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General Discussion Forum » The Pub at MMORPG.COM » Please, tell me why you hate PVP so much. I just don't understand.

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542 posts found
  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 6:26:06 PM#61
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by illorion

 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

You got several issues conflated issues there. There very few PvE games that have any difficulty. The PvE people want those too. There are very few MMOs that aren't just crap right out of the gate PvP or not. It's not all roses for the PvE people like you're implying there.

The issue is that in a massive multiplayer setting... why would a large group of people come together to do anything? It gonna be either to pvp... or to run a dungeon... thats it... you don't get 150 people together to gather mats and build a castle so everyone can just look at it forever... you build it to defend it. So the only purpose of Massive Multiplayer to non PvPers is raids... people to raid and run dungeons with... but if thats the case then why make an MMO... when a lobby game would serve the exact same purpose. 

The idea of an MMO with no PvP is just silly to me... what is the purpose... so you can watch other people play the same game you are?

Maybe you get 150 people together to collect the mats to build a castle and fight a week long battle against a barbarian horde. Maybe then you have the ability to expand your kingdom. Maybe you're all fighting to put your emperor on the throne. There is a lot more possibilities to mass PvE than raids. Or there would be if designers weren't so recti-cranially inverted. Maybe some people enjoy that so much they don't have time for PvP.

Lol well ill admit that does sounds fun... but what do you do when everyone on the server wants their own castle to defend from the barbarian hordes? Start instancing them? Well now its not a MMO anymore... its Guild wars 1. A lobby game.

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  GregorMcgregor

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 177

6/26/13 6:26:36 PM#62

The honest answer for me would simply be... I don't like loosing!

 

I don't like loosing so much I've went through 2 wooden doors (punched), 2 keyboards (punched and thrown) and 4 mice (thrown into wall and in one case.. out of the window 3 floors up)... Can you picture it if I got jumped and killed by 2 or 3 players in PvP? I can't afford a new PC! lol :(

 

The 2nd reason? The Zerg! GW2 with it's culling, along with mass zerging in WvW was just hell. Even without the culling, it's crap! 1 vrs 30 awesomely fair! Yes, yes, you get 30 and do it to them, BUT 3 runs of "you zerg them, they zerg you!" and the nights over!

 

And reason 3, as pointed out, PvP is a companies cheap way of adding content for bored players "Err.. we know you've ran out of dungeons, but here's a BG you can kill each other over & over.. great fun.. right? RIGHT???" Yeah, as much fun as licking the freezer door!

 

So how is it great? Because you get to kill and/or bully other players? Has the world ran out of small animals or something? ;)

No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!


...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16988

6/26/13 6:26:40 PM#63
Originally posted by illorion

 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

but isn't that a separate topic. not pulling the "stick to topic card" (because I think discussions should ebb and flow) but simply saying that that is a completely different side of the issue.

tack on 15 more amazing ffa pvp (or whatever your poison) and that's still not going to convert those who claim they don't like pvp.

  Sinella

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 336

6/26/13 6:26:56 PM#64
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Sinella

I never PvP because I don't like the feeling that I'm causing anger or loss for someone else. I hate to win in a PvP match even more than to lose.

I totally hate forced PvP games, because they attract the biggest a-holes in the gaming world. I don't like to spend my free time with psychopats. I'm not saying all PvPers are like that, most of them not, but some rotten apples can ruin the whole basket.

I get this, I really do. I have those feelings at times too. For lack of better terms it can be awkward. 

 

The are no "Forces PvP games" you are never forced to fight. At the same time griefers should be punished, as long as there is a way to do that, within reason, I really don't have an issue.

 

Killing for the sake of killing with no risk gets old quick for everyone. If that one social path just can't get enough arrest him, and put him on time out. 

There are forced PvP games of course. And its nice you don't have an issue if there is a way to punish griefers, but you asked US why we don't like PvP :) I do have an issue with it even if the griefer is punished. I simply don't want to play in the same gaming environment with that type of players. I don't care if they are punished, jailed, put on time out, whatever. I don't want to play with them. Never, under any circumstances.

