex and rewarding as all the best gear comes from crafting (or melding: putting additional attributes into dropped armour).

The crafting mini game lets you choose between risking to get HQ or playing it safe. It's extremely complex and i had 16 different skills on my level 38 alchemist. Plus cross class (yes you can use skills from other crafting classes) skills which can add another 50 or more skills.

Gear has slots that can be filled with all sorts of Materia and only crafters can do that at high levels. The success rates are low but the rewards are very high and double/triple melded gear is extremely rare and valuable.

You can not compare this to any other crafting system out there as its so drastically different and more complex than anything available right now.

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  rhavok

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/08
Posts: 116

6/25/13 6:53:51 AM#11

Thanks Benedict for adding to things I missed.  Yeah I have had a few items with 70 durability.  It takes a little longer to fill up the progress bar initially though, so you need that durability.

The gear you are wearing helps the rate at which the progress bar fills up.  Copper ingots used to take me two hits to fill the bar up, but as my level increased and my crafting gear improved I could finish them in one hit.

Because of that i would take extra time and CP trying to get my quality as high as possible and roll the dice hoping to finish the bar in one progress hit.

Let me add this little bit about gathering to give a greater insight on how the two relate:

When you are gathering and you hit a node, a window will pop up with the various items you can get from the node,  a percentage of success at harvesting the item, and the level of the item.   Undiscovered items in a node are question marks and their percentage is 10% at most.  However you do get skills to increase your success rate, I have one that costs 300 gathering points (of my 415 GP) but it increases success rate by 50%.

The discovered item percentage is based on your level, and the items level.  It is then modified by the stats on your gear.  There are special stats just for gathering (+gathering and +perception).  To top it off, some nodes will have bonuses attached to them, for example one node might be "+10% harvest chance if gathering >= 75.  

Lastly you have a chance to get High Quality mats from nodes.  The highest I have seen is 15% (it is based on perception).  You get about 5 swings on a node. So if you are shooting for a High Quality item you have the best shot at crafting it by starting out with High Quality materials obtained from gathering.

Like I mentioned earlier, it is very time consuming to be a completely independent crafter and rely solely on what you bring in.

As you get higher level and need higher level mats, the mobs around the mats will aggro as to be expected; however gathering classes have no means to attack or defend themselves. At level 10ish they get a stealth ability to sneak by mobs, however they run at 50% speed while stealthed.  In theory it seems it is possible to be solely a crafter and not ever fight a mob.  

 

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1864

 
OP  6/25/13 9:03:54 AM#12

WOW !.

 

Such great information  and what sounds like a great and fun crafting system !  Thank you all for taking the time to educate myself and the other here on this forum.Hope to see you in game(if I can get a beta key).

  rhavok

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/08
Posts: 116

6/25/13 9:33:24 AM#13

It seems that crafting levequests no longer provide the mats to complete the quest now by the way.  They do offer a nice chunk of experience though.  If you turn in an HQ item for the levequest you get an exp/gil bonus as well.

Also if you are trying to level, it is very worthwhile to attempt to get the item quality as high as possible.  The exp gains are tremendous even with only a few percentage in the quality bar.  I recall one item rewarded around 500 exp crafted with no quality points, and over 1000 with about 15% in quality.

It can get tedious though, so if you are just making ingots it can be tempting to just hit the progress button and knock them out in one round.

  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

6/25/13 9:54:31 AM#14

Crafting is awesome, I loved it.

 

I leveled up leatherworking to 28 in phase 2, and in phase 3 so far I have 19 armorsmithing. Since they added materia and the ability to meld materia to gear this test I tried to power level it out to 19.

Crafting is amazing. It's so very deep. You will find yourself needed materials from other crafting classes, which will cause you to level them up yourself or ask around for materials that you can't find in shops. (I did this several times and met some other nice people who really enjoyed the system).

You almost HAVE to level up a DoH class with your crafting class. I started mining for armorsmithing and quickly found that I not only used up all of the ore I mined personally, I needed to switch to my bottany axe and cut on some trees for ice shards!

