Firstly I have to say I love LoL. It's fast paced, deeply strategic, offers great team based PvP action and is remarkably balanced for such a young game. That it's completely free is icing on the cake (not to mention remarkable). I would happily pay money for a game of this quality.

But it's not an MMO. It's an RTS with a few persistent RPG elements. There is no persistent world, no persistent avatar to identify with and the entire game is small, instances of localized combat. Sure you have to level up, but the only element vaguely MMO related that LoL has which Warcraft 3 doesn't have is the talent trees. (I guess you could stretch it and say the Runes are vaguely MMO related) All of the MMO elements are functionally just ways to slightly customise your playstyle.

I know there's often conjecture about what an MMO needs to consist of to be classified as an MMO, but I think LoL fails on most of the key indicators.

Originally posted by Amarok44

Firstly I have to say I love LoL. It's fast paced, deeply strategic, offers great team based PvP action and is remarkably balanced for such a young game. That it's completely free is icing on the cake (not to mention remarkable). I would happily pay money for a game of this quality.

But it's not an MMO. It's an RTS with a few persistent RPG elements. There is no persistent world, no persistent avatar to identify with and the entire game is small, instances of localized combat. Sure you have to level up, but the only element vaguely MMO related that LoL has which Warcraft 3 doesn't have is the talent trees. (I guess you could stretch it and say the Runes are vaguely MMO related) All of the MMO elements are functionally just ways to slightly customise your playstyle.

I know there's often conjecture about what an MMO needs to consist of to be classified as an MMO, but I think LoL fails on most of the key indicators.

 League is not an RTS. In most RTS you are the commander and you build structures to churn out troops that you can control. I have yet to play an RTS that is 5v5, where you control a single character (sounds like an rpg) and roam the map killing mobs, players, and structures. Maybe one the reasons LoL doesnt feel like your standard MMORPG PvP game is due to LoL actually having PvP objectives.

MMO stands for massive multiplayer online, so I guess it all depends on what you would consider massive. Games are usually only 5v5, but there are probably thousands of people logged in and playing at any given time. I can find a game at any time of the day. I used to play guild wars and when you are playing in RA or TA its actually smaller than playing in a LoL arena.

 If LoL fails on what you consider key indicators than so do games like Guild Wars, which consist mainly of instances. I dont consider LoL an open world MMORPG, which is what you seem to be comparing it to....

It's a strategy game, that is played in real time (not turn based). It may not be an RTS in the form that we're comfortable with (no force groups, building creation etc) but at least it gets the key indicators right. On a side note Herzog Zwei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei) is an example of an RTS in which the player only controls a single unit.

In reality it's part of a new genre of game, a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) spawned by the War 3 Mod DOTA that I'm sure we're all familiar with. It needs a new genre because in you're correct in essense, it doesn't fall into the standard definition of any of the current game genres (including RTS).

Every description of an MMO that I've ever read states that a perisitent world is a key feature of any game to be defined as an MMO. It's why DDO is an MMO but Diablo 2 isn't. It's why Guild Wars (although I haven't played Guild Wars, I understand it's set up much the same as DDO) is an MMO but Borderlands isn't. LoL follows much the same pattern as D2 and BL in that the ONLY areas people can play in are instances, while in DDO there are persistent, communal areas, just not very many of them. The only areas players can convene together communaly are in chat rooms, and if that's all it takes for a game to fall into the genre than Warcraft 3 should also get a forum on this board.

Originally posted by Amarok44

It's a strategy game, that is played in real time (not turn based). It may not be an RTS in the form that we're comfortable with (no force groups, building creation etc) but at least it gets the key indicators right. On a side note Herzog Zwei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei) is an example of an RTS in which the player only controls a single unit.

In reality it's part of a new genre of game, a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) spawned by the War 3 Mod DOTA that I'm sure we're all familiar with. It needs a new genre because in you're correct in essense, it doesn't fall into the standard definition of any of the current game genres (including RTS).

Every description of an MMO that I've ever read states that a perisitent world is a key feature of any game to be defined as an MMO. It's why DDO is an MMO but Diablo 2 isn't. It's why Guild Wars (although I haven't played Guild Wars, I understand it's set up much the same as DDO) is an MMO but Borderlands isn't. LoL follows much the same pattern as D2 and BL in that the ONLY areas people can play in are instances, while in DDO there are persistent, communal areas, just not very many of them. The only areas players can convene together communaly are in chat rooms, and if that's all it takes for a game to fall into the genre than Warcraft 3 should also get a forum on this board.

