Originally posted by Yamota

Dumbing down games seems to have become Blizzards core design philosophy and hence why I am not buying their games anymore, so it is not like it was not expected. TL2 seems fine but has an indy feel to it, in the sense that the GFX look cheap and the content not all that great.

What did they dumb down? the skill system? D3s System offers a wider range of specializations and the games inferno mode makes D2 look like a childrens game. 

What makes it so dumbed down? The removal of the cube? Crafting is an evolution of that. The addition of an AH? its an evolution of what we considered trading in D2. 

Diablo 3 is a vastly superior game in all areas. I've yet to see one case be made for this so called dumbing down. When you remove an archaic skill tree system for a system that offer infinit specializations on the fly i dont consider that dumbing down but a true evolution.

you know what's the funny part?

been playing diablo 3, pony level, and all i could think was "damn, this STILL looks better than tw2!"

<3

Originally posted by Thane

you know what's the funny part?

been playing diablo 3, pony level, and all i could think was "damn, this STILL looks better than tw2!"

 

<3

:p trolololol

"TL2 is alot more diablo 2 then diablo 3 will ever be"

That would most likley be because the producers of TL2 need to cash in on the small but vocal group that are dead set in that D2 is the only way to go, while Blizzard have stated several times that they always try to move foreward and not get blinded by nostalgia.

So if it is like you say OP i think they have done what they set out to do.. both of them.

Originally posted by simmihi

From what i've read, D3 MF is different than D2 MF. The more magic find you get in D3, the more blue+ items drop for you. It does not affect the quality of the items dropped.

Well, that sucks. From experimenting with and without mf gear, I thought that this was the case, but I wasn't sure. However, I get plenty of blue drops without mf too.

On the other hand, i find D3 great but i agree that they somehow screwed the itemisation, and that's critical in a loot-centric game. Almost totally random stats is not a good approach. Also, the DPS of the weapon is way way too important, if the DPS is bad, you throw the weapon away, regardless of the stats/mods on it.

 I like D3 too overall. Even though I had a rant about the items, I think the game is overall good.

However, the thing which i totally dislike is that getting what it's supposed to be "good" loot doesnt give me the feeling which D2 gave me when i identified an unique. I understand that legendaries arent supposed to be "the best" items but i expect them to be very very good. From the 6 legendaries which dropped for me, i've saved only one. Also, why not have set items which are not top quality, like those which dropped in normal D2, i don't get this. Also, unfortunately, it's way more efficient to farm gold and buy stuff than to farm stuff. Blizzard did not understand that we, Diablo fans, loved to actually have the loot drop for us. A loot-centric game with badly designed loot leaves a bad taste, even for some of the biggest fans.

I dunno how you managed to find six legendaries. I still haven't found any. I have found several good rares, that is it, and a bunch of really bad ones.

I really dunno what to say though with respect to Blizzard not understanding about half of the attraction being the loot. If they did not get a hunch from all of the people who have played or are still playing D2, then someone messed up big time in their research department!

My question is whether they will change the itemization, fix the bugs, and up drop rates? I know a lot of people believe that the latter is tied to the RMAH, when it releases, but if legendaries stay super rare, maybe people will not really sell the good ones on at all. I know that if the current droprates stay in the game and I found a good legendary, I would keep hold onto it even if it is class specific and couldn't be used by my current main.

ok so i have to say as for me, I did NEVER wanted D3 to be a D2  other wise i would jjsut play D2 :).

As for TL i like how the game looks it's intersting, but for me i think D3 is more for me.

Originally posted by Reskaillev

Originally posted by Darkmax23

Originally posted by Reskaillev

Agree with everything you said...

Ain't it only natural? Most of the team behind D2 went to Torchlight

Blizzard has lost their edge (for some time now) and ppl are only slowly realizing it. The glory days of Blizzard have long since passed....

(having played through normal mode in D3 and playing some hours of TL2 beta)

Yeah i wish i could lose my edge and sell 6.5 million copies of a game lol The game is great...i tell ya the small percentage of people who dislike this game sure likes this website lol

Well... It's mostly the IP that sold the game, not the game itself. They also had a huge marketing campaign which most definitely helped...

But like I stated in my opinion they have lost their edge as D3 rlly is a step backward from D2. I do hope you realize this someday (explanation found in OP)

I should also note that initial sales mostly have no correlation with how great your game actually is.

i agree with the op too , TL2 is more like a D2 than D3 itself.....by miles.....

Originally posted by wasim470

ok so i have to say as for me, I did NEVER wanted D3 to be a D2  other wise i would jjsut play D2 :).

As for TL i like how the game looks it's intersting, but for me i think D3 is more for me.

Same I have played both.... D3 is more for me...

Originally posted by Z3R01

What did they dumb down? the skill system? D3s System offers a wider range of specializations and the games inferno mode makes D2 look like a childrens game. 

What makes it so dumbed down? The removal of the cube? Crafting is an evolution of that. The addition of an AH? its an evolution of what we considered trading in D2. 

