Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

I like both. I'm glad I have both. I think D3 is better, but D3 does not cost $20.

 

Plus with the improvements made to D3, many of the complaints have been dealt with. So what D3 is now, and what TL2 is now, D3 is better, IMO.

I am having fun when playing torchlight II so its 20 euros well spent. I didn't enjoy d3 during the beta so I never bought it. I felt like a guinea pig and the mad clicking made my hand hurt, which has never happened before.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

The longevity of this game strikes me as very limited.  The fact that it's so easy to hack items to be the best possible pretty much guarantees this.  But I knew that when I bought it.  Single player mods are of no interest to me.  This is a good game to play in between other games and when your online games are offline.

Not that I'm putting down your playstyle, but the two sentences I highlighted are complementary. Part of the reason moddability is a desirable trait is because it increases longevity. With modding, you can look forward to entirely new spell sets, classes, items, dungeons, you name it.

Honestly, I'm not even sure TL2 has uniques. They'd be rather pointless in a game like this.

Remember, even the D3 team admintted: "While many people are playing co-op, it's still a minority of games. Ideally we would like players who want to play solo to be able to solo, and players who want to play co-op to play co-op. At the moment though playing solo is the clear choice"

Well, duh.

Torchlight and Diablo (and Borderlands) share two core mechanics - combat and loot upgrades. That's what these games are about. While there are tertiary mechanics (trading for D3 and modding for TL), the tiny dopamine rush of a new piece of gear is still what differentiates ARPGS from other types of games. The moddable core of TL2 will ensure that that loot rush never has to end or get stale.

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Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

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Originally posted by Thralia can torchlight 2 sell 10m copies ?

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I see...

So we can assume that Justin Bieber is the best thing that ever happened to the music industry surely.

Because I pretty much doubt that any band/musician has the number of his fans and popularity.

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Think you actually meant to say The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Madonna and Elton John are the best things that ever happened to the music industry, since they're the top 5 selling artists of all time.

And you know what? That actually doesn't sound quite so insane, does it?

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

Where did the bad PoE touch you? :)

It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. 

Flame on!

:)

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

Where did the bad PoE touch you? :)

It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. 

Flame on!

:)

It's because POE gets it  more wrong than any of the listed games do.  POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented.  Get the combat right, from the start and then improve the music and art/animations and they may have a chance.

 

People kept hijacking D3 threads claiming POE was the real deal and what D3 should have been.  I've tried it twice on free weekends and quit both times on the first free day.  I WANT a real successor to D2, but it sure as hell isn't POE.  My next hope is on Lineage Eternal as D3 and TL2 aren't the real deal either.

 

Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design.  They also get tons of feedback and are VERY closed to altering the biggest problems.

 

They also haven't defined how their cash shop will work and if they will actually sell full respecs for cash.  If they do only make full respecs available for cash then good luck to them.

 

 

Is Marvel Heroes going to have a better gameplay then TL2 and D3?

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

Where did the bad PoE touch you? :)

It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. 

Flame on!

:)

It's because POE gets it  more wrong than any of the listed games do.  POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented.  Get the combat right, from the start and then improve the music and art/animations and they may have a chance.

 

People kept hijacking D3 threads claiming POE was the real deal and what D3 should have been.  I've tried it twice on free weekends and quit both times on the first free day.  I WANT a real successor to D2, but it sure as hell isn't POE.  My next hope is on Lineage Eternal as D3 and TL2 aren't the real deal either.

 

Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design.  They also get tons of feedback and are VERY closed to altering the biggest problems.

 

They also haven't defined how their cash shop will work and if they will actually sell full respecs for cash.  If they do only make full respecs available for cash then good luck to them.

 

 

Way to use many words and say absolutely nothing.

I will stay at my original "he did not like it", ok? :)

Flame on!

:)

Personally, I'm having more fun with TL2. Which is surprising because I was not a huge fan of the first TL game.

Know what's also cool in tl2, the amount of randomness, I started all 4 classes, every run through of the first couple of hours was completely different.

Other goodies compared to d3 are
Not constantly porting to town to sell stuff
Not needing to use a bloody ah
The faster pace
Being able to start on higher difficulty

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

Where did the bad PoE touch you? :)

It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. 

Flame on!

:)

It's because POE gets it  more wrong than any of the listed games do.  POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented.  Get the combat right, from the start and then improve the music and art/animations and they may have a chance.

 

People kept hijacking D3 threads claiming POE was the real deal and what D3 should have been.  I've tried it twice on free weekends and quit both times on the first free day.  I WANT a real successor to D2, but it sure as hell isn't POE.  My next hope is on Lineage Eternal as D3 and TL2 aren't the real deal either.

 

Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design.  They also get tons of feedback and are VERY closed to altering the biggest problems.

 

They also haven't defined how their cash shop will work and if they will actually sell full respecs for cash.  If they do only make full respecs available for cash then good luck to them.

 

 

Way to use many words and say absolutely nothing.

I will stay at my original "he did not like it", ok? :)

Flame on!