 In Herzog Zwei, you actually can control your troops as well as you build them. Herzog Zwei is an RTS. League of Legends is more like a roleplaying game. You control 1 single character. You kills mobs for experience. You level up. You use abilities or cast spells. You do not control mobs of minions. You do not build structures which create minions. Yes, this game has a strategy element to it, but all games have a strategy element to them.

 There are many MMO's that do not have a persistent world. You could look at this game as being more similar to Guild Wars and less similar to Command and Conquer. In Guild Wars, if you create a PvP character its life consists of nothing but instanced arena combat. Sounds familiar. Thos MOBA shit is just trying to tack another acronym onto a genre full of acronyms...

Originally posted by Amarok44

But it's not an MMO. It's an RTS with a few persistent RPG elements.

Did the devs ever call it an MMO?

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by Amarok44

It's a strategy game, that is played in real time (not turn based). It may not be an RTS in the form that we're comfortable with (no force groups, building creation etc) but at least it gets the key indicators right. On a side note Herzog Zwei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei) is an example of an RTS in which the player only controls a single unit.

In reality it's part of a new genre of game, a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) spawned by the War 3 Mod DOTA that I'm sure we're all familiar with. It needs a new genre because in you're correct in essense, it doesn't fall into the standard definition of any of the current game genres (including RTS).

Every description of an MMO that I've ever read states that a perisitent world is a key feature of any game to be defined as an MMO. It's why DDO is an MMO but Diablo 2 isn't. It's why Guild Wars (although I haven't played Guild Wars, I understand it's set up much the same as DDO) is an MMO but Borderlands isn't. LoL follows much the same pattern as D2 and BL in that the ONLY areas people can play in are instances, while in DDO there are persistent, communal areas, just not very many of them. The only areas players can convene together communaly are in chat rooms, and if that's all it takes for a game to fall into the genre than Warcraft 3 should also get a forum on this board.

 

 In Herzog Zwei, you actually can control your troops as well as you build them. Herzog Zwei is an RTS. League of Legends is more like a roleplaying game. You control 1 single character. You kills mobs for experience. You level up. You use abilities or cast spells. You do not control mobs of minions. You do not build structures which create minions. Yes, this game has a strategy element to it, but all games have a strategy element to them.

 There are many MMO's that do not have a persistent world. You could look at this game as being more similar to Guild Wars and less similar to Command and Conquer. In Guild Wars, if you create a PvP character its life consists of nothing but instanced arena combat. Sounds familiar. Thos MOBA shit is just trying to tack another acronym onto a genre full of acronyms...

Not really trying to prove LoL is an RTS (I've rethought my position since the OP, though I still think it's closer to an RTS than an MMO) more that it's not an MMO.  I also disagree that MOBA is an acronym for the sake of an acronym. The amount of difficulty we're having forcing it into one of the existing genres suggests that games of this type deserve their own genre.

I haven't played Guild Wars, but if all it consists off is a chat room where you organise to do instances together, than it doesn't qualify as an MMO either. Online RPG yes, MMO no.

Is the following correct? (taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_wars)

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Environment

The Guild Wars universe consists of persistent staging zones known as towns and outposts. These areas normally contain Non-player characters that provide services such as merchandising or storage. Other NPC's provide quests and present rewards to its adventurers. These areas are also used when forming groups of people to go out into the world and play cooperatively. Players that venture out from the staging area and into an explorable area are then able to use their weapons and skills to defeat monsters and interact with other objects in the game. As players progress through the game, they gain access to additional staging zones. Players can then transport their characters instantly from one staging area to another using a process commonly referred to in-game as 'map traveling'.

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Guild Wars sounds similar to DDO, with the added caveat of it having a PvP only option. GW sounds like it skirts on the outermost edge of the genre (and I'd be surprised if we saw it classed as such if it didn't have the persistent world elements) but I think you'll have trouble finding MMO's that have no persistent world at all.

Can Diablo 2 and Borderlands be classed as MMOs. They can both be played online in instances. Their worlds are certainly far more "massive" than LoLs world.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Amarok44

But it's not an MMO. It's an RTS with a few persistent RPG elements.

