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Torchlight Forum » General Discussion » Torchlight II v Diablo III

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106 posts found
  Silok

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 742

9/30/12 3:56:44 PM#81
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by Silok
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

 

4) More D2 like leveling grind (paragon)

Im not sure what you mean here by comparing paragon and D2, maibe im missing something.

Ever tried to reach level 99 in D2?  D3 paragon levels mimic this.  I don't believe TL2 has a long grind to 100

Ha ok i understand now, well TL2 the leveling is fairly quick, well for now im lvl 59 i think but i dont know yet if the remain 41 lvl will be quick.

  SereneBlue

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/30/08
Posts: 32

9/30/12 8:08:33 PM#82

Just wanted to say my BF and I are playing Torchlight 2 and loving it. Of course I knew it would be a good game because these are the same guys that made the FATE games (and I think at least a few also worked on Diablo 2 before that). The pet who fights for you, can send to town with a shopping list, acts as an extra backpack, etc. All of that was first in the FATE games.

 

Other good Diablo 2-esque games:

 

1. Titan Quest

(loved this game! It sucks the Dev was shut down)

2. Both FATE games.

3. Original Torchlight

 

Also looking forward to Path of Exile.

 

I think the market is big enough for many kinds of D2-ish games to survive and thrive. There's going to be something for everybody.

  User Deleted
 
OP  9/30/12 8:31:34 PM#83

I've now got my engineer to 30 and my other classes to 6-8. 

 

The TL2 art style has really grown on me. It is cartoony, but that is neither good or bad in itself, to me. I love how colorful it is compared to D3. Also, I'm really happy that I could start on veteran difficulty and not have to play through almost the exact same maps over and over to get here.

 

When I play my other characters, the randomization really shows another strong point of TL2. I don't feel like I am playing the exact same maps again. The D3 randomization doesn't seem to have so much variation to it. Combine that with being forced to go through all of the difficulty levels every time you play a character and that makes for the perception of a real grind.

 

I love that I don't have to use the AH to progress my character. I understand that a lot of people like the AH and RMAH in D3, so that's a feature that works for them. I don't enjoy buying, trading, or selling in ARPGs. 

 

Finally, I know that a lot people like to show off their progress. You can do that in TL2 if you play with your friends, I guess.  I just play single-player. I have a couple of friends, but our playtimes haven't matched up yet. For me, mmorpgs are ideal for showing off your stuff. In D3, you can show off your progression. If you don't "cheat" then you can just go to the RMAH and buy all your stuff with cash if you want to show off. I don't see how that is much different from cheating. 

 

To each his own. For me the $20 I have spent on TL is well worth it. It's the best value I've gotten from a game in years. I felt a lot of frustration and irritiation from D3 and I don't feel that money $60 (or the time I put into that game waiting for it to become fun for me) was well spent. 

 

EDIT: Difficulty level -- The TL2 difficulty level on veteran seems a little strange to me. I don't know what it is, exactly. My experience is that I am having fun killing mobs and it seems incredibly face roll easy, but if i lose my concentration for just a fraction of a second in a pack of mobs, I could suddenly be dead. I mean, it seems really sudden.

 

In D3, I think I had some time to know if I was going to be dead or not. I could see, "this isn't going well."  In that sense, I like some aspects of D3's difficulty on the last two levels. But like a lot of people, I hated  some of those affixes that were just frustrating. And I hated the days of the kiting barbarian. I guess that stuff has been fixed.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2757

10/01/12 6:32:14 PM#84

Here's how the two games match up:

 

Offline Mode: TL2 only

Closed servers: D3 only

Full Respecs: Feature of D3, TL2 allows it but flags you as a cheater.  Vocal parts of the community won't play with you.

# classes: 5 for D3, 4 for TL2

Combat: D3 in my opinion and it's not close.  Potion spamming is an artifact of the past.

Amount of content: D3 but TL2 has quite a bit

Modability: TL2 only

Single Player Value: TL2 by a lot due to mods and offline mode

Multiplayer Value: D3 due to closed servers

Resistance to hacks: D3 obviously due to only closed servers

Graphics: D3 due to a much better engine and a LOT more polys

PVP: Currently TL2 but that's because it has duels and D3 doesn't.  D3 will deliver arenas in the future though.