:)

Obversver POV: Obviously, you like it more than he does. His post actually had substance explaining his disdain for the game.  On the other hand, all you have to show are smiley faces for your lack of any thing relevant to say. :)

 

That said, I'm looking forward to POE. Its item customization actually holds more interest  to me than TL2's cookie-cutter formula.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

IMO: 

D2 >>> TQ >>> D3 > POE > TL1 > TL2

While I haven't played D3, and probably never will because I just haven't heard enough to justify 60 dollars, I don't think it's a bad game. I do think, however, that given the targets that each game was trying to reach, that TL2 has already been far more successful than D3 ever will likely be. D3 will still probably sell more copies and have more players, but it will never live up to the hype and expectations put on it by both Blizzard and Diablo fans. There are simply too many problems inherent in the basic design (RMAH being the biggest one) that limit how much devs can actually correct the complaints about the game. TL2, on the other hand, has met every challenge it set out to meet and even beat several of them quite comfortably. It may never be the mainstream success that D3 is, but it doesn't have to be. It set out to be a fast-paced, loot driven hack and slash and it has done so with flying colors. It's not perfect, the artwork is a bit cartoony, there are aspects of the story that are clearly cut and paste from other games, but all the things people are complaining about were never really top priorities of either TL2 or it's predecessor, so it really shouldn't be all that surprising that they are a bit weaker. In the end, I just think that TL2 set more realisitic goals, expecations, and price for the game, and while D3 is still probably a very good game, I just can't see myself justifying the 60 dollars for D3 anytime soon between the decent, but far from groundbreaking, gameplay and even more problematic security issues that Blizzard seems to not care about (telling the customers it's entirely on them to take care of it is not an acceptable answer from a company that could easily spare 1% of the profits and plug most of the holes).

Originally posted by sunshadow21
While I haven't played D3, and probably never will because I just haven't heard enough to justify 60 dollars, I don't think it's a bad game. I do think, however, that given the targets that each game was trying to reach, that TL2 has already been far more successful than D3 ever will likely be. D3 will still probably sell more copies and have more players, but it will never live up to the hype and expectations put on it by both Blizzard and Diablo fans. There are simply too many problems inherent in the basic design (RMAH being the biggest one) that limit how much devs can actually correct the complaints about the game. TL2, on the other hand, has met every challenge it set out to meet and even beat several of them quite comfortably. It may never be the mainstream success that D3 is, but it doesn't have to be. It set out to be a fast-paced, loot driven hack and slash and it has done so with flying colors. It's not perfect, the artwork is a bit cartoony, there are aspects of the story that are clearly cut and paste from other games, but all the things people are complaining about were never really top priorities of either TL2 or it's predecessor, so it really shouldn't be all that surprising that they are a bit weaker. In the end, I just think that TL2 set more realisitic goals, expecations, and price for the game, and while D3 is still probably a very good game, I just can't see myself justifying the 60 dollars for D3 anytime soon between the decent, but far from groundbreaking, gameplay and even more problematic security issues that Blizzard seems to not care about (telling the customers it's entirely on them to take care of it is not an acceptable answer from a company that could easily spare 1% of the profits and plug most of the holes).

Frankly, the only area D3 excels in is story. Which considering it is a H&S isn't saying much. They're both weak overall but D3 is better. Outside of that TL2 has a lot more value and appeal for the long term H&S player.

It's a good game like D3 is a good game but yeah PoE seems the best option. Still, i'll be playing TL2 for atleast a week or so so i've got my $20 worth out of it.

Originally posted by cybersurfr

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

Where did the bad PoE touch you? :)

It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. 

Flame on!

:)

It's because POE gets it  more wrong than any of the listed games do.  POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented.  Get the combat right, from the start and then improve the music and art/animations and they may have a chance.

 

People kept hijacking D3 threads claiming POE was the real deal and what D3 should have been.  I've tried it twice on free weekends and quit both times on the first free day.  I WANT a real successor to D2, but it sure as hell isn't POE.  My next hope is on Lineage Eternal as D3 and TL2 aren't the real deal either.

 

Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design.  They also get tons of feedback and are VERY closed to altering the biggest problems.

 

They also haven't defined how their cash shop will work and if they will actually sell full respecs for cash.  If they do only make full respecs available for cash then good luck to them.

 

 

Way to use many words and say absolutely nothing.

I will stay at my original "he did not like it", ok? :)

Flame on!

:)

Obversver POV: Obviously, you like it more than he does. His post actually had substance explaining his disdain for the game.  On the other hand, all you have to show are smiley faces for your lack of any thing relevant to say. :)

 

That said, I'm looking forward to POE. Its item customization actually holds more interest  to me than TL2's cookie-cutter formula.

Saying "Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design." or "POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented" without explaining "how" and "why" is no different than saying "I dont like it", which is fair enough, but where do you see SUBSTANCE? Tell me, i am flawed as the next guy (if not more :) ).

The only 2 concrete points i saw were "respecs for money", which are unlikely considering they want to have the cash shop a'la TF2 for attire, and respec point items can be grinded and traded for anyways; and "feedback", which is questionable, there were 3 big patches the month i played it, changing even significant mechanics, so while it currently plays as a complete game, they still treat it as a early beta (last time i read they will completely change resist mechanics to go in line with d2 higher difficulty -resist).