 

Did the devs ever call it an MMO?

No. They have called it a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena). This site has classified it as such though.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm

 It's an MMO, just not an MMORPG.  And yes, it is awesome.

I play this. Definitely not a mmo. A very good game however.

Def. not a mmo, if this is considere a mmo then COD,Cs,BF,Unreal,1,2,3 are all mmo's.

It is RTS, like alot 2008+ rts games there is no building, just a command of either

A unit or units.. 

Its fun, just dont belong on this site.

U shud earlier compare it to Battlefield ;/...and yes it's an MMO because there is NO singleplayer...

Originally posted by Gorogh

and yes it's an MMO because there is NO singleplayer...

Rubbish. I can load up a practice game with bots and play solo. Sure the game experience turns from amazing to snooze inducing but it's a valid way of playing the game. I do so regularly to try out how certain champs perform in the jungle at early levels.

Being multiplayer only doesn't automatically qualify a game as an MMO either.

MMO would imply that there's 100s of people around you. not that you're starting a gamespy server and letting your friends join.

Can we please define the terms of a MMO so we can stop posting games like this on MMORPG.com?

I'm playing this and LOVING it! It has excelent team PvP and many champions to chose from so you will never be bored, but I don't think this is a MMO, no persisten world, and there are only 10 players at a time in a match, similiar to Diablo, you create rooms to play, but it still does have some RPG elements in it.

Originally posted by Focus*Bankai
if you guys like LoL u would love heroes of newerth. it has great graphics even, not like the cartoon like graphics of LoL

Uh oh, fanboi alert.

The HoN v LoL argument is very old. They're different games in the same genre. Believe it or not, games are about more than just graphics.

I´m just wondering why its so important to discuss whether its a mmo or not -.- its a fun game! :)

 its a really fun game but it isn't an mmo. It is on the other hand an online game so it technically belongs on this site.

The definition I found for MMO is, "A massively multiplayer online game. A computer game in which a large number of players can simultaneously interact in a persistent world."

By this definition, LOL is not an MMO.  This doesn't mean it's the absolute correct definition, but it does make sense to me.  I could always fire up a game of CIV4 with a few of my friends, but that doesn't mean it's an MMO.  So, does it mean LOL is an MMO b/c they "fire up" the game for us?

I will take the side of the people saying this is NOT an MMO, but it's a fun game none-the-less.

P.S.  There are many examples...but, have you ever seen Diablo listed as an MMO?  Is it listed in the game list on this site?  Absolutely not.  However, I'd categorize it as more of an MMO than LOL.

 While an enjoyable game I don't classify it as an MMO.

I am bad at acronyms but it is a Fun Multi-Player Online Only Experience with Character Building Elements.

a FMPOOECBE.

/yay a FMPOOECBE! finally! been waiting for one of those!

(It really is a fun game, even if it really doesn't fit on MMORPG.com)

Originally posted by t0nyd

MMO stands for massive multiplayer online, so I guess it all depends on what you would consider massive. Games are usually only 5v5, but there are probably thousands of people logged in and playing at any given time. I can find a game at any time of the day. I used to play guild wars and when you are playing in RA or TA its actually smaller than playing in a LoL arena.

 

Well by that definition the following games are MMO'S as well:

Supreme commander 1 & 2 [i regually play on maps with 7 others  ]

Guildwars [the devs of guildwars also agree its not a MMO]

All Alien v Predator games.

Unreal Tournament.

Counterstrike.

And so on.....

To correct your definition i shall say that if this example of yours i highlighted was to become a true mmo those "thousands of people" as you put it would all need to be able to interact with there toons in the same maps at the same time. And not just in some chat room.

League of Legends is ok. It would be a much better game if not a good third of it's community would consist of nerd raging kids. As soon as they are not clearly winning (and sometimes way before even that) they start insulting the opponents and their teammates and blaming each other and complaining and what not. It's horrible. I had people in that game who insulted their teammembers less than 5 seconds after the game started. Sure, there is a block list, but I'd prefer any gm or similiarto sometimes warn or temporarily (or permanently) ban people for beeing so offensive.