And once you do get the materials you are now faced with decisions and strategies involving your cp, control, and craftsmanship. Do I put my gear toward the control? Do I just try for completion and worry about craftsmanship? Do I use food to bolster my CP or other skills? Which of these should I get materia to boost the stat in my gear?

Then you come to the actual crafting: "Oh many this has 70 durability, but the difficulty is so high that I only gain 14 completion points per normal synth... should I try rapid even though it only has 50% success? But if I add quality to the synth I get more exp. Since I'm doing a leve if I HQ it I get a 300% reward which will level me up. Oh man down to 20 durability do I use my last bit of CP to return durability or should I go for the quality and then rapid and get the best chance at HQ...!? The condition is excellent on the item...so if I go for quality I'll get a big boost if I succeed... AWESOME GOT IT... HQ!!!!!!!!! HQQQQQ HQQQQQQQQQ AHHHHHHHHHHHH I'M THE BESTTTT"

^ this this this this this this this

Crafting in this game rocks.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1864

 
OP  6/25/13 10:05:28 AM#15
I'm surprised this game has been kept such a secret.
  olepi

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 970

6/25/13 10:07:49 AM#16

This sounds like Vanguard's crafting, where you have to be ready to respond to things that happen during the crafting process.

To make crafting really work in a game, the best items have to come from crafting. If dropped items equal or exceed what can be crafted, then crafting is not going to work. How does FF14 do in this regard?

------------
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  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

6/25/13 10:12:00 AM#17
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by azzamasin
I suspect its very WoW like.  some will like it, some will not.

Its more like vanguards if i had to compare to another mmo crafting where you have to control over the crafting in the process by selecting commands with its own hotbar with skills in them that will determine the quality and durability.

It is like Vanguard in a lot of ways.

Each gathering class is its own class, each crafting profession is its own class.

You level them all separately.

You even get crafting and gathering levequests to help you level your crafts.

Crafting and gathering have their own gear sets too.

You use abilities to increase an items quality, recovery durability, etc.

I only have a little bit of experience with hit in the last weekend beta, but it seems a little more "light" than Vanguard, yet far, far more complex than your typical WoW/Rift/etc. crafting.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

6/25/13 10:15:51 AM#18
Originally posted by olepi

This sounds like Vanguard's crafting, where you have to be ready to respond to things that happen during the crafting process.

To make crafting really work in a game, the best items have to come from crafting. If dropped items equal or exceed what can be crafted, then crafting is not going to work. How does FF14 do in this regard?

Crafting is the only way to create materia which is then slotted into "high end" gear - and only by a crafter of sufficient skill for the item type.

So for a piece of heavy armor, an armorsmith can turn gear into materia and then only an armorsmith can socket that materia into another piece of heavy armor with the materia slots.

So it's kind of like Jewelcrafting in WoW, but each profession can only gem into slots of their own type.

So I think the best drops have their own stats, and they drop with empty materia slots.

I know items with materia slots have an XP bar of their own or something like that, and when you max it out you can then convert the item into materia.

Items with materia slots are craftable.

So there is going to be a pretty decent amount of item turnover to stimulate the crafting economy.

At least on paper.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8525

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6/25/13 10:22:43 AM#19
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by azzamasin
I suspect its very WoW like.  some will like it, some will not.

Its more like vanguards if i had to compare to another mmo crafting where you have to control over the crafting in the process by selecting commands with its own hotbar with skills in them that will determine the quality and durability.

Thats my favorite crafting... even more then in EQ2, because the actions in Vanguard where tactical and not time based as in EQ2.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
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  VikingGamer

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Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1219

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6/25/13 10:45:41 AM#20

it is worth pointing out if you didn't already pick up on it that there is no limit on how many crafting classes you can get into. Just like the combat classes, you can do them all. You just have to level them separately. And as taus pointed out, doing so has the advantage, like the combat classes, of giving you access to cross class skills.

I also understand, and someone might correct me if I am wrong, I don't think HQ items drop from mobs. At least not as you are leveling. So the only way to get high quality items is by crafting. End game items I don't know about. I have heard both ways on that. But in order to be able to fully meld your endgame items you will need a supply of materia and the only way to get that is by people using items and breaking them down when they are fully spirit bonded. So there should always be a health market for newly crafted items if only for potential materia.

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