Innovation: D3.  Only innovation in TL2 is pet going to town which was in their first game and other games.

Story: D3 by a ton.

Itemization: TL2 but not by a lot.  Both D3 and TL2 dumbed down itemization from D2.  I have no idea why other than to save time and effort.

Group finding for leveling: It's very easy to find groups in D3 with their auto-group finder, but only based on quest.  There is no game naming.

Group finding for anything other than leveling: The ability to name games allows for you to find groups for other things

Chat/Friend functionality: D3 by a ton

Trading: D3 provides it via the gold AH, TL2 by game name I assume.  I like D3's way a lot better

D2-like Exponential Leveling: D3 didn't have this at launch, but they added paragon levels to provide a more D2 like end game level grind.

Custom stat allocation: TL2 only.  D3 missed the boat here.  It's definitely fun to allocate stats where you want to.

D2 like Skill Tree: TL2 comes the closest, although it's no exactly a tree.  While leveling, the TL2 tree is far more fun than getting skills in D3.

End Game Item Finding: No clue.  Haven't gotten there in TL2 yet.  D3 was pretty bad the with how Inferno was designed.

Music: If you're looking for something close to D2's music then TL2 wins hands down.  D3 has some great music at times but a lot of it doesn't fit in the Diablo world.  In the end, I'd probably just listen to D2 music while playing either game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  uofa13l

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 31

10/01/12 7:56:25 PM#85

I could give you a wall of text explaining the nuances of my reasoning but I will keep it simple.

 

I bought Diablo 3 at launch and am struggling to even spend 20 hours in game. I got so bored after the first 8-10 hours in game during the first week that I havent been back and really never plan to. 

 

On the other hand major work and real life things have gotten in the way of the TL2 launch but the 3-5 free days I have had to play it I find myself constantly legitimizing why I can plant that tree in my backyard until tomorrow because I just need another hour or two to do x (augment a weapon, hit next lvl and pump all 5 points into vit for new armor or all 5 into str for new weapon etc).

 

Thats is all I need to say which is better. After a few hours in D3 I can not force myself to log in. After over 20 hours in TL2 I am still making excuses to avoid real life duties.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4759

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

10/06/12 12:49:05 PM#86
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Here's how the two games match up:

 

Offline Mode: TL2 only

Closed servers: D3 only

Full Respecs: Feature of D3, TL2 allows it but flags you as a cheater.  Vocal parts of the community won't play with you.

# classes: 5 for D3, 4 for TL2

Combat: D3 in my opinion and it's not close.  Potion spamming is an artifact of the past.

Amount of content: D3 but TL2 has quite a bit

Modability: TL2 only

Single Player Value: TL2 by a lot due to mods and offline mode

Multiplayer Value: D3 due to closed servers

Resistance to hacks: D3 obviously due to only closed servers

Graphics: D3 due to a much better engine and a LOT more polys

PVP: Currently TL2 but that's because it has duels and D3 doesn't.  D3 will deliver arenas in the future though.

Innovation: D3.  Only innovation in TL2 is pet going to town which was in their first game and other games.

Story: D3 by a ton.

Itemization: TL2 but not by a lot.  Both D3 and TL2 dumbed down itemization from D2.  I have no idea why other than to save time and effort.

Group finding for leveling: It's very easy to find groups in D3 with their auto-group finder, but only based on quest.  There is no game naming.

Group finding for anything other than leveling: The ability to name games allows for you to find groups for other things

Chat/Friend functionality: D3 by a ton

Trading: D3 provides it via the gold AH, TL2 by game name I assume.  I like D3's way a lot better

D2-like Exponential Leveling: D3 didn't have this at launch, but they added paragon levels to provide a more D2 like end game level grind.

Custom stat allocation: TL2 only.  D3 missed the boat here.  It's definitely fun to allocate stats where you want to.

D2 like Skill Tree: TL2 comes the closest, although it's no exactly a tree.  While leveling, the TL2 tree is far more fun than getting skills in D3.

End Game Item Finding: No clue.  Haven't gotten there in TL2 yet.  D3 was pretty bad the with how Inferno was designed.