Also the matchmaking process, where the program tries to put people against each other in such a way that the teams are fair, seems flawed at times. Like yesterday, I played a round of LoL. I'm lvl 20 in that game, and was put up against a premade team of lvl 30s meaning they knew each other, probably beeing in ts/vent/mumble/skype or something, have a strategy involving champ selection and so on) while I never saw my teammates before. And from the first minute on, two guys in my team started insulting everyone else: opponents, teammates, whatever. Then I noticed they knew each other too, so the game obviously thought "if you have two people in your team that know each other, I can let you fight against a premade team as well". Yeah that worked... not. Especially when I had to put those two guys on my ignore list for the constant insults (and they were bad players too).

Or like, when you are new to the game, the matchmaker tries to put you in a team with other newbies against an opposing team of newbies. And what will happen? Right, people will insult each other as newbies in the game. /facepalm

So the game is free. It has a cash shop, but none of the cash shop items has a direct impact no the combat, and everything (apart from some stuff like skins) can be optained by playing at reasonable pace.

Yeah the game is fun, despite it having only two maps (one for 5vs5 and one for 3vs3) matches. But the community is horrible, one of the worst I have ever seen. The european one seems to be a bit less horrible than the US one, but they're both still abyssmal. Sometimes while playing, I lose all urge to try hard to play well, because my insulting teammates simply don't deserve to win. I mean, will I play better for friendly people I like, or for immature raging brats?

There seems to be a similiar game in beta status right now (heroes of newerth or something), I applied to the beta but got no key so far. Oh well...

LoL is fun in small doses as it's impossible to bear the community for a longer time.

Edit:
Oh yeah, and not to mention people who join a game but are afk from start. Yes, they might have computer problems. Or they just let the game run in the background to get some points (even on game loss). Or people who quit the game or go afk as soon as they died a few times. Or the other way round: when you and your team clearly lost, and the opponents are simply teasing you and could wipe you out when they want you, but instead of using the surrender option and move on to the next game, some of your teammates shout "no, we can still win! Oh, I died again... but we can still win!!". T_T

Edit:
And it's no "MMO", as 5vs5 is hardly "massive".

Edit:
Oh, and the game is buggy. Like often the chat doesn't work in the screen where you choose champs and spells and such before the game starts. Which means that you can't ask teammates stuff like "do you tank?" or "are you sure you want to use that spell, it's useless" or "which position on the map you want to start at?" and similiar, all that doesn't work more than half of the time. So you are left to stare at horrible choices and can't do anything about it.
Not to mention the people who look at the champs of their teammates and then leave the game if the team is not made up by the champs they consider to be the best. T_T 
Oh, and not to mention the people who completly don't use any sort of communication during the game. They totally ignore the chat or marks you set on the minimap or whatnot. Those games are horrible too. You see your teammates run intro traps, buy horrible equipment and behave like lemmings, and you can't do anything about that because they ignore the chat, because the boring letters ain't as interesting as the colorful stuff that's going on at the rest of the screen.
And the amount of teamplay is limited as well. For example, you place invisible wards in the game, that reveal nearby territory for you and your teammates for several minutes. They're great, they let you and your team know where the opponent, is preventing them from ganking you, and allowing you to gank them in return or get out of their way or whatever. Those wards cost a tiny amount of gold in the game. Yes, I see maybe once every 20 games or so a player to buy one of them. Why? Because they don't help your char to become the uber-super-slayer, they're no fancy swords or something for your champ, they "just" help your team. And so the people won't spend these lousy tiny amounts of gold for the wards when they could decide games. Teamplay my ass. T_T

If this is here, where is Heroes of Newerth?

They are both based off of Dota.

They both have horrible communitys. (Its the dota community, it has been voted by far the worst.)

The only diffrences are as follows.

1. HoN has no Runes.

2.LoL has many more "Unique" Heroes

3.LoL has an Item shop.

4. In HoN you can deny creatures, to create a more skill based laning phase.

5. HoN does not have super powerful towers so a early rush is possible.

If LoL is here, why isn't HoN?

It is odd that league of legends (and many other games) are listed on this site.  There is a clear debate on many games' mesage boards here about whether they should be listed as MMO's or not...

I believe this site should "define" what it calls an MMORPG and list only those games...  If not, just rename the domain to computergames.com...

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Originally posted by pdavey

It is odd that league of legends (and many other games) are listed on this site.  There is a clear debate on many games' mesage boards here about whether they should be listed as MMO's or not...

 

I believe this site should "define" what it calls an MMORPG and list only those games...  If not, just rename the domain to computergames.com...

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