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

6/26/13 6:27:05 PM#65

i known a lot of ppl who hate pvp, or pvp'rs, or full loot, or FFA PvP but not instanced, etc.

 

not one of those people who in some measure 'hate pvp' believe that pvp'rs should not have their own game or even their own servers within the game the non-pvp'rs are playing.

 

the folks who are opposed are opposed to nonconsensual pvp. they are not opposed to there being a game (or even servers) with nonconsenual pvp for those who want them.

 

as to why they don't like pvp, for many its bad experiences. for most its just a pain in the @ss, an inconvenience to the gaming experience they are looking for and why they are logging in. for many players i know mmo's give them an outlet to accomplish specific goals and to socialize. i really think that in many ways mmo's are the most expensive chat programs ever created.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Slampig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2378

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/26/13 6:28:26 PM#66
Originally posted by bcbully

It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose.  Is it because -

 

You lose a lot?

You can't get better?

It's scary?

To much adrenalin? 

It makes you angry?

PvP'rs are mean?

 

Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp" 

 

I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works. 

 

Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't like the majority of the PvP community. The smugness and general bad attitude towards other players that don't fall lock-step into line with the "hardcore" turns me off and I enjoy PvP. I don't like being forced to play constantly with dicks though so unfortunately I avoid a lot of PvP in the games I play now...

 

And the fact that you just cannot wrap your head around the fact that someone doesn't like PvP kind of makes my point about the lock-step thing. That's great, you like PvP, why do other people need to justify to you why they do not?

 

And another point, you should read the highlighted sections out loud and listen to how they sound, another point about the "hardcore"...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1310

6/26/13 6:28:33 PM#67
Getting ganked while trying to plant wheat

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

6/26/13 6:28:57 PM#68
nobody that says shadowbane was awful has any right to comment on pvp.
  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2975

6/26/13 6:29:24 PM#69

Time.. I hate wasting time when I wanted to be doing something else. Open world PvP is very random, which can be a good thing given that you have lots of time. If you only a have a couple of hours though and you wanted to get something done but all that happens is you encounter other players constantly which stops you doing what you set out to in the first place... that's when I start to get annoyed with it.

I can deal with item loss, I played AC1 for years before they starting protecting item loss on death. I don't care about losing, I quite enjoy the challenge actually. It really is all about the inconvenience of PvP for me. Sometimes, I like to be in control of what my daily gaming experience is going to be like... that is why I always prefer optional PvP. But I do want that option though.. because sometimes I like a bit of PvP. 

  Slampig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2378

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/26/13 6:33:46 PM#70
Originally posted by evilized
nobody that says shadowbane was awful has any right to comment on pvp.

That can go the opposite way and be all, "Nobody that says Shadowbane was a great game has any right to comment on gaming."

Shadowbane was not the best game to ever slice bread, it was fun though, for the most part.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5178

6/26/13 6:36:20 PM#71
Originally posted by illorion
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by illorion

 

The real issue that has the pvp community upset is that there are literally... thousands of games like that... for PvE'rs that want to look at other players but not have to be inconvieneced by them... enough is enough... how about at least one decent game where open world PvP is at least and option for those us that enjoy... for those of us that need that extra stress to have fun because the games themselves are just really really easy... press 1234 over and over and dont stand in the red stuff... congrats.. here is your epix

You got several issues conflated issues there. There very few PvE games that have any difficulty. The PvE people want those too. There are very few MMOs that aren't just crap right out of the gate PvP or not. It's not all roses for the PvE people like you're implying there.

The issue is that in a massive multiplayer setting... why would a large group of people come together to do anything? It gonna be either to pvp... or to run a dungeon... thats it... you don't get 150 people together to gather mats and build a castle so everyone can just look at it forever... you build it to defend it. So the only purpose of Massive Multiplayer to non PvPers is raids... people to raid and run dungeons with... but if thats the case then why make an MMO... when a lobby game would serve the exact same purpose. 

The idea of an MMO with no PvP is just silly to me... what is the purpose... so you can watch other people play the same game you are?