Music: If you're looking for something close to D2's music then TL2 wins hands down.  D3 has some great music at times but a lot of it doesn't fit in the Diablo world.  In the end, I'd probably just listen to D2 music while playing either game.

 Gameplay: Diablo3 wins hands down. Combat is simply more fun. You feel the impact of combat , the physics. And all the abilities are simply fun and varied.

And I guess that after all , this is what counts.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/06/12 1:07:32 PM#87
Disagree, combat is much better in.torchlight2, loads of impact, mobs flying everywhere, faster paced, not having to teleport back to town every 10 minutes, more mob variety, bigger packs of mobs etc..
  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2757

10/06/12 2:06:39 PM#88

I've now played a good 60 hours or so in TL2.  I'm pretty bored at this point.  I lasted about 150 hours in D3 so hours per dollar actually favor TL2.  But I don't expect to go back to TL2 unless runic actually adds content.  Mods don't interest me and it totally fractures the player base that is already dwindling rapidly, especially at higher levels in elite difficulty.

 

The steam cloud totally borked the save on my first character and he lost 27 levels.  Steam didn't even ask me if I wanted to keep the local save or download the cloud version.  Runic can deal with this to an extent, by at least keeping plenty of backups and asking the player if they want to recover the character with a higher level.  In my case i play on one machine and the problem seemed to occur when I played offline for a long period of time.  It wasn't catastrophic because it was only normal diffiuclty and I had already started a new character on the next difficulty.

 

D3 definitely has better combat and longevity.  TL2 is a great game to have around for when you lose internet. 

  Darkmoth

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 175

10/07/12 9:44:17 AM#89
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I've now played a good 60 hours or so in TL2.  I'm pretty bored at this point.  I lasted about 150 hours in D3 so hours per dollar actually favor TL2.  But I don't expect to go back to TL2 unless runic actually adds content.  Mods don't interest me and it totally fractures the player base that is already dwindling rapidly, especially at higher levels in elite difficulty.

Mods are one of TL2's big selling points. Someone who doesn't like mods probably doesn't "get" TL2. I do appreciate you pointing out your aversion, so people can factor it into your review.

D3 definitely has better combat and longevity.  TL2 is a great game to have around for when you lose internet. 

You are forgetting that many if not most TL2 fans are looking forward to mods. We will be enjoying new classes, spells and gameplay for a long time to come.  To be fair, D3 will probably provide some small number of players a nice chunk of change for grinding Inferno with the same character.

D3 is a better job long term, TL2 is a better game.

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

10/07/12 10:01:10 AM#90
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Disagree, combat is much better in.torchlight2, loads of impact, mobs flying everywhere, faster paced, not having to teleport back to town every 10 minutes, more mob variety, bigger packs of mobs etc..

Depends on class and playstyle, as a embermage my experience was:

- spells have limited range, much shorter than ranged mob attacks, have fun dying from projectiles off the screen (that is probably why most of the mobs just "vanish" at the edge of the screen, becoming inactive and untargetable)

- spells get stopped by chairs, tables, vases, mob ranged attacks dont, it gets quite hilarious in act 2 sand dunes

- player character pathfing and targeting is extremely simplistic, it is nearly impossible to play the game without continuous use of the shift key, otherwise you would spend most of the time running towards a mob instead of attacking it, because it stepped behind a vase momentarily while running towards you

I am not saying that d3 is better, just saying that your mileage may vary :)

Flame on!

:)

  Khaeros

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 463

10/07/12 10:20:16 AM#91

They both have merits, even though both games are bad.

 

If you want something that closely mirrors D2, then TL2 is probably your game.  The problem is that it not only mirrors the good, but also the bad of D2.  D2 was a pretty bad game (if you actually went ahead and played it, instead of just talking about 'how good it was' on MMORPG.com, you'd understand why) and there are some design decisions that should have been left in the past and not brought into new games.  Runic innovates on the formula, but unlike Blizzard, they don't attempt to strike out the bad design already inherent in the formula (not that they were successful - read on).