Diablo 3 is a vastly superior game in all areas. I've yet to see one case be made for this so called dumbing down. When you remove an archaic skill tree system for a system that offer infinit specializations on the fly i dont consider that dumbing down but a true evolution.

The stats are simplified on the items. Characters don't get benefits from stats that are not "important" to their class. For example, giving a Wizard lots of dex doesn't do that much for him, whereas in the D2 old days, you could have a dex Sorc. Instead, a Wizard only really gets benefits from two stats: intelligence and vitality. You can't choose your stats in D3.

The restrictions on items are easier to get past in D3 since they are mainly class- and level-based rather than both of those plus attribute-based like in D2.

The way the stats on the items work is simplified over D2 and there is less variability from what I have seen. D2, even in the first act, had almost all of the different kinds of item stats available outside of +skills that were too high level for the act. Item types are also simplified: there are no more bombs for example, no more defensive potions like antitoxins, the gem types have gone down, and it seems like there are not as many classes of gear either. I am just comparing D3 to classic D2.

Part of the D2 fun was synergizing skills with attributes and items. The dex Sorceress I mentioned above is a good example of that. You can't plan out your D3 character in that way. All you can really do is synergize your skills.

The death penalty is very light in comparison to D2's and D1's as well.

To comment on Yamota's quip about TL2 feeling indy, a lot of indy supporters like that just fine (like me). I am not putting TL2 in the same league as D3 for graphics quality, pizzazz and the like, but I know from TL1 that Runic will produce an amazingly fun, high quality game for the price they are retailing it at. It is a shame that you gripe about AAA titles all being disappointing, but you won't support a game like Runic's because it ain't AAA. If you dislike TL2 fine, but it shouldn't be because it is an indy game that does not have a Blizzard-style budget....

Originally posted by MurlockDance

Originally posted by Z3R01

What did they dumb down? the skill system? D3s System offers a wider range of specializations and the games inferno mode makes D2 look like a childrens game. 

What makes it so dumbed down? The removal of the cube? Crafting is an evolution of that. The addition of an AH? its an evolution of what we considered trading in D2. 

Diablo 3 is a vastly superior game in all areas. I've yet to see one case be made for this so called dumbing down. When you remove an archaic skill tree system for a system that offer infinit specializations on the fly i dont consider that dumbing down but a true evolution.

The stats are simplified on the items. Characters don't get benefits from stats that are not "important" to their class. For example, giving a Wizard lots of dex doesn't do that much for him, whereas in the D2 old days, you could have a dex Sorc. Instead, a Wizard only really gets benefits from two stats: intelligence and vitality. You can't choose your stats in D3.

The restrictions on items are easier to get past in D3 since they are mainly class- and level-based rather than both of those plus attribute-based like in D2.

The way the stats on the items work is simplified over D2 and there is less variability from what I have seen. D2, even in the first act, had almost all of the different kinds of item stats available outside of +skills that were too high level for the act. Item types are also simplified: there are no more bombs for example, no more defensive potions like antitoxins, the gem types have gone down, and it seems like there are not as many classes of gear either. I am just comparing D3 to classic D2.

Part of the D2 fun was synergizing skills with attributes and items. The dex Sorceress I mentioned above is a good example of that. You can't plan out your D3 character in that way. All you can really do is synergize your skills.

The death penalty is very light in comparison to D2's and D1's as well.

 

To comment on Yamota's quip about TL2 feeling indy, a lot of indy supporters like that just fine (like me). I am not putting TL2 in the same league as D3 for graphics quality, pizzazz and the like, but I know from TL1 that Runic will produce an amazingly fun, high quality game for the price they are retailing it at. It is a shame that you gripe about AAA titles all being disappointing, but you won't support a game like Runic's because it ain't AAA. If you dislike TL2 fine, but it shouldn't be because it is an indy game that does not have a Blizzard-style budget....

Thats not true with your limited stat comment.  My Witch doctor gets pet fighting bonuses from STR as well as increased protection.  Adding more dex increases protection, and i do notice a slightly higher dodge occurance given i just equipped a INT/VIT armor with unnaturally high dex.  WD's primary stat is INT (VIT is for all).

So in your example if you wanted to load up your wizard with dex gear you would dodge a whole lot more, which might be nice but doesnt make sense to build your character that way (unless your getting INT/VIT gear with dex as well)

I agree D3 is more a skill synergy game though, but at least your not locked into a specific build other than inferno on some classes (which is suppose to be fixed soon)

Also the death penalty is very weak, while this is notable in the easier difficulties, they made inferno crazy hard and the death penalty isnt so easy when you die a lot...its still weak though.  They are actually revamping inferno and debating raising repair costs 4x-6x to make up for the easier time i guess.

Basically a lot of what i read about D3 is utter rubbish.

My brother in law who has probably never read a gaming website or magazine ever before just this morning asked me if I'd heard how bad D3 was.  I found it odd that someone who doesn't in any fasion follow games would have heard that. 

what's TL2's endgame?  that's all anyone complains about d3 about really, at least on their forums, that and server issues.

When I look at TL2, it reminds me of Mythos, not going to touch another game made by the same poeple.