Maybe you get 150 people together to collect the mats to build a castle and fight a week long battle against a barbarian horde. Maybe then you have the ability to expand your kingdom. Maybe you're all fighting to put your emperor on the throne. There is a lot more possibilities to mass PvE than raids. Or there would be if designers weren't so recti-cranially inverted. Maybe some people enjoy that so much they don't have time for PvP.

Lol well ill admit that does sounds fun... but what do you do when everyone on the server wants their own castle to defend from the barbarian hordes? Start instancing them? Well now its not a MMO anymore... its Guild wars 1. A lobby game.

Don't let 'em. Or better yet make a political system that allows people to overthrow their leaders. Term limits :)

The point is both PvP and PvE both have a lot of room for improvement. The problem isn't PvE people versus PvP people it's  unimaginative games that satisfy neither.

 

Originally posted by Slampig
Originally posted by evilized
nobody that says shadowbane was awful has any right to comment on pvp.

That can go the opposite way and be all, "Nobody that says Shadowbane was a great game has any right to comment on gaming."

Shadowbane was not the best game to ever slice bread, it was fun though, for the most part.

It was both horribly broken and hella fun. You can't say that about many games.

 

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Arakazi

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 829

6/26/13 6:37:25 PM#72

I've done a lot of PvP, still do from time to time but only on EVE and I have had a lot of fun in PvP. However, in saying that a lot of my worse gaming experiences have been in PvP servers and in PvP games. Camping noobs outside the safe zone, corpse camping, hacks in and general asshattery and griefing has all happened to me. I'm not complaining or anything, these things kinda go with the territory on PvP servers.  If that's the only thing I have experienced in pvp I don't think I would much like it either. But my guess is that some people just don't like the hyper competitive nature of PvP.

  Zuvielify

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/11
Posts: 170

6/26/13 6:41:16 PM#73

Here's my issue with PvP:

I will preface by saying I don't have an issue with PvP games, nor do I have an issue with PvE games. I have an issue when a game mixes the two together (basically every MMO). Here are two reasons why:

 

1) Either PvP combat sucks

2) Or PvE combat sucks

 

1) PvP combat sucks because everyone has awesome CC abilities because the game is designed for PvE. Then you're the sad cleric who is stun locked and just waiting to die.

2) PvE combat is gimped and uninteresting because all of the abilities are tuned for PvP. 

 

The only possible way to get this right is to have two completely different sets of abilities for each. That's sorta lame, but some games do it that way. I have not played a game where it has ever worked any other way. I know many of you will disagree, but, in my opinion, you're wrong. 

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7007

 
OP  6/26/13 6:45:08 PM#74
Originally posted by DamonVile

So like every thread so far about pvp this was never about why you don't like pvp this was really about why every mmo should be ffa pvp

We really needed another one for all of you to say the exact same things all over again.

No man. Even if you would like for it to be. There are some great post in this thread.

 

I agree with some, and understand even more. We as a community have been feed shit games that allow griefing with no consequence. This is why most the people in this thread son't like PVP.

 

I don't like "ArrowInYoIBro" either. He's a chump. Such a same the market has been filled with this "carebear no risk pvp." It's nearly poisoned the well.

  illorion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 476

6/26/13 6:45:11 PM#75

Lol well ill admit that does sounds fun... but what do you do when everyone on the server wants their own castle to defend from the barbarian hordes? Start instancing them? Well now its not a MMO anymore... its Guild wars 1. A lobby game.

Don't let 'em. Or better yet make a political system that allows people to overthrow their leaders. Term limits :)

The point is both PvP and PvE both have a lot of room for improvement. The problem isn't PvE people versus PvP people it's  unimaginative games that satisfy neither.

Well that is true... but the fact of the matter is no developed has the resources or the time to release an MMO with enough content and systems in it simlar to that to make the cut. The feature you mentioned, while a fantastic idea, is still just one idea. A very expensive idea at that.