 

If you want a game that went away from the D2 path, D3 is for you.  Of course, deviating from D2 brings its own set of problems (which aren't just rose-tinted glasses - quite a few 'evolutions' of the concept didn't get realized right in D3).  Blizzard is pretty good at removing the bad from previous iterations (see how WoW was developed and the design decisions that went into vanilla), and they proved it here.  However, they introduced a whole new set of bad that polarized the community (who were admittedly D2 fanboys).  Blizzard innovates like Runic did, but they really need to weigh out each decision before they go full-speed with it.  They learned their mistake - see paragon levels.  Let's hope they continue to get it right.

 

 

 

 

  Stofftier

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/10
Posts: 96

10/07/12 10:20:20 AM#92
I only know that,for 20 bucks torchlight 2 is the best game you can get for that amount of money period.
  Greymantle4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 644

10/07/12 10:23:41 AM#93
Originally posted by Stofftier
I only know that,for 20 bucks torchlight 2 is the best game you can get for that amount of money period.

My vote goes for Terraria. :) Only cost me 4 dollars and I have over 350 hours before I started to burn out.

  Azaqin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 63

10/07/12 10:34:32 AM#94

I gotta say, from a pure cost/benefit analysis, TL2 wins hands down. It is as good a game as D3 is (and D3 is a good game, make no mistake about that), yet it costs 1/3 the price, does not require an always-on connection, and encourages modding. Yes, the graphics are cartoony, but so are WoW's graphics, and people seem to like that game. Yes, local saves mean it will be easy to hack and edit your character, which pretty much makes PvP a ridiculous proposition, but really, who plays point-and-click games for the PvP? If I want some tasty PvP I'm going to load up some GW2 or some FPS title, not a point-and-click loot party. The bottom line is that they are both fun games, they are both good games, but you just get more for TL2's $20 than you do for D3's $60.

 

Personally I have not yet purchased D3, although I have played it quite a bit. I will purchase it when the price inevitably drops, which may take awhile. But then again, I still have like a dozen games on STEAM I bought in the last big sale that I haven't even opened up yet, so I think I can afford to bide my time.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/07/12 10:34:55 AM#95
Yeah terraria is great, you should check out starbound which has some of the terraria devs working on it.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2726

I actually still like MMORPGs

10/07/12 10:37:47 AM#96
Ironically, Torchlight looks more like WoW than D3 does...but the D3 hate parade won't comment on that.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/07/12 10:38:42 AM#97
It's not just the price. Diablo 3 is set up in such a way to encourage players to use the rmah. This is to the detriment of the game and makes it less fun. You either have to use the rmah or grind the same areas over and over and over if you want to progress. Another ball ache with d3 is the amount of time you have to waste going back and forth to sell stuff.

So I disagree its a good game. It's too much driven by the bloody auction house.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2726

I actually still like MMORPGs

10/07/12 10:44:39 AM#98
Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's not just the price. Diablo 3 is set up in such a way to encourage players to use the rmah. This is to the detriment of the game and makes it less fun. You either have to use the rmah or grind the same areas over and over and over if you want to progress. Another ball ache with d3 is the amount of time you have to waste going back and forth to sell stuff.

So I disagree its a good game. It's too much driven by the bloody auction house.

Ya the gear grind was what made D1 and D2 fun. It was exciting getting new loot and hoping for something amazing. The AH did kinda ruin that for me. Even without the real money you still just went and found the item you want and paid gold for it.

  Azaqin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 63

10/07/12 10:53:18 AM#99

I actually found the RMAH to be disappointing. Not disappointing in the aspect that the RMAH wasn't well done, but disappointing in the aspect that Blizz went for such a blatant money-grab in the first place. I actually rolled my eyes at the screen when I first read about it, turned to my friend, and said "Are these the same people who have a problem with gold sellers and account traders?" It seems in the end that Blizz only has a problem with people selling in-game items for real money when they don't get a cut. What's next, a pay-for-gold option in WoW?

 

There's a reason Vegas casinos don't charge you a fee to sit at a poker table. They will be getting a cut out of every pot. If Blizz wanted to institute a RMAH, they should have just made the game F2P. 

  Greymantle4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 644

10/07/12 10:59:39 AM#100
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Yeah terraria is great, you should check out starbound which has some of the terraria devs working on it.

Wow that looks great thanks for the tip. 

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