Flame on!

:)

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by cybersurfr

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by Purutzil

Path of Exile > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 3

Pretty much backwards in terms of quality and how many people will play each game.  POE is a piece of crap.

 

D2 > D3 > TQ > TL2 > TL1 > POE

Where did the bad PoE touch you? :)

It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. 

Flame on!

:)

It's because POE gets it  more wrong than any of the listed games do.  POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented.  Get the combat right, from the start and then improve the music and art/animations and they may have a chance.

 

People kept hijacking D3 threads claiming POE was the real deal and what D3 should have been.  I've tried it twice on free weekends and quit both times on the first free day.  I WANT a real successor to D2, but it sure as hell isn't POE.  My next hope is on Lineage Eternal as D3 and TL2 aren't the real deal either.

 

Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design.  They also get tons of feedback and are VERY closed to altering the biggest problems.

 

They also haven't defined how their cash shop will work and if they will actually sell full respecs for cash.  If they do only make full respecs available for cash then good luck to them.

 

 

Way to use many words and say absolutely nothing.

I will stay at my original "he did not like it", ok? :)

Flame on!

:)

Obversver POV: Obviously, you like it more than he does. His post actually had substance explaining his disdain for the game.  On the other hand, all you have to show are smiley faces for your lack of any thing relevant to say. :)

 

That said, I'm looking forward to POE. Its item customization actually holds more interest  to me than TL2's cookie-cutter formula.

Saying "Why did they choose a "passive" skill tree and skill gems/runes?  Really, what a horrible design." or "POE literally has every element of the genre wrong or at least VERY poorly implemented" without explaining "how" and "why" is no different than saying "I dont like it", which is fair enough, but where do you see SUBSTANCE? Tell me, i am flawed as the next guy (if not more :) ).

The only 2 concrete points i saw were "respecs for money", which are unlikely considering they want to have the cash shop a'la TF2 for attire, and respec point items can be grinded and traded for anyways; and "feedback", which is questionable, there were 3 big patches the month i played it, changing even significant mechanics, so while it currently plays as a complete game, they still treat it as a early beta (last time i read they will completely change resist mechanics to go in line with d2 higher difficulty -resist).

Flame on!

:)

Albeit poorly written, you finally managed to say something. Good. :)

Unlike you, he actually explained his disdain for the game. You mentioned that "It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. " - Now, this strikes me as odd since TL2 is actually closer in gameplay and setup. Relatively, the customization in POE is more unique when compared to TL2 and D2 which are almost alike.

Originally posted by cybersurfr

Albeit poorly written, you finally managed to say something. Good. :)

Unlike you, he actually explained his disdain for the game. You mentioned that "It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. " - Now, this strikes me as odd since TL2 is actually closer in gameplay and setup. Relatively, the customization in POE is more unique when compared to TL2 and D2 which are almost alike.

Interesting argument all round. It was getting a bit lengthy so didn't post the entire line of posts.

I agree with you that TL2 is closer in gameplay and setup to D2 than D3 is. I have not tried PoE at all, and not really interested in an ARPG MMO, which is why I probably won't try it. I have reasons for that I won't get into here.

Why do I feel TL2 is more similar to D2 than D3 is? The open worldness of the explorable areas, though TL2 is even more open than D2 was in that sense: D2 had smaller areas, but more of them, TL2 fewer areas but larger. Many of D2's play systems are in place that are no longer in D3, like gambling, transmutation of objects, loot that is highly customizable and offers a huge array of different stats, lots of variation in looks of gear, more randomization, etc.

TL2 also has some things in it that D2 didn't have. As I explained before in a different thread, there are designed dungeons or challenges that never existed in D2. You have to solve puzzles or do certain activities in order to beat the board. This is more of a Gauntlet style thing than D2.

Lastly, I find it hard to compare D1 to D2, and TL1 to TL2. TL1 and D1 are more similar to each other, whereas for style of game TL1 and TL2 have a lot of differences.

Originally posted by cybersurfr

Albeit poorly written, you finally managed to say something. Good. :)

Unlike you, he actually explained his disdain for the game. You mentioned that "It just strikes me as odd that you would put D2 first and the game which is arguably closest to it in its gameplay and setup as last. " - Now, this strikes me as odd since TL2 is actually closer in gameplay and setup. Relatively, the customization in POE is more unique when compared to TL2 and D2 which are almost alike.

On the other hand, you said nothing, particularly in which way he EXPLAINED his disdain. I have just seen (understood) him EXPRESS it. Slight difference.

As for the differences, we could be talking about which is where all day, everyone favors different aspects of the games, i was just asking why PoE is last, having nearly identical gameplay aspects to d2 (auras, fhr and lifesteal mechanics in particular), but you can also judge solely on the existence or lack of a skill tree, and then we have a completely different discussion, and it is a fair point, not PoE sucks (why?) , gets it all wrong (what?), horrible design (why?).

Flame on!

:)