Let me lay out a different scenario for you. Ive been out gathering rare mats all day for my mega sweet armor im working on. Im about to deposit my stuff in my bank but first im checking my map and the perimieter for danger... before i scurry to the bank and start mad clicking to deposit my stuff... meanwhile my heart is racing with anxiety as i see another player approaching me as im racing to get this stuff into my bank... is this guy friendly... or does he want my stuff and my life... all that excitement... all that stress and reward... just with one simple mechanic

"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4705

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

6/26/13 6:47:13 PM#76
Originally posted by bcbully

It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose.  Is it because -

 

You lose a lot?

You can't get better?

It's scary?

To much adrenalin? 

It makes you angry?

PvP'rs are mean?

 

Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp" 

 

I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works. 

 

Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is that not an acceptable answer?  Just because you don't like it?

Seems perfectly acceptable to me.

People like different things. I don't find pvp entertaining, I'm playing a game for entertainment. '

I don't like black licorice, it doesn't taste good to me, I would be eating it for the  flavor.  Just like the pvp entertainment scenario.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7007

 
OP  6/26/13 6:47:36 PM#77
Originally posted by Electro057
Originally posted by illorion
If could put the word "decent" in huge neon letters right now I would. Have you ever actually played MO or Xysom or shadowbane... they are awful... just god awful. Darkfall is a decent game i just dont care too much for the run around in a circle left clicking like a crackhead thing. The combat is meh and the game itself is really buggy and messy...

Nah, I've never played anything in that list but Darkfall and it was sorta a horror show for me of getting hunted by mounted players on day 1...And I just kept dying and getting hunted over and over. And it was sorta like fox hunting, except I was the fox...And I'll admit I gave up after a week, but I had no idea what I was doing and I just kept dying and dying.....

Anyways I get your point, if Darkfall was the best game of the lot then I guess we should see if it's possible to make a good FFA Open World PvP game.

lmfao man you are alright with me.

 

Come play Wushu. If you do, pm me. I think you might enjoy it. It aint polished up like swtor, but it's more than DF:UW. 

 

Thanks for the laugh.

  Arakazi

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 829

6/26/13 6:48:30 PM#78
Originally posted by Zuvielify

Here's my issue with PvP:

I will preface by saying I don't have an issue with PvP games, nor do I have an issue with PvE games. I have an issue when a game mixes the two together (basically every MMO). Here are two reasons why:

 

1) Either PvP combat sucks

2) Or PvE combat sucks

 

1) PvP combat sucks because everyone has awesome CC abilities because the game is designed for PvE. Then you're the sad cleric who is stun locked and just waiting to die.

2) PvE combat is gimped and uninteresting because all of the abilities are tuned for PvP. 

 

The only possible way to get this right is to have two completely different sets of abilities for each. That's sorta lame, but some games do it that way. I have not played a game where it has ever worked any other way. I know many of you will disagree, but, in my opinion, you're wrong. 

 

A lot of games have specific gear for PvP. But I get your point, PVE focused games tend to have poor PvP. There is usually a few classes that get the short end of the stick, usually the healer or support classes, while tank and dps classes seem to do pretty well.

  Kazuhiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/03/07
Posts: 389

6/26/13 6:50:56 PM#79

While I'm an avid pvper, and love pvp focused mmos. I can tell you why I have hated pvp in some mmos.

It's been absolutely horrible pvp gameplay design. Usually this is due to players having godly advantages over others, either through gear progression, levels, or worst of all, cash shop Pay-2-Win elements. These things ruin pvp for almost everyone that would otherwise love it.

Most of the time, these are issues because of a mmo being PVE focused, but with horrid pvp modes/areas tacked on. I'm one to believe a mmo should either be for PVE ONLY, or PVP ONLY. Never both, both just doesn't work worth a damn.

JeroKane: In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.

Myself: Please, stop posting, I can't breath I'm laughing so hard at that statement.

  Divona

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/11
Posts: 164

6/26/13 6:53:14 PM#80

It's like some who like Justin Bieber, and some don't. If Justin Bieber is force upon you who does not like JB, of course you would try to stay away from it.

If I brought an album and that song from Bieber is on there, I would skip. If I can not skip, I would have not brought that album in the first place.

I like PvP in form of first person shooter, or MOBA, or trading card games, chess, all kind of tabletop gaming. Not in MMORPG where there are too many variables to ruin the experience I my pay money for.

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